Tabletop Randomness

[Smoove_B]

With the upcoming holiday season, I'm going to recommend these for your favorite gamer friend (maybe it's you?)

My crowd-funded copy just arrived yesterday and I think it'll be hitting retail soon. The artwork is fantastic and despite coming in a giant box, you can store them in a much smaller container, though I'd probably band them together to reduce risk of the paint rubbing off in storage or transport.

Basically they're themed dungeon doors that you can use for any number of tabletop games.

[Blackhawk]

Oh, those are awesome. I love those types of 'utility' elements in games, although I technically have enough doors, between Monolith's Conan and Sword & Sorcery. I put them on a wishlist, although I can't justify actually buying them when I'm never playing in-person games. At least I've learned that it is the collector's mentality that drives me to want these things, not an actual need. And FOMO.

[Smoove_B]

Amazingly, doors are something I don't have either because i don't have games that include them or when they were available, they were always extra. Once you take them out of the box, their storage footprint really is quite small which was another bonus. I love all the Loke stuff and hadn't seen this mentioned here (that I remember) so yeah, figured I'd share.

[Smoove_B]

Here's another nifty thing that was in my mail bag today - dual-use bases from Wargames Atlantic.

It's a 25mm base that has a normal side and a recessed side. The recessed side can be used for miniatures on a "puddle base" and when you slip that mini into the recessed side, it puts their feet at level they'd be at if they were just glued to a regular base. This stops your miniature from having a "mini on a hill" look if you just glue the puddle base to a regular base. Of course you still need to fill in the recess (or not,no judgements) but this looks to be a faster and easier way to deal with them.



I can't believe no one thought of this before? Oh, and there's also a magnet hole in the center, if you're into that kinda thing.

[Zarathud]

I like getting wooden circle bases from Gale Force 9 in bulk at GenCon every few years. They’re sold by the Chinese food takeout box and take primer beautifully.

[Blackhawk]

Interesting, although it does require that it be a standard size integral base. Not every company does standard sized bases, so some might have to be cut down. I always just cut the mini off of the base and put it on a separate base, usually pinning the feet.

The one basing product I always used to want (and is apparently now available) is a square base designed to hold a round base within it. That was always a problem with bases - one game would call for square bases (especially wargames), while another would call for round. With these, you simply set the round inside the square when you're playing a game that requires them.

[hentzau]

I’ve been converted to transparent bases and I won’t be switching back anytime soon. And I use ultra thin bases, not the thicker plexi bases that folks like Litko sells.

[Blackhawk]

I’ve been converted to transparent bases and I won’t be switching back anytime soon. And I use ultra thin bases, not the thicker plexi bases that folks like Litko sells.

I've been conflicted on this for a while. A well-painted/accessorized base can add a ton to a miniature, enhancing the feel of the character/creature on it. But the clear bases don't ever clash (like having a grassy circle under their feet in the middle of an underground ruin), and they save a ton of time (not to mention all of the space for the huge amount of basing materials I've amassed.)

Luckily, as I'm not actively playing anything right now (or for the past three years), I've been able to put off the dilemma. The ones I have based on transparent bases, though, have been on nice, solid Litko acrylic.

[GreenGoo]

I think it would depend if your miniatures are used to game, or just for display. I like those almost mini-dioramas that some people build into their bases. I just mean texture, grass, stone etc. Obviously not everyone wants to put that level of effort into every single miniature they paint. And if they are being used as game pieces, that changes things, I think.

[hentzau]

I think it would depend if your miniatures are used to game, or just for display. I like those almost mini-dioramas that some people build into their bases. I just mean texture, grass, stone etc. Obviously not everyone wants to put that level of effort into every single miniature they paint. And if they are being used as game pieces, that changes things, I think.

As a tabletop painter, I've always hated doing bases. It was the last thing that I would do on the mini, and was usually pretty slapdash (slop on white glue, dip into flocking, get annoyed when I got some glue over the foot so they now have a grassy foot, etc. The transparent bases were a life saver for me.

I make my own using a 3/4" hole punch and old blister pack that I have sitting around. You would think that flimsy blister pack package wouldn't support a metal mini, but it works.

[GreenGoo]

Yeah, I really have no business commenting on this. I just like how they look when I look at other peoples' work.

[Smoove_B]

You can comment on whatever you like - we're a friendly group over here.

I'm definitely mixed on the issue and I do think some of it is tied to whether or not they're display pieces vs play pieces. I do like adding to bases or using themed bases, but yes it totally annoys me if I'm using something themed for forest / grasslands and the game map is now in a dungeon or a glacier. I have WW2 minis on clear bases and when you put them on a neoprene gaming mat, they look amazing. I have a RL friend that is vehemently against themed bases of any type, always because of how they clash with whatever it is you're playing on.

I guess I'm a solid, "It depends" - I totally see both sides.

[Blackhawk]

/edit - moved this post to the minis thread.

[Blackhawk]

/edit - also moved. If I'm going to discuss lightly, here's fine. If I'm going to deep dive, I'll put it in the topic thread.

[AWS260]

Embracer's tabletop division made more money in the last quarter than their PC & console division. I guess board games really are popular.

[Isgrimnur]

Coop and I at attending BGGCON. The penny arcade guys set up their own convention. GMT seems to be doing well. Kickstarter and Gamefound have no shortage of projects.

Yeah, I’d say they’re popular.

[Smoove_B]

I thought we had a post about Cool Stuff Inc going under, but maybe I'm just delirious. With that, there was an interview article shared today on BGG with the founder about their decision to quit selling board games and only focus on CCGs. He revealed why:

“We were certainly heavily discounting, which some of the manufacturers didn’t like, but things went pretty smooth. I think it was about 2013 that Amazon hired – I don’t know what they call the position – but essentially a product manager for board games, and things started to change for us at that period of time. That year, board games were our largest product line, and they were doing quite well for us. Most games still sold – although there were a lot of games being released, it was still just sort of easy to pick the winners and the losers. And, you know, the market hadn’t really fractured too much. Kickstarter had started, but they were smaller at the time.

“Then there was a combination of factors starting right about that time, where manufacturers publishers really started to take more control of their product lines, we started to see MAPs (Minimum Advertised Price) implemented, some of them stopped selling through distribution, then Kickstarter was becoming more and more of a player, more and more board games were being released. So the the market was becoming more difficult. At the same time, we started getting this pressure from Amazon, and it wasn’t too bad at first. But eventually, we’d put a board game up for just some weird price. Within an hour, Amazon would have the exact same price, with a better shipping option than we can provide.

Additionally:

He said, “Our biggest problem there is that Amazon is able to ship products for so much less than we are, that cost for them is so much less, and they don’t mind taking a loss on a product, you know, to buy market share or whatever the case might be. So, because of that competition, their products get listed first – I mean, you can read the complaint against them just to see all the different tactics that they were using.

“We would put an item on sale – they would match it. And at the time, our free shipping level was at $100. Where, if you weren’t Amazon prime member or you met the minimum purchase, you could get that game shipped for free by Amazon, and didn’t have to bundle it with a bunch of other games like you had to do on our website. We did that to keep our costs down – it’s much better to sell $100 worth of product and ship it for free… it just doesn’t make sense for us to ship one product for free.

“…We just weren’t able to compete. And then they used to have to work through FedEx and UPS, but of course now they have their own transportation and shipping, and so their costs, I’m sure, are even less than they were back in the day. All that competitive advantage made it very, very difficult. Plus on top of that, then you have to pay Amazon fees, which takes a huge chunk of your profit out. So it just wasn’t financially feasible for us to compete with Amazon on their own marketplace.”

Key:

Sunkin added, “I do believe in the in the free market. But I think that there’s also some things that they do, where they target a competitor, and if they lose a few million dollars, they don’t care – if they lose half a billion dollars, I don’t think they care, as long as they absorb the the market.

I was kinda surprised to read his candor, but I guess when you're out of Fs to give, you're really out of them.

[hepcat]

Oh wow, I honestly didn't notice they stopped selling board games.

I switched over to gamenerdz a while ago, but I'll miss coolstuffinc board game booths at the cons, that's for sure.

[Blackhawk]

Crap, I hadn't heard that. I switched to CSI after Miniature Market was bought up by Asmodee and turned to corporate crappery. With the War Store also gone, I'm running out of sources.

[Blackhawk]

I'll miss coolstuffinc board game booths at the cons, that's for sure.

Especially their 'scratch and dent' booth at GenCon. A significant portion of my collection came from that booth.

[Smoove_B]

I'm running out of sources.

I pretty much buy from GameNerdz and rarely Troll Hoard Games. I had another store (Stone Valley Games) that I liked, but they announced last month they were closing. The owner of my war game store died back in 2021 (I think). It's been a grim few years for online vendors.

[Blackhawk]

The last time I went to a place with actual brick-and-mortar board game stores, every one I looked at was 70% TCGs, 25% Games Workshop, and the last 5% was always the board game equivalent of a Top 40 pop station.

[hepcat]

TCGs keep many of these stores solvent. Without them the doors would close. It’s been that way for a while now. Magic the Gathering changed the game and Pokémon perfected it.

[Smoove_B]

Magic the Gathering changed the game and Pokémon perfected it.

I have a single store in my town (one that is so close I could arguably bike to it) and that is all they sell - Pokemon and Magic the Gathering. I never would have guessed that would be a sustainable retail option, but they are apparently thriving.

[Blackhawk]

TCGs keep many of these stores solvent. Without them the doors would close. It’s been that way for a while now. Magic the Gathering changed the game and Pokémon perfected it.

Oh, I know. And I don't blame them for staying in business. It just isn't a business that I have any interest in. Ok, that's not true - I actively avoid them because I have a feeling that my collector's mentality would draw me in so deeply that it would end up being a problem (games where you have to constantly invest more money to play, especially through blind packs, is something for those with far more wealth than I.)

[YellowKing]

TCGs keep many of these stores solvent. Without them the doors would close. It’s been that way for a while now. Magic the Gathering changed the game and Pokémon perfected it.

Yeah I've probably mentioned it here before but the owner of my FLGS once told me that he could keep the store running on Magic the Gathering sales alone. He only sold board games for the fun of it.

[hentzau]

I’m really lucky to have one of the premier gaming stores in the country as my FLGS, Games Plus in Mount Prospect, IL. They got your Warhammer, they got your Magic, they got your Pokémon…but that’s about 1/3 of their store. Incredibly deep collection of board games, historical minis, RPGs, fantasy minis, hobby supplies, and on and on and on.

The gold standard of what a FLGS should be. If you find yourself in Chicago it’s really worth a trip to the burbs to see this place.

[TheMix]

We have a used bookstore near us that has a remarkably large section of board games. I haven't checked it in the last few years, however; so that may no longer be the case. I do need to drop by for a visit soon.

[Redfive]

Lucky enough to have Knight's Watch Games about two blocks from my office. Easily the best store in San Antonio and one of the first that wasn't clearly just a takeover of a previous retail space with little to no remodeling done before they started selling MtG and board games.

They've now opened a costume shop next door for Fantasy / Ren Faire gear, something I have an interest in but have never done.

[Punisher]

Well that explains CSI at Pax Unplugged. I always stop by their booth and thought it was odd that they seemed to only have card stuff. Now I know why.

[AWS260]

I'm trying to figure out what to get my brother-in-law for Xmas. He doesn't play a lot of tabletop games, but he has a battered old copy of Ascension that he loves. Is there a more modern deckbuilder that's similar-ish that I could get him?

[Smoove_B]

There was a 10 year anniversary edition that came out in 2021 that comes with a fancy gaming board. Not sure if the cards were updated or what...

I'm guessing someone is going to mention Ashes Reborn, but I don't have any practical experience, sorry.

[hepcat]

Ashes Reborn isn’t a deck builder. It’s a constructed deck game. Although my friends and I never take the time to do any deck construction and just use the pre constructed decks, as I have so many different phoenixborns.

It’s also one of the best head to head card games out there.

[Blackhawk]

So, storage.

A big part of the storage issues for board games comes from the way they're packaged. This goes double for Kickstarter projects, who send you a retail box, a Kickstarter box, and smaller boxes for each expansion. Don't even get me started on Monolith's Conan/Batman games, which ship literally dozens of boxes - hell, the expansion for Batman shipped with each figure in a separate box! With my limited space, I'm constantly having to rotate games on and off of the shelves, with the overflow sitting in storage. Right now, I've got it pruned about as much as I can manage, and my last few Kickstarters, due to start arriving soon, are potentially massive.

I've finally found some relatively affordable large boxes I can repack into (they sell them individually at the physical stores), which helps. They're not perfect - nowhere near as solid as actual game boxes, and I don't like shopping at Hobby Lobby (it's the only hobby shop within 75 miles), but I was able to get a couple of fairly solid 13" x 18" boxes for five bucks each. Between those, which can hold a game an a couple of expansions each, and Foam Factory pluck foam sheets for storing miniatures, I'm able to turn a few games from a dozen boxes into two or three.

The problem I'm having is components. I use these for most games:



I can get them for two bucks each on sale, and they're big enough to hold all of the components for probably 80% of games, and they're small enough that I can fit six or eight on top of each other on a shelf. There are two problems, though, which, I think, require two different solutions, two different products.

First, big enough for 80% of games means that they're too small for 20%. I have a few games that take up three of these boxes. I look around and see what other people use for storage, and I mostly see recommendations for tackle boxes that are $20 to $30 and up. I can't even begin to afford a stack of those! And that's what I need - something like this, but larger, able to hold all of the small parts for larger games, but cheap enough that I can buy a stack of them to make the most of my space, which requires a number of consistent containers rather than a different size/shape for each game.

The second problem - the compartments in my boxes are narrow, and the sides meet the bottom at right angles. That makes them fine for storage and setup, but a huge pain to quickly grab things from during play. I also have several different token bins, which are great for making things easy to grab during play, but terrible for storage. I've bought a couple of different compromise options, but they were both made from vacuum formed plastic (like the plastic trays deli food comes in), which is so flimsy that the lids wouldn't stay on, and the component 'spaces' were tiny. One required either having the lid sticking up, or folding it under, which then turned it into a token catapult. Obviously I can get a dozen tiny individual Tupperware-style boxes with lids, but that's also a mess on the table and fiddly for storage.

I'm not looking for something for long-term storage here, just something that I can move stored components into when I'm going to be playing a game repeatedly for a few months, after which I can put the components back into a storage box and use the 'table box' for the next game. That means that I only need a couple of these. Something with decent sized compartments with rounded/angled edges to make grabbing easy, that's not so tall that you can't see the components to grab the right one, but solid enough that it won't get knocked around the table. Something that can be closed for storage between games without having it pop open two days later.

So, I need two items: A bunch of one container for regular storage that's affordable enough to buy a number of, and a number of component trays that are of good enough quality to use on the table without playing 'look for the tokens' on the floor, and that can be stored with the components in place afterwards.

Any suggestions?

[Zarathud]

I consolidate expansions into game boxes aggressively. I have all of Arkham Horror Second Edition in two boxes, with a thin box for the map boards.

I’ve used those bins before for euros, and also for my D&D minis before I switched to Akro-Mills drawers. There are smaller 6-bay plastic boxes that work well — I often used one for player bits, and another for resources.

Edit — tackle bins like these.

[Smoove_B]

Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but my one friend organized Descent using this and maybe one or two other similar Stanley cases (like this one.

That was 10+ years ago so I'm not sure if there are generic cases that can be had for cheaper prices, but I can at least confirm they work well for what (I think) you're trying to do.

[Blackhawk]

There are smaller 6-bay plastic boxes that work well — I often used one for player bits, and another for resources.

Like these? I've looked at them, but I was hoping for something a little larger and more substantial, with a lid that actually attaches. It was one of theirs that I had problems with lids detaching inside of boxes.

[Blackhawk]

Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but my one friend organized Descent using this and maybe one or two other similar Stanley cases (like this one.

That was 10+ years ago so I'm not sure if there are generic cases that can be had for cheaper prices, but I can at least confirm they work well for what (I think) you're trying to do.

Those types of brand-name cases do (along with the ever-popular Plano boxes) are way more expensive than what I could afford to drop for multiple games. To rebox all of the multi-box games I already have and get a few extra for upcoming games with name-brand boxes like that would cost me multiples of hundreds. And, honestly - I don't travel with my games, which makes toolboxes overkill.

I was looking for something more in line with this, but with a similar number of larger slots (these would be so small that I wouldn't be able to reach in and grab things with the un-sloped corners.) This one is actually intended for beads, which is why they're so small.

[Zarathud]

The Y trays are more expensive — look up for a linked tackle box for small games. I often have 2-3 in small box games.

[Smoove_B]

I was looking for something more in line with this, but with a similar number of larger slots (these would be so small that I wouldn't be able to reach in and grab things with the un-sloped corners.) This one is actually intended for beads, which is why they're so small.

I've had mixed results with the larger partitioned containers, not just in price but in how useful they really are. I guess a lot also depends on whether or not you think you're going to be playing directly from the storage container. I've tried doing that, but Invariably end up putting tokens into a series of silicone baking cups instead because they're easier to use at the table. I feel like maybe you've also seen that (based on what you said originally), so I guess I'm confirming I don't know of a device like you've described - that is useful for both storage and game play.

When I hit that point (of not finding what I wanted), I transitioned to bags for storage and then if you're looking for stacking, sealing containers to store the bags and other components in (for easy access), I am a big fan of these bins that are sold on Amazon but actually can be found at Office Depot and Target. They have various depths and a locking lid; they stack great.

Again, I know that's not what you asked for, I'm just offering my observations as a former (recovering) tackle box / crafting tray / bead tray user.