Octopus Overlords

Since 2008, I have managed salary increases of 75% through raises, promotions, etc. In that time, local market CPI has gone up 20.5%.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:22 am Since 2008, I have managed salary increases of 75% through raises, promotions, etc. In that time, local market CPI has gone up 20.5%.

When I absorbed the work of a counterpart that was let go in 2008, they slowly upped my salary about 40% between then and now. I've sunk it all into retirement planning, which was getting almost nothing in 2008. And boy do I need to retirement plan because I'm doing the work of 2+ people for 1.5 people's salary and I'm exhausted.

It's weird. I have a great wage by most objective standards. I believe I'm in the top 10% of wage earners concurrent with living a spartan lifestyle in a place without a cost of living many here bemoan. Yet the only thing my great wage does is allow me to plan for retirement. If I had a family to support, that planning would go out the window. I don't know how people do it. My 401K estimates that if I worked until I was 67, that my present rate deposits and investing would keep me around until 84. Fortunately for me, I live on a budget that is a fraction of what they think I'll need. Unfortunately for me, I believe my medical expenses will be roughly 2 to 3 times the combined budget I am living off of now. I believe I could retire tomorrow on a tight budget that still allowed me a car once a decade, with only minor concerns about big maintenance projects if I had no medical to worry about.

And so we work and recalculate and work recalculate.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:22 am Since 2008, I have managed salary increases of 75% through raises, promotions, etc. In that time, local market CPI has gone up 20.5%.

I was starting to do the math, but not only do I not know what my salary was in 2008.. I couldn't tell you what my salary is now!

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:03 pmUnfortunately for me, I believe my medical expenses will be roughly 2 to 3 times the combined budget I am living off of now.

My mother recently qualified for Medicare as she graduated another year. She was thrilled that her insurance costs $350/mo with a $185 yearly deductible. She's looking forward to having all the procedures she's been putting off get done.

Paingod wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:26 pm My mother recently qualified for Medicare as she graduated another year. She was thrilled that her insurance costs $350/mo with a $185 yearly deductible. She's looking forward to having all the procedures she's been putting off get done.

Medicare is many years away and while the current state of the ACA makes sure I can pay for coverage. No income means I qualify for Medicaid, which means ACA subsidies. Only it's unlikely I'd really qualify for medicaid which means I still would purchase off the exchange. I've been trying to figure out costs and it's still foreign to me. Right now it looks like about $750 a month for a silver plan that actually covers stuff with an addition $6500 annual max, copays excluded. (Forget the deductible and co insure, I assume I will hit my out of pocket every year) Only I can't tell if I'd qualify for that with no income. If I can get by that "cheap" (say $17,000 a year) I'd be doing well and I think I could could anticipate that expense to bridge the gap to medicare after about another 4 to 5 year's work. I don't think I'm that lucky.

My salary is up almost 200% since I started my job 17 years ago this month.

Exodor wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 1:02 pm Had a second interview Tuesday for an IT position with my local city government. It would cut my commute from 45 minutes to 10 and come with about a 50% pay bump.

Didn't get it so the search continues.

We continue to be understaffed at my current job yet somehow we're barely breaking even so I know more help isn't coming any time soon. It's time to bail as soon as I can find a reasonable landing spot - my standards are starting to drop as my desire to get out increases.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:39 pm My salary is up almost 200% since I started my job 17 years ago this month.

My salary ends up being all over the place. Two years ago, I made almost double what I'm on track to make this year. Last year was about 1.5X. Three years ago, it was about 30% less than this year. Next year, who the hell knows. Depends heavily on the amount of Trump fuckery between now and then.

Ah, the joys of commission sales to the government.

Sales people are their own weird category.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:17 pm Sales people are their own weird category.

A statement which applies to pretty much every aspect of sales.

Which is why I never want to be one.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:16 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:39 pm My salary is up almost 200% since I started my job 17 years ago this month.

My salary ends up being all over the place. Two years ago, I made almost double what I'm on track to make this year. Last year was about 1.5X. Three years ago, it was about 30% less than this year. Next year, who the hell knows. Depends heavily on the amount of Trump fuckery between now and then.

Ah, the joys of commission sales to the government.

I know a couple people in Northern VA that do government sales. They do well for themselves (better than I do as an actual fed for sure!), but I honestly can't imagine that life.

You can make a ton, for sure. If you get one big deal or have a consistent client, it’s insane $$. I’ve got a colleague who has cleared well north of $400K/year for the last decade selling to the DOD. A friend with another training company got a $700k bonus one year...on top of his base salary.

I’m not anywhere near that working with civilian though.

And what has the worst salesperson that you’ve worked with made ?

We start people with a pretty solid base, which transitions to straight commission after a year. So if you don't get good client relationships lined up in that first 12 months, you won’t be making much...and you’ll be out of a job. I’ve seen people absolutely knock it outside of the park one year, and be out of a job the next when their big deal dries up. There is no such thing as job security, just “what have you done for me lately”.

My company is more patient than most, but if you’re not hitting goals and growing YOY, you better have your resume polished up.

Not to put words in his mouth, but typically shitty salesmen wash out rather quickly. Sometimes even good ones find themselves turned out because of office politics -- back in the early 90's, a friend of mine was a new salesman with a forms company and developed his territory to the point of generating $250K commission. Those with more standing and less success in the company tossed him out so they could grab his customers as their own. I haven't talked to that friend in many years, but the company that did that to him merged with the company I work for now (the merger was long before I came into the company, also via acquisition).

When I worked for Follett (late 80's), the salesman for Texas made $200K just from his fax machine processing orders from existing customers. He typically added another $100-200K in new business (this I know because I worked in payroll for them).

I'm on track to double my income this year over last. That really just means going from diddly-squat to squat, but it feels like I'm living large.

Seems my "career" has stalled again.

The entire delivery staff acknowledges that not only am I the fastest delivery guy around (I frequently finish 1 hour before other folks), I give insights and suggestions about routes and zones that nobody else does. There was some talk about moving me into a staff position in the office back in June, but since then, not a peep. Apparently, they think they can share office load with Sacramento (which also has a dispatch staff to handle things up there) they don't need another staff position, despite being short-staffed already. I'll surely have zero chance of moving to staff when the other guy comes back from his paternity FMLA leave. *sigh*

And of the three positions I interviewed for during the period I thought I was out of a job? All rejected. *sigh*

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:22 am Since 2008, I have managed salary increases of 75% through raises, promotions, etc. In that time, local market CPI has gone up 20.5%.

In the exact same time frame I'm up about 120%. I knew it was a lot more but I hadn't really put it into perspective. And I'm struck that I am being underpaid at the moment considering my current client and scope of responsibilities. I'm due for a promotion that'll should jump me another 20-25% again (or I leave the company because fuck that - I'm not killing myself to not get recognized for it).

Say what you will about unions but I know my salary going forward, I know my boss's salary and all my coworkers. No fucking around. I make 75k, you make 75k, we all make 75k. LoL.

it is pretty funny the self-enforced 'code of silence' employees have about their own salary/rates.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:43 pm it is pretty funny the self-enforced 'code of silence' employees have about their own salary/rates.

Why? What good could possibly come of it?

It’s not self-enforced. There aren’t protections in a lot of states against retaliation if you do discuss it.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:04 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:43 pm it is pretty funny the self-enforced 'code of silence' employees have about their own salary/rates.

Why? What good could possibly come of it?

It's good for the company. Bad for employees.

I told my co workers once what I made and almost got fired.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:39 pm My salary is up almost 200% since I started my job 17 years ago this month.

I have roughly doubled my salary in the 11 years I've been in this job.

Up about 250% since 2008 but I think that says more about what I was making then than it does now.

We're "merging" with a larger system and so the headhunters are out like vultures. I've gotten 2 offers and several resume requests. Mostly out of state. Not really interested in moving but I do want to see what kind of salary and relocation bonuses the the others are offering.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:56 pm We're "merging" with a larger system and so the headhunters are out like vultures. I've gotten 2 offers and several resume requests. Mostly out of state. Not really interested in moving but I do want to see what kind of salary and relocation bonuses the the others are offering.

Sorry to hear that. We got aquired about 5 years ago. I got a lot of raises to bring me up to the level that the new system paid someone for my experience and education. I finally got myself back in line for a job I had pretty much gaurenteed prior to the merger. So it might be fine to stay with the system that you are with now.

I mean, there was plenty of worry at first for me, and I had to drive further, and win my bosses over. But it's going well now.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:56 pm We're "merging" with a larger system and so the headhunters are out like vultures. I've gotten 2 offers and several resume requests. Mostly out of state. Not really interested in moving but I do want to see what kind of salary and relocation bonuses the the others are offering.

Where are they located? Some cities would required many more money trucks than others in my case.

EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:38 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:04 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:43 pm it is pretty funny the self-enforced 'code of silence' employees have about their own salary/rates.

Why? What good could possibly come of it?

It's good for the company. Bad for employees.

When employees know this information, it breeds discontent. A few years ago my company hired an executive cabana boy who's main purpose was to be at the beck and call of C-suite execs whenever they had technical issues. The thing was, he would get so nervous and totally lose composure around execs he could not be trusted to tend to him alone. He reported to my boss, I nearly hit the roof when I found out that he made almost as much as I do. Not because of myself, but on behalf of the rest of my minions, some making less than half that and every one of them 10x the tech this nitwit was. Had my minions ever discovered this, they would have rebelled.

Are you suggesting they shouldn't have rebelled?

I'm suggesting that if it was known, then nobody would be happy in their jobs. Which is what my comment was...no good can come of out sharing salary information.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:42 am I'm suggesting that if it was known, then nobody would be happy in their jobs. Which is what my comment was...no good can come of out sharing salary information.

No good for management - they will have to address the inequality or have unhappy workers. Plenty of good can come to the workers - they better understand how the company values them and can make an informed decision about going to a place that puts more value on their work.

I know the salary ranges for everyone on the tech ladder. Their title tells me where they fall on the ladder and I know the system works to push them to the middle of the range. I've yet to see a riot.

RMC wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:14 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:56 pm We're "merging" with a larger system and so the headhunters are out like vultures. I've gotten 2 offers and several resume requests. Mostly out of state. Not really interested in moving but I do want to see what kind of salary and relocation bonuses the the others are offering.

Sorry to hear that. We got aquired about 5 years ago. I got a lot of raises to bring me up to the level that the new system paid someone for my experience and education. I finally got myself back in line for a job I had pretty much gaurenteed prior to the merger. So it might be fine to stay with the system that you are with now.

I mean, there was plenty of worry at first for me, and I had to drive further, and win my bosses over. But it's going well now.

I was on the other side of about 4 of these, I saw it coming and got my ducks in a row so I'm not too worried about staying. I should do OK. I'd only consider moves out of state that are closer to family or in-city closer to home (hard to beat a 20 minute commute though).

I took this job because of the community focused mission and family history. The infusion of cash helps ensure it will stick around.

How does becoming disaffected help the workers? They were happy and employed one day, maybe enraged and jobless the next. Many factors go into salary, in my example, the position had a much higher job code; it's just that the execs that hired him hired an incompetent. Even among the same job code, there are other factors -- overall experience, cost-of-living in particular cities, etc.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:55 am How does becoming disaffected help the workers? They were happy and employed one day, maybe enraged and jobless the next. Many factors go into salary, in my example, the position had a much higher job code; it's just that the execs that hired him hired an incompetent. Even among the same job code, there are other factors -- overall experience, cost-of-living in particular cities, etc.

Knowing salaries lets workers maker informed choices, appropriate demands, and see if there are biases at play. Some workers won't be able to handle the truth - bummer for them. Others will be able to take action to get what they want. More information is always better.

It makes management's job a lot harder because they have a lot of explaining to do. Bummer for them.

I disagree. It creates animosity precisely because all factors going into a salary are not considered. I didn't even mention an employees ability to negotiate a better deal up front; those not astute enough to challenge an initial offer. These tend to be the same people who grow roots where they are at...they are not going to jump ship looking for a sweeter deal, they will simply become malcontents.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:22 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:38 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:04 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:43 pm it is pretty funny the self-enforced 'code of silence' employees have about their own salary/rates.

Why? What good could possibly come of it?

It's good for the company. Bad for employees.

When employees know this information, it breeds discontent. A few years ago my company hired an executive cabana boy who's main purpose was to be at the beck and call of C-suite execs whenever they had technical issues. The thing was, he would get so nervous and totally lose composure around execs he could not be trusted to tend to him alone. He reported to my boss, I nearly hit the roof when I found out that he made almost as much as I do. Not because of myself, but on behalf of the rest of my minions, some making less than half that and every one of them 10x the tech this nitwit was. Had my minions ever discovered this, they would have rebelled.

If people know what everyone makes it gives them power to ask for raises, get equal pay for women and minorities, etc. There are cases where it breeds discontent but those would be sorted out and it's not the norm. I have worked at public institutions where everyone's salary is available for the public to see. No one rebelled. There are numerous articles on it.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-shou ... 5aba98f053
https://ideas.ted.com/why-you-should-kn ... -get-paid/

How do you define "equal pay" when there are factors such experience, job grade, and negotiating skill? Is it unequal when a woman fails to negotiate a 3rd week of vacation while two others hired at close to the same time did ask for a 3rd week? The company I work for does not respond to demands for a raise, everyone gets the same miserable 1%. Periodically, there might be a slight market adjustment. It's almost always better to be a new hire because then you are likely to be hired well within market rates, while old timers fall behind because the market rates moves faster than 1%.