Octopus Overlords

Remus West wrote:Wow. All three of those votes are weird to me.

I'd really like to hear more from Grundbegriff.

Funny I'd like to hear more from you!

Remus West wrote:Wow. All three of those votes are weird to me.

I'd really like to hear more from Grundbegriff.

I'm starting to wonder if we will.

 Grundbegriff 
 

RMC's entire game.

RMC, this isn't just you being On one vote and Off another. It's a number of things.

1. You start the game with what is easily the easiest and least wave making thing you can do - you joke with the guy that had voted you off the last game.
2. You are very careful to point out that it was a joke vote.
3. You very gently mention that triggercut is triggercuting, but are careful to point out you don't mean anything by it, you were just bored.
4. The only post with any ounce of actual 'game play' in it is where you again point out that your vote on Unagi was a joke, and then you list a few methods of finding wolves that you don't buy into. You add that you really don't see any reason to vote for Scoop.
5. Grundbegriff blesses you with one of his few posts - a reply about the values of Post Counting.
6. You then agree to the CR 'slip of the tongue' (WHICH MADE NO SENSE!!)
7. You come into the game after CR is dead and are careful to communicate why it is that you couldn't do anything about your vote.
8. 2 whole days without a post from you.
9. Now, the Heat Is On RMC a little and your name is being mentioned by folks... you come in and defend yourself and <shrug> a lot.
10. 4 more days pass and you come on and join our train on Newcastle.


You have really played much - and you have been gone during very interesting stretches of development.

Your comments on EVERYTHING have been limited to:
Not voting for Scoop.
Voting for CR.
Not being sure why you are on suspect lists
Voting for Newcastle.

No real comments on any other players, and we have a shit ton of them.... Are you wondering anything?

If I had to guess - you aren't playing the game I am playing:: You are NOT sitting here trying to find the Rebels. You are going through the motions.



Here is Everything you have done in this 35 page game:

10 whole posts

Oh, and take note of all the " " tossed about...

RMC wrote:Just checking in. I have been reading the thread, but not a whole lot of insight yet. But my vote is simply a little revenge:
 Unagi the asshat 
 

RMC wrote:

Unagi wrote:Revenge for what?
We won the game and you came out looking all "see, I'm just a good guy"... How is that not a total net gain for you?


Revenge, please.

More like, thank you...

For doubting me... And I put a smiley on it.

RMC wrote:BB - something is off, as Theohall has two votes, one on me, and one on Unagi. I have not tracked it back down.. But will if I get time.

RMC wrote:So is this the infamous triggercut rule now?

Someone disagrees with trigger and they get voted for?

Just asking, because I am bored and it is Friday.

RMC wrote:Well I did a re-read, and I am no further than my first guess, which was really just so I could use the word Asshat again. That word still make me giggle for some reason.

 Withdraw Unagi 
 


So let's take a look. Post counts at this point are a red herring in my book. The quiet ones might be on team evil, but they could be good specials hiding out. So with a few weekends and a holiday weekend in the mix I am really reluctant to use that as my only base point.

There does not seem to be a ton of real reasons to run Scoop up, but all these secret votes just scare me, so I think we should follow the advice from someone earlier about being careful, as we might get close with someone, and the rebels can just throw him over without us having a chance to hear him claim if he is anything.

But we have two more days to come to a consensus.. I guess Scoop is a good a vote as any right now, but I have learned from my last games that sometimes those first trains are not the ones to get on board with..

RMC wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:

RMC wrote:Post counts at this point are a red herring in my book. The quiet ones might be on team evil, but they could be good specials hiding out. So with a few weekends and a holiday weekend in the mix I am really reluctant to use that as my only base point.

The goal of a post count isn't to identify the quiet ones. It's to identify the ones who aren't doing what they typically do.

Valid point, and red herring might have been a bad choice of words, I simply wanted to clarify that low post counts, of which I was one, is not in itself on Day 1 an indication of good or evil.

I concede that it does help establish a pattern to see what someone is doing vs what they have don in the past. Or even the change from day 1 to day x.

RMC wrote:

triggercut wrote:In fact, I think it's worth a vote.

 Withdraw Unagi 
 


 Chaosraven 
 

I agree this looks like a slip of the tongue.

 Chaosraven 
 

Chaosraven wrote:How about if we run  scoop 
 
back up to n-1 and see if Dooku wants to let us all know he's here?

What you talking about CR?

RMC wrote:Well... I am just home from work and that sucks..I didn't remove my vote, because I was at work when it all went down.
I really need to reread about 5 or more pages to see if I can find any patterns. And make heads or tails on what happened during the day..

RMC wrote:Alright.. I have been quiet and I was on the kill of CR. Both bad things that can help to get me lynched. My style of play has been evolving, but I always seem to pick the wrong things to do on day 1, and am a suspect for the rest of these types of games.

<shrug> What can I say. I voted Unagi simply because last game he was the final vote to lynch me. I left that vote, when I really was not tracking anyone, and then Trig pointed out the slip by CR, and I followed that logic. It seemed solid, and the entire scoop thing seemed like a train on day 1 that was just because there was no one else. I was wrong, and should have switched to him, but I was at work for most of that weirdness that happened. For what it is worth, I would have taken my vote off CR once he claimed special if I had been online.

So trig has pointed out that I did not join the scoop train but only joined the CR train. I joined the train because of his observations, and this makes me a member of team rebel? I will not belabor the point, but I tend to pick a target and stay there until someone offers a better target. In this case, I was not online to move my vote, I apologize for that.

So what should we do? I think we should take out the known rebel this day cycle. The real question is how do we do it? Do we shoot/choke him, or just lynch him?

I need to really read through and come up with my top three, which I will try to do this weekend.

RMC wrote:I have no idea why I keep making Trig's list of rebel suspects, but I'm there.

 Newcastle 
 

The only thing I did, was stay on he CR train, and not jump onto the Scoop train. <shrug> I explained that and will not keep harping on what I did. We have what I consider a sure fire thing with Newcastle, as I see no reason for El Gaupo to lie. If Newcastle is not rebel, then El Gaupo is the next target for Lynch.

Off to work. Catch up tonight.

After that is this "Second Phase" of the game, where we need to answer to the First Phase of the game... In that phase you have posted a few times lamenting how this is just like last game. But this isn't like last game, you had a whole slew of posts last game where you were actually playing.

You clammed up HARD in this game.

pr0ner wrote:

Remus West wrote:Wow. All three of those votes are weird to me.

I'd really like to hear more from Grundbegriff.

I'm starting to wonder if we will.

 Grundbegriff 
 

I think that is a very dangerous vote to place pr0ner. I think we should hold onto Grund in our back-pocket until the "How Many Misses do we have left" time is around - and we don't have better suspects.

The only strategic reason for Grunds play would be to invite out Lynch of him... (or a night kill, but that's looking like it isn't gonna happen...)

You may be right, but Grund has clammed up more than even RMC has. It smells funny.

You may be right, but Grund has clammed up more than even RMC has. It smells funny.

 withdraw Grundbegriff 
 


 RMC 
 

Remus West wrote:Wow. All three of those votes are weird to me.

I'd really like to hear more from Grundbegriff.

Unagi's instincts seem to be running hot and I don't see much else to go on. I started with votes on Grund on day 1 due to his lack of participation but nobody was interesting in coming on board. I still think he is quiet because he has the outlet of the rebel forum but that's just a thought without any evidence.

I'm good with either RMC or Grund. I've been known to be a flakey person in some games, but Grund usually isn't. He is surging on my suspicion list, because everything he does is deliberate.

coopasonic wrote:

Remus West wrote:Wow. All three of those votes are weird to me.

I'd really like to hear more from Grundbegriff.

Unagi's instincts seem to be running hot and I don't see much else to go on. I started with votes on Grund on day 1 due to his lack of participation but nobody was interesting in coming on board. I still think he is quiet because he has the outlet of the rebel forum but that's just a thought without any evidence.

As much as my preference is to go after the silent, I was actually following your lead figuring it was an either/or with you and RMC and I now I feel as though you are trying to pawn off your own conclusions on Unagi. I don't dig that, so oddly enough I'll go back following someone else's lead.

kk or  coop 
 
but as time winds down, if RMC is the will the people, I'll jump back there... Grund, I also find interesting. I have no idea what he's getting at. I don't want to waste kills and not knowing what he's getting at makes me think the kill would be wasted.

My assumption on game play:

7 probable rebels minus 3 = 4. 14 players means 12 tomorrow, 10 two days from now = two misses. Chewie won't change that. An overvote won't change that. The two together will. A converted Mara will change things. Meaning, short of Greedo and Rukh, the rebels could set themselves up for a win today if the planets were aligned perfectly. But not knowing if they're out there, leaves them still playing carefully if they are set up. The lackluster voting and game play has me more than a little concerned about that sort of control though optimism tells me we still get two misses and that at least Greed or Rukh exist.

Assuming that Han existed and it dead, Greedo and Rukh in the game may be time to think about killing. Which then leaves my hope that Grund is one of those two, begging for attention with his silence and also keeping him free from night kills and knowing that if gets killed at night then he never got his trial by fire. I'm not sure when to gamble on voting for him. Today could be that day but personally, I like tomorrow.

If Grund is Chewie then we will need to tackle that at some point and I'd rather do it while we still have the numbers to take the hit

tru1cy wrote:If Grund is Chewie then we will need to tackle that at some point and I'd rather do it while we still have the numbers to take the hit

Absodamnedlutely if anyone is chewie, we need to takle that at some point but what makes you think he's chewie?

LordMortis wrote:

tru1cy wrote:If Grund is Chewie then we will need to tackle that at some point and I'd rather do it while we still have the numbers to take the hit

Absodamnedlutely if anyone is chewie, we need to takle that at some point but what makes you think he's chewie?

His lack of actually playing. Its like he is inviting votes

LordMortis wrote:As much as my preference is to go after the silent, I was actually following your lead figuring it was an either/or with you and RMC and I now I feel as though you are trying to pawn off your own conclusions on Unagi. I don't dig that, so oddly enough I'll go back following someone else's lead.

kk or  coop 
 
but as time winds down, if RMC is the will the people, I'll jump back there... Grund, I also find interesting. I have no idea what he's getting at. I don't want to waste kills and not knowing what he's getting at makes me think the kill would be wasted.

I'm not pawning anything off on Unagi. I'm admitting I have no idea who could be a rebel. None. Unagi shot Qantaga out of a crowd based on nothing as far as I can tell. If he can pull that off, better to trust his list of suspects than my own which has done me wrong on both contested lynches I guess I am pawning the thinking and analysis off on Unagi, but I am doing it up front, without deception.

Past results is no guarantee of future performance. Don't you work for a financial company?

tru1cy wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

tru1cy wrote:If Grund is Chewie then we will need to tackle that at some point and I'd rather do it while we still have the numbers to take the hit

Absodamnedlutely if anyone is chewie, we need to takle that at some point but what makes you think he's chewie?

His lack of actually playing. Its like he is inviting votes

NO. 1,000 Times NO.

So wrong.

You take the Zerker as the LAST wolf - ALWAYS (if you have any ounce of control over it!) .... that way his attack doesn't even count.... Do the numbers.

You don't "take the hit" now.... Holy fuck.

Checking back again, I missed Lando in my assumption. Essentially the last miss could happen at any moment, short of Greedo and Rukh.

Oddly enough our best hope is for Luke and no Mara, and Talon to be in the game and living. With the probability the R2 and Leia panicked at their own deaths we'd have two remaining rebels who combined could pretty much guarantee bumping up an imperial loss by a day. Maybe a Grund test to get him talking isn't so bad. Of course he's not the only deadly silent person around. He's just the one who to my knowledge has never been this silent.

 grund 
 

Unagi wrote:

tru1cy wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

tru1cy wrote:If Grund is Chewie then we will need to tackle that at some point and I'd rather do it while we still have the numbers to take the hit

Absodamnedlutely if anyone is chewie, we need to takle that at some point but what makes you think he's chewie?

His lack of actually playing. Its like he is inviting votes

NO. 1,000 Times NO.

So wrong.

You take the Zerker as the LAST wolf - ALWAYS (if you have any ounce of control over it!) .... that way his attack doesn't even count.... Do the numbers.

You don't "take the hit" now.... Holy fuck.

Why is that? Though it'd be better to shoot a zerker if you can.

LordMortis wrote:

Unagi wrote:

tru1cy wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

tru1cy wrote:If Grund is Chewie then we will need to tackle that at some point and I'd rather do it while we still have the numbers to take the hit

Absodamnedlutely if anyone is chewie, we need to takle that at some point but what makes you think he's chewie?

His lack of actually playing. Its like he is inviting votes

NO. 1,000 Times NO.

So wrong.

You take the Zerker as the LAST wolf - ALWAYS (if you have any ounce of control over it!) .... that way his attack doesn't even count.... Do the numbers.

You don't "take the hit" now.... Holy fuck.

Why is that? Though it'd be better to shoot a zerker if you can.

Because the 'zerker winds up taking himself out so doesn't help the wolves win if it's the last day. Say it's 3 humans 1 wolf. If the last wolf is a zerker, it doesn't matter - he goes bananas and kills a human, so that it's 2 humans 1 wolf. Now the two humans kill the zerker, and it's 2 humans 0 wolves, so human victory, and the wolves don't get to that last night kill to win.

I think, anyways.

I don't see anything about Chewie taking himself out. Is that always assumed?

The opposite seems to be implied. "His identity is revealed" seems to imply that we will live through his zerking and that he'll just get voted down if we can muster enough votes to pull him down after he's done his tearing.

Isgrimnur wrote:Past results is no guarantee of future performance. Don't you work for a financial company?

Yes and I spent 8 years on and then leading a credit decisioning implementation team. Past results are not a guarantee, but they are absolutely an indicator and probably the best indicator.

LordMortis wrote:The opposite seems to be implied. "His identity is revealed" seems to imply that we will live through his zerking and that he'll just get voted down if we can muster enough votes to pull him down after he's done his tearing.

If we can't muster enough votes, we've already lost.

Right now I'd say my pool of *possible* rebels, in no particular order, is this:

Lord Mortis
Coop
Grund
Mr. Bubbles
Tru1cy
RMC

Unagi's case against RMC isn't a bad one. I guess gun to my head right now I'd vote for him.

Coop's another possibility. Sometimes he seems sensible, sometimes he seems crazy. Been on the wrong side of a couple votes. What got me about the Newcastle thing was not so much that he was hesitant, but that he seemed pretty ready to embrace the crazy theories as opposed to simple expressions of caution. Not sure what to make of the quick, mostly unexplained "hey, Trig wanted us to vote RMC" vote today; seems to make a likely binary where either RMC or him are a rebel but not both.

Grund's a possibility. I guess the question is whether the silence is due to personal stuff; if so I'd feel bad dinging him for it. If it's strategic, though, it certainly looks bad.

I had been suspicious of KK, but going back through the beginning of the thread he reads better to me, so he's off my short list at the moment..

Lastly, with Mr. Bubbles, what's the case that his post-deletion indicates that he's a rebel? It's conceptually weird to lynch him based on that as seemingly a kind of "game misconduct". Even if he shouldn't have, that only merits a lynch if it seems to make him seem like a rebel? So what's the case - he posts suspicions about Remus, sees his rebel co-hort stun Remus, realizes his post looks wrong and suspicious, and tries to delete it before anyone sees it?

Mr Bubbles' game. (It just looks like a long post, please do read it)

He starts off normal enough...

Mr Bubbles wrote:Oh I'm so giddy, it's like that night at prom when I can't remember what the hell happened, but apparently I had a really good time.

Addresses Semaj...

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Semaj wrote:I didnt go to my prom
 bubbles 
 

I expected Remus to vote for me. After all he promised to recently, but you... Semaj.. you cut me deep!

A little more filler....

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Chaosraven wrote:

Remus West wrote:eerie.

that's to funny

ha! I see what you did there....

I'm still analyzing the post for a secret code in there somewhere. I don't put anything past those rebel scum.

Yuck'n it up here some more.

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Chaosraven wrote:

Remus West wrote:eerie.

that's to funny

ha! I see what you did there....

I'm still analyzing the post for a secret code in there somewhere. I don't put anything past those rebel scum.

Meh. You're too dense to find it.

I utilize my space well, therefore dense is a compliment. I'm going out on a limb here and I'll call you.... Lando.. Despite being a crafty bastard, I'll break you eventually.

Throws down what will be a very lonely vote for Semaj

Mr Bubbles wrote:I think I'm ready to throw my hat in for  Semaj 
 

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Lassr wrote:

stessier wrote:

Lassr wrote:

El Guapo wrote:What's the "triggercut" rule?

It's bothering me that, unless a rebel screws up, our lynch today is inevitably going to be 95% guess, and given that imperials outnumber rebels, we're probably going to miss. But then there isn't really any way around that that I can see.

welcome to day 1.

triggercut rule: retaliation vote on someone voting for him with the reasoning that triggercut knows he's good so the one voting for him could be bad or is not helping the good side win.

 Lassr 
 


Lassr Rule - A Helpful Lassr is and Evil Lassr.

can I help you with your grammar/spelling?

I see what you did there! Trying to out Remus, Remus.

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:I have to say I like to see Unagi very active in this game so far. Real chippy. Its my favorite of his personas.

I'm glad you got rid of that Taylor Swift persona, I was staring at your mouth way too much.

Just to get a feeling for "time", this is the point in the game where RMC first put his vote down for me. i.e. Very Early in the game.

Nothing very substantial has happened yet.

July 6th.

Mr Bubbles wrote:We've been wrong before about scoop. Hell, it happens to me all the time and the train builds. I am not inclined to vote Scoop at this point, but Coop is someone I am watching closely.

So, we will not be getting a Scoop vote from Mr Bubbles. This is what he is sure about.


Mr Bubbles gets sick, but checks back in before the final push on Scoop is made... actually only after his name is mentioned.

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Unagi wrote:Oh wait - look at that, Mr Bubbles is here.

nice timing.

 Mr Bubbles 
 



Let's give the train a chance....


(I'll be back on Scoop this afternoon if this train doesn't move)

??? You think I'm meta gaming? I don't do that period. Good try though.

What I got from his protest was that he wanted my accusation against him to be soured with "meta gaming". I found it to be an odd accusation.


This is where I start to really gain suspicion of Mr Bubbles.

We have been in the Thick Of It over Scoop, and all of the many other things that day held for us.

This is the only input we get from Mr. Bubbles over the next few days:

Mr Bubbles wrote:Sorry for absence. Still home sick, but awake enough to soak all these last quick 15 pages or so
Will be reading through everything today and will catch myself back up now that day 2 is in action.

ahh, shucks - Mr Bubbles didn't get back in time to contribute much to the Scoop debate....

Mr Bubbles wrote:I'm all caught up and now scoop is dead. I have some suspicions now that I have read it over two times, but I will wait until the next day before I post some input.

But, he says he will have some input soon...



Nothing really... In fact - He DELETES the post (I read it) and he went off for a little about Remus being perhaps pretending the 'Helpful Imperial' role.

The Deleted Post.
Here is what you take from that: It's not "What was in the post" that really matters - (Ask Isgrimnur!)
It's the fact that Mr Bubbles' Don't-Make-Waves subroutine was even engaged and running.

It's very simple:
He posted something and thought: "no, delete that! Now!"

For what ever reason, he didn't feel like putting up with the grief or noise that his post would have generated.

This from a player that Desprately Owes Us a window into his head in this game.

That's a big big thing.

This isn't about 'Punishing Mr Bubbles', this is about busting him while being careful. Mr Bubbles is very much the "I don't give a shit what you think", type player (So is Newcastle), whether they are Good or Evil.


Now what really seals the deal, IMO, is how Newcastle reached out at that moment (a moment where HE KNEW (you know he knew this...) he would soon be dead and revealed a Rebel.

This was Newcastle trying to cover for his fellow Rebel, by blowing the whistle on him.

Remember Mr. Bubbles' reaction to what he thought was me accusing him of meta-gaming...

I found it odd for him to be so casually dismisive with Newcastle's accusation:

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Newcastle wrote:shame on you mr. bubbles for deleting a post....

i think you said something about remus & grund...bad bad bad form dude. I forget what specifically..... i know you posted something, i was here i read it.

Oh don't get your panties in a bunch. I had to rethink my words after El Guapo's revelation. Grund is definitely up to something, that I will reiterate.

The push for Grund is also interesting. There doesn't seem to be any concern or discussion or anything regarding really what he could be up to... I mean - HELLO? Why don't people assume he's the f-ing Wookie.
Grund may not be, but his abscence will certainly compel people to vote Grndbegriff - so, um - gee, let's maybe concider THAT to be the goal of it.... Right ??


And then here is the cherry:

Mr Bubbles wrote:

Unagi wrote:

pr0ner wrote:

Unagi wrote:Qantaga is next.

So you want to give Isgrimnur a free pass for going after Bubbles today and not Newcastle?

Here is my take on that event.

Don't you think it would be like the last thing a Rebel would want to do? To come out looking like he is protecting Newcastle, when we all pretty much know that Newcastle isn't Imperial and is indeed Leia? That just doesn't seem like something a Rebel would want to come right out and say he is willing to do....

Additionally - I actually do think that Mr Bubbles is indeed Rebel.
Additionally - Isgrimnur truly was Busted-Evil when he himself deleted what was basically a harmless post - but Isgrimnur knows that he would very likely NOT have deleted the post if he was Villager - it was his "super careful" mode that inclined him to remove a post that he felt may give him a little unwanted attention

(Mr Bubbles' post had in it a comment/'mild accusation' that he thought Remus was pretending/playing the role of informed Imperial... or something to that effect.)

I read Isgrimnur's response to Mr Bubbles deleted post to be very much in line with a "non wolf" wanting to bust a wolf in the way that he was once busted...

You think I would be so careless if I was a rebel? You insult me Unagi. I accuse remus, because at the time I felt he was a wolf in sheeps clothing and I had to reevaluate it. But feel free to put your vote on me if you want, although all you'll get is a imperial supporter.

Ohhh Mr Bubbles.
"You think I would be so careless...."
"You insult me"...

I swear if you search for this stuff, this is how Mr Bubbles acts when correctly accused.




Now, let's try to Uncover a Lie.

Mr Bubbles wrote:... my initial reaction to reading through the whole thread was Remus was a bad guy with great intentions. Working to gain our trust, but ultimately a bad guy. The post I deleted was airing these suspicions.

But wait, what was it that was claimed to be the subject of that deleted post:
Here is how Mr Bubbles wanted to describe it:

Mr Bubbles wrote:I had to rethink my words after El Guapo's revelation. Grund is definitely up to something, that I will reiterate.

and it was collaborated by Newcastle:

Newcastle wrote: -Bubbles...i just wanted to point it out for future readers...thats all..nothing nefarious behind it...i just dont like post deletions...and since you admitted it...and the gist of whatyou said...i forgive.

So, According to Newcastle (who would have LOVED to throw a little mud at an Imperial Mr Bubbles) - according to Newcastle, Mr Bubbles Deleted Post was covered by the gist of:

• "Grund is definitely up to something, that I will reiterate"

So, Why didn't Newcastle ask about all the talk about Remus?
Why didn't Mr Bubbles descibe "the gist" of his Deleted Post as being:

• "Remus was a bad guy with great intentions. Working to gain our trust, but ultimately a bad guy. The post I deleted was airing these suspicions."

the first time... and why did Newcastle totally let it slide when he said "and since you admitted it...and the gist of whatyou said...i forgive."

El Guapo wrote:Not sure what to make of the quick, mostly unexplained "hey, Trig wanted us to vote RMC" vote today; seems to make a likely binary where either RMC or him are a rebel but not both.

He topped both Trig and Unagi's suspect lists so it seemed like a foregone conclusion. Apparently it wasn't. I've said before that I like it when the game is moving and I thought we could continue the momentum of the end of day 3. Maybe I don't really have the patience for these games.

Man, I'm glad Unagi is willing to go back and compile these quote compendia, because I'm sure not. Makes me extra glad that he's proven.

out of curiosity, has any one ever kept a tally on how many post deleters were good guys versus bad guys. It screams of guilt to me. So much so I can't imagine why a bad guy would do it. However my (faulty) memory has me convinced that the two instances of post deleting I've seen were done by bad guys.

LordMortis wrote:Why is that? Though it'd be better to shoot a zerker if you can.

Well, of course, if one could shoot the zerker, that's certainly more ideal...

We were talking about "if you had to take the brunt of the zerk-attack, when was the best time to take that attack"

Now?

or

Later?


I say: Last.


I've been on wolf teams where it was quite apparent, if our zerker was lynched last; his power was wasted.

You calling me a liar?

El Guapo wrote:Lastly, with Mr. Bubbles, what's the case that his post-deletion indicates that he's a rebel? It's conceptually weird to lynch him based on that as seemingly a kind of "game misconduct". Even if he shouldn't have, that only merits a lynch if it seems to make him seem like a rebel? So what's the case - he posts suspicions about Remus, sees his rebel co-hort stun Remus, realizes his post looks wrong and suspicious, and tries to delete it before anyone sees it?

I will reiterate, the case against Mr Bubbles isn't a case of Game Misconduct (or punishment), it's about what compels people to remove their posts. (Ask Isgrimnur).

That alone may not be enough (it probably wouldn't have been enough for me, alone)
However it wasn't alone, there was a lot of poor timing, and then empty "promises of future input to come"... as well... (the cherry being the "if I was evil, would I..." line)

Add to that the part I labelled in red above: "Lets Uncover a Lie"
What do you make of that? Anything ?

Why delete a post if you're innocent? If you've worked on a post, and events outpace the conclusion you've drawn, a follow-up post of, "oops, I was wrong, my bad" and a comparison of timestamps is usually enough to give you a free walk. So why go out of your way to delete a post unless you think that something in it is going to draw unwanted attention?

LordMortis wrote:out of curiosity, has any one ever kept a tally on how many post deleters were good guys versus bad guys.

Yes.

It's 7 bad guys vs 1 good guy.

Bubbles makes it 8.

 Mr. Bubbles 
 


My vote was there before, there's no reason at the moment to put it back.

Isgrimnur wrote: Mr. Bubbles 
 


My vote was there before, there's no reason at the moment to put it back.

There's no reason not to put it back.

Unagi wrote:

tru1cy wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

tru1cy wrote:If Grund is Chewie then we will need to tackle that at some point and I'd rather do it while we still have the numbers to take the hit

Absodamnedlutely if anyone is chewie, we need to takle that at some point but what makes you think he's chewie?

His lack of actually playing. Its like he is inviting votes

NO. 1,000 Times NO.

So wrong.

You take the Zerker as the LAST wolf - ALWAYS (if you have any ounce of control over it!) .... that way his attack doesn't even count.... Do the numbers.

You don't "take the hit" now.... Holy fuck.

So you actually think leaving a zerker alive for end game where we might not have the numbers? Unagicide We will just have to disagree on this tactic

Unagi wrote:I've been on wolf teams where it was quite apparent, if our zerker was lynched last; his power was wasted.

You calling me a liar?

Actually, I suppose if the zerker is last then the power is wasted because he must win without using the power. But quite frankly, if I were a berzerker, I'd not try to get myself lynched just to use my power. If I understand you correctly, then you are saying don't press grund until you believe there is only one rebel left. What do we use to gauge when there is one rebel left?

Unagi wrote:

El Guapo wrote:Lastly, with Mr. Bubbles, what's the case that his post-deletion indicates that he's a rebel? It's conceptually weird to lynch him based on that as seemingly a kind of "game misconduct". Even if he shouldn't have, that only merits a lynch if it seems to make him seem like a rebel? So what's the case - he posts suspicions about Remus, sees his rebel co-hort stun Remus, realizes his post looks wrong and suspicious, and tries to delete it before anyone sees it?

I will reiterate, the case against Mr Bubbles isn't a case of Game Misconduct (or punishment), it's about what compels people to remove their posts. (Ask Isgrimnur).

That alone may not be enough (it probably wouldn't have been enough for me, alone)
However it wasn't alone, there was a lot of poor timing, and then empty "promises of future input to come"... as well... (the cherry being the "if I was evil, would I..." line)

Add to that the part I labelled in red above: "Lets Uncover a Lie"
What do you make of that? Anything ?

I posted what you're quoting before you posted your detailed Bubbles takedown (Bubbledown?). I am inclined to agree, but prior to your post most people's statements on the matter seemed to be more a matter of decorum than rebel-finding.

As for the lie, at the time I didn't think that "Grund is definitely up to something" was a summary of the post he had deleted, just a different thought (though I guess that would beg the question of what he was "reiterating".

I think there's a good case against Bubbles based on the bad optics of thread deletion (as Isgrimnur puts it, why would you delete as opposed to "whoops, never mind" follow up post unless you felt you had something to hide), and the faux "hey, sorry I'm too late, but I'll be sure to post something helpful tomorrow" help.

Unagi wrote:

LordMortis wrote:out of curiosity, has any one ever kept a tally on how many post deleters were good guys versus bad guys.

Yes.

It's 7 bad guys vs 1 good guy.

Bubbles makes it 8.

Wow. Really? I'm trusting you aren't making that up. I'm going with the odds then

 bubbles 
 


And no that's not punishment. That's probability.

tru1cy wrote:So you actually think leaving a zerker alive for end game where we might not have the numbers? Unagicide We will just have to disagree on this tactic

Take the zerker now... that's exactly how you go about reaching the state of 'not having the numbers.'

You haven't even bothered to do the math here.

And, I'm fine to just disagree on the tactic.

El Guapo wrote:As for the lie, at the time I didn't think that "Grund is definitely up to something" was a summary of the post he had deleted, just a different thought (though I guess that would beg the question of what he was "reiterating".

And, Newcastle's comment/confirmation that the "reiteration that Grund was up to something" was indeed "the gist of it"... when it totally wasn't.