Octopus Overlords

Well yeah, but I trust NESN. EvilHomer - not so much.

stessier wrote:Yeah, like I'm clicking a youtube link.

NESN is stable for me.

Yup, it's people on duck boats all right. Those two minutes I spent watching it were the most thrilling of my life.

I sense you're not getting into the spirit of the event.

stessier wrote:I sense you're not getting into the spirit of the event.

Quite the opposite! Who wouldn't enjoy video of people standing on boats?

El Guapo wrote:

stessier wrote:I sense you're not getting into the spirit of the event.

Quite the opposite! Who wouldn't enjoy video of people standing on boats?

They are also trucks, if that helps.

Yeah - flatbeds with the best hairbands of the 80s!!

Shanahan to SF and Sark from Bama OC to Falcons OC. Ouch. Can't blame him though.

Lassr wrote:Shanahan to SF and Sark from Bama OC to Falcons OC. Ouch. Can't blame him though.

To be fair, he was at Alabama for an entire game. I would say he paid his dues.

It's amazing that the 49ers can get anyone good when the organization is such a mess.

Lassr wrote:Shanahan to SF and Sark from Bama OC to Falcons OC. Ouch. Can't blame him though.

Is this Superbowl news? It sounds suspiciously like something that belongs in the 2017 Offseason thread.

Jeff V wrote:

Lassr wrote:Shanahan to SF and Sark from Bama OC to Falcons OC. Ouch. Can't blame him though.

Is this Superbowl news? It sounds suspiciously like something that belongs in the 2017 Offseason thread.

didn't know there was an Offseason thread yet.

Lassr wrote:

Jeff V wrote:

Lassr wrote:Shanahan to SF and Sark from Bama OC to Falcons OC. Ouch. Can't blame him though.

Is this Superbowl news? It sounds suspiciously like something that belongs in the 2017 Offseason thread.

didn't know there was an Offseason thread yet.

Allow me,

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... =5&t=93854

Rip wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Jeff V wrote:

Lassr wrote:Shanahan to SF and Sark from Bama OC to Falcons OC. Ouch. Can't blame him though.

Is this Superbowl news? It sounds suspiciously like something that belongs in the 2017 Offseason thread.

didn't know there was an Offseason thread yet.

Allow me,

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... =5&t=93854

yes I found it buried half way down the page.

El Guapo wrote:It's amazing that the 49ers can get anyone good when the organization is such a mess.

5 rushing attempts with a 23 point lead. I'm hesitant to call him good... hehe. Zero chance Shanny could have come back to ATL after that game.

morlac wrote:

El Guapo wrote:It's amazing that the 49ers can get anyone good when the organization is such a mess.

5 rushing attempts with a 23 point lead. I'm hesitant to call him good... hehe. Zero chance Shanny could have come back to ATL after that game.

Really? I mean sure, as a Patriots fan I am deeply appreciative of him calling two pass plays starting at 2nd and 11 on the Patriots 23 yard line with an 8 point lead and under 4 minutes left in the fourth quarter, BUT I don't think that wipes out what he did during the regular season and in the playoffs up to that point.

El Guapo wrote:

morlac wrote:

El Guapo wrote:It's amazing that the 49ers can get anyone good when the organization is such a mess.

5 rushing attempts with a 23 point lead. I'm hesitant to call him good... hehe. Zero chance Shanny could have come back to ATL after that game.

Really? I mean sure, as a Patriots fan I am deeply appreciative of him calling two pass plays starting at 2nd and 11 on the Patriots 23 yard line with an 8 point lead and under 4 minutes left in the fourth quarter, BUT I don't think that wipes out what he did during the regular season and in the playoffs up to that point.

Not to mention the head coach has a responsibility to say, "um.. Kyle, Mix in a few runs."

noxiousdog wrote:

El Guapo wrote:

morlac wrote:

El Guapo wrote:It's amazing that the 49ers can get anyone good when the organization is such a mess.

5 rushing attempts with a 23 point lead. I'm hesitant to call him good... hehe. Zero chance Shanny could have come back to ATL after that game.

Really? I mean sure, as a Patriots fan I am deeply appreciative of him calling two pass plays starting at 2nd and 11 on the Patriots 23 yard line with an 8 point lead and under 4 minutes left in the fourth quarter, BUT I don't think that wipes out what he did during the regular season and in the playoffs up to that point.

Not to mention the head coach has a responsibility to say, "um.. Kyle, Mix in a few runs."

Also the dubious call in that sequence was really just the second down pass. First down they ran (for -1 yards). The problem was that second down Tre Flowers made a great play and sacked Ryan for 12. Throwing on third and 23 is reasonably defensible.

El Guapo wrote:

morlac wrote:

El Guapo wrote:It's amazing that the 49ers can get anyone good when the organization is such a mess.

5 rushing attempts with a 23 point lead. I'm hesitant to call him good... hehe. Zero chance Shanny could have come back to ATL after that game.

Really? I mean sure, as a Patriots fan I am deeply appreciative of him calling two pass plays starting at 2nd and 11 on the Patriots 23 yard line with an 8 point lead and under 4 minutes left in the fourth quarter, BUT I don't think that wipes out what he did during the regular season and in the playoffs up to that point.

...hehe. Tongue in cheeck , take it easy. We don't play in that game without Shannahan getting us there. We also don't lose that game with better play calling by Shannahan. Both are equally true. He blew it. Live and learn.

Atlanta got in field goal range with passing, let's not forget that. That's why I don't really quibble with them not running it three times and kicking the field goal. That's wimpy football. You go with what got you there, and passing was working for them at that time.

That's why I still think it was a mental thing and not a play call thing. The QB can't take a sack then and there, that's priority number one. Ryan is the league MVP, you expect better play from a guy like that. Even allowing for the Patriots rush stepping up with a big play, if he tosses the ball away no harm is done. That's mental. A holding play is a huge buzzkill for an offense in any situation, at the tail end of a Super Bowl? That's a mental lapse. It's almost as bad as a turnover. That's just on that one sequence, most of the entire second half featured Atlanta mostly sleep walking their way to the end.

noxiousdog wrote:

El Guapo wrote:

morlac wrote:

El Guapo wrote:It's amazing that the 49ers can get anyone good when the organization is such a mess.

5 rushing attempts with a 23 point lead. I'm hesitant to call him good... hehe. Zero chance Shanny could have come back to ATL after that game.

Really? I mean sure, as a Patriots fan I am deeply appreciative of him calling two pass plays starting at 2nd and 11 on the Patriots 23 yard line with an 8 point lead and under 4 minutes left in the fourth quarter, BUT I don't think that wipes out what he did during the regular season and in the playoffs up to that point.

Not to mention the head coach has a responsibility to say, "um.. Kyle, Mix in a few runs."

I hear you and don't really disagree but that is not DQ. Part of what makes him great is his complete trust in his Coaching staff, players, etc. That would have been totally against the grain and out of character and completely undermined his whole mojo. Now, next time this happens he might sing a different tune but in the moment, it wasn't happening. I would have grabbed the clipboard (MS Surface!) outta his hand and backhanded him with it. That's just me though and I know nothing.

gameoverman wrote:Atlanta got in field goal range with passing, let's not forget that. That's why I don't really quibble with them not running it three times and kicking the field goal. That's wimpy football. You go with what got you there, and passing was working for them at that time.

That's why I still think it was a mental thing and not a play call thing. The QB can't take a sack then and there, that's priority number one. Ryan is the league MVP, you expect better play from a guy like that. Even allowing for the Patriots rush stepping up with a big play, if he tosses the ball away no harm is done. That's mental. A holding play is a huge buzzkill for an offense in any situation, at the tail end of a Super Bowl? That's a mental lapse. It's almost as bad as a turnover. That's just on that one sequence, most of the entire second half featured Atlanta mostly sleep walking their way to the end.

Well, in general I don't really have an issue with the low number of second half running plays, since as you say Atlanta is really good at passing, and because in general Shanahan and Quinn know this stuff much better than you or I.

However, the specific sequence of plays that you're referring to...that's harder to defend. You have to remember that the Falcons were at the New England 23 with less than four minutes left (IIRC the clock was at 3:45 or something) and were up by 8. They run the ball twice from 2nd at 11, figure you gain at least 1 or 2 yards each time (and maybe more - the Atlanta running game was pretty good overall in the game). Probably get to at least the 20. More importantly, the clock is either down to ~ 3 minutes, OR New England uses one or two timeouts. That's a pretty easy field goal at that point. Now you're up by 11 with a little over three minutes left...even with a golden god at quarterback, that's essentially impossible to overcome.

El Guapo wrote:

gameoverman wrote:Atlanta got in field goal range with passing, let's not forget that. That's why I don't really quibble with them not running it three times and kicking the field goal. That's wimpy football. You go with what got you there, and passing was working for them at that time.

That's why I still think it was a mental thing and not a play call thing. The QB can't take a sack then and there, that's priority number one. Ryan is the league MVP, you expect better play from a guy like that. Even allowing for the Patriots rush stepping up with a big play, if he tosses the ball away no harm is done. That's mental. A holding play is a huge buzzkill for an offense in any situation, at the tail end of a Super Bowl? That's a mental lapse. It's almost as bad as a turnover. That's just on that one sequence, most of the entire second half featured Atlanta mostly sleep walking their way to the end.

Well, in general I don't really have an issue with the low number of second half running plays, since as you say Atlanta is really good at passing, and because in general Shanahan and Quinn know this stuff much better than you or I.

However, the specific sequence of plays that you're referring to...that's harder to defend. You have to remember that the Falcons were at the New England 23 with less than four minutes left (IIRC the clock was at 3:45 or something) and were up by 8. They run the ball twice from 2nd at 11, figure you gain at least 1 or 2 yards each time (and maybe more - the Atlanta running game was pretty good overall in the game). Probably get to at least the 20. More importantly, the clock is either down to ~ 3 minutes, OR New England uses one or two timeouts. That's a pretty easy field goal at that point. Now you're up by 11 with a little over three minutes left...even with a golden god at quarterback, that's essentially impossible to overcome.

I'll also add:

That NE pass rush was getting better and better because they figured out we couldn't run up the middle at all with Alex Mack and he could barely pass block anymore by the 4th qtr on his fractured fibula and our starting RT got knocked out. That's a great reason NOT to call a 5 step drop right after that big pass play and take a sack. Also, the pressure up the middle on that big play was a part of what made it such a great pitch and catch to Julio. You just dodged a bullet with a miracle play and you test fate again with another pass play? That is either complete arrogance or total lack of situational awareness. Many coaches make the mistake of trying to 'prove' something against Belichick. As if just beating him is not enough. They fell for it and tried to get cute. It's a freaking Greek Tragedy and I wouldn't believe if I had not witnessed it.

Kyle was going to SF no matter what happened in the Super Bowl. That was widely reported in the two weeks before the game. However, after seeing his horrible play calling in the second half, I'm not going to miss him nearly as much as I thought I would.

Still, the Sarkisian hire is very interesting. It had been reported that Chip Kelly was their first choice, but they wanted him to keep Shanahan's offense, which was going to be a disaster, IMHO. And while I assume that Sarkisian will also be running Shanahan's offense, it is a curious hire. I always figured Atlanta would want to stick with Shanahan's offense, but I figured that the Falcons would promote someone on the offensive staff to become the new OC, or they would look for someone outside the organization that had experience running a similar offense. It almost seems like they were in a big hurry to sign someone right away and simply snatched Sarkisian out of left field...

El Guapo wrote:

gameoverman wrote:Atlanta got in field goal range with passing, let's not forget that. That's why I don't really quibble with them not running it three times and kicking the field goal. That's wimpy football. You go with what got you there, and passing was working for them at that time.

That's why I still think it was a mental thing and not a play call thing. The QB can't take a sack then and there, that's priority number one. Ryan is the league MVP, you expect better play from a guy like that. Even allowing for the Patriots rush stepping up with a big play, if he tosses the ball away no harm is done. That's mental. A holding play is a huge buzzkill for an offense in any situation, at the tail end of a Super Bowl? That's a mental lapse. It's almost as bad as a turnover. That's just on that one sequence, most of the entire second half featured Atlanta mostly sleep walking their way to the end.

Well, in general I don't really have an issue with the low number of second half running plays, since as you say Atlanta is really good at passing, and because in general Shanahan and Quinn know this stuff much better than you or I.

However, the specific sequence of plays that you're referring to...that's harder to defend. You have to remember that the Falcons were at the New England 23 with less than four minutes left (IIRC the clock was at 3:45 or something) and were up by 8. They run the ball twice from 2nd at 11, figure you gain at least 1 or 2 yards each time (and maybe more - the Atlanta running game was pretty good overall in the game). Probably get to at least the 20. More importantly, the clock is either down to ~ 3 minutes, OR New England uses one or two timeouts. That's a pretty easy field goal at that point. Now you're up by 11 with a little over three minutes left...even with a golden god at quarterback, that's essentially impossible to overcome.

I looked earlier today. Here's a good drive chart. I didn't want to analyze it again but I guess I can't resist.

Atlanta at 5:56 NWE ATL
S.Gostkowski kicks 62 yards from NE 35 to ATL 3. J.Hardy pushed ob at ATL 10 for 7 yards (J.Jones).
1st and 10 at ATL 10 (5:53) M.Ryan pass short left to D.Freeman to ATL 49 for 39 yards (E.Roberts).
1st and 10 at ATL 49 (5:18) D.Freeman right end to NE 49 for 2 yards (J.Sheard, P.Chung). ATL-R.Schraeder was injured during the play.
2nd and 8 at NE 49 (4:47) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass deep right to J.Jones to NE 22 for 27 yards.
1st and 10 at NE 22 (4:40) D.Freeman left end to NE 23 for -1 yards (D.McCourty).
2nd and 11 at NE 23 (3:56) (Shotgun) M.Ryan sacked at NE 35 for -12 yards (T.Flowers).
Timeout #1 by NE at 03:50.
3rd and 23 at NE 35 (3:50) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass short left to M.Sanu pushed ob at NE 26 for 9 yards (L.Ryan). PENALTY on ATL-J.Matthews, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NE 35 - No Play.
3rd and 33 at NE 45 (3:44) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete short left to T.Gabriel.
4th and 33 at NE 45 (3:38) M.Bosher punts 36 yards to NE 9, Center-J.Harris, fair catch by J.Edelman. (The Punt Hangtime was 4.31 seconds.)
ATL DRIVE TOTALS: 6 plays, 45 yards, 2:26

The pass to Julio happened at 4:47. They ran the ball at 4:40. So they get down the field and run the ball as quickly as they can. WTF? All told, Atlanta ran 6 plays and only took 2:26 off the clock. That's fine if you made the Patriots burn all their timeouts but they only took one.

You run the ball and the clock after that Julio catch (once you've run the play clock down to 2 seconds). Then you run it again. And you run it again. Bryant is a 91% field goal kicker inside the 40 with years of experience. He's not some rookie. You don't get cute. You don't worry about what got you there (and by the way, Atlanta was 5th in the NFL in rushing yards). You run the ball. I don't care if you have to pluck Jamaal Anderson out of the stands and trot him out there. I don't care if you have to sub Shanahan himself in at Center. You run the ball.

You know what the Patriots would have done in that same situation? Run the damn ball that's what. That's why they are super bowl champs.

Atlanta fired it's DC and D-line coach. Seems harsh.

stessier wrote:Atlanta fired it's DC and D-line coach. Seems harsh.

They are acting exactly like a one-and-done team who lost their one shot would act. Why build on the accomplishments (and perhaps win next time?) when you can flush the whole shebang down the shitter and try again in, say, another half-century?

EvilHomer3k wrote: The pass to Julio happened at 4:47. They ran the ball at 4:40. So they get down the field and run the ball as quickly as they can. WTF? All told, Atlanta ran 6 plays and only took 2:26 off the clock. That's fine if you made the Patriots burn all their timeouts but they only took one.

Ryan was continually snapping the ball with 10+ seconds on the game clock for no apparent reason.

As for running the ball, the Falcons got something like 97 yards on 14 rushes in the first half. In the 2nd half, when they were up by 20+ for most of the game, they ran the ball 5 times in total. That makes absolutely zero sense.

One thing that hasn't been discussed much, though, is the injury to Coleman. He was playing well and I believe that the play after he got injured was the play where Freeman missed the block, leading to the sack/force fumble on Ryan. Since it was 3rd down, it seems likely Coleman would've been in the game there instead of Freeman if he hadn't gotten hurt.

Jeff V wrote:

stessier wrote:Atlanta fired it's DC and D-line coach. Seems harsh.

They are acting exactly like a one-and-done team who lost their one shot would act. Why build on the accomplishments (and perhaps win next time?) when you can flush the whole shebang down the shitter and try again in, say, another half-century?

While that would be par for the course for the Falcons, it appears that Dan Quinn had been calling the defensive plays for at least half the season and so letting the DC go was a foregone conclusion. On the other hand, I'm not sure why they let Bryan Cox go, since the D-line seemed to be improving. But Quinn is a Defensive coach, so I'll trust his judgement for now.

Still, if you were a hot commodity, would you jump at the chance to go to a franchise that's willing to dump your ass even if you reach the Super Bowl? I suppose it's possible that an available hot commodity expressed interest in the job (kind how Maddon got to the Cubs despite the incumbent manager doing a decent job) and the team was just clearing the way. But this sounds more like they are creating scapegoats to explain their historic collapse.

Unless these coaches have a history of making bad decisions and learning nothing from the experience, the team is probably better off having consistency.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:

EvilHomer3k wrote: The pass to Julio happened at 4:47. They ran the ball at 4:40. So they get down the field and run the ball as quickly as they can. WTF? All told, Atlanta ran 6 plays and only took 2:26 off the clock. That's fine if you made the Patriots burn all their timeouts but they only took one.

Ryan was continually snapping the ball with 10+ seconds on the game clock for no apparent reason.

As for running the ball, the Falcons got something like 97 yards on 14 rushes in the first half. In the 2nd half, when they were up by 20+ for most of the game, they ran the ball 5 times in total. That makes absolutely zero sense.

It makes sense if you believe, as I do, that they thought the game was over man! If they are thinking "The rest of the game is just a formality" coming out of half time, then it all fits. Ryan didn't manage the game like he should have, not because of some weird unexplainable lapse, but because his head wasn't in the game. He was just marking time until it was official that they won. They didn't run off every last second because in that frame of mind running off time is unnecessary, it's not even a thought in their heads. They have the game won, it's an insurmountable lead!

Is HTX used in reference to Houston a thing? It's on a ton of SB stuff and I'd never heard it before.

stessier wrote:Is HTX used in reference to Houston a thing? It's on a ton of SB stuff and I'd never heard it before.

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/get-ov ... te-8699928

stessier wrote:Is HTX used in reference to Houston a thing? It's on a ton of SB stuff and I'd never heard it before.

I've seen it also, I just assumed it was short for Houston, Texas.

Falcons: Uh, we just didn't want to go to the White House



Edit: One more - Patriots Arrive at Practice Facility for Two-a-Days

morlac wrote:I hear you and don't really disagree but that is not DQ. Part of what makes him great is his complete trust in his Coaching staff, players, etc. That would have been totally against the grain and out of character and completely undermined his whole mojo.

Apollo wrote:While that would be par for the course for the Falcons, it appears that Dan Quinn had been calling the defensive plays for at least half the season and so letting the DC go was a foregone conclusion.

You guys need to get on the same page here.

Schroedinger's Quinn.

ImLawBoy wrote:

morlac wrote:I hear you and don't really disagree but that is not DQ. Part of what makes him great is his complete trust in his Coaching staff, players, etc. That would have been totally against the grain and out of character and completely undermined his whole mojo.

Apollo wrote:While that would be par for the course for the Falcons, it appears that Dan Quinn had been calling the defensive plays for at least half the season and so letting the DC go was a foregone conclusion.

You guys need to get on the same page here.

Nope. The first scenario would be out of the blue in mid game and would have been completely reactionary and undermining (out of Character). The second was planned and discussed with the DC and entire coaching staff who all bought into the plan (thoroughly planned and discussed = in character). The DC was not fired originally and had been offered a different position within the organization. He did not accept it.

Jeff V wrote:

stessier wrote:Atlanta fired it's DC and D-line coach. Seems harsh.

They are acting exactly like a one-and-done team who lost their one shot would act. Why build on the accomplishments (and perhaps win next time?) when you can flush the whole shebang down the shitter and try again in, say, another half-century?

No they are not. They are acting like a team who is 5 weeks behind most of the others regarding their offseason moves. They also look like a team not willing to rest on the laurels and be satisfied with just blowing a Superbowl. 2 defensive coaches were let go and it's a flushing the whole thing down the toilet? haha ok. The DL coach was a holdover from previous regime and failed to develop the young lineman. The DC hadn't even been calling plays for the half the season. Neither of those were reactionary based on the SB. I'm sure blowing the lead helped make it easier but these decisions were already made and replacements planned before the SB.

morlac wrote:

ImLawBoy wrote:

morlac wrote:I hear you and don't really disagree but that is not DQ. Part of what makes him great is his complete trust in his Coaching staff, players, etc. That would have been totally against the grain and out of character and completely undermined his whole mojo.

Apollo wrote:While that would be par for the course for the Falcons, it appears that Dan Quinn had been calling the defensive plays for at least half the season and so letting the DC go was a foregone conclusion.

You guys need to get on the same page here.

Nope. The first scenario would be out of the blue in mid game and would have been completely reactionary and undermining (out of Character). The second was planned and discussed with the DC and entire coaching staff who all bought into the plan (thoroughly planned and discussed = in character). The DC was not fired originally and had been offered a different position within the organization. He did not accept it.

Got it. He has complete trust in his coaching staff during games, but in between games he's totally fine with undermining them.

(Just giving you a hard time here. No ill will intended.)