Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

[The Meal]

I’m excited and happy for you!

[GreenGoo]

I’m excited and happy for you!

Thanks Meal! It is pretty exciting. Wife took it to work last night. I'm just waiting for the first parking lot catastrophe now.

I need to spend some time with the manual, although youtube videos have already taught me more about the car than the salesman knew.

[Kurth]

Ta da!

I think the EV6 is a total looker. Love the lines of that car. I think they knocked it out of the part from a design standpoint. There’s one around the block from me that I’ve pointed out repeatedly to my wife, but, for some reason I don’t get, she’s not a fan. Funny side note: We call that street “EV Alley” - There are probably 24 homes in this small horseshoe road, and I shit you not, every one of them has an EV. Some have 2. There are 5 Rivian R1/R1S. One house has a new R1S and a Tesla Model X in the driveway. It’s just odd because those are pretty expensive cars, and it’s not an incredibly expensive street - very nice, but not R1S plus an X in the driveway nice.

Anyway, good luck with the EV6, GG. I hope that car turns out to be as awesome as it looks!

[Kurth]

Can someone explain to me “Time of Day” pricing and whether I need to be enrolled in that?

My Chargepoint app gives me an approximate cost of my charging sessions, but I’m not sure it’s accurate because I haven’t enrolled in PGE’s “Time of Day” program, which lowers costs in non-peak hours (5PM-9PM).

We’ve got 2 EVs now, our Tesla Y and our daughter’s Kona. Our house has 2 central AC units and we burn a lot of energy in the summer on AC, especially from 5-9PM when it’s really freaking hot out here in Oregon (unlike the East Coast). I’m thinking the energy we dump into the EVs charging on non-peak hours will make up for the amount we spend on the AC during peak hours in the summer, but I’m not sure. Any thoughts?

[Zaxxon]

It really depends on the specifics of the TOU plan you have. Out here and with our solar PV, it’s a no-brainer—we dump into the grid during the highest rate time (and get paid retail for it) and pull our big usage at the lowest rates overnight.

[Kurth]

It really depends on the specifics of the TOU plan you have. Out here and with our solar PV, it’s a no-brainer—we dump into the grid during the highest rate time (and get paid retail for it) and pull our big usage at the lowest rates overnight.

Ok. I’ve changed to Time of Day billing. The rates are:
- 8.39 cents per kWh 9PM-7AM weekdays
- 15.77 cents per kWh 7Am-5PM weekdays
- 41.11 cents per kWh 5PM-9PM weekdays

All weekends and holidays are off-peak (8.39 cents per KWh).

We’ll see how this goes.

[Zaxxon]

That peak rate is killer. I forget--do you have solar? It's easy enough to avoid charging cars during that window, but cooking / laundry are the big-ish loads that tend to hit for us in that window. DIshwashing is another that's easy to 'start' on a delay and let it run overnight.

[stessier]

What was the standard (not Time of Use) rate? That 5-9pm rate seems brutal.

[Isgrimnur]

[Kurth]

Standard rates are:

A residential customer PGE and a small business PGE are typically on basic service plans that include costs for: Basic Charge, Transmission Charge, Distribution Charge, Energy Charge, and required adjustments. When all charges and adjustments are combined, the average cents per kWh will be: Residential Customer: 19.95¢ per kWh

Before I signed up, they did a year-over-year comparison, taking what I actually spent last year and comparing it to what I would have spent if we were on the Time of Use pricing plan. The outcome was that we would have saved $155 over the course of the year. But that was before we had 2 EVs and a level 2 charger at home. I'm figuring that with the additional use we'll have from the EVs plus being a little more conscientious about shifting usage to non-peak hours, that $155 savings should be much more substantial.

Worse comes to worse, in the first year, you can change at any time. Also, if you end up spending 10% more than you would have on the Basic plan with standard rates, they refund you the difference.

Seems like a no-lose situation.

Also, no solar, although I really wish I had it. The OR sun is powerful, and we've got a great roof on the back of the house for it. My wife is vehemently against it for aesthetic reasons, which really bums me out.

Also, charged the Tesla last night and got 180 miles for just under $4. That's less than half of what we were paying before.

[Kurth]

That peak rate is killer. I forget--do you have solar? It's easy enough to avoid charging cars during that window, but cooking / laundry are the big-ish loads that tend to hit for us in that window. DIshwashing is another that's easy to 'start' on a delay and let it run overnight.

No solar. Laundry is a big load but one we can hopefully time-shift. Same with dishwashing as you point out. Cooking isn't a big deal because we're on gas. Our big kitchen drains are probably our old (2007) refrigerators (we have one in the kitchen and one in the garage) and freezer chest. The fridge in the kitchen is probably on its last legs though, so a more energy efficient model is likely in our future. Kind of funny how I'm looking at that as a way to save money when the new fridge will likely run 10K or more!

[Zaxxon]

Standard rates are:

A residential customer PGE and a small business PGE are typically on basic service plans that include costs for: Basic Charge, Transmission Charge, Distribution Charge, Energy Charge, and required adjustments. When all charges and adjustments are combined, the average cents per kWh will be: Residential Customer: 19.95¢ per kWh

Ah, so your normal rates are around double what ours are here in CO, so the TOU peak rate isn't as crazy as it first looked (though on another level is is still crazy--that's more than the rate at most Superchargers)! Nice that they could run that comparison for you, as like you said if you were already likely to save some positive amount of money, adding the cars and scheduling solely night-time charging and changing nothing else means you will automatically save significantly more.

The fridge in the kitchen is probably on its last legs though, so a more energy efficient model is likely in our future. Kind of funny how I'm looking at that as a way to save money when the new fridge will likely run 10K or more!

Jeebus! We bought a new fridge last year, and I think it's pretty nice. Could buy 4 of them for that price. . You might check with your power co on fridge rebates, though. Ours gives a reasonable amount for upgrading very old models.

Does your wife enjoy free money? Because adding panels is free money if you'll be there long enough. Esp if it's going on the back of the house, what's the aesthetic complaint? Does she often sunbathe on the roof?

[GreenGoo]

I think the EV6 is a total looker. Love the lines of that car. I think they knocked it out of the part from a design standpoint. There’s one around the block from me that I’ve pointed out repeatedly to my wife, but, for some reason I don’t get, she’s not a fan. Funny side note: We call that street “EV Alley” - There are probably 24 homes in this small horseshoe road, and I shit you not, every one of them has an EV. Some have 2. There are 5 Rivian R1/R1S. One house has a new R1S and a Tesla Model X in the driveway. It’s just odd because those are pretty expensive cars, and it’s not an incredibly expensive street - very nice, but not R1S plus an X in the driveway nice.

Anyway, good luck with the EV6, GG. I hope that car turns out to be as awesome as it looks!

Thanks Kurth. Despite me constantly claiming that all crossover SUV's look exactly the same in profile, I do agree that the EV6 is a good looking car and am very pleased with its appearance. The trim we purchased only came in 4 colours, which is probably my only disappointment, as none of the colours (black, white, red, blue) really grabbed me. The top of the line trim has a steel grey matte version that is really beautiful imo. Oh well.

I don't drive much so I don't expect to have any interesting AAR's. I will say that I took my daughter to a nearby 50kw charger so we learned how to charge it together (she now knows more than her mom). Was relatively painless. Had to download the app once we were there (for some reason I thought it might just take a credit card) but after that it was smooth sailing. About 20% in 30 mins.

Oddly, we lost a bunch of cabin settings (seat memory settings, radio channels, etc, etc) after charging. Not sure what I did to cause that to happen, but it was disconcerting. Was like the battery was disconnected. Strange.

Anyway, feels amazing to drive, and with all the gizmos and doohickies, I feel like I'm driving something fancy, especially after 15+ years of driving the Odyssey workhorse. I've even gotten a few looks, which surprised me, because like I mentioned earlier, I find most crossover SUVs to be nearly identical in looks, except for small differences. I.e. this car looks like every other car out there (except slightly nicer, because I own it )

There are a LOT of Teslas in my city, I'm noticing. That's pretty cool. Because it means even more EVs in total. I like to see that.

[Zaxxon]

I don't drive much so I don't expect to have any interesting AAR's. I will say that I took my daughter to a nearby 50kw charger so we learned how to charge it together (she now knows more than her mom). Was relatively painless. Had to download the app once we were there (for some reason I thought it might just take a credit card) but after that it was smooth sailing. About 20% in 30 mins.

There are some public chargers that will take a card (Electrify America, for one major network), but I think fast-charging is one case where having the apps is helpful. You can track costs, speed, etc. Of course you can also do some of this in your car's app, but I find the Chargepoint and EA apps useful to have even if it does require setting up an account with each.

even more EVs in total. I like to see that.

Ditto. The number of Teslas around here has reached ludicrious levels--I no longer count how many Teslas I see on a drive; instead, I count about how many cars I see between Teslas (it's a low number). But I am also seeing a ton more Rivians, Ioniqs, EV9s, Volvo BEVs, etc. It's awesome. Granted, Colorado is not a typical state given our generous state EV subsidy which is going on a decade old now. But it's great. The next step-change will be when I can count how many BEVs I need to see before a gas car pops in. That one's gonna take awhile.

[Carpet_pissr]

I don't drive much so I don't expect to have any interesting AAR's. I will say that I took my daughter to a nearby 50kw charger so we learned how to charge it together (she now knows more than her mom). Was relatively painless. Had to download the app once we were there (for some reason I thought it might just take a credit card) but after that it was smooth sailing. About 20% in 30 mins.

There are some public chargers that will take a card (Electrify America, for one major network), but I think fast-charging is one case where having the apps is helpful. You can track costs, speed, etc. Of course you can also do some of this in your car's app, but I find the Chargepoint and EA apps useful to have even if it does require setting up an account with each.

even more EVs in total. I like to see that.

Ditto. The number of Teslas around here has reached ludicrious levels--I no longer count how many Teslas I see on a drive; instead, I count about how many cars I see between Teslas (it's a low number). But I am also seeing a ton more Rivians, Ioniqs, EV9s, Volvo BEVs, etc. It's awesome. Granted, Colorado is not a typical state given our generous state EV subsidy which is going on a decade old now. But it's great. The next step-change will be when I can count how many BEVs I need to see before a gas car pops in. That one's gonna take awhile.

You're seeing a lot of EV-9's there? I think I have only seen one in the wild so far, was wondering how they were selling.

I also think there are a crap-ton of Tesla's because of that deal that Tesla made with Uber drivers. On a recent Uber ride, I remember mentioning the number of Tesla's around us (can't remember where I was), and the guy said "80% of those are Uber drivers".

[Zaxxon]

You're seeing a lot of EV-9's there? I think I have only seen one in the wild so far, was wondering how they were selling.

I also think there are a crap-ton of Tesla's because of that deal that Tesla made with Uber drivers. On a recent Uber ride, I remember mentioning the number of Tesla's around us (can't remember where I was), and the guy said "80% of those are Uber drivers".

Here in CO it's definitely partially due to the extra $5k off of any BEV. And the Teslas are not Ubers around here (at least not predominantly). Everyone just owns a frickin' Tesla at this point.

[Kraken]

Ditto. The number of Teslas around here has reached ludicrious levels--I no longer count how many Teslas I see on a drive; instead, I count about how many cars I see between Teslas (it's a low number). But I am also seeing a ton more Rivians, Ioniqs, EV9s, Volvo BEVs, etc. It's awesome. Granted, Colorado is not a typical state given our generous state EV subsidy which is going on a decade old now. But it's great. The next step-change will be when I can count how many BEVs I need to see before a gas car pops in. That one's gonna take awhile.

After reading this I counted cars on my way home from the grocery store today. Out of 89 cars that I passed, one was a Tesla. I wouldn't recognize any other EVs. I had thought Teslas might comprise 5% of the vehicles on the road, but not on that stretch of road today.

[Zaxxon]

Ditto. The number of Teslas around here has reached ludicrious levels--I no longer count how many Teslas I see on a drive; instead, I count about how many cars I see between Teslas (it's a low number). But I am also seeing a ton more Rivians, Ioniqs, EV9s, Volvo BEVs, etc. It's awesome. Granted, Colorado is not a typical state given our generous state EV subsidy which is going on a decade old now. But it's great. The next step-change will be when I can count how many BEVs I need to see before a gas car pops in. That one's gonna take awhile.

After reading this I counted cars on my way home from the grocery store today. Out of 89 cars that I passed, one was a Tesla. I wouldn't recognize any other EVs. I had thought Teslas might comprise 5% of the vehicles on the road, but not on that stretch of road today.

After making that post, I was also on count alert. I counted seven waiting at one intersection yesterday afternoon. Don't think I got beyond a dozen cars without an EV at any point yesterday. It really is something else (I'm in a BEV-friendly state, in a big metro area which will also boost #s, and in a relatively well-off area of that metro area). I know it's not representative in general; it's just crazy to see.

[Grifman]

It’s really funny how some people are so opposed to EV’s. I’ve got one friend on FB that consistently posts negative memes about EV’s, some of which are true (for now), some of which are exaggerations built around a kernel of truth, some of which are outright false. He’s totally ignorant of the many advances coming in the near future that are going to do away with many of his complaints. It really is like a guy arguing against cars in favor of horses when autos were just getting to be popular.

[Zaxxon]

It’s really funny how some people are so opposed to EV’s. I’ve got one friend on FB that consistently posts negative memes about EV’s, some of which are true (for now), some of which are exaggerations built around a kernel of truth, some of which are outright false. He’s totally ignorant of the many advances coming in the near future that are going to do away with many of his complaints. It really is like a guy arguing against cars in favor of horses when autos were just getting to be popular.

The range of negative stuff I've heard over the years is vast--from fears of being stranded because there's a traffic jam to how terrible the battery materials are (and 0% recyclable!) to cancer from the EMF while driving.

[Kraken]

It’s really funny how some people are so opposed to EV’s. I’ve got one friend on FB that consistently posts negative memes about EV’s, some of which are true (for now), some of which are exaggerations built around a kernel of truth, some of which are outright false. He’s totally ignorant of the many advances coming in the near future that are going to do away with many of his complaints. It really is like a guy arguing against cars in favor of horses when autos were just getting to be popular.

The range of negative stuff I've heard over the years is vast--from fears of being stranded because there's a traffic jam to how terrible the battery materials are (and 0% recyclable!) to cancer from the EMF while driving.

Attitudes split pretty sharply along party lines. Guess which party opposes EVs. In addition to what you mentioned, the main objection I routinely see is exploding batteries. Statistically ICE engines catch fire much more frequently than battery packs, but mere facts can't dispel tribal beliefs.

[stessier]

FWIW, they don't explode - they just burn long and hot (when there is an issue, which is quite rare).

[Zaxxon]

FWIW, they don't explode - they just burn long and hot (when there is an issue, which is quite rare).

They also typically give you a nice warning and time to exit the vehicle safely, which is very polite vs gasoline tanks.

[GreenGoo]

My wife finally went on a "groceries" trip with the EV6. I say "groceries" because she never made it to the grocery store. She was gone for hours and went to costco, pet store, canadian tire, etc, etc. The car was pretty packed, although the passenger seat was still empty

I don't think she returned because the car was full, I think she returned because she was gone for so long. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll ask.

I have yet to ask her what she thinks about it, and we still have the van for now if she would prefer that, but it looked pretty good to me. There was a LOT of stuff to bring in. Not as much as I've seen with the van, but that's a freakin' van, so the yardstick is whether there was enough room, not whether it could pack more in than the van, obviously.

I'll chime in when I've heard how she felt about the trip.

I love driving the car. It's amazing/fun!

edit: Ok, spoke with her. She's mostly satisfied with the size of the car. She'd like a little more room but she knows that's not in the cards, so she's adjusting. She did come home before groceries because of how long she was out, not because the car was full. She did say (without my mentioning) that she probably could have fit the grocery order on the front seat and foot well.

She says she has her seat so far forward and elevated that she hits her head on the frame of the car. both the window frame and the sun visor. I don't understand it and will look at her seat position next time I'm in the car with her.

She says she's playing with the seat to find a position she likes that doesn't involve awkwardness. She's not particularly small or large, so I'm not sure what is going on, the seat design should be practically ideal for someone of her stature.

I'm comfortable, but I have the seat lowered all the way and tilted back a bit. My torso is a bit longer compared to my legs, so I don't have the actual seat very far back, just the backrest. It's quite comfortable with good screen visibility, so far. I did notice the AR was a little off so I'll need to adjust that at some point. It was showing a U turn route, and instead of a hooked arrow, I saw the base of the arrow indicating straight forward (the cut off by end of the AR area), then a second area pointing straight back. I.e. the curved part of the arrow was not visible, so it looked like 2 arrows pointing in opposite directions.

[GreenGoo]

So from what I'm reading, modern cars are data vacuums with zero restrictions on what data gets collected and who they can sell it to, which can be used to hurt you in a number different of ways.

Worse, I assume if I don't actually download and agree to the privacy policy, the car will collect as much data as it can without the app anyway.

Just by buying the car, you've agreed to give manufacturers every possible piece of data the car can manage to collect, with or without access to your phone.

Fuck me.

[Isgrimnur]

Privacy Policy

For calls or direct mail, you may opt out at myKiaConnect.ca or by calling 1-877-542-2886.

You also may write to us directly if you wish to: (a) ask that we not share your Information with third parties for marketing purposes; or (b) opt out or request that we cease sending you promotional or other information via calls, mail or email. Such written requests should be sent to our address below.
...
Please email us at consumer@kia.ca, call us at 1-877-542-2886, or write us at Kia Canada Inc., 180 Foster Crescent, Mississauga, Ontario, L5R 4J5 (where your file will be kept) if you have any questions about this Privacy Policy.

[GreenGoo]

How do I opt out of the app data collection? Can't start, condition the battery, or heat up the interior remotely without the app.

Plus, a snail mail letter? Seriously? My other option is a voice mail maze from hell followed by being on hold for 3 hours then mysteriously getting disconnected?

I'm guessing opting out of marketing does little to stop insurance companies from buying the data, call me cynical.

I'm going to investigate and will report back with my findings. According to privacy advocates, Kia is a particularly egregious data abuser.

[Kraken]

I saw what looked like a dumpster driving down the street today. Sure enough, it was a Cybertruck. Surprised me that anyone would have the poor judgment to actually buy one of those.

[Punisher]

Can someone explain what the big deal about data collection is?
Is it just a general "I don't want anyone to know about me"? Or are there practical issues.

[Zaxxon]

Can someone explain what the big deal about data collection is?
Is it just a general "I don't want anyone to know about me"? Or are there practical issues.

Largely that you can no longer easily do any of the criming.

[stessier]

I would also say there are privacy concerns around who they sell the information to as well. For instance, insurance companies can tell how you drive and deny coverage.

It should be noted that this is not unique to EVs - ICE vehicles do it as well.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, the criming comment was a joke (though it's also quite true these days, between phones & cars).

[mori]

I invested in HEVO awhile back. They are working on wireless charging of EVs. Their big recent announcement is that they partnered with a major auto manufacturer to aid in development. I was excited by the prospect as it might speed this up until I learned that the partner was Stellantis . I guess I lost that investment.

[Punisher]

I invested in HEVO awhile back. They are working on wireless charging of EVs. Their big recent announcement is that they partnered with a major auto manufacturer to aid in development. I was excited by the prospect as it might speed this up until I learned that the partner was Stellantis . I guess I lost that investment.

Nicola Tesla has entered the chat.

[mori]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/on ... fbce5&ei=5

Ramzan Kadyrov received his Tesla Cybertruck. Says he is sending to aid in the war effort against Ukraine . My guess it will be used for target practice.

[Kurth]

Does your wife enjoy free money? Because adding panels is free money if you'll be there long enough. Esp if it's going on the back of the house, what's the aesthetic complaint? Does she often sunbathe on the roof?

My wife does, in fact, like free money. Maybe even more than her aesthetic aversion to solar panels. On a walk around the neighborhood the other day, I pointed out how much sun the back of our house gets and that we could probably just put solar panels there and not mess with the front. She was interested . . .

So, if I were to go down the solar rabbit hole, where would you recommend I start? One thing I was thinking was that we were planning to put in a standby generator (we are on natural gas), which is a really expensive proposition. I’m thinking that the right combination of solar and a back-up battery solution might obviate that.

Thoughts?

[Zaxxon]

Absolutely do a battery/solar system instead. I would start by getting a Tesla quote (their site is really good for getting a rough estimate with incentives) and a local installer or two. Project Sunroof at Google is also a good starting point.

[gbasden]

Absolutely do a battery/solar system instead. I would start by getting a Tesla quote (their site is really good for getting a rough estimate with incentives) and a local installer or two. Project Sunroof at Google is also a good starting point.

Do you know who else plays in this space, if anyone? I would really like to look at a battery system for my solar, but I can't bring myself to support Musk in any way.

[naednek]

Absolutely do a battery/solar system instead. I would start by getting a Tesla quote (their site is really good for getting a rough estimate with incentives) and a local installer or two. Project Sunroof at Google is also a good starting point.

Do you know who else plays in this space, if anyone? I would really like to look at a battery system for my solar, but I can't bring myself to support Musk in any way.

I recently got solar and battery installed. Rec panels and enphase battery. I went with Solar Optimum. There's a referral program if you are interested. They don't apply a lot of pressure and was easy to work with.

[gbasden]

I recently got solar and battery installed. Rec panels and enphase battery. I went with Solar Optimum. There's a referral program if you are interested. They don't apply a lot of pressure and was easy to work with.

Absolutely! I would love to hear more about what you got and what you think of it. I'd love for someone to look at my 9 year old system and give me ideas about whether I could reasonably expand it as well.