Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:01 am

Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:01 pm Time is a flat circle. And full of selfish assholes.

Flat Time Society! IA Shubrubba! IA!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:52 am

Lil' update on what's cooking across America

https://twitter.com/DrAliSKhan/status/1 ... 9270373377

Prelude to winter? With exceptions, COVID cases are increasing in the Northeast with BA4.6 starting to make a move. Highest along Eastern seaboard with Region 7 exception. BA4.6 is pretty immune invasive & evades Evusheld preventive antibody. May be recombinant variant. New vax!

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:48 am

I read the above and then got my daily NYT email this morning, and it was all about COVID and boosters. Great timing, since I'm scheduled to get my bivalent booster (2nd one) later today. I'm not looking forward to it, since each time I've had a vaccine or a booster, I've been laid low for a solid day. But I'm glad I'm getting it now. I'm 48 (not quite 50 yet), it's been a while since my booster early last spring, and with a bunch of business and personal travel coming up, it feels like the time is right.

This pretty much synchs up with the guidance that's out there right now, so it's not a tough call for me.

Also, reading through the NYT piece today, the following data was striking:

It highlights just how few people are getting seriously ill - let alone facing death - from COVID today.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:19 am

Kurth wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:48 am It highlights just how few people are getting seriously ill - let alone facing death - from COVID today.

It's absolutely a triumph that we were able to significantly impact hospitalizations and death so quickly. That's also why it's so frustrating to see ~300-500 people a week dying from vaccine preventable disease. Sure, some of them were vaccinated, but broadly...still frustrating.

And I know I'm a broken record on this, but it's not just about death. Initially? Sure. The Long Covid element is still unclear and I'm not sure we're going to get answers anytime soon. I had someone ask me when I was going to stop stressing about all this and I think my answer is now connected to Long Covid. Namely, identifying exactly what it is, who's at greatest risk and figuring out how to treat it (if possible).

If the final outcome of all this is that deaths have been reduced to an additional ~100K a year but 7.5% of the American population suffers from a virus-related chronic outcome (stroke, organ damage, respiratory issues, neurological damage, etc...) then we're in trouble.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:30 am

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:19 am
Kurth wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:48 am It highlights just how few people are getting seriously ill - let alone facing death - from COVID today.
And I know I'm a broken record on this, but it's not just about death. Initially? Sure. The Long Covid element is still unclear and I'm not sure we're going to get answers anytime soon. I had someone ask me when I was going to stop stressing about all this and I think my answer is now connected to Long Covid. Namely, identifying exactly what it is, who's at greatest risk and figuring out how to treat it (if possible).

If that's the case, smoove, I'm afraid you may never stop stressing about COVID. The more I read about "Long Covid," the more it seems to my untrained self that it's a large, nebulous penumbra of disassociated symptoms and conditions that certainly may be tied back to a COVID infection, but establishing that is going to be incredibly difficult (if not impossible). From what I've read, the most common "Long Covid" conditions are neurological. The CDC lists them as:

Difficulty thinking or concentrating (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
Headache.
Sleep problems.
Dizziness when you stand up (lightheadedness)
Pins-and-needles feelings.
Change in smell or taste.
Depression or anxiety.

Do you think there will ever be a time when we've been able to quantify these symptoms and credibly establish a direct causal connection to COVID? I mean, isn't it more likely that we'll be investigating and debating the impacts and nature of "Long Covid" well into the next decade if not beyond?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:39 am

I am hopeful we'll figure it out sooner than later, yes. Unlike a lot of other situations, we're in the thick of it (still) and (technically) have the ability to monitor what's happening in real time. From a research/epidemiological perspective it's the difference between a cohort vs a case-control study. One looks forward (as people with known exposures develop illness) and the other looks backward (trying to associate known condition was suspected past exposure). The best contemporary example I have is related to the workers and volunteers that were on the pile post 9/11. Being able to associate the development of cancer in them with that exposure helped (I think) with the ultimate medical and financial benefits provided to them and their families. If we did nothing after 9/11 to monitor them in real time and 10+ years later those same workers developed cancer, it would have been harder scientifically (and likely legally) to demonstrate that connection.

That's a bit of a ramble, but I think given the shorter latency period between Covid illness and the emergence of chronic (symptoms that exist 3+ months after recovery) illness there's a good chance we can dial in on exactly what's happening. Is the virus hiding in tissue (like herpes?) or are there viral waste products that aren't being cleared from the blood or lymph nodes? Is there some kind of specific damage that's occurring in tissues that we can protect or rehabilitate with medications or therapies in the short-term to reduce risk 10+ years later? Hope!

I don't have any specific insider info here, but I'm hoping there's more definitive information over the next 2-3 years. That still sucks for people that have it, but if it's something that is a risk for kids and they'd be suffering for 50+ years as a result, there's hope at least we can address it.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:02 pm

from what i heard, the top three candidates for ME/CFS (which 'long COVID' is)

1) haywire autoimmune response
2) remnant viral loads
3) micro bloodclots

combined with underlying risk factors (a multitude of pre-existing health conditions and even genetics, as well as previous viral infections from the likes of Epstein-Barr and such)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID#Causes

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:10 pm

Short of death, I'm not that worried about the immediate experience of being sick with COVID. Sickness and pain suck. Hospitals suck. But all are temporary things, and things I've survived before. I'm more worried about what the remaining years of my life are going to be like.

Maybe Long COVID isn't what we think it is. Maybe we'll find that it's temporary, too. Maybe we'll find a 'cure'. Or maybe we won't, and it really is going to have me barely functional for the remaining 20-40 years of my life. We just don't know.

And if we don't know, how foolish would I have to be to completely disregard it? It's not a guarantee, but it is, without question, a risk, and one where being wrong could destroy my life and my dreams. We're not talking about shutting down the country here, but basic precautions that are nothing but a minor inconvenience? Hey, do you. But you'll have to forgive me if I think that the cost/risk balance is pretty heavy in favor of getting a shot and putting on a damned mask.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:39 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:10 pm Short of death, I'm not that worried about the immediate experience of being sick with COVID. Sickness and pain suck. Hospitals suck. But all are temporary things, and things I've survived before. I'm more worried about what the remaining years of my life are going to be like.

Maybe Long COVID isn't what we think it is. Maybe we'll find that it's temporary, too. Maybe we'll find a 'cure'. Or maybe we won't, and it really is going to have me barely functional for the remaining 20-40 years of my life. We just don't know.

And if we don't know, how foolish would I have to be to completely disregard it? It's not a guarantee, but it is, without question, a risk, and one where being wrong could destroy my life and my dreams. We're not talking about shutting down the country here, but basic precautions that are nothing but a minor inconvenience? Hey, do you. But you'll have to forgive me if I think that the cost/risk balance is pretty heavy in favor of getting a shot and putting on a damned mask.

+1

That's pretty much where my head is at too.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:49 pm

Max Peck wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:39 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:10 pm Short of death, I'm not that worried about the immediate experience of being sick with COVID. Sickness and pain suck. Hospitals suck. But all are temporary things, and things I've survived before. I'm more worried about what the remaining years of my life are going to be like.

Maybe Long COVID isn't what we think it is. Maybe we'll find that it's temporary, too. Maybe we'll find a 'cure'. Or maybe we won't, and it really is going to have me barely functional for the remaining 20-40 years of my life. We just don't know.

And if we don't know, how foolish would I have to be to completely disregard it? It's not a guarantee, but it is, without question, a risk, and one where being wrong could destroy my life and my dreams. We're not talking about shutting down the country here, but basic precautions that are nothing but a minor inconvenience? Hey, do you. But you'll have to forgive me if I think that the cost/risk balance is pretty heavy in favor of getting a shot and putting on a damned mask.
+1

That's pretty much where my head is at too.

+1

Same here.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:07 pm

I think everyone knows where I fall.

Here you go MA OOers -- we're still watching your waste water and it's telling us something

https://twitter.com/jonlevyBU/status/15 ... 9451000833

MA COVID wastewater levels took a big jump in recent days - no state case/hospitalization reports since Thurs given weekly state reporting. But it’s clear that we are on a rapid upswing. Plan accordingly.

Still amazing to me how amazingly useful this turned out to be. Useful in terms of data collection. How that data is used? Maybe not so much.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:14 am

I can understand if there are people that are against vaccine because they don't trust it but I can't understand people that are against wearing masks to prevent COVID-19.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:35 am

Victoria Raverna wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:14 am I can understand if there are people that are against vaccine because they don't trust it but I can't understand people that are against wearing masks to prevent COVID-19.

I’m in exactly the opposite camp.

And that’s from someone who got his fourth shot (bivalent booster) this evening and is certain to feel like death warmed over any minute now and through most of the next day.

It’s not that the vax or boosters are without a cost (one I’m also privileged enough to bear while taking a paid sick day if I have to), but they are short term and seem far more bearable to me than perpetually masking up and social distancing.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:46 am

Kurth wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:35 am It’s not that the vax or boosters are without a cost (one I’m also privileged enough to bear while taking a paid sick day if I have to), but they are short term and seem far more bearable to me than perpetually masking up and social distancing.

We're drifting into the other thread here, but how do you feel about mandating masking in places where people need to be? Ignoring work (which is a giant, gaping hole), what about places like doctor's offices, post office, supermarkets, banks, mass transit and arguably schools? Here I'm focusing on places that people don't have a choice but to go in order to conduct business or they're legally required to be present (like school or a courtroom).

Again, moving away from "perpetually masking everywhere" to making sure we're focusing on places and areas that at-risk people need to be.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:11 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:46 am
Kurth wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:35 am It’s not that the vax or boosters are without a cost (one I’m also privileged enough to bear while taking a paid sick day if I have to), but they are short term and seem far more bearable to me than perpetually masking up and social distancing.
We're drifting into the other thread here, but how do you feel about mandating masking in places where people need to be? Ignoring work (which is a giant, gaping hole), what about places like doctor's offices, post office, supermarkets, banks, mass transit and arguably schools? Here I'm focusing on places that people don't have a choice but to go in order to conduct business or they're legally required to be present (like school or a courtroom).

Again, moving away from "perpetually masking everywhere" to making sure we're focusing on places and areas that at-risk people need to be.

Doctors’ offices make sense to me. Most people hopefully don’t have to spend an inordinate amount of time there, and the people who are there have a much higher likelihood of being at risk due to health issues. It seems like a mandate that strikes a common sense balance.

The other places, not so much, with the caveat that it really depends on how COVID is impacting an area. If we were to see hospitalizations trending up in a meaningful way, that would probably change my calculus.

As an aside, I’m now 4/4. Got the booster last night at 6:30, went to bed at 12, woke up at 2 achy and shivery. Slept like shit last night and feel just as bad now. If this runs like the prior shots, I should feel much better by this evening. But this is not pleasant.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:15 pm

Being mindful of the Mass. wastewater data, I wore a mask to the grocery store today for the first time since I recovered from covid in July. Almost nobody else was masked, but the store's pretty deserted on Thursday afternoons so it probably made next-to-no difference anyway.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:53 am

Pandemic reporting has officially broken Ed Yong.

https://twitter.com/edyong209/status/15 ... 5129180160

He's left us all with one more for Smoove.

The Pandemic’s Legacy Is Already Clear - All of this will happen again.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:56 am

I would also like to take a sabbatical, so yeah - I feel it Mr. Yong. This quote is one I should print out and hang around my neck:

Things have undoubtedly improved since the peak of the crisis, but calling the pandemic “over” is like calling a fight “finished” because your opponent is punching you in the ribs instead of the face.

I do think he's correct, and his observation is likely what's been eating at me (and my peers) this whole time - a realization that not only is the current effort FUBAR but all indications point toward nothing changing in the bigger picture; it will indeed all happen again and we're going to let it. It's making my area of knowledge seem completely useless - because it's pretty clear now that when pressed, we're not going to do the right thing.

A rather prominent public health figure was chased off Twitter last night, so it's been a rough 12 hours. It's also reinforced just how horrific social media is, especially for Covid-19 related discussions. After 2.5+ years it's now worse, not better.

EDIT: Regardless, from deep (so deep) in his thread (above) he provides this gem:

Mariame Kaba: “Hope is a discipline.”
Paul Farmer: “You fight the long defeat.”
James Stockdale: Combine “the need for absolute, unwavering faith that you can prevail” with “the discipline to begin by confronting the brutal facts.”
These are my touchstones.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:46 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:56 am I would also like to take a sabbatical, so yeah - I feel it Mr. Yong. This quote is one I should print out and hang around my neck:

Things have undoubtedly improved since the peak of the crisis, but calling the pandemic “over” is like calling a fight “finished” because your opponent is punching you in the ribs instead of the face.
I do think he's correct, and his observation is likely what's been eating at me (and my peers) this whole time - a realization that not only is the current effort FUBAR but all indications point toward nothing changing in the bigger picture; it will indeed all happen again and we're going to let it. It's making my area of knowledge seem completely useless - because it's pretty clear now that when pressed, we're not going to do the right thing.

A rather prominent public health figure was chased off Twitter last night, so it's been a rough 12 hours. It's also reinforced just how horrific social media is, especially for Covid-19 related discussions. After 2.5+ years it's now worse, not better.

EDIT: Regardless, from deep (so deep) in his thread (above) he provides this gem:

Mariame Kaba: “Hope is a discipline.”
Paul Farmer: “You fight the long defeat.”
James Stockdale: Combine “the need for absolute, unwavering faith that you can prevail” with “the discipline to begin by confronting the brutal facts.”
These are my touchstones.

I know we're not always on the same page with this stuff, but I do feel for you and others in your profession. I can only imagine how frustrating this has all been. That said, I don't think you can take our COVID response -- which has absolutely been FUBAR by any sane and rational review -- and apply that generally to come to the conclusion that your area of knowledge now seems "completely useless."

From my perspective, COVID seems like a perfect storm. Very dangerous for some, but generally mild for most. Incredibly contagious and difficult to contain. Sometimes symptomatic, sometimes not. I'm sure there are a dozen other factors that make COVID such a difficult challenge from an infectious disease perspective, all of which are apparent to you. But, in the end, when for the vast majority of people, the biggest impacts of a disease are the measures taken to try to combat the disease, isn't it always going to be a difficult task to come up with an effective approach?

Anyway, my point is just to suggest that maybe you shouldn't take the view that our failures in the face of COVID mean that effectively responding to other infectious disease is going to be impossible in the future.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:01 pm

It's definitely a perfect storm, but the impacts are significant.

Kurth wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:46 pm
Anyway, my point is just to suggest that maybe you shouldn't take the view that our failures in the face of COVID mean that effectively responding to other infectious disease is going to be impossible in the future.

This is the most current article I could quickly find from a general news organization:

Mounting legal challenges to pandemic public health rules — and judges’ increasing willingness to overrule medical experts — threaten to erode the influence of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other government health authorities.

In the last year, four court rulings against the CDC, including one from the Supreme Court, have forced the agency to stop or change its pandemic mitigation orders. Most recently, a Florida district judge ordered a national injunction ending the agency’s mask mandate on public transport.

“Litigation invites litigation invites litigation,” said Wendy Parmet, faculty co-director at the Center for Health Policy and Law at Northeastern University. It’s a cycle that “creates enormous uncertainty about what CDC could do going forward should the pandemic worsen again, or should another pandemic or even a more regional outbreak arise.”

The high-profile challenges to the CDC sit atop thousands more lawsuits against state and local health authorities that have been filed during the pandemic, experts say, seeking to end localized social distancing and mask orders, vaccine mandates and business closures.

I'd need to check but there are currently 30+ states that have pending legislation or are proposing legislation to limit, curb or completely remove public health authority. I've been part of a few (thankfully) outbreak investigations (waaaaaaaaay smaller scale) and the changes that are being proposed elsewhere would effectively remove the tools we've been using for close to a century, possibly longer in some cases. I don't even know how to adequately describe it, perhaps. But if (for example) there's a disease outbreak in 2024 involving multiple communities and new laws now prohibit me from contact tracing, they've effectively removed my ability to stop the disease from spreading and making it worse - things public health professionals are tasked with doing via laws and regulations set at a state level (at least in my state and I'd presume in most).

States are also pushing back against vaccinations and vaccination mandates for all diseases, because freedom. Again, this unwinds public health progress for 5+ decades here in America; it's unthinkable.

Make no mistake, the perfect storm is going to have noticeable impact over the next decade in how public heath practice is performed. We were already on the ropes in 2019 with respect to 2+ decades of funding being cut. I am genuinely concerned for the profession overall as we stumble towards 2030.

EDIT: I guess to be clear, I do believe our laws and regulations likely need review and update; they were never designed to address a modern pandemic. However, I fear the pendulum is going to swing back severely in the other direction and collectively we'll be worse off.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:07 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:01 pm EDIT: I guess to be clear, I do believe our laws and regulations likely need review and update; they were never designed to address a modern pandemic.

Who needs a "modern" pandemic when we are about to bring back polio, measles and diphtheria? /sarcasm /not so much sarcasm

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:18 pm

Seriously. Once again, vaccines and the childhood vaccination programs are a victim of their own success. How naive I was when I thought the vaccination issue would be put to rest in the mid 2000s. It's without question worse now than it was in the years that followed Wakefield's study.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pm

"Wealth does not last beyond three generations"

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:23 pm

So, how are things looking during our first week of October:

The two subvariants of particular concern are known as BQ.1 and BQ.1.1, both off-shoots of the omicron variant BA.5 (but with several key changes.) Indeed, they seem able to evade many of the tools we have to defend against it, which could trigger a wave of hospitalizations, disabling victims with long COVID or death.

Also worrying are two other strains: one called BA.2.75.2, which seems to be spreading quickly in Singapore, India and regions of Europe; and XBB, which some research suggests is the most antibody-evasive strain tested, almost on the level of the SARS-CoV-1 virus (known then simply as "SARS") that caused an outbreak in 2003. This could make the new vaccines relatively useless (but still better than nothing.) Moreover, an outbreak caused by one of these highly drug- and antibody-resistant variants could be much worse due to many world governments performing far less testing and reduced public health surveillance compared to 2020 and 2021.

In the blink of an evolutionary eye, we've potentially made vaccines and medical therapies useless because of our "let it rip" philosophy. The virus is easily able to outpace whatever we're doing because we insist on letting it run experiment after experiment in our meatsacks, over and over again.

"The degree of immune escape and evasion is amazing right now, crazy," Yunlong Richard Cao, an immunologist at Peking University in Beijing, told Nature this week. Cao co-authored a paper, which has yet to be peer-reviewed, that seems to show previous infections by BA.5 and antibody drugs, including Evusheld and Bebtelovimab, aren't enough to stop a BQ.1 infection.

"Such rapid and simultaneous emergence of multiple variants with enormous growth advantages is unprecedented," Cao and his colleagues warned in the study. "These results suggest that current herd immunity and BA.5 vaccine boosters may not provide sufficiently broad protection against infection."

Meanwhile, BA.2.75.2, an offshoot of the Centaurus omicron subvariant, also shows stark ability to evade antibodies. While it isn't a big deal in the West yet, it is seemingly spreading quickly in India. Some research from Sweden, which also isn't yet peer reviewed but is in line with Cao's research, described BA.2.75.2 as "the most neutralisation resistant variant evaluated to date."

Thought this was also interesting:

Not only are variants changing, so are the symptoms. Recent reports from the U.K. suggest that a sore throat is now the dominant symptom of COVID infection, rather than fever or loss of smell.

"Fever and loss of smell are really rare now — so many old people may not think they've got COVID," Professor Tim Spector, co-founder of the Covid ZOE app, told The Independent. "They'd say it's a cold and not be tested."

/runs back into bunker

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:57 pm

If we breed it down to a level of a rhinovirus, is that a win?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:16 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:57 pm If we breed it down to a level of a rhinovirus, is that a win?

Sadly, that's where we're ultimately heading. However, I fear it'll be on a pile of dead and disabled people long before we get there. I was reading some infectious disease doctor's estimates over the weekend (because apparently that's how I relax now) that at our current pace we can expect a flu level of disease for COVID-19 (where it's killing ~30K a year) by 2030 or so. He was saying the issue is that we're acting like it's flu level now, but its 4X+ worse, which makes no sense.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:30 pm

So if fever is really rare now, and my daughter spiked a fever this am, that means I can hope it's not COVID?

Testing her tomorrow. Bday party scheduled for this weekend.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:33 pm

I think that's for the variants circulating in the UK and in India. For what we're seeing here in the U.S. that's still primarily BA.5, so I'd expect fever, sorry.

Hope you get good news.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:36 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:33 pm I think that's for the variants circulating in the UK and in India. For what we're seeing here in the U.S. that's still primarily BA.5, so I'd expect fever, sorry.

Hope you get good news.

Yeah, I figured as much.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:32 am

Daughter went to sleep-over camp with school last week. Yesterday we got a close contact notification from the school. "Wear a mask for 6 days, continue to got to school. It's all good, we just have to inform you due to some stupid rules or whatever. Also, we will provide you with self-tests to be administered yesterday and in 2 days. We should have the tests to you by next week "

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:39 am

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:33 pmHope you get good news.

Tested neg this am, and she's feeling much better. Fingers crossed.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:32 am Daughter went to sleep-over camp with school last week. Yesterday we got a close contact notification from the school. "Wear a mask for 6 days, continue to got to school. It's all good, we just have to inform you due to some stupid rules or whatever. Also, we will provide you with self-tests to be administered yesterday and in 2 days. We should have the tests to you by next week "

In a similar vein: Most Americans don’t plan to get a flu shot this season — lots of them say they’ll mask to avoid germs instead.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:42 am

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:39 amIn a similar vein: Most Americans don’t plan to get a flu shot this season — lots of them say they’ll mask to avoid germs instead.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

This is pretty much proof this is all a simulation. I mean COME ON.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:53 am

we will provide you with self-tests to be administered yesterday

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:45 pm

I got my flu shot when I got my bivalent booster. Probably a bit early in the season, but I'm 80% remote work.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:49 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:39 amIn a similar vein: Most Americans don’t plan to get a flu shot this season — lots of them say they’ll mask to avoid germs instead.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:00 pm

Not sure if you've all seen this new article in The Atlantic, but I wanted to quote one of the single most depressing things I've read in 2.5+ years:

In health departments, too, the workforce is threadbare. As local leaders tackle multiple infectious diseases at once, “it’s becoming a zero-sum game,” says Maria Sundaram, an epidemiologist at the Marshfield Clinic Research Institute.

...

“I have staff doing the jobs of three to five people,” she said. “We are in absolute crisis.” Staff have left to take positions as Amazon drivers, who “make so much more per hour.”

The whole article is great, but man...that was tough to read.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:07 am

Kurth wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:30 am
Difficulty thinking or concentrating (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
Headache.
Sleep problems.
Dizziness when you stand up (lightheadedness)
Pins-and-needles feelings.
Change in smell or taste.
Depression or anxiety.
Sooo... I have all of those except the last one. The headaches also aren't constant so not a big deal until they hit.
I know that long Covid was tossed around as a possible cause to all myedical issues (the kidney failure and strokes and everything else) bit no way to confirm it.
I have decided to just not believe in Covid anymore. If Disney has taught me anything it's that if you dont believe in something it disappears.
Noble prize here I come!

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:18 pm Seriously. Once again, vaccines and the childhood vaccination programs are a victim of their own success. How naive I was when I thought the vaccination issue would be put to rest in the mid 2000s. It's without question worse now than it was in the years that followed Wakefield's study.
It reminds me of that scene in Kindergarten Cop where the bad guy is in a pharmacy with his mom and the mom is getting meds for his son and he says something like "you gave me all that crap when I was a kid and I never even got sick" and the mom replies "why do you think you never got sick"
It also reminds me of IT. When you do the job right and nothing ever breaks it makes it look like you aren't needed.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:09 am

What type of staffs are those? I'm surprised Amazon's drivers "make so much more per hour" than workers in a research institute.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:58 am

Victoria Raverna wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:09 am What type of staffs are those? I'm surprised Amazon's drivers "make so much more per hour" than workers in a research institute.

It's more per hour - the staff is almost certainly salary, but work so much over 40 hours to get all the work done that their pay per hour is better at Amazon.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:12 am

Victoria Raverna wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:09 am What type of staffs are those? I'm surprised Amazon's drivers "make so much more per hour" than workers in a research institute.

What stessier said, but they're not researchers. These are front-line local public health officials. People with a license to practice public health in some specific capacity but working for the general public. Normally they're doing environmental inspections, complaint investigations, permit and review of health-related projects, health education, etc... but now they're doing all that PLUS anything COVID-19 related. The one week I had a major foodborne disease outbreak I worked somewhere around 25 extra hours on top of the regular 40 hour work week. My boss did the same. Now imagine doing that for 2.5+ years. Driving an Amazon delivery truck would be a vacation at that point.