The Hillary Clinton thread

[Unagi]

I do have to say, though, that I forgot the time when Al Franken came out against people having a say in their own governance. I could see that position coming back to bite him come election time, for sure.

What is this even about? Can't tell if this is real, or what...

[El Guapo]

I do have to say, though, that I forgot the time when Al Franken came out against people having a say in their own governance. I could see that position coming back to bite him come election time, for sure.

What is this even about? Can't tell if this is real, or what...

He seems to hate that people have a say in their own governing and wants them to know that only he knows what is good for them.

Where Mortis got that from...

Aside: we really need a "shrug" smilie (smiley?).

[LordMortis]

I do have to say, though, that I forgot the time when Al Franken came out against people having a say in their own governance. I could see that position coming back to bite him come election time, for sure.

Again, not the position. It's the behavior. Like I said, I honestly don't know his track record. Listening to him speak is maddening. It's the dislike I have of Bill Maher. I don't need that sort of condescension. So again.

I think his "problem" is mainly that he is both a professional political satirist and professional power broker. It's not a good combination.

[The Meal]

It's the dislike I have of Bill Maher. I don't need that sort of condescension.

That's me for Franken (the politician) as well. As a satirist, I'm cool with it. But representing the people? No way. Take that shit seriously, buddy. (In just about anything but comedians, I have a certain sincerity requirement. Franken is way off the charts on the wrong side.)

[GreenGoo]

It's a deep rooted dislike from back in my ultra-conservative days. But even though my political alignment has shifted considerably, the old feelings are still there. Similar to my disdain for Hillary. Falling out of love with the Republican party doesn't mean falling in love with the Democratic party. I still loathe a ton of left-wing pundits and politicians.

That's fair enough. But my surprise was just because Franken's politics as a whole aren't all that different from Hillary's. He's probably a little more to the left of her all told, but I still regard him as a center-left figure similar in political profile to Hillary.

Basically you don't have to like Hillary or anything, but adding Franken to the ticket shouldn't sway you much.

Franken's willingness to go to bat for individuals appears to be real and not political grandstanding. Which is a huge plus in my opinion. As far as governing, I don't have much of an opinion on him, but just as YK has a default negative reaction to him, I have a default positive one.

I despise Maher.

[El Guapo]

It's the dislike I have of Bill Maher. I don't need that sort of condescension.

That's me for Franken (the politician) as well. As a satirist, I'm cool with it. But representing the people? No way. Take that shit seriously, buddy. (In just about anything but comedians, I have a certain sincerity requirement. Franken is way off the charts on the wrong side.)

You (and Mortis) should spend some time on google looking up his track record. My suspicion is that 90% of your sense of Franken is from his career as a satirist (and his books).

[Kraken]

It's a deep rooted dislike from back in my ultra-conservative days. But even though my political alignment has shifted considerably, the old feelings are still there. Similar to my disdain for Hillary. Falling out of love with the Republican party doesn't mean falling in love with the Democratic party. I still loathe a ton of left-wing pundits and politicians.

Just out of idle curiosity, can you name a running mate who would incline you more kindly to Hillary? Leaving considerations of race, gender, home state, etc. aside in favor of personality and general reputation.

[The Meal]

It's the dislike I have of Bill Maher. I don't need that sort of condescension.

That's me for Franken (the politician) as well. As a satirist, I'm cool with it. But representing the people? No way. Take that shit seriously, buddy. (In just about anything but comedians, I have a certain sincerity requirement. Franken is way off the charts on the wrong side.)

You (and Mortis) should spend some time on google looking up his track record. My suspicion is that 90% of your sense of Franken is from his career as a satirist (and his books).

I agree.

[LordMortis]

My suspicion is that 90% of your sense of Franken is from his career as a satirist (and his books).

And now we more or less see eye to eye. I don't like the idea of a governing body satirizing and profiting from the people he is satirizing. I don't like when he stands on a political stage and mixes his satire with efforts to seriously govern. It makes him come off as a dick and as a philosopher king looking down on his pitiable subjects.

And then to make him more intolerable, his satire is used as serious political bumper stickers by the pitiable subjects who agree with him.

[hepcat]

I think it makes him infinitely more likeable. If you have a talent, use it. His talent is comedy. I don't get the feeling that he's being crass or overly insulting in that pursuit. Hell, from what I'm reading, he's been pretty low profile for the last decade or so.

[Pyperkub]

It's the dislike I have of Bill Maher. I don't need that sort of condescension.

That's me for Franken (the politician) as well. As a satirist, I'm cool with it. But representing the people? No way. Take that shit seriously, buddy. (In just about anything but comedians, I have a certain sincerity requirement. Franken is way off the charts on the wrong side.)

You (and Mortis) should spend some time on google looking up his track record. My suspicion is that 90% of your sense of Franken is from his career as a satirist (and his books).

Yeah, IMHO he's been one of the few Senators who actually seems to have a grasp of the technological issues we face in the 21st Century.

I'm really going to need concrete examples of what you're stating to evaluate your dislike here.

[Pyperkub]

It's a deep rooted dislike from back in my ultra-conservative days. But even though my political alignment has shifted considerably, the old feelings are still there. Similar to my disdain for Hillary. Falling out of love with the Republican party doesn't mean falling in love with the Democratic party. I still loathe a ton of left-wing pundits and politicians.

That's fair enough. But my surprise was just because Franken's politics as a whole aren't all that different from Hillary's. He's probably a little more to the left of her all told, but I still regard him as a center-left figure similar in political profile to Hillary.

Basically you don't have to like Hillary or anything, but adding Franken to the ticket shouldn't sway you much.

Franken is behaves like the stereotypical Plato's Gold Blooded Philosopher King. He seems to hate that people have a say in their own governing and wants them to know that only he knows what is good for them.

I honestly don't know his track record but he's a self promoter and a dick who talks but doesn't listen.

I think his "problem" is mainly that he is both a professional political satirist and professional power broker. It's not a good combination.

Going to need an example here - especially the "hates that people have a say" impression.

[LordMortis]

Going to need an example here - especially the "hates that people have a say" impression.

Don't have it. Sorry to disappoint you. It's a good thing I'm not trying to persuade you to dislike him.

[Unagi]

My suspicion is that 90% of your sense of Franken is from his career as a satirist (and his books).

And now we more or less see eye to eye. I don't like the idea of a governing body satirizing and profiting from the people he is satirizing. I don't like when he stands on a political stage and mixes his satire with efforts to seriously govern. It makes him come off as a dick and as a philosopher king looking down on his pitiable subjects.

And then to make him more intolerable, his satire is used as serious political bumper stickers by the pitiable subjects who agree with him.

I've not seen this stuff at all. Is this stuff you have seen or just picture him doing.

[Unagi]

Going to need an example here - especially the "hates that people have a say" impression.

Don't have it. Sorry to disappoint you. It's a good thing I'm not trying to persuade you to dislike him.

I think we are asking for you to consider your position.


(and yet, I'm cool with you or anyone not digging him.... to each their own.)

[Pyperkub]

Going to need an example here - especially the "hates that people have a say" impression.

Don't have it. Sorry to disappoint you. It's a good thing I'm not trying to persuade you to dislike him.

I think we are asking for you to consider your position.


(and yet, I'm cool with you or anyone not digging him.... to each their own.)

Yeah, I'm fine with YK's dislike on a personal basis (it happens sometimes, though I'd be interested in YK looking at his tech policy positions and statements and seeing if there's perhaps some respect for his positions, if not the man), but from your statements it appears as if your dislike is based on something more concrete that he's done as a Senator, and I'm actually interested in learning more about what that is, as it could change my opinion of him.

The charge that a democratically elected representative "hates that people have a say" is kind of serious to me, and I do want to learn more about it.

[Unagi]

Same here, I like the guy - but from what LM is saying I shouldn't and I don't want to go around supporting someone that doesn't think people should have a voice in their government.

(perhaps the rule is just that satirist shouldn't have a voice in their government, even if they are elected)

[Rip]

I've never liked him. Never found him funny.

He was a staple of SNL the unfunny years.

[LordMortis]

I've not seen this stuff at all. Is this stuff you have seen or just picture him doing.

It's stuff that I've seen him do in papers and on TV going back to the 90s. Asking me to care enough about specifics and finding them is asking too much. He now has been relegated to the it's "the impression I get" That could change but it's not likely to.

If it's of any consequence, if it were him against Trump, I'd do my research and imagine a world where I'd likely find a way to vote for him.

[hepcat]

Congratulations, you and Rip share something.

edit: Sorry. Wrote that wrong.

Congratulations?

[Zarathud]

Franken adds to the narrative that this is a celebrity election. I think he's done well as a Senator but his baggage as a political satirist isn't going to motivate anyone neutral to vote for Hillary.

Hillary needs a "ready from day one" VP so Franken would be an unforced error.

[LordMortis]

isn't going to motivate anyone neutral to vote for Hillary.

That's an interesting way to frame it and finding that motivation is why this is Clinton's election to lose. I don't think Trump has that option to him and while it's open to Clinton, I'm not seeing it so far.

[El Guapo]

Franken adds to the narrative that this is a celebrity election. I think he's done well as a Senator but his baggage as a political satirist isn't going to motivate anyone neutral to vote for Hillary.

Hillary needs a "ready from day one" VP so Franken would be an unforced error.

Yeah, I am inclined to agree. Clinton is at least seen as the serious candidate (though of course with her own negatives), which Franken (somewhat unfairly) wouldn't help with. I do think he has some credibility with the party base from his Air America days (and willingness to go hard on Republicans) but his early backing of Clinton might minimize how much he could help with the Bernie or Bust crowd. Though I do like Franken a lot and would personally like her to pick him.

Though here is a politico piece making the pitch for Franken.

[Pyperkub]

I've never liked him. Never found him funny.

He was a staple of SNL the unfunny years.

Deep Thoughts was pretty good as well as Stuart Smalley (though not enough for a movie, IMHO).

[hepcat]

Al Franken was a part of SNL (as a writer) during its best years.

[LordMortis]

Deep Thoughts was pretty good as well .

Deep Thoughts was awesome.

If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because maybe you’ll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you because, hey, free dummy.

[El Guapo]

If you ever drop your keys in a pool of molten lava, just forget 'em because man, they're gone.

What's the toughest animal on the planet? It's not the lion, or the tiger. No, it's a shark on top of an elephant, just eating and trampling everything it sees.

[YellowKing]

I agree Al Franken would be Hillary bringing herself down to Trump's level. Whether fair or not, I see Franken as Stuart Smalley first, politician second - and I'm probably not alone, especially among people who don't keep up with politics.

I think Hillary has to really play up the "experienced, level-headed" card to combat Trump's mania. The minute she throws a clown like Franken into the mix, it's just going to be one big episode of Celebrity Apprentice. I see zero upside, and a lot of downside - at least for a voter like me who doesn't like either candidate and already thinks this election is a farce.

[Zaxxon]

The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

[LordMortis]

I agree Al Franken would be Hillary bringing herself down to Trump's level. Whether fair or not, I see Franken as Stuart Smalley first, politician second - and I'm probably not alone, especially among people who don't keep up with politics.

I see him as Air America (The original left answer to Rush Limbaugh somewhere between satire and serious) first and politician second (again, whether fair or not). I presumed to speak up for you when I answered Guap. I was wrong in doing so. His SNL stuff doesn't paint my negative picture of him as politician.

[Jaymann]

I would love to see Al Franken a heartbeat from the Presidency. Not only would he make a great President, he has the wit and the wherewithal to stand up to the right wingers frothing at the mouth.

[Fitzy]

I agree Al Franken would be Hillary bringing herself down to Trump's level. Whether fair or not, I see Franken as Stuart Smalley first, politician second - and I'm probably not alone, especially among people who don't keep up with politics.

I think Hillary has to really play up the "experienced, level-headed" card to combat Trump's mania. The minute she throws a clown like Franken into the mix, it's just going to be one big episode of Celebrity Apprentice. I see zero upside, and a lot of downside - at least for a voter like me who doesn't like either candidate and already thinks this election is a farce.

How about Tim Kaine?

[hepcat]

I've never liked him. Never found him funny.

He was a staple of SNL the unfunny years.

Deep Thoughts was pretty good as well as Stuart Smalley (though not enough for a movie, IMHO).

Deep Thoughts was pretty good as well .

Deep Thoughts was awesome.

If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because maybe you’ll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you because, hey, free dummy.

Deep Thoughts was Jack Handy, not Al Franken.

[LordMortis]

I've never liked him. Never found him funny.

He was a staple of SNL the unfunny years.

Deep Thoughts was pretty good as well as Stuart Smalley (though not enough for a movie, IMHO).

Deep Thoughts was pretty good as well .

Deep Thoughts was awesome.

If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because maybe you’ll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you because, hey, free dummy.

Deep Thoughts was Jack Handy, not Al Franken.

And here I was sticking up for nothing (assuming Jack Handy was just a pen name after Pyper posted), I guess, because Deep Thoughts was awesome.

[Kraken]

Franken adds to the narrative that this is a celebrity election. I think he's done well as a Senator but his baggage as a political satirist isn't going to motivate anyone neutral to vote for Hillary.

Hillary needs a "ready from day one" VP so Franken would be an unforced error.

Right but wrong. Clinton already wins the boring policy wonk stuff hands-down. But roughly half of the electorate wants to be entertained above all else, and Trump is killing it with those voters. Doubling down on being an adult will not sway anybody. Franken could engage Trump on his own level, where Hillary can't even try to go.

[Jeff V]

Franken adds to the narrative that this is a celebrity election. I think he's done well as a Senator but his baggage as a political satirist isn't going to motivate anyone neutral to vote for Hillary.

Hillary needs a "ready from day one" VP so Franken would be an unforced error.

Right but wrong. Clinton already wins the boring policy wonk stuff hands-down. But roughly half of the electorate wants to be entertained above all else, and Trump is killing it with those voters. Doubling down on being an adult will not sway anybody. Franken could engage Trump on his own level, where Hillary can't even try to go.

Then Jon Stewart would be an even better choice!

[Kraken]

Franken adds to the narrative that this is a celebrity election. I think he's done well as a Senator but his baggage as a political satirist isn't going to motivate anyone neutral to vote for Hillary.

Hillary needs a "ready from day one" VP so Franken would be an unforced error.

Right but wrong. Clinton already wins the boring policy wonk stuff hands-down. But roughly half of the electorate wants to be entertained above all else, and Trump is killing it with those voters. Doubling down on being an adult will not sway anybody. Franken could engage Trump on his own level, where Hillary can't even try to go.

Then Jon Stewart would be an even better choice!

Careful now, you don't want your VP to overshadow your candidate. Franken would be a properly obeisant wiseguy. Stewart would run away with it.

[Unagi]

The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

it's funny that pirates were always going around searching for treasure, and they never realized that the real treasure was the fond memories they were creating.

[Unagi]

I agree Al Franken would be Hillary bringing herself down to Trump's level. Whether fair or not, I see Franken as Stuart Smalley first, politician second - and I'm probably not alone, especially among people who don't keep up with politics.

Honestly, if my first impression of Al Franken was Stuart Smalley - I think I may share your default opinion of him (I f-ing hated that skit). I think I'm like 5-7 years older than you and that gave me a better intro.

[Unagi]

and also

I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

I'm telling you, just attach a big parachute to the plane itself!! Is anyone listening to me?!!

And to this, a point... If these are all written by Al Fraken (not sure if that totally accurate), it speaks to a brain that thinks. And honestly - when you hear the words coming out of Trumps head, this man is the joke. He doesn't have a single intelligent thing to say. He couldn't make a joke.

I know it's not 'policy'. I know it's just bullshit humor... I know that Al may not even have written all of those.... But I am so much more willing to put a vote behind someone with a creative and humorous and thoughtful approach to life and living than I am to the fucking hate-show that is Rip. I mean Trump.