Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:28 pm

Something doesn't even begin to describe it. I'm still trying to figure it all out, but my take is that the creator (Artem) severely underestimated the shipping costs. However, I also get the impression that Golden Bell has sent KS games via Media Mail shipping in the past and I suspect they were told by the USPS it had to stop. So now they're in a position where not only did the creator underestimate costs, but the publisher lost out on their ability to "shift costs" by using the cheapest method possible. Regardless, I am not really up on the whole Gold Bell situation (I have no customer history with them). But Artem seems like a solid guy and he's been great at communicating and updating the KS project so I will trust what he says. I'm also not opposed to tossing them another $10 or so when the game is in my hands to better match what shipping actually costs. Though I'm not inclined to do so via PayPal to the CEO of Golden Bell, which is his current suggestion. So yea....it's something.

Moat_Man · Post by **Moat_Man** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:27 pm

with a vested interest.

MonkeyFinger · Post by **MonkeyFinger** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:38 am

"Great" he said sarcastically, having a vested interest as well.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:36 am

I don't think this will result in anyone around here having issues getting the game in the next few weeks. In the U.S., the games are already at the distributor. But the EU customers are apparently expecting a further wait of a few months before their copies even ship out of China. Apparently, Golden Bell is expecting to lose upwards of a 100k on this due to the shipping issue if folks don't chip in. However, they've displayed some truly unprofessional outbursts on the kickstarter comments, and supposedly have had issues before. So I'm not sure I want to help them out, to be honest. The designer has already been paid, so I don't think it's coming out of his pocket. Although I could be wrong. If I am, I'll chip in. As Smoove said, he's been nothing but above board throughout all this.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am

Wow. I thought everyone had figured out shipping after the Shadows of Brimstone bullsh#$.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:55 am

Yeah, for whatever reason (I think Artem's general inexperience), he collected shipping at the time of the KS, not just ahead of the delivery (as is seemingly now done). When this launched in early 2018, it was supposed to ship about 9 months later (December), but now it's ~6 months late. I have no doubts the shipping costs would have been different if they locked them in during March of 2019 vs March of 2018.

The other thing is that I believe Artem signed on with Golden Bell at the last minute as his distributor - long after the KS was successful. Why they didn't pick up on the disconnect between what he was collecting and what they needed to fund shipment, I don't know. Seems like mistakes all around.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:08 am

In more positive KS news, I think I'm going to back Space Infantry Resurgence by Lock and Load publishing. I've come to appreciate LnL designs and this looks to be similar to WarFighter but focused instead on a space marine / alien theme.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:21 am

I've passed by the Lock and Load booth at every Origins and Gencon and debated picking that one up. But I think I'll just wait and grab the updated version at one of those conventions after it's released.

I used to own All Things Zombie by LnL. It was one of the first zombie games that made noise a crucial component of your game. Now it seems like everyone does it.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:48 am

Interesting. I've had Warfighter (WWII) on my list for a long time.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:56 am

Do I need CMON's Bloodborne game? Early bird is ending soon. I feel like I shouldn't... but I want to... $90 plus shipping... grrr...

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:58 am

I would imagine the theme (ties to the video game) is the real draw here, no? I have none so it's an easy pass for me. Though I can also say that because I'm generally not into CMON games anymore. After burning on on Zombicide, I' learned I don't usually enjoy them. That and they seem to feed off the desire to get 37lbs of miniatures with every KS project now.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:59 am

FWIW, I paid the extra money to get the expedited Unbroken shipped and have already received it. (I have not played yet though)

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:00 pm

Theme + Eric Lang + lots of cool minis.

Bloodborne is top 5 for me and I am curious about the mechanics (No mechanisms is much too clunky a word, I'm not using it Isgrimnur) in use here. There are no dice.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:04 pm

If I hadn't blew my KS budget on Street Masters this year, I'd probably be in. The designer at GenCon last year talked about it during the Dice Tower Live event and it sounded like he was really trying to capture the difficulty of the video game in the way the campaign progression worked.

It's on my radar after release, but I'm OK waiting for some reviews.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:15 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:48 am Interesting. I've had Warfighter (WWII) on my list for a long time.

That's DVG games, not Lock and Load. I have Warfighter WWII and it's a blast. But it's hard as hell.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:28 pm

Ulisses Spiele is running a new KS for the latest Aventuria expansion. I'm a really big fan of this game as it fully supports true solo (only need to play one character) design. This is what I wanted the Pathfinder Adventure system to be - much more of a roll playing adventure with cards. I'm a little unclear as to the references to the 2nd edition upgrade as I thought the German version was 1st edition and then the American version was 2nd, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way they seem to include lots of goodies as part of being a backer. I missed all prior KSers from them, so I'm hoping they eventually throw in the sweet Aventuria dice I missed out on from an earlier campaign. These sets eventually all hit retail but I figured I'd share.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:11 pm

In. I love me some Aventuria. I don't have the last expansion (which was for deck building primarily, I believe), but I keep looking.

edit: should have kept reading. Looks like they'll offer all the expansions as add ons. whoo hoo!

edit 2: Looks like all i need is the inn patron level to get my upgrade kit and the two expansions. I may add on playmats later though. However, I refuse to part with my health wheels for the game in favor of the new "easier to read" cards. I like the damn health wheels.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:52 pm

coopasonic wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:00 pm Theme + Eric Lang + lots of cool minis.

Bloodborne is top 5 for me and I am curious about the mechanics (No mechanisms is much too clunky a word, I'm not using it Isgrimnur) in use here. There are no dice.

I'm tempted by it not for the game (Massive Darkness has made me doubt any release from CMON until I see a review or 10), but for those sweet minis. Which I can easily see being used for Frostgrave, Malifaux, etc..

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:55 pm

I think I have Aventuria on my wish list based on prior comments here. I'll be thinking about this one. It sounds pretty cool. Any youtube reviews or playthroughs I should watch to get a better idea?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:03 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Ulisses Spiele is running a new KS for the latest Aventuria expansion. I'm a really big fan of this game as it fully supports true solo (only need to play one character) design. This is what I wanted the Pathfinder Adventure system to be - much more of a roll playing adventure with cards. I'm a little unclear as to the references to the 2nd edition upgrade as I thought the German version was 1st edition and then the American version was 2nd, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way they seem to include lots of goodies as part of being a backer. I missed all prior KSers from them, so I'm hoping they eventually throw in the sweet Aventuria dice I missed out on from an earlier campaign. These sets eventually all hit retail but I figured I'd share.

Arrgh, "true solo" is my kryptonite. I'll have to investigate this game further. I had some games arrive recently so I don't feel the drive to pledge that strongly yet...

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:08 pm

coopasonic wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:55 pm I think I have Aventuria on my wish list based on prior comments here. I'll be thinking about this one. It sounds pretty cool. Any youtube reviews or playthroughs I should watch to get a better idea?

I like One Stop Co-Op Shop

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:14 pm

$iljanus wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:03 pmArrgh, "true solo" is my kryptonite. I'll have to investigate this game further. I had some games arrive recently so I don't feel the drive to pledge that strongly yet...

No pressure, but from what I understand the core game is out of print now. I think part of the KS is to try and get copies back into retail, but from what I saw after missing their last KS it was like 3+ months after backers received their copies before retail copies were easily available. It might be easy to get used copies on eBay (or equivalent), but I really haven't looked. I quite like the game and system and yes, the true solo is what really sold me initially.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:36 pm

I've recently become a Ulisses Spiele fan thanks to Torg Eternity, and I do love a true solo game! Then again, $120 is a lot of money that I really can't spend right now. I still clicked the 'remind me.'

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:40 pm

The "New Adventurer" backer level (~$49) is to get a copy of the core set. Nothing wrong with starting there. That being said, there's still shipping and at that point, you're well over what I paid for my retail copy a few years ago (~$35). I think it will come down to all the "freebies" unlocked during the campaign.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:12 pm

Yep. I'll be watching, and I'll be checking out some reviews.

The real answer, of course, is that I really don't need another board game! I still have yet to try out Mage Knight, which I've had sitting there for almost two years, and I have Batman: Gotham City Chronicles that's been delivered to my freinds' house, to be brought down next time they visit.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:40 pm

coopasonic wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:00 pm Theme + Eric Lang + lots of cool minis.

Bloodborne is top 5 for me and I am curious about the mechanics (No mechanisms is much too clunky a word, I'm not using it Isgrimnur) in use here. There are no dice.

I read the rules earlier today. I had backed it to hold a spot until I could look into the gameplay a bit more. After doing so, I think I might bow out. It borrows from Gloomhaven and Dungeon Alliance at first glance, but seems to ignore the strengths of those games in doing so. I do like the dashboard that you use for combat and the three card limit when using it, but it just doesn’t seem to have much going for it beyond that. Exploration isn’t really all that exciting (just uncover a tile needed by your chapter card), and the deck building options seem limited.

Still, I thought Dungeon Alliance was going to be too light when I read the rules, but after playing it I realized it had a bit more depth than I initially thought.

Decisions, decisions...

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:30 am

..and now I am having second thoughts on Bloodborne as well. I've yet to get even a hint of an opportunity to play Gotham City Chronicles and I think Bloodborne would go the same way. Also I just backed Oceans (the new Evolution game) and am looking hard at Aventuria, both of which I am much more likely to get played. I think I am going to drop it. CMON has enough of my money.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:13 am

Yeah, I'm out too. I think I'll use the money for the fantasy themed version of Street Masters coming up.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:34 am

So i keep looking back to Aventuria... Because I am me I really want to go all in, but no need for the playmats... then I see there are cards with the playmats...

$120 Barkeep level - core game and black boar expansions
$120 expansion bundle
$150 playmat bundle

Well if I am spending that much, what's another $40 for acrylic tokens?

I haven't done it yet, but the fact that I am even considering it... On the other hand it is *way* more likely to get played than that stupid batman game taking up half my shelves.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:39 pm

For fellow Hostage Negotiator fans, their new kickstarter is now live. Hostage Negotiator: Career seems to add a bit of a campaign mode. Looks like it's going to be the last expansion for the game, too.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:42 pm

hepcat wrote:For fellow Hostage Negotiator fans, their new kickstarter is now live. Hostage Negotiator: Career seems to add a bit of a campaign mode. Looks like it's going to be the last expansion for the game, too.

I was actually taking out my copy of Hostage Negotiator Crime Wave to set up when I got the email. Backed at the Sargeant level to get the game mat.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:45 pm

That's what I'm eyeing too.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:45 pm

Huge fan of the VanRyder KS projects and I backed this as soon as saw the email. Not sure about the game mat, but definitely in for the final chapter.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Thu May 02, 2019 2:43 am

Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 1:45 pm Huge fan of the VanRyder KS projects and I backed this as soon as saw the email. Not sure about the game mat, but definitely in for the final chapter.

Ditto.

The Hostage Negotiator games/expansions are definitely a unique and enjoyable series of solo titles. In for a penny, in for a pound, so might as well conclude 'em properly (as the career expansion is supposedly "the grand finale" of the Hostage Negotiator games/expansions).

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu May 02, 2019 8:21 am

I'm torn on it. I bought Crime Wave at GenCon last year but have only played it once or twice. Game never really grabbed me, but I think that's more my lack of understanding of how to play effectively than the game itself. The Career Mode sounds appealing though, and would certainly make me more likely to give it another chance. Decisions, decisions.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu May 02, 2019 3:10 pm

Bones 4 arrived. I'm about two and a half hours into inventorying it all, and I'm a little less than halfway done. I had a pair of friends back through my pledge, and they spent way more than I did. All together, it's about $700 and 35 pounds worth of Bones.

The only thing that's annoyed me so far has been the scale reductions. Not only did they seriously shrink Argent, but they went with the older, smaller scale giants, too. After Bones 3, they began making their giants much larger to fit with D&D 5e scales. Apparently they rolled that back without telling anyone, and I now I have frost giants that barely come to the bottom of the chest of other giants of the same type. I have hill giants the size of ogres. And it is worth mentioning that their art during the KS campaign showed them at the new, larger scale. It pisses me off.

On a brighter note, the new Bones Black material is fantastic. It's rigid, clean, and seems to hold as much detail as metal, or at least harder plastics. No more Bones minis with potato faces!

Ertic · Post by **Ertic** » Thu May 02, 2019 10:13 pm

hepcat wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:11 pm In. I love me some Aventuria. I don't have the last expansion (which was for deck building primarily, I believe), but I keep looking.

edit: should have kept reading. Looks like they'll offer all the expansions as add ons. whoo hoo!

edit 2: Looks like all i need is the inn patron level to get my upgrade kit and the two expansions. I may add on playmats later though. However, I refuse to part with my health wheels for the game in favor of the new "easier to read" cards. I like the damn health wheels.

Hep and others that have both Aventuria and Mistfall; which game does it better?

I own Mistfall and the expansion and the game has only made it to the table once. I don't do solo gaming, however I don't mind duo. There is a ton of iconography in Mistfall and from the One Stop Co-Op videos it appears as though Aventuria shares a lot of the same icons with Mistfall.

Another thing is just how much story is in the main box? It seems that the expansion played in the video has one 3 chapter story arc along with a couple other one off chapters. What does this equate to gaming wise? Maybe 5 hours? Just trying to get some information before tossing $100+ dollars at this thing.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri May 03, 2019 8:41 am

Please stop tempting me with Aventuria.

Ertic · Post by **Ertic** » Fri May 03, 2019 10:28 am

wonderpug wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 8:41 am Please stop tempting me with Aventuria.

I fully blame you for this

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri May 03, 2019 10:30 am

Ertic wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 10:13 pm Hep and others that have both Aventuria and Mistfall; which game does it better?

I own Mistfall and the expansion and the game has only made it to the table once. I don't do solo gaming, however I don't mind duo. There is a ton of iconography in Mistfall and from the One Stop Co-Op videos it appears as though Aventuria shares a lot of the same icons with Mistfall.

Another thing is just how much story is in the main box? It seems that the expansion played in the video has one 3 chapter story arc along with a couple other one off chapters. What does this equate to gaming wise? Maybe 5 hours? Just trying to get some information before tossing $100+ dollars at this thing.

I tried Mistfall and just couldn't get into it. Between the manual and the iconography, it just didn't work for me. If I had someone to teach me, maybe it would have been better, but it just felt like a series of combats strung together.

Aventuria is the game I wanted the Pathfinder adventure game to be. If you're not aware, the game is based off of the PnP version of what is the D&D equivalent in Germany. What's crazy is that out of the box, the game is designed as a "duel" game - where you fight against other players. However, with minor adjustments (really how some cards are read or used), you can instead solo or coop your way through a series of campaign stories. The story elements have a bit of a "Choose Your Own Adventure" where sometimes you need to decide on a course of action and there's usually a gradient of results based on how well you succeed or fail at an event. To be clear, the campaign/coop version of the game is part of the official rules - it's not an add on or an afterthought.

Everything comes back to resolving cards. You'll read through a scene and are given various options as to how you can resolve the situation. You roll a die and the value determines success. Combat is similar though there are usually going to be additional skills and modifiers to help your die rolling.

What I like about it is that unlike Pathfinder, it's not just a flip over a card and roll a number to win. For the core box, the campaign adventures have slowly escalating conditions. Sometimes you need to make skill checks to harm an enemy or other times there are minions that you need to eliminate first. It sets up a much more dynamic "event' that feels like a PnP battle between two sides. I've only played true solo (i.e. one character) and I thought it worked great. Having a game balanced so that it supports a single character is a huge plus (for me) as I'm not great (and don't enjoy) managing multiple characters or decks. Between adventures you can rest, which gives you even more options like leveling up cards or getting bonus tokens to help you in skill checks. This makes it feel more like an RPG game.

Its hard for me to say how much time is in the game. With the core box you have four different characters and three stories. You can play each story then four times and experience it in a different way based on the character you choose.

I think this video gives a great overview. He's playing as three heroes so you can at least see the variety, but the video does a great job of introducing the system and early play. He makes some mistakes, but that's expected when running three characters!