Octopus Overlords

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas. Like, isn't that the definition of a racist? If not, who exactly is a racist?

LordMortis wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 3:55 pm
You are on the mark today. Are you feeling OK?

In the same vein as an old friend's favorite passive insult "You look good. You been sick?"

El Guapo wrote:That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas.

And some, I assume, are good people.

I do think there are a lot of racist people who don't think they're racist. They're just so tone-deaf, or unsympathetic, that they literally cannot see how their words or actions affect other people. My in-laws will swear up and down they're not racist even as they talk about how surprised they were at how well-spoken and clean the colored guy was who bagged their groceries.

And I certainly don't think all Trump supporters are racist. But at some point you have to question at what point do you assume some responsibility for turning a blind eye to it.

Just anecdotally, not every Trump supporter I know is a racist. But every racist I know is a Trump supporter.

El Guapo wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:29 pm

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas. Like, isn't that the definition of a racist? If not, who exactly is a racist?

Don't drive me to supporting Trump just because my bigot is showing. I'm a victim of liberal elitism. You caused this! You.
(though I have to say I can empathize with sentiment, even if I don't agree with action. I am resentful of DNC and their process and who the liberal elite choose to run things. I'm so resentful I've become active in the democratic primaries and I am far far far from a democrat. While "liberal elitism" didn't elect Trump or justify his support, it sure doesn't make it easy to get along. It's the difference between you saying "You will get nothing and like it." and me responding "I will get nothing but I will not like it" and the conservative victim saying "Well you continue to threaten me with nothing, so *shrug* kerosene *shrug* and it's all on you.")

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:43 pm

El Guapo wrote:That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas.

And some, I assume, are good people.

I do think there are a lot of racist people who don't think they're racist. They're just so tone-deaf, or unsympathetic, that they literally cannot see how their words or actions affect other people. My in-laws will swear up and down they're not racist even as they talk about how surprised they were at how well-spoken and clean the colored guy was who bagged their groceries.

And I certainly don't think all Trump supporters are racist. But at some point you have to question at what point do you assume some responsibility for turning a blind eye to it.

Just anecdotally, not every Trump supporter I know is a racist. But every racist I know is a Trump supporter.

I think part of it is that when people picture 'racists', they tend to think of overtly villainous people who believe explicitly in the inferiority of another race - Klan members, white nationalists, etc. But most racists are normal, generally good people who think that some racist ideas are true. So the analysis becomes, "I am basically a good person, and I don't agree with a statement like "black people are not the equal of white people", therefore I am not a racist".

LordMortis wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:51 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:29 pm

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas. Like, isn't that the definition of a racist? If not, who exactly is a racist?

Don't drive me to supporting Trump just because my bigot is showing. I'm a victim of liberal elitism. You caused this! You.
(though I have to say I can empathize with sentiment, even if I don't agree with action. I am resentful of DNC and their process and who the liberal elite choose to run things. I'm so resentful I've become active in the democratic primaries and I am far far far from a democrat. While "liberal elitism" didn't elect Trump or justify his support, it sure doesn't make it easy to get along. It's the difference between you saying "You will get nothing and like it." and me responding "I will get nothing but I will not like it" and the conservative victim saying "Well you continue to threaten me with nothing, so *shrug* kerosene *shrug* and it's all on you.")

You're doing the right thing. At the moment at least we are stuck with a two-party system due to our electoral rules. So if you're unhappy with the democratic party, the two viable answers are: (1) join and help reshape the Democratic Party; and/or (2) work to change the electoral rules.

What drives me nuts is voting for third parties under the current electoral rules.

El Guapo wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:54 pm

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:43 pm

El Guapo wrote:That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas.

And some, I assume, are good people.

I do think there are a lot of racist people who don't think they're racist. They're just so tone-deaf, or unsympathetic, that they literally cannot see how their words or actions affect other people. My in-laws will swear up and down they're not racist even as they talk about how surprised they were at how well-spoken and clean the colored guy was who bagged their groceries.

And I certainly don't think all Trump supporters are racist. But at some point you have to question at what point do you assume some responsibility for turning a blind eye to it.

Just anecdotally, not every Trump supporter I know is a racist. But every racist I know is a Trump supporter.

I think part of it is that when people picture 'racists', they tend to think of overtly villainous people who believe explicitly in the inferiority of another race - Klan members, white nationalists, etc. But most racists are normal, generally good people who think that some racist ideas are true. So the analysis becomes, "I am basically a good person, and I don't agree with a statement like "black people are not the equal of white people", therefore I am not a racist".

My grandmother probably would have fit in there somewhere. She was extremely open-minded about some things... She didn't have an issue when one of my cousins was in an interracial relationship. On the other hand, she routinely made statements founded in racial stereotypes.

El Guapo wrote:

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas. Like, isn't that the definition of a racist? If not, who exactly is a racist?

I think you’re getting close to the real gist of many R’s idea on racism with those questions.

Maybe to understand further we should ask the following questions to a few Right thought leaders:

1. Do you believe racism exists in modern America?
2. Does supporting a racist agenda/politician/party make one a racist? An accomplice in racism?
3. Is the term ‘racism’ overused (primarily by the Left), or is it an actual modern American problem that needs to be addressed?

I bet you wouldn’t get past 1. Doubtful most would say it directly, but if you read and listen between the lines, I think the consistent message is “there is no race problem.” You get the sense that they believe that racists pertain only to Nazis and those people in diners from the 60’s who threw food at black kids sitting at their whites only counter after the Civil Rights act was passed.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:08 pm

El Guapo wrote:

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas. Like, isn't that the definition of a racist? If not, who exactly is a racist?

I think you’re getting close to the real gist of many R’s idea on racism with those questions.

Maybe to understand further we should ask the following questions to a few Right thought leaders:

1. Do you believe racism exists in modern America?
2. Does supporting a racist agenda/politician/party make one a racist? An accomplice in racism?
3. Is the term ‘racism’ overused (primarily by the Left), or is it an actual modern American problem that needs to be addressed?

I bet you wouldn’t get past 1. Doubtful most would say it directly, but if you read and listen between the lines, I think the consistent message is “there is no race problem.” You get the sense that they believe that racists pertain only to Nazis and those people in diners from the 60’s who threw food at black kids sitting at their whites only counter after the Civil Rights act was passed.

And I think that people tend to think of it in boxes, like one is either (1) a racist; or (2) not a racist. When in reality this in on a gradation / spectrum, measured by basically the number of racist ideas / stereotypes one agrees with, and how strongly one agrees with them.

The easiest rule to remember is to ignore everything anyone says about race that comes before the "but..."

I would argue that near 100% of them would say that a race problem exists - for them the problem is minorities thinking that there is a race problem, and the things we’ve tried to do to deal with it (i.e Affirmative Action).

Which they find fault with and are trying to undo.

Kim Kardashian Is Currently Our Nation’s Greatest Hope for Prison Reform

Yesterday Kardashian also tweeted out the story of Matthew Charle. Charles was released from federal prison after serving 21 years behind bars for a crack cocaine offense, but two years after he started putting his life back together a federal appeals court ruled he had been set free in error. He has since been returned to prison.

As Reason reported yesterday, Charles' story sparked outrage and widespread calls for Trump to commute his sentence.

While the Trump administration is staunchly opposed to sentencing reforms, it has supported more modest prison and reentry reforms. Earlier this month, the White House held a prison reform summit where Trump called on Congress to pass a pending prison reform bill and get it to his desk. He also spoke in his State of the Union speech earlier this year about the need to give former inmates better training and opportunities for a second chance at life.

Trump has proved receptive to other celebrity entreaties, such as one from Sylvester Stallone that resulted in Trump's recent posthumous pardon of boxer Jack Johnson. Listen, it's a not great state of affairs when you need a massive celebrity to get the attention of the president and fix gross injustices, but if Kim K. can get it done, more power to her.

El Guapo wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
What drives me nuts is voting for third parties under the current electoral rules.

There’s Unite America Of which I’m intrigued but skeptical. It doesn’t appear to be a traditional party. The premise is to elect just enough moderate independents to deny either party a Senate majority. The independents would then have big power due to requiring them to pass anything. In theory.

I’m intrigued because I dislike the Republican turn to the right and the Democrats turn to the left. I much prefer the wishy-washy middle. Also one of the two endorsed candidates is trying to get on the ballot here in Maryland.

I’m skeptical because (1) the theory that either of the parties would be reasonable in a situation in which neither has enough votes to control the Senate. (2) Their only two endorsed candidates are running in D states and the only way there’s a prayer is if the republicans are knocked down to 49. I could see Collins working with them if the Rebulidans were <49, but not if they were above 50.

I wouldn’t toss away my vote if there was any chance of the Democrat incumbent losing to the Republicans, but if polling is showing a safe lead I’d consider it. Or if polling showed the guy actually stood any chance without risking the seat falling to republicans. For example if no serious republican ran.

RunningMn9 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:30 pm I would argue that near 100% of them would say that a race problem exists - for them the problem is minorities thinking that there is a race problem, and the things we’ve tried to do to deal with it (i.e Affirmative Action).

Gotta say. I'm not a fan of affirmative action. At the same time there are *yuge* problems that continue to need to be addressed and AA is the best really bad patch that's not fixing anything and creating problems even as it patches others I've seen on the table. I'm all ears, as I'm not smart enough to map a fix for a problem four pronged in poverty, education, opportunity, and culture and it does needs fixing. I believe I'll be smart enough to recognize it when someone else figures it out but that might be an unfounded arrogance. Hopefully I'll live long enough and we get our shit together enough for me to see it and support it, whatever it may be.

Fitzy wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 6:31 pm I wouldn’t toss away my vote if there was any chance of the Democrat incumbent losing to the Republicans, but if polling is showing a safe lead I’d consider it. Or if polling showed the guy actually stood any chance without risking the seat falling to republicans. For example if no serious republican ran.

I'd rather vote third party than keep no small number of my duly elected officials in office another term but 2016 changed the game. Quite frankly for the exact reason the conservative victim states. I do feel a like a victim of the GOP successfully dismantling our government for graft and God.

Like everything else I used to support they're co-opting my victim card! I'm a progressive conservative libertarian without a home and they are the paradox of the hate group that call you for being hate group because you hate them for them being a hate group.

https://twitter.com/FLOTUS/status/1001912411933364224

Someone claiming to be Melania Trump wrote:I see the media is working overtime speculating where I am & what I'm doing. Rest assured, I'm here at the @WhiteHouse w my family, feeling great, & working hard on behalf of children & the American people!

This totally and completely does not sound like ghost writing all, believe me.

I generally find her tweets to be appropriate. Ghost written or not, it's only sense of stability and respect for both the office and the people it is accountable to coming from that direction. While I believe I get the unbridled wrath, I don't sympathize with it.

edit:

Unless this was body snatching joke. Again, my joke meter when it comes to this administration is broken and only points to scathing sarcasm. That's on me.

Moliere wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 6:17 pm Kim Kardashian Is Currently Our Nation’s Greatest Hope for Prison Reform

Yesterday Kardashian also tweeted out the story of Matthew Charle. Charles was released from federal prison after serving 21 years behind bars for a crack cocaine offense, but two years after he started putting his life back together a federal appeals court ruled he had been set free in error. He has since been returned to prison.

As Reason reported yesterday, Charles' story sparked outrage and widespread calls for Trump to commute his sentence.

While the Trump administration is staunchly opposed to sentencing reforms, it has supported more modest prison and reentry reforms. Earlier this month, the White House held a prison reform summit where Trump called on Congress to pass a pending prison reform bill and get it to his desk. He also spoke in his State of the Union speech earlier this year about the need to give former inmates better training and opportunities for a second chance at life.

Trump has proved receptive to other celebrity entreaties, such as one from Sylvester Stallone that resulted in Trump's recent posthumous pardon of boxer Jack Johnson. Listen, it's a not great state of affairs when you need a massive celebrity to get the attention of the president and fix gross injustices, but if Kim K. can get it done, more power to her.

She's a relative peon. While Trump is an unabashed ratings/likes/attention whore, he knows where his bread is buttered. He may be allowed the pardon but there's not going to be any reform.

malchior wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 2:36 pm So much for those checks and balances.

Perhaps ultimately, this is the most frustrating part to me.

I mean, I'm disgusted and frightened by the President - but that the GOP is just letting all this happen for reasons of personal greed just makes me feel like all could be lost or, rather shows me that the net I thought we had isn't there at all.



PLEASE let this investagtion bear fruit and soon.

Skinypupy wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 7:50 pm

Fark 403.

Don't be a dirty hotlinker.

I really need to find a better image hosting site. Every one I try seems to be a mess of redirects, captcha nonsense, popup ads (that no blocker seems to stop), etc.

I didn't get it at first (I wanted to tell you that was posted a few posts up ), but now I do - and that's great.

Unagi wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 8:07 pm that the GOP is just letting all this happen for reasons .... makes me feel like all could be lost or, rather shows me that the net I thought we had isn't there at all.

If you reduce it this then a hearty and fearful and depressing and angering and... well exhausting... +1.

Skinypupy wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 8:26 pm I really need to find a better image hosting site. Every one I try seems to be a mess of redirects, captcha nonsense, popup ads (that no blocker seems to stop), etc.

Both Chrome and Firefox have plugins that let you right-click to rehost on Imgur, which must be owned by Isgrimnur, or its name would make no sense.

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:31 pm Which they find fault with and are trying to undo.

Not a good idea to try to fix discrimination using discrimination.

Victoria Raverna wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 11:40 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:31 pm Which they find fault with and are trying to undo.

Not a good idea to try to fix discrimination using discrimination.

But it's reverse discrimination. That's, like, the opposite of discrimination.

Kraken wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 2:18 am

Victoria Raverna wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 11:40 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:31 pm Which they find fault with and are trying to undo.

Not a good idea to try to fix discrimination using discrimination.

But it's reverse discrimination. That's, like, the opposite of discrimination.

I'm pretty sure us straight white males can handle a bit of discrimination. We've ended up at the apex of the pyramid by stepping on everyone else, so getting some back is only going to teach us some needed humility.

El Guapo wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:12 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:08 pm

El Guapo wrote:

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas. Like, isn't that the definition of a racist? If not, who exactly is a racist?

I think you’re getting close to the real gist of many R’s idea on racism with those questions.

Maybe to understand further we should ask the following questions to a few Right thought leaders:

1. Do you believe racism exists in modern America?
2. Does supporting a racist agenda/politician/party make one a racist? An accomplice in racism?
3. Is the term ‘racism’ overused (primarily by the Left), or is it an actual modern American problem that needs to be addressed?

I bet you wouldn’t get past 1. Doubtful most would say it directly, but if you read and listen between the lines, I think the consistent message is “there is no race problem.” You get the sense that they believe that racists pertain only to Nazis and those people in diners from the 60’s who threw food at black kids sitting at their whites only counter after the Civil Rights act was passed.

And I think that people tend to think of it in boxes, like one is either (1) a racist; or (2) not a racist. When in reality this in on a gradation / spectrum, measured by basically the number of racist ideas / stereotypes one agrees with, and how strongly one agrees with them.

You're both ignoring a good portion of the population that thinks either racism is self inflicted or impact more negatively on the white male population than others at this point.

LordMortis wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 8:46 pm

Unagi wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 8:07 pm that the GOP is just letting all this happen for reasons .... makes me feel like all could be lost or, rather shows me that the net I thought we had isn't there at all.

If you reduce it this then a hearty and fearful and depressing and angering and... well exhausting... +1.

and another +1

Remus West wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 8:00 am

El Guapo wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:12 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:08 pm

El Guapo wrote:

YellowKing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

Liberals often think Trump supporters such as Barr — and her TV character — are racist

This stuff drives me crazy. It's not just "liberals" who call racists racist. It's anybody who's not a fucking racist. God I hate the constant playing of the victim card. As if in ANY reality I'm going to feel sorry for Roseanne or Donald Trump.

That sentence / paragraph really threw me for a loop. It reads like it's debatable whether one should regard someone as racist because they support racist ideas. Like, isn't that the definition of a racist? If not, who exactly is a racist?

I think you’re getting close to the real gist of many R’s idea on racism with those questions.

Maybe to understand further we should ask the following questions to a few Right thought leaders:

1. Do you believe racism exists in modern America?
2. Does supporting a racist agenda/politician/party make one a racist? An accomplice in racism?
3. Is the term ‘racism’ overused (primarily by the Left), or is it an actual modern American problem that needs to be addressed?

I bet you wouldn’t get past 1. Doubtful most would say it directly, but if you read and listen between the lines, I think the consistent message is “there is no race problem.” You get the sense that they believe that racists pertain only to Nazis and those people in diners from the 60’s who threw food at black kids sitting at their whites only counter after the Civil Rights act was passed.

And I think that people tend to think of it in boxes, like one is either (1) a racist; or (2) not a racist. When in reality this in on a gradation / spectrum, measured by basically the number of racist ideas / stereotypes one agrees with, and how strongly one agrees with them.

You're both ignoring a good portion of the population that thinks either racism is self inflicted or impact more negatively on the white male population than others at this point.

Exhbit A: White Americans are more likely to favor welfare cuts when they believe that their status is threatened and that minorities are the main beneficiaries of safety net programs

White Americans are increasingly critical of the country’s social safety net, a new study suggests, thanks in part to a rising tide of racial resentment.

The study, conducted by researchers at two California universities and published Wednesday in the journal Social Forces, finds that opposition to welfare programs has grown among white Americans since 2008, even when controlling for political views and socioeconomic status.

White Americans are more likely to favor welfare cuts when they believe that their status is threatened and that minorities are the main beneficiaries of safety net programs, the study says.

The findings suggest that political efforts to cut welfare programs are driven less by conservative principles than by racial anxiety, the authors conclude. T hat also hurts white Americans who make up the largest share of Medicaid and food-stamp recipients. President Donald Trump and Congressional Republicans have proposed deep cuts to both programs.

And I can just about guarantee that all those in favor of the cuts would swear that it has nothing to do with race.

Agree that there is a spectrum on racism and that all of us fall somewhere on that spectrum if we are honest with ourselves. Racism is just too inherently ingrained in American culture not to be affected by it.

Also, conservatives, liberals and moderates all want to accuse each other of racism while holding their own racist views (on the spectrum) and justifying these views on side issues instead of being intellectually honest.

In other words we are all hypocrites and liars. If the left really cared they’d be more honest about where they are on the spectrum.

I’m a racist. I’m on the racist spectrum. I grew up with it all around me. Certain types of Black and Hispanic people make me uncomfortable and there is a racial component to it. I try to recognize it and not let it color my interactions with those people but it is always there. I found when I admitted it to myself it was easier to address it and not act racist. But I still get angry when confronted on it.

People who fight so hard not to acknowledge it only prevent themselves from growing by acceptance and then dealing with it.

As someone that lives in a predominantly white state, when someone talks welfare cuts, I'm reminded of the years I spent as a cashier watching other (white) people piss away food stamps by trading them for $0.50 on the dollar so they could buy cigarettes and booze. In my current job we have to almost triple-book state-funded appointments because some poor (white) people just can't be bothered to show up and are fine with crapping on generosity offered to them; book 2.5 people and maybe one will show. I've known a couple (white) people who's grandest ambitions in life are to live off the state teat and do nothing for the rest of their lives. I once worked with a (white) guy who would work for a couple months, get fired, go on unemployment for 6 months, work for a couple months, get fired, go on unemployment for 6 months ... that was his gimmick.

I don't consider race, I consider what I've seen people do. I don't specifically favor cuts, but it'd be nice to feel comfortable in knowing it wasn't being abused or thrown out. I know there are a lot of people that need assistance. There are also a number that somehow avoid detection and milk the system heavily. If you have to cut to force those people out, I'd be okay with that. I know it doesn't work that way, though, and a cut would hurt people who needed it - so I'd rather leave it alone if we can't fix it for some reason.

Of course the slackers are going to make an impression on you, and of course they warp the narrative. (Using them to establish a "Welfare Queen" boogeyman has been a part of right-wing strategy since the beginning.) But you and I don't notice the people who need assistance and are using it appropriately because that pattern doesn't call attention to itself.

For instance: I've spent a good deal of time volunteering in an elementary school where I happen to know that about a third and maybe half the kids are on some sort of assistance. Maybe you can pick them out, but you probably can't; they're just kids in school from families who want them to learn. As far as I'm concerned, every one of those kids cancels out the example of half a dozen adults (and maybe even their parents) blowing their food stamps on junk food or missing opportunities to better themselves.

It really does boil down to personal anecdotal experience, as well as what is more important to an individual: Providing help to those who need it versus withholding help from those who would abuse it.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 1599860736

JFC! This is insane but I guess he needs to wag that pardon power around to send a signal to others. Support me and you'll be fine, don't and you're fucked.

GreenGoo wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 9:07 am It really does boil down to personal anecdotal experience, as well as what is more important to an individual: Providing help to those who need it versus withholding help from those who would abuse it.

This is the main problem in my eyes. I feel no regret offering aid to a group of people knowing that 9 in 10 of them will use it while 1 in 10 will abuse it. I have no issues with welfare because I feel like the numbers abusing it are much much lower than that in reality while the right works very diligently to convince people the number is much higher so those they suceed in convincing want cuts.

Captain Caveman wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 9:29 am

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 1599860736

JFC! This is insane but I guess he needs to wag that pardon power around to send a signal to others. Support me and you'll be fine, don't and you're fucked.

These pardons of popular figures on the right also serve the purpose of strengthening his hold on his base, which he'll need to be airtight once everything comes to light.

But what shouldn't get lost in all of this is that Trump has decided to freely use the pardon as political weapon, and things likely are going to get a lot worse.