Octopus Overlords

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:58 am

$iljanus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:34 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:19 am Oof, Below Decks was a big swing and a miss home run! I could barely make it through any wait for episodes of that one. Talk about sloppy awesome writing.

I fixed a few things for you...

I also enjoyed Discovery a lot but Saru should have kept his captaincy and Tilly needs to be promoted to Lieutenant. I’m hoping that after Saru’s leave of absence perhaps he’ll take back the captain’s chair and Michael was just keeping it warm for a bit.

And I must now apologize to Siljanus. Lower Decks (which I constantly referred to as Below Decks for some reason) grew on me as I watched it. I think it was just so jarring to see an animated Family Guy version of Star Trek (my first impression). But I went back and watched it all recently and I realized that it eventually becomes a pretty decent Star Trek entry. Sure, I still grimace at some of the humor, but it's actually kind of fun to watch this show and view it as one big easter egg for old time fans.

Aww, shucks. Let’s hug it out brotha!

I think we have pretty similar tastes and I’m always amused when we diverge.

hepcat wrote:We all argue, but at the end of the day, it's just all fun and games.

And whether you make that all important Hegemony roll to take control. Easiest way to figure out that quantum regulator is to convince someone the galactic experts to join.

The Federation never figured out how to shoot whomp rats with a T-16 sky hopper. Some flyboy would end up shooting a torpedo down those Jeffries Tubes to blow up the Dilithium crystals. Then the Enterprise is toast. Plus, the Jedi have plot armor as thick as Picard and Kirk.

Now that we gotten all that out of our system, time for some controversy:

Star Wars < Star Trek < Dune

And while I am making enemies. I also don't like Harry Potter (books or movies, they are trash) and am not a fan of Lord of the Rings.

Star Wars is for teenagers.

Star Trek is for adults.

Dune is for adult stoners.

I'm not a huge fan of Harry Potter, but I think that's because I'm too old to have grown up with it. An entire generation grew up with this as their shared cultural touchstone though, so I get it on that level.

Mine were Star Trek and Star Wars....


....and The Man from Atlantis.



Lord of the Rings was also something I grew up on, but mainly due to role playing games and Ralph Bakshi rotoscope movies that were even better when you were high.

I also think Pig Pen from Peanuts should be lawful neutral, that putting on a fake goatee should get you out of any bad situation when cornered, and that everyone on the Seaview from Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea was a moron for letting EVERY GODDAMN INTRUDER on that sub easily get to the nuclear reactor rods. It was like they put up signs reading "this way to the nuclear reactor rods...oh...and dangerous.".

Lastly, I would NOT have liked to have lived in ANY of the Sid and Marty Krofft worlds.

For the love of God, who would want to wake up to this menagerie of horror on a daily basis?



If I were forced to live in THAT damn nightmare, I'd be trying desperately to find a cursed puzzle box so I could call Pinhead and beg for a ride.

But i digest...

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:53 amputting on a fake goatee should get you out of any bad situation when cornered

What if they already have a goatee? Do they stack goatees, or put on a fake chin?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:03 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:53 amputting on a fake goatee should get you out of any bad situation when cornered

What if they already have a goatee? Do they stack goatees, or put on a fake chin?

Then you're already evil, so you're stuck with the eventual outcome.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:53 am Lord of the Rings was also something I grew up on, but mainly due to role playing games and Ralph Bakshi rotoscope movies that were even better when you were high.

I was way too young to get high to the Bakshi LOTRs movies, unless you meant high on pixie sticks, then... ok... yeah. But the 1977 Hobbit was my JAM as a kid (I probably watched it 8 years after it released). That and Krull.

I grew up on Star Wars and Star Trek (mostly TOS). I think this is why I am digging Strange New Worlds so much.

I didn't stumble across the Bakshi stuff until I was in my teens in the eighties. By then I was able to buy what was probably oregano off a classmate and watch it while being (what I thought was) baked, but was most likely me just smelling like a burned lasagna dish.

Speaking of which (Bakshi, not oregano) check out Spine of the Night for a fantastic throwback to that great animator's work.

Rotoscoped animation is shit. Don't @ me.

What does "@" mean in internet jargon? I'm not up to speed on all the lingo you internet kids are into these days.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:24 pm What does "@" mean in internet jargon? I'm not up to speed on all the lingo you internet kids are into these days.

Is it short for aggravate?

You kids today and your internet speak. Back when I was a kid, we had two: "lol" and ":)" That was it. We couldn't afford 75 emojis for the word "soup". Times were tough and we had to make do with whatever we had. Why, I remember one time only using a semi colon instead of a WHOLE colon in a smiley face because I ran out of money!

Sheesh, bunch of pampered babies these days. Why I oughta....

Robots don’t have an age. They are always updated with the memes.

I’m enjoying this thread mainly to see hepcat squirm about his fandom.

We should all unite on one thing — JJ Abrams should never be allowed to touch another fandom. Ever.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:24 pm What does "@" mean in internet jargon? I'm not up to speed on all the lingo you internet kids are into these days.

I'm pretty sure it is just his code showing. Probably some sort of variable to insert dialogue from a specified list.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:24 pm What does "@" mean in internet jargon? I'm not up to speed on all the lingo you internet kids are into these days.

It's a character used as the first character of a username for tagging people on some social media platforms. The phrase is used as an indicator that I will not be discussing the topic further.

Ah, I think I saw one of Benjamin Franklin’s original designs for the United States flag that had that.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:29 pm You kids today and your internet speak. Back when I was a kid, we had two: "lol" and ":)" That was it. We couldn't afford 75 emojis for the word "soup". Times were tough and we had to make do with whatever we had. Why, I remember one time only using a semi colon instead of a WHOLE colon in a smiley face because I ran out of money!

Sheesh, bunch of pampered babies these days. Why I oughta....

Back in the day, an eggplant emoji meant just eggplant...

$iljanus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:23 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:29 pm You kids today and your internet speak. Back when I was a kid, we had two: "lol" and ":)" That was it. We couldn't afford 75 emojis for the word "soup". Times were tough and we had to make do with whatever we had. Why, I remember one time only using a semi colon instead of a WHOLE colon in a smiley face because I ran out of money!

Sheesh, bunch of pampered babies these days. Why I oughta....

Back in the day, an eggplant emoji meant just eggplant...

I think we all know that Benjamin Franklin would have TOTALLY used the Eggplant emoji the same way we do.

baelthazar wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:55 pm

$iljanus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:23 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:29 pm You kids today and your internet speak. Back when I was a kid, we had two: "lol" and ":)" That was it. We couldn't afford 75 emojis for the word "soup". Times were tough and we had to make do with whatever we had. Why, I remember one time only using a semi colon instead of a WHOLE colon in a smiley face because I ran out of money!

Sheesh, bunch of pampered babies these days. Why I oughta....

Back in the day, an eggplant emoji meant just eggplant...

I think we all know that Benjamin Franklin would have TOTALLY used the Eggplant emoji the same way we do.

He was a total player back in the day.

Well, I finally got around to watching Season 4 of Discovery.

And I liked it. Maybe a sight improvement on the previous season (which I had felt was a significant improvement on Season 2, which in turn was a significant improvement on Season 1. Though I do miss Georgiou). One thing I really did like, however, was the mathiness in the second to last episode.

I always like inserting math/science into sci-fi, and this did it well (it reminded me somewhat of Darmok)

That said, one thing that's growing tiring is the references to the previous series. I mean, the Archer one (with the music) was nice, but between names of ships and such naming characters from the other series, and referencing only the Enterprise and Voyager when discussing some phenomena is just weird. You've got like 900 years of history and all the references come from the shows we've watched?

Also, the show needs much more Reno.

Defiant wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:28 pm Also, the show needs much more Reno.

You are wise, my friend.

So I finished watching Picard Season 2...

And it was merely mediocre.

The Q part was pretty good. And the Borg Queen and Guinan were good.

The parts with Soong were awful.

I would have rather have seen some more of the alternate future, rather than have an episode in the present day where Rios gets hurt because of poor teleport aiming and spends the episode getting captured and rescued.

Season 3 trailer. Spoilers in it.

The trailer looks decent, but Picard season 2 cost them every single ounce of credibility that they had with me, so I'd be surprised if it's even just mediocre.

I mean, I’ll watch it. But yeah…season 2 sucked goat ass.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:15 pm The trailer looks decent, but Picard season 2 cost them every single ounce of credibility that they had with me, so I'd be surprised if it's even just mediocre.

Yeah, I agree with you. The thing is, this is quite clearly the movie version of Picard, and with Season 2 in particular, they've tried too hard to reconcile it with the TNG version, and I feel it doesn't really work. It fell flat on almost every level. And my worry with this final season is that because they filmed it back to back with season 2, that they wouldn't have fixed or picked up on the issues with season 2, and it could fall into the same traps.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:12 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:15 pm The trailer looks decent, but Picard season 2 cost them every single ounce of credibility that they had with me, so I'd be surprised if it's even just mediocre.

Yeah, I agree with you. The thing is, this is quite clearly the movie version of Picard, and with Season 2 in particular, they've tried too hard to reconcile it with the TNG version, and I feel it doesn't really work. It fell flat on almost every level. And my worry with this final season is that because they filmed it back to back with season 2, that they wouldn't have fixed or picked up on the issues with season 2, and it could fall into the same traps.

I mean, it's going to take place in space rather than 21st century Los Angeles, at least, which is a step in the right direction for a Star Trek show.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:43 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:12 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:15 pm The trailer looks decent, but Picard season 2 cost them every single ounce of credibility that they had with me, so I'd be surprised if it's even just mediocre.

Yeah, I agree with you. The thing is, this is quite clearly the movie version of Picard, and with Season 2 in particular, they've tried too hard to reconcile it with the TNG version, and I feel it doesn't really work. It fell flat on almost every level. And my worry with this final season is that because they filmed it back to back with season 2, that they wouldn't have fixed or picked up on the issues with season 2, and it could fall into the same traps.

I mean, it's going to take place in space rather than 21st century Los Angeles, at least, which is a step in the right direction for a Star Trek show.

And it looks like they finally got the whole band back together. That's what viewers want from Picard. S2 wasn't as awful as I'd been led to expect, but it sure wasn't good. I won't keep my Paramount subscription just to see S3. I'm planning to cancel it again after the current season of Lower Decks completes.

S4 of Discovery was better than Picard, and true to Roddenberry's philosophy of avoiding conflict and violence. There was no real villain. The people who opposed one another, loved and didn't want to hurt one another. People who are at odds all have good intentions. The mysterious big bad aliens, who were lifted straight out of "Arrival," turned out to be big softies. Despite all of this Roddenberry-correctness, there was enough mystery and peril to keep us engaged. So it succeeded even if all the kumbaya stuff got a little cloying sometimes.

Also, Discovery has a sentient starship named Zora and Farscape had one named Moira (IIRC), so that was suspicious.

Really liking Brave New Worlds after the first two episodes, though.

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:09 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:43 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:12 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:15 pm The trailer looks decent, but Picard season 2 cost them every single ounce of credibility that they had with me, so I'd be surprised if it's even just mediocre.

Yeah, I agree with you. The thing is, this is quite clearly the movie version of Picard, and with Season 2 in particular, they've tried too hard to reconcile it with the TNG version, and I feel it doesn't really work. It fell flat on almost every level. And my worry with this final season is that because they filmed it back to back with season 2, that they wouldn't have fixed or picked up on the issues with season 2, and it could fall into the same traps.

I mean, it's going to take place in space rather than 21st century Los Angeles, at least, which is a step in the right direction for a Star Trek show.

And it looks like they finally got the whole band back together. That's what viewers want from Picard.

Sure, but the cynic in me worries it might be too little too late. I think it's something we've wanted since they announced Picard, but they've made many misteps both with S1 and S2 to the point of feeling like maybe the writers don't really get it. Part of me also feels worried about these writers touching these characters.

The 10c were the best aliens ever. And no not the band dang-it that's got an extra c!! 10cc. But they are a great band.

I love seeing the remaining old cast members on screen, but the trailer makes it feel like just more Picard, so my expectations are low. I'll try to avoid any "killed my childhood" hyperbole after I see it. I think the "this is movie Picard, not TV series Picard" observation is apt.

There's some possible hope in that Terry Matalas is the showrunner of season three though. But given that it was shot back-to-back with season two I don't expect it will have been a big enough shake-up to differentiate the final season. It's all going to be in the writing.

Yeah, the shooting back-to-back is what really worries me. When something is good and firing on all cylinders, I wouldn't have any qualms about shooting back to back, but when something isn't, you'd hope they would be able to take a step back and address issues, even delaying if necessary. And because they shot back-to-back, they'll be using many of the same techniques as last season, ie cast split off into groups, and we'll likely not get some of the meetups we're hoping to get.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:43 pm Yeah, the shooting back-to-back is what really worries me. When something is good and firing on all cylinders, I wouldn't have any qualms about shooting back to back, but when something isn't, you'd hope they would be able to take a step back and address issues, even delaying if necessary. And because they shot back-to-back, they'll be using many of the same techniques as last season, ie cast split off into groups, and we'll likely not get some of the meetups we're hoping to get.

Unless they had a different writing team working on season 3, I just don't see how it would be possible to go from "Jurati in a 2020s Los Angeles parking lot eating car batteries" to decent Star Trek if they're shooting back to back.

Yeah, that worries me too. Much of Picard has been very nonsensical in its plotting. Season 2 felt very disconnected. Logic has all but fled out the airlock. It's a far cry from the stories written for TNG, and while some of those stories were crazy, they all had a certain understandable logic to them. Having all these characters back kind of makes me anxious, and not in a good way. Seeing how the writers have handled some of the characters in Season 2, makes me hope they don't shoehorn uncharacteristic aspects into them. I really would hate for them to mishandle the characters. On the other hand, the meeting between Picard, Riker and Troi was really nice. I hope it's more of that. But the moment it veers into stupid nonsense, I'll cringe.

Ditch everyone but Elnor. Play up the mentor angle between the two. Add a line about how the conclusion of season 1 and all of season 2 were hallucinations brought on by poisonous space spores or something. Bring back all the original cast and hire a screenwriter who has actually watched a Star Trek show...or any show, for that matter.

Finally, take my fan fiction seriously and start the casting process for my Odd Couple-like spec script about a sentient Tribble and a Horta living in a two bedroom walk up in Fresno. I wanna go with "What's Tribbling You?" for the show name but I'm willing to work with the producers on that.

Yeah, I would love if they'd have hired a screenwriter who worked on TNG. It's been frustrating because Picard deserves so much better than this crap. I mean, I don't mind Seven, and I kind of wish they would have brought in more alumni from Voyager and DS9 and make it a celebration of 24th Century Trek. Instead most of what we got was a dark and depressing introspection on Picard's life and inability to rise up. Enough of that! We know Picard is past his prime, but I'd hope the series can end on a good note, and maybe show us a bit beyond. Show us what some of the galaxy's been up to! Seriously, I'm rather surprised they haven't shown the galaxy very much beyond the Borg and the Romulans. It's been focused way too much on Picard.

It's ironic, really. TNG was one of the strongest Trek shows. Yet Picard has felt strangely Trek-lite.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:23 pm Yeah, that worries me too. Much of Picard has been very nonsensical in its plotting. Season 2 felt very disconnected. Logic has all but fled out the airlock. It's a far cry from the stories written for TNG, and while some of those stories were crazy, they all had a certain understandable logic to them. Having all these characters back kind of makes me anxious, and not in a good way. Seeing how the writers have handled some of the characters in Season 2, makes me hope they don't shoehorn uncharacteristic aspects into them. I really would hate for them to mishandle the characters. On the other hand, the meeting between Picard, Riker and Troi was really nice. I hope it's more of that. But the moment it veers into stupid nonsense, I'll cringe.

I will say that I liked season 1 well enough. It wasn't the greatest Trek show of all time, and there were parts that were pretty dumb, but overall I enjoyed it. To the extent that season 3 is Picard and the TNG gang exploring some mystery in space, I doubt that I'll hate it. It just won't be what it could have been.

We recently finished S2 of Picard and echo your thoughts--it was not great. Very much enjoying Chris 'Hairdo' Pike in SNW, though.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:04 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:23 pm Yeah, that worries me too. Much of Picard has been very nonsensical in its plotting. Season 2 felt very disconnected. Logic has all but fled out the airlock. It's a far cry from the stories written for TNG, and while some of those stories were crazy, they all had a certain understandable logic to them. Having all these characters back kind of makes me anxious, and not in a good way. Seeing how the writers have handled some of the characters in Season 2, makes me hope they don't shoehorn uncharacteristic aspects into them. I really would hate for them to mishandle the characters. On the other hand, the meeting between Picard, Riker and Troi was really nice. I hope it's more of that. But the moment it veers into stupid nonsense, I'll cringe.

I will say that I liked season 1 well enough. It wasn't the greatest Trek show of all time, and there were parts that were pretty dumb, but overall I enjoyed it. To the extent that season 3 is Picard and the TNG gang exploring some mystery in space, I doubt that I'll hate it. It just won't be what it could have been.

Season 1 was decent enough as far as Picard goes. Though it had more of a generic feel, and most of the Trek trappings felt absent. That's why I think so many of us were excited for the glimpses of the Stargazer in Season 2, though they amounted to very little and it went back to non-descript ship design. I think a big problem with the show is that it ends up feeling like Trek-Not-Trek. It has a setting and scenario so rich and ripe for exploring, but what little it does with it is fleeting, and it ends up feeling so far removed from the Universe it's in. It has great potential, but I feel it often squanders it with nonsensical writing.

It's like getting back together with friends after so many years, and I do want to see these characters again in some fashion, to see what they've been up to after all these years. But at the same time, sometimes it's better off not knowing.

Holy shit. Make sure to watch right till the end (if you don't mind presumably major spoilers). That's two characters I did not expect to ever see again. Yes, this is going to be disappointing. It will probably be horrible. But I'm hopeful it will surpass the first two seasons on account of nostalgia alone. From the trailer it seems they could have done worse. Low bar, I know.

I think going the Khan/First Contact/etc. scenery-chewing-main-villain route may be a mistake, especially as I presume whatever history the characters have will be manufactured (unlike Wrath of Khan in which there was at least real on-screen history), but the actor does seem to be an inspired choice, and not just for the family connection.

From the trailer I think it does feel a little more like TNG-era Trek, mind you it's post-Generations movie TNG if anything. I wonder how many meaningless sacrifices there will be?