Pope Francis, changing Christianity?

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:38 pm

stessier wrote:I'm curious who he is arguing against. Is there a group out there supporting unequal pay?

Employers.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:40 pm

Alefroth wrote:
stessier wrote:I'm curious who he is arguing against. Is there a group out there supporting unequal pay?
Employers.

None of the ones I've heard of.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:48 pm

My guess is that while most people give lip service to equal pay for equal work, there's still a disparity in pay, and he's saying we need to do something about that.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:56 pm

I think we need to define what we mean by equal pay for equal work.

In the salary ranks, it just doesn't work that way. Anywhere that gives raises based on a percentage increase, women will fall behind if they take time off for having children. Or what about negotiating for pay? Some people are good at it, some aren't. I don't know if there is a gender effect, but that will effect it as well. Heck, two guys can be doing the same job and not get paid the same in the salary world.

Hourly workers are a bit more straightforward but even then reviews can make a difference. Over a workforce I could see it averaging out (there are as many good reviews as bad for each gender), but individuals can still be outliers.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:57 pm

Cue Nox to explain to us it's not gender that is causing the gap, but the behaviour that genders typically engage in that is the problem. I.e. less seniority/experience due to maternity leave and such.

It's a compelling argument, but I'm not sold on it, yet.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:07 pm

It's definitely complicated - no argument there. I agree with a lot of Nox's points on the cause, in fact. I was just trying to point out that the Pope isn't necessarily arguing against anyone trying to maintain the wage gap - he's just trying to build additional pressure to close the wage gap.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:16 pm

I guess my point is I'm not sure how much of a gap actually exists. More pressure to at least look at the issue is good. I'm just not going to be all that disappointed/shocked to learn there's little to be done.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:21 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Cue Nox to explain to us it's not gender that is causing the gap, but the behaviour that genders typically engage in that is the problem. I.e. less seniority/experience due to maternity leave and such.

It's a compelling argument, but I'm not sold on it, yet.

Partly. The studies are pretty clear that all but 7% can be accounted for when experience and education are accounted for. However, there is still a 7% "gap."

The best guess I've heard is that women do not negotiate salary as hard as men do. There are studies that back that up. It is unknown why. It may be perception (they won't pay me any more). Some may be estrogen vs. testosterone. Some may be society (women take more time off to take care of the kids and don't pursue networking/career as aggressively).

I have yet to see the company that consistently pays anybody more than they have to, so I have difficulty believing it is because they like men better.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:41 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:I like hearing that from the Pope. Maybe he should expand that whole women's rights thing into the priesthood, though . . . .

(Am I going to get excommunicated for that?)

My wife's uncle wrote a whole book on Faithful Dissent in the Catholic Church and helped start a group advocating for women priests. He died a member of the church with 10 different priests vying to conduct his funeral rites.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:31 pm

Gay sex is compared to sticking a bagel in your ear at Catholic conference.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:33 pm

Moliere wrote:Gay sex is compared to sticking a bagel in your ear at Catholic conference.

Do you like cream cheese on your bagel?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:38 pm

Rather, Catholics are bringing the “good news” of the gospel and Jesus Christ, he said. He compared leading gays out of same-sex relations to Moses leading people out of slavery in Egypt.

...

“This is the question which is asked by junior-high kids: Why does God hate gays?” Riccardo said. Riccardo said he responds in terms that can relate to younger folks without being too explicit.

“Here’s the image that I use,” Riccardo said. He said he tells the students, what if ‘I just rip open a bagel, I take it, and I cram it in my ear. What would you say?’

He said, the kids respond: “That doesn’t go there.”

“I say, ‘Exactly.’ ”

“That will ruin your ear canal,” Riccardo said.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:41 pm

Ugh.

At the conference, a popular Catholic priest in metro Detroit, the Rev. John Riccardo of Our Lady of Good Counsel Parish in Plymouth, told about how a family member of his wrestles with how to deal with a gay child.

I hope he's telling them to seek advice from someone that actually cares. I cannot ever imagine uttering the phrase, "Help me deal with my gay child."

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:39 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Ugh.

At the conference, a popular Catholic priest in metro Detroit, the Rev. John Riccardo of Our Lady of Good Counsel Parish in Plymouth, told about how a family member of his wrestles with how to deal with a gay child.
I hope he's telling them to seek advice from someone that actually cares. I cannot ever imagine uttering the phrase, "Help me deal with my gay child."

Nah. Of course not.

Riccardo said the family member allows the gay partner of her child into her home and doesn’t exclude her. Riccardo said his family member has said: “If this person doesn’t come in my house, they may never hear the gospel. ... I want them to encounter Jesus.”
...
At the same time, his family member “is very firm and clear with her child,” Riccardo said. She said she tells her child “when you are here, you will not sleep together (with your gay partner) ... because I think that’s harmful and here are the reasons why.”

Come listen to me proselytize but no sex. Love the sinner, hate the horrific abomination of nature that makes up much of their identity.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:36 pm

Goes without saying. The prospect of getting caught having sex at your parent's house is harmful at any age -- regardless of orientation.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:35 am

Pope Francis Meets Sex-Abuse Victims, Expresses ‘Solidarity’ for Their Suffering

while also allowing this:

U.S. priests accused of sex abuse get second chance in South America

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:38 am

Moliere wrote:Pope Francis Meets Sex-Abuse Victims, Expresses ‘Solidarity’ for Their Suffering

while also allowing this:

U.S. priests accused of sex abuse get second chance in South America

If that isn't a politician I don't know what is.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:29 pm

Rip wrote:
Moliere wrote:Pope Francis Meets Sex-Abuse Victims, Expresses ‘Solidarity’ for Their Suffering

while also allowing this:

U.S. priests accused of sex abuse get second chance in South America
If that isn't a politician I don't know what is.

Why hasn't your country put them in jail?

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:49 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Why hasn't your country put them in jail?

Because they're not minorities using drugs.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:55 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Rip wrote:
Moliere wrote:Pope Francis Meets Sex-Abuse Victims, Expresses ‘Solidarity’ for Their Suffering

while also allowing this:

U.S. priests accused of sex abuse get second chance in South America
If that isn't a politician I don't know what is.
Why hasn't your country put them in jail?

That annoying due process and/or cash payouts.

Another priest we tracked down, Father Federico Fernandez Baeza, was indicted by a grand jury in 1987 on two second-degree felony charges of indecency with a child. A family in San Antonio, Texas accused Fernandez in a civil lawsuit of ritually raping two brothers over a two-year period. Prosecutors dropped the criminal case after the diocese of San Antonio reportedly paid the family more than $1 million.

Well, and one of the five did his molesting in Belgium (allegedly). Can't put him in jail here.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:48 am

I like due process, and that was my point.

Now bribing the victims is a different matter.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:55 pm

Good job Frank, way to show you're different than the previous popes.

Vatican fires gay priest from his post on eve of synod

The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:04 pm

Moliere wrote:Good job Frank, way to show you're different than the previous popes.

Vatican fires gay priest from his post on eve of synod

The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.

It is a New Day in the Catholic Church.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:15 pm

Moliere wrote:Good job Frank, way to show you're different than the previous popes.

Vatican fires gay priest from his post on eve of synod

The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.

From what I've read, he's not just gay, he's in a relationship (i.e. not remaining celibate). If he had disclosed that he was in a such a relationship with a woman, would he have remained in his position? Should he have immunity from the repercussions of violating his vows just because he's gay?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:00 pm

In don't understand. The Catholic church has not changed its stance on homosexuality, and it is still considered a sin.

What did you expect would happen?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:25 pm

GreenGoo wrote:In don't understand. The Catholic church has not changed its stance on homosexuality, and it is still considered a sin.

What did you expect would happen?

Cover it up for half a century?

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:32 pm

GreenGoo wrote:In don't understand. The Catholic church has not changed its stance on homosexuality, and it is still considered a sin.

What did you expect would happen?

Me? I'm questioning why this is only being framed in the context of a priest being dismissed from a Vatican postion because he announced that he was gay, when it seems likely that a heterosexual priest who announced to the world that he was in a sexual relationship with a woman would also have been dismissed.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:40 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Moliere wrote:Good job Frank, way to show you're different than the previous popes.

Vatican fires gay priest from his post on eve of synod

The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.
From what I've read, he's not just gay, he's in a relationship (i.e. not remaining celibate). If he had disclosed that he was in a such a relationship with a woman, would he have remained in his position? Should he have immunity from the repercussions of violating his vows just because he's gay?

Exactly.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:23 am

Max Peck wrote:
Moliere wrote:Good job Frank, way to show you're different than the previous popes.

Vatican fires gay priest from his post on eve of synod

The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.
From what I've read, he's not just gay, he's in a relationship (i.e. not remaining celibate). If he had disclosed that he was in a such a relationship with a woman, would he have remained in his position? Should he have immunity from the repercussions of violating his vows just because he's gay?

Well, if only this other male was a child, then we would just see the priest moved to a new parish, right? Not lose his job.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:35 am

Unagi wrote:
Max Peck wrote:
Moliere wrote:Good job Frank, way to show you're different than the previous popes.

Vatican fires gay priest from his post on eve of synod

The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.
From what I've read, he's not just gay, he's in a relationship (i.e. not remaining celibate). If he had disclosed that he was in a such a relationship with a woman, would he have remained in his position? Should he have immunity from the repercussions of violating his vows just because he's gay?
Well, if only this other male was a child, then we would just see the priest moved to a new parish, right? Not lose his job.

Admitting you're dismissing a priest because they were in a legal, consensual sexual relationship is not a huge thing. It doesn't need covering up. Admitting you're dismissing them because they criminally abused minors while hiding behind the cloth is a different matter.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:38 am

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:41 am

I would think admitting you failed to dismiss them because they criminally abused minors while hiding behind the cloth would be even worse.

But hey glass houses and stones and all. If he is going to be lecturing everyone else he should expect a good dose of his own house being thrown under the light.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:12 pm

Rip wrote:I would think admitting you failed to dismiss them because they criminally abused minors while hiding behind the cloth would be even worse.

Institutionally? Probably. But when you're an individual bishop or cardinal or whatever administrator, hope to cover the whole thing up springs eternal. Especially when you've seen it done successfully before.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:03 pm

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri May 06, 2016 3:38 pm

I have a dream

On Friday, Pope Francis delivered his own “I have a dream” address, in this case dedicated to Europe, calling the continent to undergo a “memory transfusion” to avoid the mistakes of the past and to pursue a future based on economic justice, openness to newcomers, respect for life in all its stages, and dialogue with everyone.

“I dream of a Europe that is young, still capable of being a mother: a mother who has life because she respects life and offers hope for life,” Francis said on Friday, as he was accepting the prestigious Charlemagne Prize, given yearly to personalities or institutions for their efforts towards European unity.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri May 06, 2016 9:42 pm

Giving a pope the "Charlemagne Prize" is just one of history's little ironies...

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:33 pm

Spreading Fake News?

Pope Francis compared media outlets that spread disinformation and cover scandals to smear politicians to people who become aroused by excrement.

In an interview with the Belgian Catholic weekly "Tertio," Francis said scandal-mongering media outlets risk falling prey to coprophilia, or arousal from excrement, and the consumers risk coprophagia, or eating excrement.

"I think the media have to be very clear, very transparent, and not fall into — no offense intended — the sickness of coprophilia, that is, always wanting to cover scandals, covering nasty things, even if they are true," he said, according to Reuters.

"And since people have a tendency towards the sickness of coprophagia, a lot of damage can be done."

The pope also warned that spreading disinformation is "probably the greatest damage that the media can do" because "it directs opinion in only one direction and omits the other part of the truth."

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:01 pm

His Holiness Pope Francis: "Stop eating shit."

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:03 pm

The Knights of Malta, better known as the Knights Hospitaller heavy cavalry unit in Medieval 2: Total War, just got the Francis treatment.

The showdown between the Vatican and the Knights of Malta has come to a brusque end, with the leader of the historic sovereign order resigning at the apparent request of Pope Francis.

In a statement Wednesday, the Vatican said the pontiff would also be taking over control of the order with the appointment of a new papal delegate in the coming days.
***
The resignation caps an unusually tense month for the prestigious Catholic lay order, which had been openly resisting a Vatican investigation into Festing's firing of one of their top officials. At times it seemed that one of Catholicism's most storied organizations was challenging the authority and power of the pope.

In case you were wondering what the Knights of Malta wear into (bureaucratic) battle these days:

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:11 pm

AWS260 wrote:

A girdle one size too large?