Chevy Bolt EV

[malchior]

You don't have a lemon, you have a vehicle that GM is quite clearly suggesting is a major fire hazard.

No, no it's "rare" according to them.

'Don't park inside anywhere, even in a parking garage' and 'keep 50 feet away from all other vehicles when parking' are quite another.

Yet here they are giving the customer guidance that is intended to try to protect GM from the inevitable lawsuits by the *insurers*. This whole thing is a subrogation nightmare to begin with and GM now looks completely negligent. I can't help but wonder when this guidance blows up in their face to be honest. "It was so dangerous that they told people to park 50 feet from other vehicles!"

GM continuing to slow-roll this while people are deprived of major functionality (parking at home!), and are unable to fix or sell their vehicles is a whole other category than owner X having a lemon. The inevitable class-action lawsuits will be un-fun for GM. I understand they're in a very tough position, but at this point it's going to cost GM and/or LG a major percentage of all the money they've received selling Bolts either way. It seems that making owners whole wouldn't be a huge increase in that cost. We'll see.

This is why GM is panicking. They just closed out their last bankruptcy cases, they had some in the press calling them the best run car company post financial crisis, and then this. They're just reeling. Announcing a buyback would open the floodgates and might overwhelm their cash flow. I think they'd rather let the lawsuits fly to contain the balance sheet damage to spread it over time. They are probably in a very cynical space here.

[Zaxxon]

You don't have a lemon, you have a vehicle that GM is quite clearly suggesting is a major fire hazard.

No, no it's "rare" according to them.

It absolutely is rare. But either it's rare enough for GM to not make such outrageous recommendations, or it's not.

[Isgrimnur]

"My roadside emergency kit consists solely of marshmallows, chocolate bars, and a box of Graham crackers."

[malchior]

You don't have a lemon, you have a vehicle that GM is quite clearly suggesting is a major fire hazard.

No, no it's "rare" according to them.

It absolutely is rare. But either it's rare enough for GM to not make such outrageous recommendations, or it's not.

Yep - that was heavily sarcastic. I was trying to say exactly that. I think GM is just way off the page on the messaging here and taking some educated guesses at why.

[stessier]

As for the buyback track - easier said than done. It's taking people months and they base it on the state's lemon laws. South Carolina is horrible in this regard - I'd probably get enough to cover the loan (currently 25% of the original sales price), but nowhere near what I've put into it or enough to get something to replace it (which would be a Model 3 or perhaps Y). So I sit and wait.

I know, and that's my point. You don't have a lemon, you have a vehicle that GM is quite clearly suggesting is a major fire hazard. The initial 'don't charge to 100%' and avoiding deep discharge-to-full charges unsupervised were one thing. 'Don't park inside anywhere, even in a parking garage' and 'keep 50 feet away from all other vehicles when parking' are quite another.

GM continuing to slow-roll this while people are deprived of major functionality (parking at home!), and are unable to fix or sell their vehicles is a whole other category than owner X having a lemon. The inevitable class-action lawsuits will be un-fun for GM. I understand they're in a very tough position, but at this point it's going to cost GM and/or LG a major percentage of all the money they've received selling Bolts either way. It seems that making owners whole wouldn't be a huge increase in that cost. We'll see.

What pushed me to this view is seeing Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield losing it. She's one of the most level-headed people in the BEV space, she and her spouse are long-time dual-Bolt owners who initially were super-patient with GM, and she's had it. That tells me that we're well past 'reasonable to wait and let it play out' territory.

Of course I don't have a Bolt and am viewing all of this from the periphery, so it's entirely possible I'm misreading it.

No, I think that is a fair read. On the Bolt message board before this latest announcement, I'd estimate it was 70/30 to allow GM time and they would make it right. The 30% were vocal, but still a minority. Now, though, it's probably 80/20 against GM. The 50' boundary rule is just so unworkable in the real world and so clearly aimed at shifting liability that people are fed up. More people say they are signing up to try for the buyback, but given that process was already overloaded, it's unclear when they'll hear back. There is also a shift to a majority thinking this is the end of the Bolt badge and it's only a matter of time before GM has to issue a full buyback offer. I don't think that's true, but I guess we'll see.

[stessier]

Battery production has resumed.. Looks like first battery replacements will start in October and new diagnostic software is also on the way. Really hope they still intend to replace all batteries and not just ones they suspect might be bad.

[Zaxxon]

This new software, which will be provided to all Bolt EV and EUV owners, requires dealer installation. Owners will be able to start to schedule installation at their Chevy EV dealer in approximately 60 days.

FFS, GM.

[stessier]

This new software, which will be provided to all Bolt EV and EUV owners, requires dealer installation. Owners will be able to start to schedule installation at their Chevy EV dealer in approximately 60 days.

FFS, GM.

For your further outrage. Sure seems like not everyone is getting a new battery.

As cell production under LG's revised processes ramps up, GM will start to replace battery modules in existing Bolt vehicles. The company said it would "prioritize Chevy Bolt EV and EUV customers whose batteries were manufactured during specific build time frames" in which the company believes "the defects appear to be clustered."

Affected Bolt EVs will receive a full set of new battery modules. Owners of 2017–2019 Bolt EVs whose modules are replaced will see the rated range of their cars rise from 238 to 259 miles. That comes from replacing the cars' original cells with a newer and more energy-dense cell, boosting pack capacity from 60.0 to 65.0 kWh.

GM did not offer any estimates on how many vehicles it believed would require battery replacement, or how long the replacement of all affected Bolt modules would take. Chevrolet will notify “affected customers,” which is to say owners of existing Bolts, when new modules are available for their batteries.

Now that LG will be starting to supply replacement battery hardware, GM will also roll out new diagnostic software to be installed in every Bolt that monitors an expanded set of battery performance data. The goal is to look at more indicators than the existing software does, so the cars can alert drivers of any unusual readings in its battery’s electrical performance.

The program will detect "specific abnormalities that might indicate a damaged battery" and, GM says, will let the company prioritize damaged modules for replacement. Getting that software installed in a Bolt will require a visit to the Chevrolet dealership, however. Customers can start to schedule those visits in roughly 60 days, during the second half of November.

Meanwhile, the new software will limit charging to 80 percent of rated capacity until it has fully analyzed the behavior of all modules. After that, future diagnostic software to come will gradually increase the charge percentage as the pack continues to perform appropriately, with the final goal being to offer recharges up to 100 percent of capacity once again.

[malchior]

Since they know where the problem is 'clustered' I assume they'll be quickly notifying unaffected less likely to have bad battery pack owners that they don't need to park at the edge of parking lots, right?

[stessier]

Since they know where the problem is 'clustered' I assume they'll be quickly notifying unaffected less likely to have bad battery pack owners that they don't need to park at the edge of parking lots, right?

Yeah, part of the announcement was that if you are following the charging rules, you can park anywhere you want (except inside your garage).

[Zaxxon]

Since they know where the problem is 'clustered' I assume they'll be quickly notifying unaffected less likely to have bad battery pack owners that they don't need to park at the edge of parking lots, right?

I think part of the issue is that they need this new diagnostic software (coming in the next 60 days, and only installed after a dealer visit) to really know that. So they aren't going to have significant coverage of that new data for several months. They thought they knew where the problem was via manufacturing dates before, and were wrong.

It is difficult to overstate the impact of this fuckup. Parking lots with signs now banning the Bolt, high media coverage such that it's even meriting mention in relatively unrelated coverage of our local utility's new EV incentives, etc. Not at all helping the overall image of EVs, at a time when adoption is poised to skyrocket. Hopefully it doesn't hamper that.

For your further outrage.

So yeah, you could say I'm a little outraged. GM is doing huge harm to a cause I've been working toward for the better part of a decade. I understand the business reasons for half-assing the customer response ($$), but it would have been far better to offer to take back the cars at whatever cost made the owners whole when it became clear that significant use restrictions were going to be in place for an extended period.

[stessier]

I thought you would have been more upset with limiting the charging to 80% for "some amount of time with the eventual goal of getting back to 100%". Shoot, that make me mad - particularly if they say "we see no problem with your batteries - no new modules for you."

My car was made 8/2018. The "problem lot" is 9/2018-11/2018. I'm skeptical they know this for sure.

[malchior]

Since they know where the problem is 'clustered' I assume they'll be quickly notifying unaffected less likely to have bad battery pack owners that they don't need to park at the edge of parking lots, right?

Yeah, part of the announcement was that if you are following the charging rules, you can park anywhere you want (except inside your garage).

That's good news - but it begs a question. Why make this 50 foot announcement and slightly less then a week later change the guidance in a huge way? I have to think the management/board needs to take a look at who made the call on that and how this crisis was mismanaged. As Zaxxon just mentioned this is possibly deeply damaging and to see them giving very shaky guidance doesn't inspire confidence in that management team.

Edit: FWIW this is an area of my expertise. I focus on cybersecurity incident management mostly but have built enterprise incident management plans, participated in wargames at some of the biggest companies in the world, and this smells like a world class fuck up to me.

[Zaxxon]

I thought you would have been more upset with limiting the charging to 80% for "some amount of time with the eventual goal of getting back to 100%". Shoot, that make me mad - particularly if they say "we see no problem with your batteries - no new modules for you."

My car was made 8/2018. The "problem lot" is 9/2018-11/2018. I'm skeptical they know this for sure.

It's all of it--that's definitely a part. They have effectively made the car have something like 160 miles of range (I forget the exact calc), you can't park in your own garage, you can't charge overnight, etc etc. It all plays directly into the naysayers, who love to point out the perceived shortcomings of EVs (less convenient than gas, gimped range, range anxiety, perceived fire hazard).

You and I know that for most people, even with these restrictions it's still a solid car for a large portion of the population, and still has a lower overall fire risk than most ICE-powered vehicles. But the misinformation aura is strong, and made all the stronger when fed with grains of truth. This is a major own-goal for the transition, and I can't help but feel that GM is kneecaping their own effort here. Whatever the incremental cost would have been to treat these early-adopter owners right, sure seems to me that it's a drop in the bucket relative to the much-increased volume they're counting on for Ultium vehicles.

Yes, those are going to have different battery tech, but how many people are going to rush into a GM dealer to buy an EV after this debacle, when there are perceived-to-be more-competent alternatives from Tesla and VW (primarily)? Their own continued existence as a major manufacturer depends on this event not turning off a large portion of potential customers. That is not an exaggeration at this point.

Edit: FWIW this is an area of my expertise. I focus on cybersecurity incident management mostly but have built enterprise incident management plans, participated in wargames at some of the biggest companies in the world, and this smells like a world class fuck up to me.

[Zaxxon]

Bolt battery replacements quietly started last week. Also, LG is indeed on the hook for the bulk of the costs.

[stessier]

Yeah, I got an email and a snail mail letter in the last week. I think I'm in the second batch (the first is "these are most likely to burst into flames"). Be nice if it got done before the winter really sets in so I could park inside the garage again.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, I got an email and a snail mail letter in the last week. I think I'm in the second batch (the first is "these are most likely to burst into flames"). Be nice if it got done before the winter really sets in so I could park inside the garage again.

Well, if not at least it'll be cold should any flames arise.

[stessier]

Well I'll be - just got a call from my dealership that I'm one of the first ones to get fixed. They ordered the battery today. It usually takes 7 days to arrive - then they'll call and schedule a service appointment. Be really nice to have that taken care of before the holidays!

[Zaxxon]

Sweet.

[stessier]

Just got the call to setup the appointment. Monday at 10am and they are giving me a loaner. Said the service should take about 6 hours, but mine is only the second one they'll have done, so it could be variable. No problem - I hope they take their time and get it right.

[Zaxxon]

At least it's not the first!

[stessier]

Dropped off the car today. Said the repair should take around 2 days. The loaner I got was a Nissan Kicks. Its driving performance makes me very sad.

[telcta]

I'm sure you can't wait to have your car back. I'm glad to hear you're getting a brand new battery. Is there any recalibration or configuration that needs to be done afterwards? I'm guessing the 2-days is for them to test the car as well?

I used to be pretty good knowing all the different car models and recognize them on the street. Now, I don't think I know half of what's out there. I never heard of a Nissan Kicks

[Hrothgar]

I never heard of a Nissan Kicks

Really? It's so famous the Cars had a song about it.

[stessier]

I'm sure you can't wait to have your car back. I'm glad to hear you're getting a brand new battery. Is there any recalibration or configuration that needs to be done afterwards? I'm guessing the 2-days is for them to test the car as well?

As far as I know (and from what I've read on the various forums), there's no recalibration or configuration required. It's pretty much a plug and play system. The battery I will be getting has 10% more capacity than my old one, but that just means the GOM will read higher. Also, the GOM is going to take time to reach equilibrium again with my driving style. None of the other car settings will be touched from what I've read. The actual repair is supposed to take 6 hours according to GM. This is only the second one my dealership has done, so I could see it taking longer as the tech takes his time working through it. They only have 1 guy fully trained on it and 2 others who are partially trained for electric cars. Also, once they are done, they are supposed to charge the battery. They only have a 25 kW charger onsite, so that will add some time as well (not sure what state of charge the batteries are shipped at though).

Another added bonus is that the first real service item is a coolant flush at 150k miles or 5 years. As part of the battery swap, they fully replace the coolant - so I get to reset that clock as well!

I am a little frustrated this morning, though, as the app is still reporting the battery status. When it gets detached, it should report an error. A bit bummed this suggests they haven't even started yet.

[Zaxxon]

They only have 1 guy fully trained on it and 2 others who are partially trained for electric cars.

..

They only have a 25 kW charger onsite

One way you'll be able to tell when the legacy OEMs are serious about the transition to EVs is when all their techs can handle their EVs, and when they can charge a fleet of them (or even one of them) quickly.

I am a little frustrated this morning, though, as the app is still reporting the battery status. When it gets detached, it should report an error. A bit bummed this suggests they haven't even started yet.

Welcome to the brave new world of Tesla service. Oh, I guess it's not just Tesla that sometimes fails at support/comms expectations.

It is awesome that you're getting a brand-new warranty, greater capacity, and a reset maintenance schedule, though. I'm rooting for GM to get past this current mess quickly and actually start expanding their EV offerings.

[stessier]

Just got a call from the Dealership. They said it is not done yet because they had to let it sit and let the charge run down to a certain level before they could begin work on it. They said it won't be done today and will give me a call tomorrow to update me.

Unfortunately, either they don't know what they are talking about, or they are lying. The service bulletin of how to do the repair is online. They are supposed to make sure the battery is below 90% and hasn't been charged within the last 24 hours. After that - good to go. I knew all this so dropped the car off at 42% and it hadn't been charged since last Thursday. Frustrating. If you're busy, just tell me. I can handle that much better than this.

The car is now reporting a 41% state...but that could just be weather related - it's cool this morning. Oh well - not really anything I can do about it.

[telcta]

I'm hoping you feel comfortable with their service and they'll take you in right away if anything crops up after you leave. Hopefully you won't have to visit them again for 5 years when you need the coolant changed.

[Zaxxon]

In positive news from the GM EV front (though very mildly positive): GM is looking to roll out 40,000 L2 plugs in its dealers' communities.

[stessier]

Got the call at 3:35pm yesterday and picked up the car at 5:30pm! It's so nice to have it back!

When they called to tell me it was ready, the dealer had wanted me to leave it overnight to charge as GM ships the battery as a very low state. I checked the app and it was at 25% - which is about 60 miles - and would be done charging the next morning at 9:30am! They had it plugged in and charging, so I thought it would be fine to at least get home (only 10 miles). I asked if they had it on a 25 KW charger and they said no, they don't know exactly what they have but it was much slower than that.

I got home and charged it and realized it took half the time the dealership would have. I'm at 32 amps, so they must have been at 16 amps...they only have a Level 1 charger! Insanity.

[Zaxxon]

Got the call at 3:35pm yesterday and picked up the car at 5:30pm! It's so nice to have it back!

Awesome! I also saw they're going to start manufacturing new Bolts again next week. Hopefully all is well going forward.

I asked if they had it on a 25 KW charger and they said no, they don't know exactly what they have but it was much slower than that.

I got home and charged it and realized it took half the time the dealership would have. I'm at 32 amps, so they must have been at 16 amps...they only have a Level 1 charger! Insanity.

Both of these are absurd. Again, a manufacturer is not serious about transitioning until all their dealerships do a lot better than this.

[LordMortis]

Both of these are absurd. Again, a manufacturer is not serious about transitioning until all their dealerships do a lot better than this.

We've had a 50 amp charging station in our garage for what seems like forever. (longer than a decade) You'd think a dealer that sells and or services such cars would have many of such things. Shows what I know.

... I wonder how long it will before some of our staff want to use the station for personal use, rather than business and the shit that will hit the fan when they do so without authorization... You know it's coming.

[telcta]

Got the call at 3:35pm yesterday and picked up the car at 5:30pm! It's so nice to have it back!

Excellent! I'm sure you were happy to return the Kicks. I hope everything goes well and you see an increase in range too.

[Zaxxon]

Shutdown extended through at least Feb.

[Zaxxon]

Shutdown extended through at least Feb.

Make that [the beginning of] April.

[Zaxxon]

Shutdown extended through at least Feb.

Make that [the beginning of] April.

And we're back! Final tally is 7+ months.

In related news, this may be the most cringe-worthy / marketingese quote I've seen in a long time:

“Our goal is to get back to and, quite frankly, exceed business metrics,” said Chevy’s VP of marketing Steve Majoros on a press call yesterday.

[stessier]

My car put up a "service car soon" hazard light today - which I would say was the "check engine light" but, you know. Never seen that before, so I grabbed the manual and the light indicates there is an issue with the ion battery pack and to service within 7 days. I then got a text and email from my car saying the same thing. That was fairly concerning, so I called and set up an appointment at the dealership for Monday (the earliest) and asked if it was okay to drive. The scheduler didn't know but transferred me to a service rep who said they had no way of knowing but that it would probably be fine.

Instilled with that confidence, I spent lunch Googling and visiting the usual message boards and came to the conclusion that the error codes generally have to do with things ancillary to the pack itself. There is one that says "service within 1 day" and usually has to do with the AC as if that goes out, there is no way to cool the battery. I was happy that wasn't my warning message! The other ones ran the gamut, so I drove home after eating to get my code reader and learned that it was the Hybrid Battery Contactor that was throwing the warning. More Goolging and Message Boarding told me that there is a sensor that tracks how long it takes the contactor to move and if it's off by some milliseconds, it sends up the warning. The fix, assuming the car will move (which it won't if it's really far gone), is to clear the code and see if it comes back on. No one who could move their car in the first place has had it come back on - several have gone more than 40k miles since the issue. So I'm feeling much better.

In the course of remembering how to use the OBDII reader, the light actually went off. It was then I learned that turning the car on and off 10x resets the lights. So right now the light is off and I have a screen shot of my code reader in case the codes get deleted. Everything seems to be handling well with no change in propulsion or any other system. I'm still going to keep my appointment and have them check the 12v battery and rotate my tires as both services were due soon anyway. Hopefully the light stays off and all is good.

[stessier]

The car went in for service on Monday and they confirmed it was a bad switch. They found a service bulletin that the fix was to replace it, so they did as a warranty repair. The switch was in the first battery module, so they had to drop the whole battery, drain the coolant, replace, then put it all back together.
The service rep says he went out to watch and it was pretty interesting.

Dropped the car off Monday and got it back on Wednesday. It was not fun to only have one car for 3 days, but we managed with my wife logging around 200 miles. It's great to have it back - way more fun to drive than a 2008 minivan!

[coopasonic]

Dropped the car off Monday and got it back on Wednesday. It was not fun to only have one car for 3 days, but we managed with my wife logging around 200 miles.

Three day service and no loaner? I guess they sold them all. Did they offer any options to help you out there?

[Unagi]

Three day service and no loaner? I guess they sold them all.

Non/semi related.
I had a car out for about a week (piston work).
My dealership said their 'loaner appointments" were booked out until like June or something (it was April).

I think you're basically right.