Octopus Overlords

Victoria Raverna wrote:So maybe it is better not trying to stop the outbreak. Let it spread to the whole world. Maybe by sacrificing 2% or less of world population to this virus, we'll avoid climate change.

If you subscribe to the thinking that the earth is a living entity then this can be construed as a immune response.

I don't but it makes a nice novel.

This seems... less than ideal.

https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/stat ... 7682979840

Dogstar wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:33 amThis seems... less than ideal.

This is where I ask someone like Smoove_B what this means. To me, the local and state responses which are good can't act because they have no visibility into the problem. Hopefully there is more that can be done but essentially this person is all on their own. Our government is failing her. Hopefully this gets the attention it deserves because this is heartbreaking *and* frustrating.

I don't think it takes a Smoove to see that completely unprepared and uneducated systems are assisting in the spread of the virus. We have an example of someone really trying to do the right thing and the system is just shrugging.

Couple that with the reminder that many many American workers can't afford to take time off, nor can they afford extensive healthcare. This pandemic is going to expose a really raw nerve in the US as it spreads.

I more meant what specifically local/state can do in the complete absence of Federal capability. As to the healthcare system, this exposes how frail it is. In my opinion it is a national security risk. This situation may more than prove that.

It also still mystifies me that the business community still clings to this broken employer-provided healthcare model considering how much they all hate dealing with it. It's expensive. It's inconsistent. Workers are constantly complaining about it.

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:00 am

Dogstar wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:33 amThis seems... less than ideal.

This is where I ask someone like Smoove_B what this means. To me, the local and state responses which are good can't act because they have no visibility into the problem. Hopefully there is more that can be done but essentially this person is all on their own. Our government is failing her. Hopefully this gets the attention it deserves because this is heartbreaking *and* frustrating.

Yeah, this is a mess and it's a perfect example of how our systems will get overwhelmed by the worried-well (in this case, the phone line). She's not a worried-well person, but she can't easiyl get the answers she needs.

The core issue is the test kits and the screening definitions. In order to get reimbursed by the feds, the only way the test kits can be used is to test people that meet very specific criteria. What they don't want is for states to just start testing anyone that shows up. I'm pretty sure we have the ability to offer more tests but I suspect months from now there will be follow up articles over how states are being denied reimbursement from the feds for testing and response related to this outbreak. Just call it a hunch. With that, we do need to have some parameters for testing, but I'm genuinely unclear as to why it's so restrictive in Washington state given what we now know (that it's likely been circulating).

What hit my circles yesterday (and I haven't seen it widely reported) is that the CDC site no longer lists the number of tests performed. Instead, they're only showing total cases now on the CDC site. I'm not sure this is a conspiracy yet (it could be related to data management and reporting lag), but it's a pretty big omission from what the weekend reporting looked like and should be clarified or commented in some way. Are they going to issue total testing updates on Wednesday? Fridays? Each Sunday? Having the CDC randomly cancel a meeting with the press yesterday was also not a good look.

I've said it before - everything is on the states and locals right now. The federal government is absolutely failing us, leadership in particular.

EDIT: Another excellent article and a perfect example of how China handled it vs how we're handling it:

Bruce Aylward - assistant director general and veteran epidemiologist at WHO

Right. [But many still think] it’s a runny nose and cold. Your population is your surveillance system. Everybody has got a smartphone, everybody can get a thermometer. That is your surveillance system. Don’t rely on this hitting your health system, because then it’s going to infect it. You’ve got this great surveillance system out there — make sure the surveillance system is primed. Make sure you’re ready to act on the signals that come in from that surveillance system. You’ve got to be set up to rapidly assess whether or not they really have those symptoms, test those people, and, if necessary, isolate and trace their contacts.

Here, again, is where I’ve seen things starting to break down. What I’ve been told is if you think you’ve been exposed and have a fever, call your [general practitioner]. We’ve got to be better than that. If we are going to use our GPs — do they have an emergency line where you can get through? Do they know what to do?

In China, they have set up a giant network of fever hospitals. In some areas, a team can go to you and swab you and have an answer for you in four to seven hours. But you’ve got to be set up — speed is everything.

So make sure your people know [about the virus]. Make sure you have mechanisms for working with them very quickly through your health system. Then enough public health infrastructure to investigate cases, identify the close contacts, and then make sure they remain under surveillance. That’s 90 percent of the Chinese response.

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/statu ... 2247682057

A student whose classmates met and shook hands with Vice President Mike Pence has reportedly been put under quarantine after his mom came into contact with a patient who tested positive for coronavirus

The Herald Tribune reported that the mother came in contact with an infected person through her “professional role” but neither of the two are exhibiting any symptoms of the coronavirus. On Friday, Sarasota cadets shook hands and posed for photos with Pence, who was in Sarasota for a fundraiser. The Pentagon is said to have been in touch with the school about the student.

A friend of mine in Seattle said that because there was a coronavirus patient in a signfiicant skyscraper, the entire skyscraper has been vacated and everyone's teleworking. My friend (who works nearby) expects to be full-time teleworking for the foreseeable future soon.

Just saw this from 2017 from the man in charge of Corona response and information release, the man in charge of the HIV outbreak in Indiana who only pivoted when the NCAA and GenCon were at the door of "Fuck this shit, I'm out."

https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pe ... ill-2017-1

He made that case in an op-ed article published in 2000 and has made no public effort to update his position since.

"Time for a quick reality check," Pence wrote. "Despite the hysteria from the political class and the media, smoking doesn't kill. In fact, 2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness and 9 out of ten smokers do not contract lung cancer."

I may have to breakdown and get a subscription to the NYT. There's no point in quoting the source because all it is, is report on a NYT report that claiming Mark Esper is telling commanders overseas not "surprise the white house" by making decisions that contradict PoTUS claims.

You know. Fake news. Under control. Safer than flu. Vaccine on its way in a couple of months. Made up by the Dems. Mike Pence is an expert and the only one qualified to talk about it. Not everyone will be able to afford treatment. It won't come to the states. It will be gone when it's warm. The US needs to compete by cutting rates and taxes while providing more easing. I'm sure I'm missing a whole lot. I don't have the constitution or desire to keep up. We've been trying to shield the US from this by limiting travel for months before it was announced in the news.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4856 ... e-house-on

That's cherry picking to get clicks. Let's go to the source:

To summarize, COVID-19 spreads less efficiently than flu, transmission does not appear to be driven by people who are not sick, it causes more severe illness than flu, there are not yet any vaccines or therapeutics, and it can be contained – which is why we must do everything we can to contain it. That’s why WHO recommends a comprehensive approach.

More importantly:

While many people globally have built up immunity to seasonal flu strains, COVID-19 is a new virus to which no one has immunity. That means more people are susceptible to infection, and some will suffer severe disease.

Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.

Bigger picture:

Some countries are looking for cases of COVID-19 using surveillance systems for influenza and other respiratory diseases.

Countries such as China, Ghana, Singapore and elsewhere have found very few cases of COVID-19 among such samples – or no cases at all.

The only way to be sure is by looking for COVID-19 antibodies in large numbers of people, and several countries are now doing those studies. This will give us further insight into the extent of infection in populations over time.

In closing:

Once again, this is a question of solidarity. This cannot be solved by WHO alone, or one industry alone. It requires all of us working together to ensure all countries can protect the people who protect the rest of us.

Well...we're boned.

While the Princess Cruise quarantine was a disaster, I think it also provides some relevant data.

1. Of ~3700 passengers, just 690 got sick - that tells me the infection rate is probably a little below 20%.
2. Of those 690, 7 have died. (a little over 1% - estimated rate is 2-3%)
3. Not much data, but what I have read is that one of the biggest issues is the hospitalization rates. Anyone have numbers on those?

The 2 cruise passengers from here that were moved to TX and supposed to be let out on the 2nd have been forced to stay against their will now. The Gov of TX wants retests as that same place let out someone without testing them and they turned out to be positive.

These guys are panicking. Fauci had to jump in and put the pin back in that grenade. This is surreal. It would only have been better if a reporter had yelled out 'can you back up this bullshit' claim'.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Acyn/status/ ... 3512242176

Alex Azar says that scientists have developed a potential vaccine after three days.

I want to remind everyone that Secretary Azar has degrees in government/economics and law. Medically speaking, I wouldn't trust him to apply a band-aid, much less describe what's involved in getting a vaccination to the public. I'm telling you as a public health professional, this is unprecedented, off the hook insanity.

A WH briefing with no video or audio. They know they are imploding. I thought it was funny that there was rampant speculation lately that Trump is going to pin this all on Pence and dump him for Haley...and now it feels like it might not be too far off the mark.

https://mobile.twitter.com/W7VOA/status ... 7097629697

We’re underway. No audio or video permitted but photos OK per @WhiteHouse.

https://mobile.twitter.com/waltshaub/st ... 8711255040

The administration that will be investigating the nursing home's compliance with regulations is the administration that is currently proposing to roll back nursing home regulations aimed at preventing infections from spreading in nursing homes.

Already hearing some contingency noise about what could be done if the University I work at had to shut down/run remotely - however, it was panicked noise that it could happen very soon. We have 30-35k students...

I work for a major consultant firm and we just got guidance that generally discourages all travel (even domestic). There are prohibitions against any work travel to certain countries. Any other international travel has to be approved. Wow.

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:17 pmWe’re underway. No audio or video permitted but photos OK per @WhiteHouse.

There isn't a WTF .gif that adequately captures my sentiment. I hope the press has special flop-sweat sensitive lenses on their cameras.

Fauci did not kill himself.

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:40 pm These guys are panicking. Fauci had to jump in and put the pin back in that grenade. This is surreal. It would only have been better if a reporter had yelled out 'can you back up this bullshit' claim'.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Acyn/status/ ... 3512242176

Alex Azar says that scientists have developed a potential vaccine after three days.

Trump looming behind his experts while they talk to the cameras tells you everything you need to know.

Fauci has been barred from appearing on talk shows. I'm sure that's because everything is fine.

I dont get why people in charge put up with the stupid orange moron.

Rushing a novel treatment to Phase I trials on a few dozen humans 3 days after discovery is criminally negligent.

Phase I studies of a new drug are usually the first that involve people. The main reason for doing phase I studies is to find the highest dose of the new treatment that can be given safely without serious side effects. Although the treatment has been tested in lab and animal studies, the side effects in people can’t always be predicted. These studies also help to decide on the best way to give the new treatment. American Cancer Society

Confirmation that a treatment works is Phase II, and comparison to a placebo isn't until Phase III. Notice how Trump is silently hiding behind his minions, who will inevitably be thrown under the bus when the sham is revealed. While Trump will claim he never lied, despite orchestrating the entire show for his personal political benefit.

Fauci had integrity in announcing that a vaccine will take over a year before Trump, and integrity is a threat to the Trump political engine.

Wish the bastards taxes would come out so he could be prisoned with the rest of the degenerates. I doubt it would take the courts long to get mi9ne if I had any.

Alefroth wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:09 pm Fauci did not kill himself.

I think Fauci knows he has some leverage. He knows if he is asked to resign or is replaced it will not look good for Trump. So he will tell the truth whenever he can.

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:54 pm I want to remind everyone that Secretary Azar has degrees in government/economics and law. Medically speaking, I wouldn't trust him to apply a band-aid,

I have degrees in political science and law, and the band aid I applied to my son's foot yesterday is still on there today, so screw you!

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:37 pm I work for a major consultant firm and we just got guidance that generally discourages all travel (even domestic). There are prohibitions against any work travel to certain countries. Any other international travel has to be approved. Wow.

I work for a major communications company some of you may have heard of, and we have similar restrictions.

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:46 am

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:37 pm I work for a major consultant firm and we just got guidance that generally discourages all travel (even domestic). There are prohibitions against any work travel to certain countries. Any other international travel has to be approved. Wow.

I work for a major communications company some of you may have heard of, and we have similar restrictions.

I'm at a fortune 500 and we have 4 countries completely banned, even for layovers. No comments on domestic travel yet, though.

I work in for a company of 300 people spread out across half the Metroplex. They haven't told us a thing.

stessier wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:54 am I'm at a fortune 500 and we have 4 countries completely banned, even for layovers. No comments on domestic travel yet, though.

I have been advised not to talk about my company that way on social media, but GM just publicly stated in the US

https://www.gm.com/coronavirus.html

If you have traveled to any of the following countries within the last 14 days, or had close contact with someone diagnosed with COVID-19, access will be denied. Watch this site for updates to the list of travel locations.
• China
• Italy
• Iran
• Japan
• South Korea

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:37 pm I work for a major consultant firm and we just got guidance that generally discourages all travel (even domestic). There are prohibitions against any work travel to certain countries. Any other international travel has to be approved. Wow.

I have two consultants currently working with a US federal agency in Pakistan. They are headed to Afghanistan on Saturday to work there for three weeks. The medical directors in both locations downplayed any concerns and there are no restrictions. They both sounded shocked when we expressed concerns about coming, which was surprising.

Interestingly, that same agency cancelled another program we were scheduled to deliver in Cairo next week. Only "mission critical" personnel are being allowed onsite right now. I have a huge project in Kenya next month...really hoping that one doesn't go sideways too.

My company is discouraging, but not actively limiting, domestic travel (I'm writing this from a DC hotel room ). Any international engagements are decided on a case-by-case basis.

I work alone at home, and have determined that emergency measures are unnecessary.

Kraken wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:20 pm I work alone at home, and have determined that emergency measures are unnecessary.

Me too!

Although, I might have to institute some sort of decontamination protocol for my wife...

The world according to coronavirus

Los Angeles coronavirus patient is a medical screener at LAX airport

From CNN's Cheri Mossburg

One of the newly announced coronavirus cases in Los Angeles county is a medical screener at Los Angeles International Airport, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

This contract worker had not been at work for more than a week before developing symptoms, DHS says. It is unclear whether the virus was contracted through their work with travelers or via community spread.

The patient is currently isolated at home with mild symptoms.

So this is someone who screens others for it. I assume then that that person got past this person and is now infecting others in LA.

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Well along with continuing to make us work on Christmas and Thanksgiving, the children's hospital I work for us continuing to make us take care of patients.

We did get some extra wipes to clean stuff though so that's...exciting?

I'll probably get this thing and it probably won't make me very sick. Probably.
What you gonna do?

well, every who has kids in school. start making plans now for what to do when the schools are closed. Because they are going to close, its just a matter of time. Prep your house for two weeks of not being able to buy groceries. its not doomsday, power and water won't fail, but you may need to self quarantine when you get sick.


Japan is NOT a third world country with poor hygiene, and they closed all schools nationwide this week

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/ ... mA4eahKhhE

As this continues to spread, everybody who can work from home, is going to have to work from home. Schools and offices will close, major events will close.