Octopus Overlords

If your conscience led you to vote third party in this election, then you don't have a conscience.

RunningMn9 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:29 pm If your conscience led you to vote third party in this election, then you don't have a conscience.

Or you're under 30 and think they're both pedos.

Kraken wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:31 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:29 pm If your conscience led you to vote third party in this election, then you don't have a conscience.

Or you're under 30 and think they're both pedos.

Same thing.

Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

Hey, I'm still on Team Warren. It would've been a glorious defeat.

Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:48 am Hey, I'm still on Team Warren. It would've been a glorious defeat.

I voted for Warren in the primary, I was still pissed at Bernie.

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

Seriously. I am certainly not the biggest Biden fan and live in a state where I reasonably could have thrown the vote away on some 3rd party and not made a EC difference. However, we needed to establish an overwhelming repudiation of Trumpism because it is all on the line now. That didn't happen and we're all going to have to deal with that. But other people are going to suffer that more acutely. That people still want to live in their fantasy worlds thinking it doesn't matter when the world is crashing down on actual people right now...RM9 got it right.

Also, there isn't a whole lot of Biden news right now unfortunately. Trump and COVID-19 have as usual stolen all the oxygen.

Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:48 am Hey, I'm still on Team Warren. It would've been a glorious defeat.

I never got the chance, but i would have Team Beto or Team Booker. We'll see what 2024 looks like but I imagine it will be nail biter for Harris and all of the Harris KAH-MAL-AH SOCIALISM (unspoken woman and not white) fearmongering against some faux-rational freedom screaming Trump surrogate.

Biden will reverse the damage done by DeVos:

With a likely Republican Senate and a narrow Democratic majority in the House, Mr. Biden will struggle to accomplish some of his loftiest policy goals. He has promised to bolster funding for special education, institute universal prekindergarten and triple funding for a federal program that helps schools serving high concentrations of students from low-income families, devoting some of that funding to teacher salaries. In higher education, he has promised free public college, expanding federal financial aid and canceling some student debt.

Stef Feldman, the Biden campaign’s policy director, told reporters last month that Mr. Biden would “be able to get some big, bold education legislation passed and certainly immediate relief for our schools and our educators, but that doesn’t mean that we’re not also going to take executive action within existing authority.”

Those actions could come quickly.

My cares are weed and net neutrality.

Daehawk wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:25 pm My cares are weed and net neutrality.

Biden on weed (errr....what he thinks):

Trump’s Democratic opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden, has a complicated history with cannabis, too. As a senator, he championed the 1994 crime bill that sent tens of thousands of minor drug offenders to prison. Yet while serving as Obama’s vice president, the administration issued the Cole memo, which cleared the way for state-legal marijuana businesses to operate largely without federal interference. Biden and running mate Senator Kamala Harris support adult-use marijuana decriminalization, moderate rescheduling, federal medicinal legalization, allowing states to set their own laws and expunging prior cannabis convictions — though not federal legalization.

Biden on net neutrality:

Biden hasn’t talked much about the FCC during the campaign, but his party’s platform is specific. It calls for restoring net neutrality rules put in place under then-President Barack Obama when Biden served as vice president and taking a harder line on telecommunications mergers.

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

And I couldn't care less what you want to read, or not read. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Go right on ahead and skip over my posts. Costs you nothing.

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

And I couldn't care less what you want to read, or not read. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Go right on ahead and skip over my posts. Costs you nothing.

This is possibly the first thing you've ever said in here that I agree with.

stessier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:48 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

And I couldn't care less what you want to read, or not read. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Go right on ahead and skip over my posts. Costs you nothing.

This is possibly the first thing you've ever said in here that I agree with.

Same here !!


Although I’ll correct one point. I never told you not to write.
And - It’s not that I don’t want to read -anything- you say, it’s that I personally don’t want to read how 1 week after the election you have (yet again) reflected on your vote and feel perhaps you should have voted for that Democrat who isn’t quite the bad guy you thought they were.

malchior wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:57 am

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

Seriously. I am certainly not the biggest Biden fan and live in a state where I reasonably could have thrown the vote away on some 3rd party and not made a EC difference. However, we needed to establish an overwhelming repudiation of Trumpism because it is all on the line now. That didn't happen and we're all going to have to deal with that. But other people are going to suffer that more acutely. That people still want to live in their fantasy worlds thinking it doesn't matter when the world is crashing down on actual people right now...RM9 got it right.

Also, there isn't a whole lot of Biden news right now unfortunately. Trump and COVID-19 have as usual stolen all the oxygen.

I hear that. I totally emphasize with that. Trumps actions likely cost my mother her life, not just crashing down, but ended. Here's where I stand. I've been alive, for 38 years. In that 38 years I've voted more then a few times. Just about ALL of those times, I've voted for the compromise candidates just about every single election cycle. I've voted for candidates who effectively offered me, and people who are traditionally marginalized absolutely NOTHING. Every election cycle, it's the democrats who make excuses or list reasons as to why they offer people who they are asking to overcome the various efforts of disenfranchisement and pull a lever for someone who offers them nothing... In the hopes that MAYBE, SOMEDAY in this bright new future they plan ushering in, give them some small kernel of what we NEED.

I've watched things get worse in America for as long as I've lived. Always worse, never better. Things never change. We as Americans, have two parties in this country. One party who will make things MUCH worse, and another party that actively REFUSES to fight them. This is because everything is run by people with money. I personally believe that the Dems lost the seats they lost in government due to this fact. The Dems spent an inordinate amount of time sucking up to people who were NEVER going to vote for them in the first place. The slim margins Biden got were BECAUSE people on the left FOUGHT and organized for them KNOWING that they would be given nothing, to protect a system that never gave two shits about them.

I think it's a trap. When this dumb fascist leaves office in a few months, we will be inaugurating a representative who will likely be unwilling or unable to do anything to help the vast majority of Americans. The situation will be the same in 4 years, only this time, it will likely be a SMART fascist. The Dems will have their hair on fire and pull the same routine. Vote for us or DOOOOOOOOOOOM! In four years the sane voters will be even more crushed and disenfranchised. It's just a big game. I personally cant see an option beyond voting my conscience, and sending a message that I do *NOT* support business as usual. Business as usual is *killing* us.

stessier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:48 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

And I couldn't care less what you want to read, or not read. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Go right on ahead and skip over my posts. Costs you nothing.

This is possibly the first thing you've ever said in here that I agree with.

And yeah. I encourage anyone who doesn't like what I have to say to do the same. I posted about Biden because I was pleasantly surprised at the initial moves Biden seems to be making. i posted the defense of myself, and my views on the system because I feel like I was being attacked. It's a pattern. I post something, I am attacked, thread gets off topic. I'm asking, pleading really. Lets keep this on topic.

Washington Post did an article about Biden considering backing lockdowns. I'd be interested in knowing whether you guys think he should spend political capital to do so.

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm Washington Post did an article about Biden considering backing lockdowns. I'd be interested in knowing whether you guys think he should spend political capital to do so.

Depends on the status of the pandemic and who controls the Senate. Expectations are that Covid will peak in mid-to-late January, a few weeks after xmas. If the medical system is on its knees then, a lockdown might be the only move we have left, and many states might have already done it. But of course the MAGAts would lose their little minds, and that's the exact opposite of the unity theme that Biden wants to go for. Besides which, that horse left the barn long ago; it's not clear that closing the door will help by then. It only really works if it's pretty close to universal.

So, if things get as grim as predicted, then a lockdown is the logical response; however, it's also politically untenable unless it comes with payments to individuals and businesses. Those won't be forthcoming if McConnell is calling the shots. If it will save lives and can be done without torpedoing the economy, then yes, he should do it.

Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:22 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm Washington Post did an article about Biden considering backing lockdowns. I'd be interested in knowing whether you guys think he should spend political capital to do so.

Depends on the status of the pandemic and who controls the Senate. Expectations are that Covid will peak in mid-to-late January, a few weeks after xmas. If the medical system is on its knees then, a lockdown might be the only move we have left, and many states might have already done it. But of course the MAGAts would lose their little minds, and that's the exact opposite of the unity theme that Biden wants to go for. Besides which, that horse left the barn long ago; it's not clear that closing the door will help by then. It only really works if it's pretty close to universal.

So, if things get as grim as predicted, then a lockdown is the logical response; however, it's also politically untenable unless it comes with payments to individuals and businesses. Those won't be forthcoming if McConnell is calling the shots. If it will save lives and can be done without torpedoing the economy, then yes, he should do it.

I am wondering if somehow some way Biden can get ALL the states to lockdown, without being seen as doing it at a federal level. Oooof.

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:47 pm

Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:22 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm Washington Post did an article about Biden considering backing lockdowns. I'd be interested in knowing whether you guys think he should spend political capital to do so.

Depends on the status of the pandemic and who controls the Senate. Expectations are that Covid will peak in mid-to-late January, a few weeks after xmas. If the medical system is on its knees then, a lockdown might be the only move we have left, and many states might have already done it. But of course the MAGAts would lose their little minds, and that's the exact opposite of the unity theme that Biden wants to go for. Besides which, that horse left the barn long ago; it's not clear that closing the door will help by then. It only really works if it's pretty close to universal.

So, if things get as grim as predicted, then a lockdown is the logical response; however, it's also politically untenable unless it comes with payments to individuals and businesses. Those won't be forthcoming if McConnell is calling the shots. If it will save lives and can be done without torpedoing the economy, then yes, he should do it.

I am wondering if somehow some way Biden can get ALL the states to lockdown, without being seen as doing it at a federal level. Oooof.

Money. "$X federal emergency aid will be provided so long as your state does XYZ."

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm

stessier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:48 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

And I couldn't care less what you want to read, or not read. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Go right on ahead and skip over my posts. Costs you nothing.

This is possibly the first thing you've ever said in here that I agree with.

And yeah. I encourage anyone who doesn't like what I have to say to do the same. I posted about Biden because I was pleasantly surprised at the initial moves Biden seems to be making. i posted the defense of myself, and my views on the system because I feel like I was being attacked. It's a pattern. I post something, I am attacked, thread gets off topic. I'm asking, pleading really. Lets keep this on topic.

Washington Post did an article about Biden considering backing lockdowns. I'd be interested in knowing whether you guys think he should spend political capital to do so.

Let me turn that question around on you. If Biden spends political capital and it turns out the red states don't listen to him anyway and it backfires are you going to blame it on the Dems offering you nothing?

I ask this because, at least in the Obama years, a lot of what you call "Dems offering you nothing" was due to the Republicans not cooperating. It's real easy to say the Dems were rolling over and getting their asses kicked but when the Republicans have Senate majority WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO? Mitch McConnell was not acting in good faith as a legislator, he was fucking it up for everyone who was! Did you expect the Dems to go in with AK-47s or something? Is that what you wanted?

wonderpug wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:56 pmMoney. "$X federal emergency aid will be provided so long as your state does XYZ."

I'm pretty confident this will be the plan or close to it. Do nothing and get [$X] for aid. Do [a whole bunch of stuff and stick to national recommended plan] and you'll get [$X+something bigger]. This will likely be part of immediate direct aid and future reimbursement for medical / testing / response services.

raydude wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:50 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm

stessier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:48 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

And I couldn't care less what you want to read, or not read. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Go right on ahead and skip over my posts. Costs you nothing.

This is possibly the first thing you've ever said in here that I agree with.

And yeah. I encourage anyone who doesn't like what I have to say to do the same. I posted about Biden because I was pleasantly surprised at the initial moves Biden seems to be making. i posted the defense of myself, and my views on the system because I feel like I was being attacked. It's a pattern. I post something, I am attacked, thread gets off topic. I'm asking, pleading really. Lets keep this on topic.

Washington Post did an article about Biden considering backing lockdowns. I'd be interested in knowing whether you guys think he should spend political capital to do so.

Let me turn that question around on you. If Biden spends political capital and it turns out the red states don't listen to him anyway and it backfires are you going to blame it on the Dems offering you nothing?

I ask this because, at least in the Obama years, a lot of what you call "Dems offering you nothing" was due to the Republicans not cooperating. It's real easy to say the Dems were rolling over and getting their asses kicked but when the Republicans have Senate majority WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO? Mitch McConnell was not acting in good faith as a legislator, he was fucking it up for everyone who was! Did you expect the Dems to go in with AK-47s or something? Is that what you wanted?

Fight? Be seen to stand up and say "No, this is wrong, and here's why" Use the pulpit of the office to castigate the opposition. Paint them into a corner where they show their true motives? Organize at the grassroots level to endanger the offices of those who refuse to play ball?

I could produce like a million instances where Democrats could have fought the awful things the Repubs did but instead offered token/no resistance. Democrats triangulate, appease and generally throw up their hands and do nothing because in the end fighting for what is right is RISKY.

Even if at the end of everything Dems lose, the fact that they fight for what they believe in can lead to organizing and voter turnout later. Biden BARELY won (and damn near lost the house) because the voters see republican, and republican lite and in most voters minds, that little bit if difference isn't enough to make them vote.

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:57 pm

wonderpug wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:56 pmMoney. "$X federal emergency aid will be provided so long as your state does XYZ."

I'm pretty confident this will be the plan or close to it. Do nothing and get [$X] for aid. Do [a whole bunch of stuff and stick to national recommended plan] and you'll get [$X+something bigger]. This will likely be part of immediate direct aid and future reimbursement for medical / testing / response services.

Cue the Trumptards screaming "Federal meddling and overreach!" But ya. Good plan. Minor wrinkle tho: What will lockdown states do when their red neighbors opt out? Post border guards? Quarantine every traveler for two weeks? Ban interstate travel?

The effectiveness of this plan depends on an all in strategy.

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:18 pm Minor wrinkle tho: What will lockdown states do when their red neighbors opt out? Post border guards? Quarantine every traveler for two weeks? Ban interstate travel?

Short answer: FAFO

Longer answer: I honestly don't know. I've personally seen plans that do involve setting up border blockades (not for this, but for other events) but I'm not quite sure of what the legal status is at this point. They're already back to stops in NYC for out of state plates coming through the tunnels and crossing the bridges. Back in the earliest days of COVID when people here were commenting on going on vacation or traveling out of state, I advised that travel back home might not be possible.

At this point (quite honestly) the actual issue is enforcement. States (towns, cities, etc...) could impose mandatory stay at home orders but I'm not sure they're equipped to enforce them. Even in NY where the governor has called for a prohibition on gatherings larger than 10 in private homes, unless you have neighbors calling the police or the police randomly visiting homes with lots of cars parked in front, I don't know how you enforce it (or if you should). I truly want people to just start doing the right goddamn thing for once, but it's abundantly clear America is incapable. I'm not sure that there's a carrot or stick large enough that any government official could offer now after 8+ months of total nonsense and encouraged self-centered behavior.

NY/PA/CT/NJ governors are allegedly having a remote meeting this weekend to discuss what they're going to do next in recognition that we're all on the same page (collectively) and in close proximity. That's what I'd watch for to get a hint of what Biden might be planning.

raydude wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:50 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm

stessier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:48 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:21 am

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 am

Ænima wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 am Also, Bernie endorsed Biden so he didn’t want anyone’s vote. People who voted for him weren’t voting their consciences, they were just being contrarian assholes.

Note: I voted for Bernie in the primary, which was the appropriate time for such statements.

I retyped this response over and over again, before I realized it was totally futile, so. Whaever.

I guess I'm just a remorseless conscienceless asshole. *shrug*

Now can we go back to discussing Biden? Please?

You can do what you want, but I personally have no interest in hearing You talk about Biden.
I certainly don’t need to hear how -you- have suddenly realized he may actually be a good president, etc.

And I couldn't care less what you want to read, or not read. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Go right on ahead and skip over my posts. Costs you nothing.

This is possibly the first thing you've ever said in here that I agree with.

And yeah. I encourage anyone who doesn't like what I have to say to do the same. I posted about Biden because I was pleasantly surprised at the initial moves Biden seems to be making. i posted the defense of myself, and my views on the system because I feel like I was being attacked. It's a pattern. I post something, I am attacked, thread gets off topic. I'm asking, pleading really. Lets keep this on topic.

Washington Post did an article about Biden considering backing lockdowns. I'd be interested in knowing whether you guys think he should spend political capital to do so.

Did you expect the Dems to go in with AK-47s or something? Is that what you wanted?

It might mean the Dem's do better with the gun rights crowd, maybe even peel off a few of the Trumperloos.

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:14 pm Even if at the end of everything Dems lose, the fact that they fight for what they believe in can lead to organizing and voter turnout later. Biden BARELY won (and damn near lost the house) because the voters see republican, and republican lite and in most voters minds, that little bit if difference isn't enough to make them vote.

Drazzil, have you ever lifted a finger to make any change happen? What did you do to forward the message or help voter turnout?

I know people who've put in literally 15-20 hours a week on GOTV and talking to neighbors and strangers about the 2020 election for the past *twelve months*. I myself have done a little, and I'm proud of that, but I can't compare to folks who made beating Trump and pushing policy and communicating its importance their literal second job while the rest of us were watching TV and playing games.

These people I know literally did measurable, meaningful things to win Pennsylvania and the election. They didn't sit around waiting for Nancy Pelosi or the media or some third-party candidate to do it for them. They did it themselves, and they defeated Donald Trump.

Put up or shut up. Volunteer. Learn things and then get off your damn couch, or else quit complaining.

Holman wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:17 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:14 pm Even if at the end of everything Dems lose, the fact that they fight for what they believe in can lead to organizing and voter turnout later. Biden BARELY won (and damn near lost the house) because the voters see republican, and republican lite and in most voters minds, that little bit if difference isn't enough to make them vote.

Drazzil, have you ever lifted a finger to make any change happen? What did you do to forward the message or help voter turnout?

I know people who've put in literally 15-20 hours a week on GOTV and talking to neighbors and strangers about the 2020 election for the past *twelve months*. I myself have done a little, and I'm proud of that, but I can't compare to folks who made beating Trump and pushing policy and communicating its importance their literal second job while the rest of us were watching TV and playing games.

These people I know literally did measurable, meaningful things to win Pennsylvania and the election. They didn't sit around waiting for Nancy Pelosi or the media or some third-party candidate to do it for them. They did it themselves, and they defeated Donald Trump.

Put up or shut up. Volunteer. Learn things and then get off your damn couch, or else quit complaining.

I campaigned for Obama. Got him elected, got burned. I made more then a few calls for Bernie. Stuck to the script. Got burned a different way. Now? I've pretty much given up on the political process. May the universe bless those people who campaigned that much for the last year. I cannot imagine doing something like that. That's a hell of a lot of fortitude. I get dejected too easily. I'm considering getting involved in the DSA, but if we're being completely honest, that organization has severe structural problems. That said, you've given me something serious to think about. I'm not just saying this. I never considered it from that angle before.

First, thank you for getting Obama elected, second, how did you get burned?

RunningMn9 wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:01 am First, thank you for getting Obama elected, second, how did you get burned?

Ermm. Obama ran from the left, then after getting elected tacked so hard to the right it gave me whiplash. Obama had a mandate after 2008. A literal SUPERMAJORITY. Instead of leading, he fell victim to asking for permission from the right and played nine dimensional chess and pretty much played a Chamberlinesque figure throughout his entire presidency. Its why he and the Dems got their ass kicked in 10 and 12 (If Im not mistaken). The American people gave him a literal mandate to lead, and it led to the Dem's blowing it. Big time. That's ALSO why the nation went so hard for the right in 16.

When people are desperate they tend to try populist figures first on one side, then on another. Think Trump was extreme? Wait for 16. President Elect Biden sure has his work cut out for him if he wishes to avoid this.

People are tired and desperate, both sides are. Biden is LITERALLY America's last chance before the curtain call, if its not too late already. I don't believe he, or we are up to the challenge. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Stop buying the bullshit propaganda that Democrats can't do anything.

Obama fought like hell to get health care, which took his entire SUPERMAJORITY. He led, then the Dems got their ass kicked because of Republican fearmongering. They took chances to get done something that other politicians failed at over DECADES. When Obama tried to get something done with McConnell by finding areas where Republicans should have agreed (DACA, economy, etc.), Mitch McConnell abused the system by causing gridlock. That's not blowing it, that's being undermined by a villain.

Trump did better than expected as a protest vote by those who didn't want Biden to shut down the country because of COVID -- for believing Trump about the disease, for feeling safe in rural communities, for selfish desires to socialize, for financial reasons to make money, for propaganda, and some for their view of liberty.

It's not just Biden's fight. But it's not. Giving up and saying it's now Biden's problem isn't the solution. That's the easy way, the Trump way. You don't win by rolling over, you prove you're up to the challenge by fighting. Not giving into despair.

Not to mention that when Obama started out he was a little preoccupied with with saving the universe from the financial crisis he inherited on day 1 of his presidency. So yeah, he saved the economy and got you an inkling of what real universal health care might be like all while the Republicans fought absolutely everything he did tooth and nail. That's a betrayal if I ever saw one.

Democrats got their asses kicked in '10 and '14 (not '12), and they did so because Republicans managed to overwhelmingly tarnish Obamacare in many voters minds while Democrats forgot to vote during the midterms, as they usually do.

Anyway, even if you're convinced of the falsehood that Obama didn't accomplish anything, and that he was hard right, and even if you're under the illusion that Biden would be no different than Trump on the issues, and ignored all the many ways the Trump and Obama administrations were dramatically different, and ignored the racism, corruption, gas lighting, etc.

What I don't get is how you can look at the flaming dumpster fire of an administration, which has to be the least competent administration in our lifetimes, during one of the biggest disasters this country has ever faced and want more of that, instead of voting for the only viable competent alternative.

Im going to step back and think about how to answer these pressing questions in an intelligent manner. I might not reply for a day or so. Feel free to talk about Biden (You know, the OTHER subject of this thread )

We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It's a trap Americans fall into time and time again with almost every issue. Gun control, health care, climate change, etc. If we can't easily solve the entire issue with little cost or sacrifice, then we throw up our hands and say it can't be done.

I will say, however, that there is only one party that is actively trying to solve these problems, imperfect though their solutions may be. The Republican healthcare plan is to keep things as they are - fundamentally broken. The Republican gun control plan is to not have any. The Republican climate change plan is to ignore it. On almost every issue the Republican plan is to do nothing. The only thing they truly care about is the economy, and even then the only part of the economy they truly care about is the stock market. Everything and everyone else can go to hell.

Drazzil wrote:Ermm. Obama ran from the left, then after getting elected tacked so hard to the right it gave me whiplash.

So you think you got burned by Obama because you believe he ran from the left, but then somehow governed as a far-right politician. Is that a fair characterization?

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1328434277051211787

Biden says in a meeting today with business and union leaders, "they all agreed" a national strategy for COVID-19 is essential to getting the economy back on track: "Things are going to get much tougher before they get easier...It's going to be difficult, but it can be done"

No Tim Apple.

Was Elon there?

RunningMn9 wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:32 am

Drazzil wrote:Ermm. Obama ran from the left, then after getting elected tacked so hard to the right it gave me whiplash.

So you think you got burned by Obama because you believe he ran from the left, but then somehow governed as a far-right politician. Is that a fair characterization?

And then he goes on to say that Biden seem like a good guy, because he promised to be a president for everyone, not just the people who voted for him. I'm not sure if Drazzil realizes he isn't really saying that to the 'write-in Bernie' voters... but to the Trump voters.