Octopus Overlords

Some stats now that the trip is over:

• Time spent driving: 42.6 hours
• Time spent charging: 11.6 hours
• Drive/charge ratio: 79% (eg about 1 hour of charging for every 4 hours driving)
• 21 Supercharging stops, averaging 33 minutes. We used these breaks to have meals, grab snacks, use the restrooms, etc. As such, our total time spent sitting around waiting for charging to complete was about 30 minutes for the entire trip. Supercharging is a crazy-efficient use of time. We included no Destination charging hotels on this trip, so this should be an accurate representation of how easy it is to road trip in a Tesla when relying entirely on the Supercharger network for energy.
• 2,749 miles driven, 3,428 rated miles used, for about an 80% efficiency rating. 299 Wh/mi per the car's trip computer. Overall trip average temp was 51 degrees, and ranged from about 25F to 75F.
• 822 kWh consumed, which is the energy equivalent to 24.4 gallons of gasoline, or ~112.7 MPGe.
• Those efficiency stats seem pretty good to me, as this was a P3D (18" Aeros with covers on for the trip) on Interstate highways that have long stretches of 80 MPH limits with 85 MPH+ prevailing speeds. Probably 90%+ of the miles we traveled were on roads with 70 MPH or higher speed limits. The trip also included tens of thousands of feet of elevation gain and loss as we passed over the continental divide in both directions, plus the mountains of Utah and California. Plus whiteout blizzard conditions coming home over Vail Pass, which was... nerve-wracking.

Random mostly-reiteration of the horse I keep beating:

• On long trips, especially condensed into a short period like this one was, Autopilot is worth its weight in gold. For all the complaints people (including myself) have raised about the system, it's virtually flawless on long interstate drives, and takes the vast majority of the stress out of the drive. Auto-lane change is a great addition to Autosteer, and largely did a good job on our trip.
• The Supercharger network remains a vastly under-appreciated competitive advantage for Tesla. As I mentioned above, we spent about 30 minutes (thirty minutes!) in total waiting for charging. Across a 4+ day, 2,749-mile trip. I've had good luck not waiting in the past, but generally travel with my kids and wasn't sure whether I was being too generous to the Supercharger system's effectiveness due to the slowness of my kiddos when we make a stop. But this trip was just two adult dudes, and we did not dawdle. We ate meals at a quick pace, made speedy restroom stops, and grabbed snacks for the road on some stops. Even given this, the car was ready to continue before we were on the large majority of our 21 stops. Could we have #JeffVed pushed ourselves to the point where we were waiting for charging more often? Sure. But it would not have been as enjoyable of a trip.
• Following on the prior point--no other manufacturer's EV could have made this trip in a reasonable time. None, and it's not even close. This is why I believe the Supercharger network is such an advantage. It's literally the only way to take this sort of trip in any EV, and that's not going to change anytime soon. Even if/when competition has sufficient network locations to complete the trip, it will be a long time additional to that before it's as convenient and fun as Tesla's. Being able to just have the nav calculate everything, pull up to a stall, plug in and walk away (without hassling with charge network payment/membership cards), then have the phone app ping us when we have enough charge for our specific trip's next leg is a level of integration that I don't expect from anyone else anytime in the near-to-medium term.

Having Saturn flashbacks.

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:12 pm Some stats now that the trip is over:

• Time spent driving: 42.6 hours
• Time spent charging: 11.6 hours
• Drive/charge ratio: 79% (eg about 1 hour of charging for every 4 hours driving)
• 21 Supercharging stops, averaging 33 minutes. We used these breaks to have meals, grab snacks, use the restrooms, etc. As such, our total time spent sitting around waiting for charging to complete was about 30 minutes for the entire trip. Supercharging is a crazy-efficient use of time. We included no Destination charging hotels on this trip, so this should be an accurate representation of how easy it is to road trip in a Tesla when relying entirely on the Supercharger network for energy.
• 2,749 miles driven, 3,428 rated miles used, for about an 80% efficiency rating. 299 Wh/mi per the car's trip computer. Overall trip average temp was 51 degrees, and ranged from about 25F to 75F.
• 822 kWh consumed, which is the energy equivalent to 24.4 gallons of gasoline, or ~112.7 MPGe.
• Those efficiency stats seem pretty good to me, as this was a P3D (18" Aeros with covers on for the trip) on Interstate highways that have long stretches of 80 MPH limits with 85 MPH+ prevailing speeds. Probably 90%+ of the miles we traveled were on roads with 70 MPH or higher speed limits. The trip also included tens of thousands of feet of elevation gain and loss as we passed over the continental divide in both directions, plus the mountains of Utah and California. Plus whiteout blizzard conditions coming home over Vail Pass, which was... nerve-wracking.

Random mostly-reiteration of the horse I keep beating:

• On long trips, especially condensed into a short period like this one was, Autopilot is worth its weight in gold. For all the complaints people (including myself) have raised about the system, it's virtually flawless on long interstate drives, and takes the vast majority of the stress out of the drive. Auto-lane change is a great addition to Autosteer, and largely did a good job on our trip.
• The Supercharger network remains a vastly under-appreciated competitive advantage for Tesla. As I mentioned above, we spent about 30 minutes (thirty minutes!) in total waiting for charging. Across a 4+ day, 2,749-mile trip. I've had good luck not waiting in the past, but generally travel with my kids and wasn't sure whether I was being too generous to the Supercharger system's effectiveness due to the slowness of my kiddos when we make a stop. But this trip was just two adult dudes, and we did not dawdle. We ate meals at a quick pace, made speedy restroom stops, and grabbed snacks for the road on some stops. Even given this, the car was ready to continue before we were on the large majority of our 21 stops. Could we have #JeffVed pushed ourselves to the point where we were waiting for charging more often? Sure. But it would not have been as enjoyable of a trip.
• Following on the prior point--no other manufacturer's EV could have made this trip in a reasonable time. None, and it's not even close. This is why I believe the Supercharger network is such an advantage. It's literally the only way to take this sort of trip in any EV, and that's not going to change anytime soon. Even if/when competition has sufficient network locations to complete the trip, it will be a long time additional to that before it's as convenient and fun as Tesla's. Being able to just have the nav calculate everything, pull up to a stall, plug in and walk away (without hassling with charge network payment/membership cards), then have the phone app ping us when we have enough charge for our specific trip's next leg is a level of integration that I don't expect from anyone else anytime in the near-to-medium term.

How hard is it to chart a route with supercharger stops along the way at reasonable intervals? Does the app / in car app handle that? Like can I say "I want to drive from Boston to Cleveland" and have it chart a route that will tell me to stop at the following supercharger stations at these points? And did you ever have to go out of your way to get to a supercharger station?

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:23 pm Having Saturn flashbacks.

Ha.

El Guapo wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:23 pm How hard is it to chart a route with supercharger stops along the way at reasonable intervals? Does the app / in car app handle that? Like can I say "I want to drive from Boston to Cleveland" and have it chart a route that will tell me to stop at the following supercharger stations at these points? And did you ever have to go out of your way to get to a supercharger station?

Last question first--I did not have to go out of my way. There are some places where that could be necessary still, but for the most part the interstate system is pretty well covered at this point.

1st question--the nav handles it. You type in or say where you want to go, and the car handles the rest. It plots the route, selects appropriate Superchargers, and estimates how long you'll need to stop at each. This web app gives an approximation of what the system looks like. This one goes into way more detail for more off-the-beaten-path trips and/or if you want to get a lot more detailed.

Follow up if I may. Battery life. Does anyone have enough mileage that the battery is starting to degrade to the point where you would think of replacing it? Let's take a model 3, how much is a battery replacement? Can't seem to find the info.

How fast is it degrading?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Warranty

The Battery and Drive Unit in your car are covered for a period of:

• Model S and Model X – 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first).
• Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
• Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Extended warranties

The Extended Service Agreement covers the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of most parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla during the coverage period, excluding the car’s lithium-ion battery and drive unit, which have their own separate warranty. Coverage is based upon the purchased agreement option and takes effect on the date that your original New Vehicle Limited Warranty expires.

2-Year Extended Service Agreement
2 years or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first.

4-Year Extended Service Agreement
4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Isg posted the warranty. Here's some info on what folks tend to see.

Here's some data for the S/X. I haven't seen anything as comprehensive yet for the 3, but the theory is they should degrade similarly or less so (it's an updated chemistry compared to the S/X). My own car has shown very little degradation in 16k miles and nearly a year, and my friend's used for the trip is still at 310 miles (full rated) after 9k miles.

Generally, the batteries will degrade up to a few percent the first year, and then plateau after that and lose very little each successive year if well-taken care of (which mostly just means not leaving it at 100% or 0%--the car will let you choose the top charge level, which Tesla generally recommends you leave at 90% unless you're on a trip where you need more). There are edge cases where I've seen Tesla replace batteries, but it seems to be pretty rare these days. Here's a report from Tesloop, a Tesla-only taxi company with a ton of miles on their cars, with their thoughts on one of their high-mileage X vehicles.

thank you both

Just curious, has anyone tried out any of the new features in the latest update, I think it's 2019.8.3? I just got it late last night.

I'm most interested in how the so-called Sentry Mode function, i.e. whether it's worth using all the time, some of the time, or whatever. I read someone broke a window and the alarm still didn't sound, but they did get good pictures. I guess I need to get the USB stick installed before I bother trying it.

Also interesting is the claim there's a 5% increase in "peak performance" - I'm not sure how I would ever figure that out, but I'm certainly not complaining if they tweaked something lol.

I got 2019.8.3 this am. It feels slightly peppier if I floor it, but 5% isn't a big 0-60 boost (takes a big peak increase to make a substantial difference when the time is already good).

I have had the dash cam working for months and like it. Sentry mode had some issues with the initial release but they seem to have been ironed out at this point.

I went out to the garage and dicked around for a bit, but no update kicked in. Is it for everyone?

Jaymann wrote:I went out to the garage and dicked around for a bit, but no update kicked in. Is it for everyone?

Seems to be rolling out for all, but will take a day or two to get there. If your car is not on wifi, the best thing you can do to get to the head of the line is put it on wifi.

Thanks! I figure it gets here when it gets here.

(click through for the thread)

Again, not trying to dump on the Bolt as it is perfectly functional for certain (most) use cases. But other manufacturers really need to start following Tesla in spirit, not just do the minimum required to acquire sufficient GHG/ZEV credits. The contrast gets more and more stark by the week.

This week, my car received a 5% power boost and red light detection/warning when on autopilot. Earlier this month, Sentry Mode, Dog Mode, and improved dash cam (3 cameras vs 1). In another month or so it'll add autopilot handling of stop signs and stop lights. Not only is the car superior, but now it's in the same pricing ballpark, and the pace of innovation is on a whole other level.

I'm hoping that this next GM EV for which they just announced a $300M investment will be a little more boundary-pushing and a little less follow-the-leader.

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:36 am

(click through for the thread)

Again, not trying to dump on the Bolt as it is perfectly functional for certain (most) use cases. But other manufacturers really need to start following Tesla in spirit, not just do the minimum required to acquire sufficient GHG/ZEV credits. The contrast gets more and more stark by the week.

This week, my car received a 5% power boost and red light detection/warning when on autopilot. Earlier this month, Sentry Mode, Dog Mode, and improved dash cam (3 cameras vs 1). In another month or so it'll add autopilot handling of stop signs and stop lights. Not only is the car superior, but now it's in the same pricing ballpark, and the pace of innovation is on a whole other level.

I'm hoping that this next GM EV for which they just announced a $300M investment will be a little more boundary-pushing and a little less follow-the-leader.

GM did $2.5B in profit last quarter. Tesla did $131M last quarter, the first time it had consecutive quarters in the black. The big manufacturers will innovate when it suits to bottom line, not to save the planet.

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:36 am not just do the minimum required to acquire sufficient GHG/ZEV credits. The contrast gets more and more stark by the week.

...

will be a little more boundary-pushing and a little less follow-the-leader.

We'll see how Ford plays out. CMax made zero splash and I can't see how it would have but Ford has at least made a commitment in manpower and space when they purchased Detroit's old train station for the development of EV and self driving design.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... ectric-suv

IMO, any competition to Tesla will come down to cost commitment, continued support, and as your link show, the ability to... you know... travel.

They've marked themselves on the clock for 2021 with 2022 being their full swing. We'll see... I'll be impressed if they can build a network of charging stations or make arrangements in 600 days and make that widely visible, so people have faith in their ability to travel. If they can, I think they'll be tracking correctly, if they can't, that's 11 Billion and potentially their market share tanking. That said I like their commitment to an SUV/CUV EV. It's a good nut to crack if you have the tools.

https://www.autonews.com/article/201807 ... g-networks


Edit found this bit of 100 years in Ford not mass producing an EV.

https://insideevs.com/ford-ev-history-future/

The Wall Street Journal reported in October 1966 that Ford Motor Co. made a “major breakthrough in battery research.” The company claimed that its new batteries – using sodium-sulfur chemistry instead of lead acid – could store 15 times more energy than before. In a presentation on Oct. 3, Ford officials said the new battery technology would address the problem of limited range while offering better acceleration than gas cars.

My old man did work related to Ford's Sodium powered vehicles and thought that tech was still coming in the 70s.

It's sad to see a history of was expected.. was expected... was expected... placed next to "is expected". It's good not be afraid to fail when you have the capital. It's bad to have essentially been in perpetual failure for the 15 years following their 2004 Hybrid Escape (which I consider a success for the time)

One (bottom line) will very soon require the other (electric drivetrain).

A few things:

The sales numbers - as of December, Chevy had sold every Bolt they made. They just don't make a lot. Most of the 3rd quarter volume was shipped to Korea. It is unclear if the market doesn't like it or the market doesn't know it exists. There has been zero advertising put behind the car. (Tesla being Tesla gets all the free advertising it needs.)

The fast charge network map is just flat out misleading. Those are Electrify America sites only. Go to plugshare and filter on CCS only - people should be able to get from Boston to Atlanta without any issue.

The "limited" part of the compliance car is probably person specific. On the East Coast where there is a pretty decent network of chargers, life is fine. Additionally, I haven't taken a personal car trip of more than 100 miles in over 2 years - so it doesn't matter what the larger charging network is, the car is perfectly capable. (As noted by just about every article about electric cars - most people won't need/use fast charging for more than 90% of the time they own it.)

The cars are in the same price ballpark only if you exclude the majority of the stuff you see as being an advantage. To get the premium interior Model 3 in Blue with the default wheels, it's $39,000. You can get the Premium Bolt in Blue for right around that ($38-39k depending). Both have a 240 mile range. The Model 3 will be a bit faster. The Bolt is said to have more storage. Seems like it comes down to one's feelings about the style and current charging needs.

stessier wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:29 pmThey just don't make a lot.

There is a reason for this. But to get to the deeper point, there is currently a) no way GM could produce enough Bolts to sell at the level Tesla's at, b) no way GM would do so if they could, and c) no way enough buyers would surface to purchase them all.

The fast charge network map is just flat out misleading.

The specific graphic they used, I agree. The overall situation, absolutely not. Nothing competes with the Superchargers. Just isn't a thing anywhere yet.

Additionally, I haven't taken a personal car trip of more than 100 miles in over 2 years

Likely a reason why you view the networks as possibly interchangeable in certain locations. That's... naive.

- so it doesn't matter what the larger charging network is, the car is perfectly capable. (As noted by just about every article about electric cars - most people won't need/use fast charging for more than 90% of the time they own it.)

True that most people don't need it, but an inordinately large percentage of people make buying decisions not based on what they need, but on what they think they need. The point of the Tweety thread was that what needs to happen is millions of EVs sold/year, right quick-like. The Bolt, and GM's strategy of compliance car development with LG taking the lead on the core, ain't gonna get us there in time. My point is that the 'in time' matters, and the Bolt has been a large disappointment in that it has shown that GM isn't as itching to get the BEV train rolling as they had proclaimed to be when the Bolt was in development. The volume they're selling, two years after release, is rather a joke for GM's scale. Additionally, the rapid expansion to other models they originally claimed has not come to pass. When is the next GM BEV slated for mass production?

The cars are in the same price ballpark only if you exclude the majority of the stuff you see as being an advantage. To get the premium interior Model 3 in Blue with the default wheels, it's $39,000. You can get the Premium Bolt in Blue for right around that ($38-39k depending). Both have a 240 mile range. The Model 3 will be a bit faster. The Bolt is said to have more storage. Seems like it comes down to one's feelings about the style and current charging needs.

What majority of stuff I see as being an advantage does that exclude? Autopilot isn't required. You get the Supercharging, the quickness, the speed, the sporty handling, and the OTA updates. The SR+ 3 is just far better than the Bolt Premium unless you specifically need a hatchback. The Bolt still has the full tax credit vs Tesla's half, but that will even out soon since GM hit the cap last quarter. (They'll be even on 4/1, then on 7/1 GM has an advantage, then on 1/1 even again.)

Again, I hear you on the space advantage of the Bolt, and on the fact that despite their thought process, most folks don't *need* the long-distance travel capability. But they buy based on it. And the real point I'm trying to make is that the pace of innovation required to keep from falling further behind Tesla, much less catch up, just is not there for anyone else. Nor is the volume sales. 2022-2025 doesn't cut it. I like the Bolt, but its sales window was the time before the Model 3 was widely available. GM needs to either drop the price or up the competitiveness, along with greatly boosting the volume. I'm afraid that the first piece will preclude the second, and with that we all lose.

Tesla can't make the volumes required, and no one else is stepping up soon enough. The press releases keep telling us that next year is the year it all changes, but this has been the case for several years running. I'm hopeful (but not confident) that this changes soon.

There's some competition coming to market this year
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids ... oming-soon

I've had my car for 7.5 months. I just learned how to put it in neutral. It's almost time to get it washed. I'm supposed to be meeting up with a friend that just got her X wrapped in a matte blue and I can't show up with my car looking like I took it mudding. Or, maybe I can. I'm pretty lazy.

Take it mudding. Problem solved.

Where is neutral?

Jaymann wrote:Where is neutral?

Hold the shift lever up or down for 1 second.

Jaymann wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:02 am Where is neutral?

It's more a state of being than a location.

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:04 am

Jaymann wrote:Where is neutral?

Hold the shift lever up or down for 1 second.

Can't believe I never did that accidentally.

stessier wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:05 am

Jaymann wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:02 am Where is neutral?

It's more a state of being than a location.

Switzerland I believe.

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:04 am

Jaymann wrote:Where is neutral?

Hold the shift lever up or down for 1 second.

I checked it out and there is an "N" right there on the display, but unless you know the secret you can never go there.

It's a little ironic one of the main reasons I was enthralled with the Teslas was the idea of the Autopilot/steer functions, but after driving mine for 8-9 months I've still been too chicken to use any of it. For any of you that use it, can you tell me a bit about the experience? Does it work well even under heavy traffic? Do you have issues trusting the braking, etc? Also as a side note, if I were to fall asleep with the autopilot engaged, what exactly is supposed to happen?

rittchard wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:37 pm It's a little ironic one of the main reasons I was enthralled with the Teslas was the idea of the Autopilot/steer functions, but after driving mine for 8-9 months I've still been too chicken to use any of it. For any of you that use it, can you tell me a bit about the experience? Does it work well even under heavy traffic? Do you have issues trusting the braking, etc? Also as a side note, if I were to fall asleep with the autopilot engaged, what exactly is supposed to happen?

It works well where it's supposed to--highways, stop-and-go traffic. Just don't expect it to handle stop lights/signs yet. It also can have trouble when lanes expand/contract (will sometimes try to center itself into what's becoming two lanes, for example, and then quickly pick one of the new lanes to move into). So long as you're actually paying attention and have hands on the wheel, it's not disconcerting and you'll quickly gain a handle as to where it's flawless and where you need to be more alert.

I've had no issues trusting the braking--it's very good at that aspect, and in fact is more cautious than most humans.

As for your question about what happens if you stop behaving, it's a tiered process, the basics of which are:
-Within a few seconds (depends on the driving situation--longer in stop-and-go traffic, more quickly at high speeds) the car will put up a message asking you to apply light torque force to the steering wheel to confirm that you're still paying attention.
-If you fail to do so, it'll start flashing blue on the screen to be more visible.
-If you still fail to confirm your attentiveness, the car will beep at you and ask one last time.
-If you fail this time, the hazard lights go on and the car slowly comes to a stop.

I would recommend getting used to Autopilot on a highway, as that's where it performs the best. It's also great in stop-and-go traffic, especially on highways, as it removes the need for the constant manual micro-adjustments (minor steering, a little go pedal, then stop, then go, then stop, etc) that normally come with traffic jams. The confirmations are also few and far between in this scenario.

It's my opinion that autonomous vehicles will result in a few more bad drivers living, and a few more good drivers dying than currently occurs. Essentially Darwin reversed.

More drunk drivers, fewer DUIs if what I've seen is any indication.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:01 pm More drunk drivers, fewer DUIs if what I've seen is any indication.

Dammit, maybe I need to take up drinking again just so I can get the most out of my car!

Autopilot is fine, but pay attention so you don't die. Is that helpful?

coopasonic wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:03 pm Autopilot is fine, but pay attention so you don't die. Is that helpful?

Man, you said that in way fewer words than I did. Kudos.

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:04 pm

coopasonic wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:03 pm Autopilot is fine, but pay attention so you don't die. Is that helpful?

Man, you said that in way fewer words than I did. Kudos.

You have far more experience with it than I do so I defer to your wisdom here. I have basically only ever used it for my commute which is a dozen miles of stop and go on a three lane highway. Not much excitement to be had. I wish automatic lane changes were faster, so I generally turn it off when I want to change lanes. It also leaves too much space in stop and go and is a little slow to start when the car in front starts, but I let it be. One day I will find an excuse for a longer drive. I just passed 4k miles after 7 months.

I do like that it lets me use cruise control at slower speeds (school zones). My old car wouldn't engage cruise at 20mph.

I swear this popped up on my news feed as soon as I left the thread.





I will say this. I just had some routine maintenance done on my car (not a Tesla). They borked something with the electrical system and the radio wouldn't turn off. Thankfully I could still control the volume but I couldn't change inputs or stations via the screen nor the paddles nor the console buttons. Got me thinking about what would happen if the electronic ebrake wouldn't disengage or the pushbutton gearshift stopped working. I'm glad at least that my doors are still analog. And I do have a glass breaker of sorts.

coopasonic wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:09 pmI wish automatic lane changes were faster

Ditto. Although it does seem like it's gotten a bit faster in the more recent releases. Definitely not fast enough for lane changes in tight traffic, though.

It also leaves too much space in stop and go and is a little slow to start when the car in front starts, but I let it be.

FWIW, you can manually use the accelerator to get it going more quickly in stop-and-go. That won't disengage Autopilot.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:12 pm I swear this popped up on my news feed as soon as I left the thread.

The Twitter replies are great:

"All she wants to do... is have it run..."
"Every day is a winding road... or not."
"I got a feelin' she's not the only one."
"Is Tesla your favorite mistake?"

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:12 pm They borked something with the electrical system and the radio wouldn't turn off. Thankfully I could still control the volume but I couldn't change inputs or stations via the screen nor the paddles nor the console buttons.

So...you're driving Christine these days?