Abortion news and discussion

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Punisher
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

GreenGoo wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:40 am
Punisher wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:40 pm I stand corrected. Guess i list more medical knowledge than i thoyght. That makes me sad.
Makes me sad too. I'm sorry Punisher. Still, you seem to be doing well!
Yeah. I know it can be worse especially since i experienced worse when it all started and was able to get beyter for some things.
I do partially wish that i didn't remember that i was smarter in the before times because i do think it would be a lot easier to deal with.
I AM slowly rebuilding trust with myself. I 2nd guess a LOT of things nowadays but have been slowly pushing myself physically and mentally. Started with little tjings like relearning how to use the computer a bit, relearning how to use my 3d printers, and a few weeks ago doung some electrical work by changing 2light fixtures. Had some isdues and made some mistakes but didn't explide the house so i count ir as a win.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Kraken »

Punisher wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:58 pm I do partially wish that i didn't remember that i was smarter in the before times because i do think it would be a lot easier to deal with.
I sort of understand this. I used to be smarter, but my decline has been graceful. I lost the ability to read books a long time ago, but I can still follow movies. Well, most movies. As long as they aren't too clever.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by GreenGoo »

Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:09 am I sort of understand this. I used to be smarter, but my decline has been graceful.
Same. But Punisher's situation is different. I had a co-worker who was hit by a bus and sustained a head injury and his personality actually changed significantly.

My wife works on a hospital neuro ward so I have some 3rd hand knowledge of what can happen as well. Anyway, I can imagine it's very challenging for Punisher but as I said, he seems to be coping. :wub:
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Kraken »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:01 am
Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:09 am I sort of understand this. I used to be smarter, but my decline has been graceful.
Same. But Punisher's situation is different. I had a co-worker who was hit by a bus and sustained a head injury and his personality actually changed significantly.

My wife works on a hospital neuro ward so I have some 3rd hand knowledge of what can happen as well. Anyway, I can imagine it's very challenging for Punisher but as I said, he seems to be coping. :wub:
I didn't mean to compare myself to him. I'm just slowly slipping with age, as happens to so many of us.
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Punisher
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:29 am
GreenGoo wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:01 am
Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:09 am I sort of understand this. I used to be smarter, but my decline has been graceful.
Same. But Punisher's situation is different. I had a co-worker who was hit by a bus and sustained a head injury and his personality actually changed significantly.

My wife works on a hospital neuro ward so I have some 3rd hand knowledge of what can happen as well. Anyway, I can imagine it's very challenging for Punisher but as I said, he seems to be coping. :wub:
I didn't mean to compare myself to him. I'm just slowly slipping with age, as happens to so many of us.
Hey! This isn't a contest...but if it was..id win..😃
But yeah I'm coping as best as i can. Dont really have a choice other then wallowing in misery. I tried that when i was in the hospital. It wasn't fun so i flipped it.
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LordMortis
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by LordMortis »

Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:29 am
GreenGoo wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:01 am
Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:09 am I sort of understand this. I used to be smarter, but my decline has been graceful.
Same. But Punisher's situation is different. I had a co-worker who was hit by a bus and sustained a head injury and his personality actually changed significantly.

My wife works on a hospital neuro ward so I have some 3rd hand knowledge of what can happen as well. Anyway, I can imagine it's very challenging for Punisher but as I said, he seems to be coping. :wub:
I didn't mean to compare myself to him. I'm just slowly slipping with age, as happens to so many of us.
I play games (I try to do new to me games on BGA regularly) and now I'm doing exercise, such as I can, in an effort to fight my my premature decline, and declining prematurely I am.
Punisher wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:28 pm Hey! This isn't a contest...but if it was..id win..😃
But yeah I'm coping as best as i can. Dont really have a choice other then wallowing in misery. I tried that when i was in the hospital. It wasn't fun so i flipped it.
I truly feel for you and hope something comes about to reverse your progression to date, if nothing else for selfish reasons. :oops: My anxiety, if I were in your shoes would be intolerable.
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Punisher
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:06 am
Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:29 am
GreenGoo wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:01 am
Kraken wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:09 am I sort of understand this. I used to be smarter, but my decline has been graceful.
Same. But Punisher's situation is different. I had a co-worker who was hit by a bus and sustained a head injury and his personality actually changed significantly.

My wife works on a hospital neuro ward so I have some 3rd hand knowledge of what can happen as well. Anyway, I can imagine it's very challenging for Punisher but as I said, he seems to be coping. :wub:
I didn't mean to compare myself to him. I'm just slowly slipping with age, as happens to so many of us.
I play games (I try to do new to me games on BGA regularly) and now I'm doing exercise, such as I can, in an effort to fight my my premature decline, and declining prematurely I am.
Punisher wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:28 pm Hey! This isn't a contest...but if it was..id win..😃
But yeah I'm coping as best as i can. Dont really have a choice other then wallowing in misery. I tried that when i was in the hospital. It wasn't fun so i flipped it.
I truly feel for you and hope something comes about to reverse your progression to date, if nothing else for selfish reasons. :oops: My anxiety, if I were in your shoes would be intolerable.
I'm not sure I'd say i get anxious bit i do get frustrated... a lot. However im slowly getting used to it. Docs really don't know if ill ever get better, even a little bit I've come to accept that.
The discouraging thing is my dreams. IRL I also have physical limitations including walking and syanding issues. Iny dreams I do dream about being in a chair and rhen walking or even start with walking. But in every dream I've remembered I always have speech/brain issues. Stuttering and not being able to speak clearly for example. Even typing this took a while but at least i dont have someone standing here waiting on me.
However, that being said, I would be happy to get better and let you have the title thoygh.
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Zarathud
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Zarathud »

Glad you’re still kicking, Punisher. Life isn’t easy, but I’m sure you better appreciate the things you can do.
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Punisher
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

Zarathud wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:32 pm Glad you’re still kicking, Punisher. Life isn’t easy, but I’m sure you better appreciate the things you can do.
I mean, it IS possible i died but just dont remember. Sort of like the coyote who hovers until he looks down.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Zarathud »

All the more reason not to look down, but ahead. :)
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Isgrimnur »

Arizona Supreme Court rules a near-total abortion ban from 1864 is enforceable
The ruling is on hold for 14 days, and voters will likely have a chance to weigh in on an ballot measure to enshrine abortion rights in the state's constitution this fall.
...
The decision — which could shutter abortion clinics in the state — effectively undoes a lower court’s ruling that stated that a more recent 15-week ban from March 2022 superseded the 1864 law.

The Arizona Supreme Court said it would put its decision on hold for 14 days, writing that it would send the case back to a lower court so that court could consider “additional constitutional challenges” that haven’t yet been cleared up.

Attorney General Kris Mayes, a Democrat, said moments after the ruling that she would not enforce the law.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Unagi »

I guess some dogs, when they catch a car, just buckle down and try to disembowel it?

Good luck with that Arizona.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by El Guapo »

At least these decisions are coming down in an election year in swing states. The policy is horrendous, but the politics is helpful.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:47 am the politics is helpful.
That's what keeps being uttered, but I'm not convinced yet that it will be as motivating as claimed. Maybe I'm just too far down into the cynical pit of despair, but it just feels like there are still so many people shrugging all this off.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by hepcat »

I remember a time, a more innocent and naive time, when I thought Americans couldn't be dumb or just plain evil enough to do many of the things they've done since 2016.

I miss those days. :(
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:55 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:47 am the politics is helpful.
That's what keeps being uttered, but I'm not convinced yet that it will be as motivating as claimed. Maybe I'm just too far down into the cynical pit of despair, but it just feels like there are still so many people shrugging all this off.
While memories are short, until now they've been very helpful here. But short memories are scary, like OK, we voted down voter suppression, then we voted down abortion bans and the crazy trying to put them through and against the Supreme Court who started the ball rolling. Now we're done and can go back to not voting.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by YellowKing »

I think there can be the illusion that people just don't care when there's not an election going on. I think most Americans make their voice heard at the ballot box, not in the streets. Clearly elections/referendums held since Roe was overturned have shown that people *do* care. What remains to be seen is whether they care enough to hand Biden a win. It may play out that Roe has a larger impact at the state level, while Trump still squeaks by nationally due the delusion that somehow he is good with money.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Alefroth »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:55 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:47 am the politics is helpful.
That's what keeps being uttered, but I'm not convinced yet that it will be as motivating as claimed. Maybe I'm just too far down into the cynical pit of despair, but it just feels like there are still so many people shrugging all this off.
I think anywhere abortion has been on the ballot, abortion rights have won, even in Kansas and Ohio.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by gbasden »

hepcat wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:21 pm I remember a time, a more innocent and naive time, when I thought Americans couldn't be dumb or just plain evil enough to do many of the things they've done since 2016.

I miss those days. :(
Amen. I had such an overly optimistic view of my countrymen.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Isgrimnur »

I wonder what else was legal in 1864…
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:58 pm I wonder what else was legal in 1864…
If you follow HCR, her 4/10 post covers that. For those who don't:
The Arizona law that will begin to be enforced in 14 days was written by a single man in 1864.
In 1864, Arizona was not a state, women and minorities could not vote, and doctors were still sewing up wounds with horsehair and storing their unwashed medical instruments in velvet-lined cases.

And, of course, the United States was in the midst of the Civil War.

In fact, the 1864 law soon to be in force again in Arizona to control women’s reproductive rights in the twenty-first century does not appear particularly concerned with women handling their own reproductive care in the nineteenth—it actually seems to ignore that practice entirely. The laws for Arizona Territory, chaotic and still at war in 1864, appear to reflect the need to rein in a lawless population of men.

The 1864 Arizona criminal code talks about “miscarriage” in the context of other male misbehavior. It focuses at great length on dueling, for example—making illegal not only the act of dueling (punishable by three years in jail) but also having anything to do with a duel. And then, in the section that became the law now resurrected in Arizona, the law takes on the issue of poisoning.

In that context, the context of punishing those who secretly administer poison to kill someone, it says that anyone who uses poison or instruments “with the intention to procure the miscarriage of any woman then being with child” would face two to five years in jail, “Provided, that no physician shall be affected by the last clause of this section, who in the discharge of his professional duties deems it necessary to produce the miscarriage of any woman in order to save her life.”
The next section warns against cutting out tongues or eyes, slitting noses or lips, or “rendering…useless” someone’s arm or leg.

The law that Arizona will use to outlaw abortion care seemed designed to keep men in the chaos of the Civil War from inflicting damage on others—including pregnant women—rather than to police women’s reproductive care, which women largely handled on their own or through the help of doctors who used drugs and instruments to remove what they called dangerous blockages of women’s natural cycles in the four to five months before fetal movement became obvious.
Written to police the behavior of men, the code tells a larger story about power and control.

The Arizona Territorial Legislature in 1864 had 18 men in the lower House of Representatives and 9 men in the upper house, the Council, for a total of 27 men. They met on September 26, 1864, in Prescott. The session ended about six weeks later, on November 10.

The very first thing the legislators did was to authorize the governor to appoint a commissioner to prepare a code of laws for the territory. But William T. Howell, a judge who had arrived in the territory the previous December, had already written one, which the legislature promptly accepted as a blueprint.
Although they did discuss his laws, the members later thanked Judge Howell for “preparing his excellent and able Code of Laws” and, as a mark of their appreciation, provided that the laws would officially be called “The Howell Code.” (They also paid him a handsome $2,500, which was equivalent to at least three years’ salary for a workingman in that era.) Judge Howell wrote the territory’s criminal code essentially single-handedly.

The second thing the legislature did was to give a member of the House of Representatives a divorce from his wife.

Then they established a county road near Prescott.

Then they gave a local army surgeon a divorce from his wife.

In a total of 40 laws, the legislature incorporated a number of road companies, railway companies, ferry companies, and mining companies. They appropriated money for schools and incorporated the Arizona Historical Society.

These 27 men constructed a body of laws to bring order to the territory and to jump-start development. But their vision for the territory was a very particular one.

The legislature provided that “[n]o black or mulatto, or Indian, Mongolian, or Asiatic, shall be permitted to [testify in court] against any white person,” thus making it impossible for them to protect their property, their families, or themselves from their white neighbors. It declared that “all marriages between a white person and a [Black person], shall…be absolutely void.”

And it defined the age of consent for sexual intercourse to be just ten years old (even if a younger child had “consented”).

So, in 1864, a legislature of 27 white men created a body of laws that discriminated against Black people and people of color and considered girls as young as ten able to consent to sex, and they adopted a body of criminal laws written by one single man.

And in 2024, one of those laws is back in force in Arizona.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

JFC this is grim:
One woman miscarried in the lobby restroom of a Texas emergency room as front desk staff refused to admit her. Another woman learned that her fetus had no heartbeat at a Florida hospital, the day after a security guard turned her away from the facility. And in North Carolina, a woman gave birth in a car after an emergency room couldn’t offer an ultrasound. The baby later died.

...

Federal law requires emergency rooms to treat or stabilize patients who are in active labor and provide a medical transfer to another hospital if they don’t have the staff or resources to treat them. Medical facilities must comply with the law if they accept Medicare funding.

The Supreme Court will hear arguments Wednesday that could weaken those protections. The Biden administration has sued Idaho over its abortion ban, even in medical emergencies, arguing it conflicts with the federal law.

“No woman should be denied the care she needs,” Jennifer Klein, director of the White House Gender Policy Council, said in a statement. “All patients, including women who are experiencing pregnancy-related emergencies, should have access to emergency medical care required under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act.”
Note:
EMTALA was initially introduced decades ago because private hospitals would dump patients on county or state hospitals, often because they didn’t have insurance, said Alexa Kolbi-Molinas of the American Civil Liberties Union.

Some hospitals also refused to see pregnant women when they did not have an established relationship with physicians on staff. If the court nullifies or weakens those protections, it could result in more hospitals turning away patients without fear of penalty from the federal government, she said.

“The government knows there’s a problem and is investigating and is doing something about that,” Kolbi-Molinas said. “Without EMTALA, they wouldn’t be able to do that.”
Why am I posting this here?
Even as states have enacted strict abortion laws, the White House has argued that if hospitals receive Medicare funds they must provide stabilizing care, including abortions.

In a statement to THE AP, Becerra called it the “nation’s bedrock law protecting Americans’ right to life- and health-saving emergency medical care.”

“And doctors, not politicians, should determine what constitutes emergency care,” he added.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

I feel like things are continuing to get worse:
Months after the Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos had the same legal status as children, the nation’s largest Protestant denomination is set to vote on whether to take a stand against in vitro fertilization.

Alabama Chief Justice Tom Parker cited verses from the Bible and Christian theologians in his Feb. 16 concurring opinion that sparked national debate and left lawmakers scrambling to keep the state’s in vitro fertilization clinics running.

Parker argued that the court was merely enforcing a principle that has “deep roots that reach back to the creation of man ‘in the image of God,’” Parker said, quoting the Book of Genesis. He also quoted a Bible verse in which God told the prophet Jeremiah, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.”

When the Southern Baptist Convention meets in Indianapolis June 9-12, members are expected to vote on several resolutions, including one that would condemn IVF because it creates more embryos that can be implanted. The resolution states embryos would be left frozen and “unquestionably destined for eventual destruction.”

“In Vitro Fertilization most often engages in the destruction of embryonic human life and increasingly engages in dehumanizing methods for determining suitability for life and genetic sorting, based on notions of genetic fitness and parental preferences,” the resolution reads.

“We call on Southern Baptists to love all of their neighbors in accordance with their God-given dignity as image bearers and to advocate for the government to restrain actions inconsistent with the dignity and value of every human being, which necessarily includes frozen embryonic human beings,” the resolution continues.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by TheMix »

Thank goodness for separation of church and state... </s>

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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

Once again demonstrating it can always get worse:
A pair of Texas professors figured out that their female students have sex and, boy, they do not like it. So now the philosophy professor and finance professor are suing for the right to punish their students who, outside of class, have abortions.

"Pregnancy is not a disease, and elective abortions are not 'health care,'" University of Texas at Austin professor Daniel Bonevac sneers in a federal court filing with professor John Hatfield. Instead, Bonevac writes, because pregnancy is the result of "voluntary and consensual sexual intercourse," students should not be allowed time off to get abortions. If the students disobey and miss class for abortion care, the filing continues, the professors should be allowed to flunk students. Additionally, Bonevac asserts that he has a right to refuse to employ a teaching assistant who has had an abortion, calling such women "criminals."
Also:
Even though the plaintiffs suing for the right to flunk female students for abortion include boilerplate arguments in which they feign concern that abortion is "killing," the legal filing makes it clear that what really outrages Bonevac and Hatfield is that Title IX prevents them from controlling the private lives of students. Along with their anger about abortion, they grouse about not being allowed to punish students "for being homosexual or transgender." They also argue they should be able to penalize teaching assistants for "cross-dressing," by which they appear to mean allowing trans women to wear skirts.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by GreenGoo »

Too funny. Are they sure they wouldn't be more comfortable teaching in Iran?
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

This might be a good argument to allow succession
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Isgrimnur »

Punisher wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:54 pm This might be a good argument to allow succession
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

You know, a psrt of me thought that was spelt wrong but brain don't work right so I put whatever.
Someone correct the spelling and forgive poor drain bamaged me.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Isgrimnur »

Enlarge Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Punisher
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

Ok. At least I was close. 😉
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Alefroth »

Maybe Succession wouldn't be so bad either. Hostile takeover anyone?
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Blackhawk »

Punisher wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:54 pm This might be a good argument to allow encourage succession
It needed a minor tweak.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Isgrimnur »

Southern Baptist Church opposes IVF in vote
The Southern Baptist Convention has approved a resolution opposing in vitro fertilisation (IVF) at its annual convention.

The resolution urged its congregants to only support reproductive technologies that affirm the "unconditional value and right to life of every human being, including those in an embryonic stage", and criticized IVF.

A separate proposed measure to only allow men to be pastors narrowly failed in a vote on Wednesday.
...
The resolution, which is nonbinding, described IVF as "dehumanising" and asked the government "to restrain" the practice.
...
Earlier on Wednesday, the SBC also voted 61.4% to 38.4% in favour of a ban on women pastors, but a two-thirds majority was required to amend the church's constitution.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by gilraen »

I'm all in favor of their congregants not reproducing.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Unagi »

The SBC wins the years Darwin Award.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by waitingtoconnect »

Punisher wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:01 pm You know, a psrt of me thought that was spelt wrong but brain don't work right so I put whatever.
Someone correct the spelling and forgive poor drain bamaged me.
Never!!

Any failure in cognition or spelling rules you ineligible to be president… :tjg:
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Punisher
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Punisher »

waitingtoconnect wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 10:29 pm
Punisher wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:01 pm You know, a psrt of me thought that was spelt wrong but brain don't work right so I put whatever.
Someone correct the spelling and forgive poor drain bamaged me.
Never!!

Any failure in cognition or spelling rules you ineligible to be president… :tjg:
How about if I run for Supreme High MucketyMuck?
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Pyperkub »

Kudos to the Interviewer!
“If abortion was the best choice for your girlfriend, why try to deny that choice to other women?” anchor Kyle Clark asked.

The Republican candidate deflected, asking Clark if he had listened to the remarks he had made in January initially describing the situation. Clark countered that Holtorf’s logic in the speech was “scattered” and repeated his question....

...“I dont [seek to deny that right],” Holtorf claimed.

Clark shot back: “You have voted to restrict abortion access with legislation.”

“I have,” Holtorf responded. He added he believes women should choose life at every opportunity, but that there should be “exceptions” to restrictions on the practice.

“Is one of the exceptions when Richard Holtorf is the father?” asked Clark.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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gilraen
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Location: Broomfield, CO

Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by gilraen »

Kyle Clark is a treasure. He got a shout-out from Jimmy Kimmel for his handling of CD04 Republican primary debate in Colorado.
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