Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:45 pm**

Holman wrote: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:29 pm
It's never an issue unless a church forces it by actually running political ads or something.

I was a churchgoer in the South until 1990 or so, and there was never an election when the preacher didn't straight-up tell us from the pulpit where our votes should go.

Yeah, as El Guapo said, this is not new, although I'm not sure any president before this has been stupid enough to directly address religious leadership in this fashion. But if they had, I wouldn't be surprised to find that out.

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:09 am**

And now it has come out that Drumpf told the religious leaders that he abolished the law forbidding religious organizations from endorsing political candidates.

Surprise! He didn't, although he did try and failed last year.

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:18 am**

GreenGoo wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:09 am And now it has come out that Drumpf told the religious leaders that he abolished the law forbidding religious organizations from endorsing political candidates.

Surprise! He didn't, although he did try and failed last year.

Not his fault. With all the winning, it's hard to keep track of the losses.

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:44 pm**

Remember that pay raise for federal employees that was supposed to go into effect in January? Gosh, after giving away everything to the .01% in tax cuts, there's just no way we can afford that!

President Donald Trump told lawmakers on Thursday he was scrapping a planned pay raise for civilian federal workers, saying the nation's budget couldn't support it.

In a letter to House and Senate leaders, Trump described the pay increase as "inappropriate."
"We must maintain efforts to put our Nation on a fiscally sustainable course, and Federal agency budgets cannot sustain such increases," the President wrote.
An across-the-board 2.1% pay increase for federal workers was slated to take effect in January. In addition, a yearly adjustment of paychecks based on the region of the country where a worker is posted -- the "locality pay increase" -- was due to take effect.

Trump said both increases would no longer happen.

Yet getting $25B for that stupid fucking wall is still absolutely critical.

The negative effects of Trump's vilification of public servants will be felt for decades.

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:08 pm**

See, it's VITAL that our brave soldiers get pay raises. That's not negotiable, and if you dare to question it, you're an unAmerican commie.

But Federal employees? Well, those are just lazy freeloaders who we can't fire no matter how badly they screw up. Those people don't deserve the money they get now, let alone a freaking pay RAISE. They don't provide any value to society that the private sector couldn't do way better and for way less.

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:18 pm**

I have a couple of Trump voting friends who are civilian federal workers. "Talk about your all-time backfires." - Happy Gilmore

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:24 pm**

YellowKing wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:18 pm I have a couple of Trump voting friends who are civilian federal workers. "Talk about your all-time backfires." - Happy Gilmore

I’m sure they’ll find a way to blame it on Obama.

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:38 pm**

YellowKing wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:18 pm I have a couple of Trump voting friends who are civilian federal workers. "Talk about your all-time backfires." - Happy Gilmore

Even if they are friends, I'd be taunting the living shit out of them, because...take your medicine.

Posted: **Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:21 pm**

GreenGoo wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:38 pm Even if they are friends, I'd be taunting the living shit out of them, because...take your medicine.

No, when a dog shits on the carpet, you rub their nose in it.

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:12 am**

I work with a metric shit ton of DoD civilians and Trump isn’t the first President to jam them out of a raise. But he is the first person to do it just after passing a trillion dollar tax cut and while simultaneously talking about how strong the economy is.

Obama and GWB both froze the federal pay scale more than once, but at least had the decency to do it while dealing with an economic crisis.

Most of my co-workers agree that Trump is a piece of shit, but there’s a few that support this dumpster fire. I hope this decision somehow brings financial ruin upon them. I wouldn’t say that all of the Trump supporters I know at work are lazy pieces of shit at their jobs, but I will say that all of the lazy piece of shit federal employees I know at work are vocal Trump supporters.

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:22 am**

Jeff V wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:21 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:38 pm Even if they are friends, I'd be taunting the living shit out of them, because...take your medicine.
No, when a dog shits on the carpet, you rub their nose in it.

Right about now, though, Trump should be getting this to help his supporters...

RunningMn9 wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:12 amI work with a metric shit ton of DoD civilians and Trump isn’t the first President to jam them out of a raise. But he is the first person to do it just after passing a trillion dollar tax cut and while simultaneously talking about how strong the economy is.

Reminds me of the worst boss I had - who once told everyone the business was struggling and there was no money for raises that year - and then showed up two weeks later in a new $70,000 sports car.

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:08 am**

Donald Trump Is Setting Up A Lame-Duck Crisis.

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:20 pm**

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 2064402434

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:42 pm**

Didn't see place to put this so onto the pile it goes.

Drumpf's pulling funding from UN's Palestinian refugee fund.

Whether you agree or disagree with this action, you can at least rest assured that top men seriously deliberated over the ramifications of such a move, and this was the best course of action they could come up with.

American leadership. Not as random and hate filled as it appears.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:55 pm**

And now a special Labor Day message for Americans, courtesy of our President, Donald Trump:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8640058368

Richard Trumka, the head of the AFL-CIO, represented his union poorly on television this weekend. Some of the things he said were so against the working men and women of our country, and the success of the U.S. itself, that it is easy to see why unions are doing so poorly. A Dem!

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:36 pm**

Oh it gets better. Maybe you'd like to hear him complaining that his own AG didn't cover up investigations into Republicans to help them in elections?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8573130752

Spoiler:

Or maybe just doing some good, old-fashioned supervillain style bloviating:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8749227008

Spoiler:

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:42 pm**

Ok, I'm through pretending to pretend.

I hope he dies.

Why won't he just die?

I have never felt this way about another human being before, let alone a politician or US prez.

Ok, I'd settle for someone punching him in the mouth every time he tweets.

I take it back, I don't need him to die. I need him to be assaulted in the mouth as many times as he opens his twitter account to write something hateful, spiteful, inane, monstrous.

I'll settle for him going back to being a nobody shitgoblin that doesn't matter. There are million of them, they don't matter either. Somehow this shitgoblin is the President of the US. A victory for shitgoblins everywhere, amirite Em2?

None of it has to do with which side of the aisle he's on.

He is the antithesis for what makes humanity shine and the sump for what makes it ghastly and repugnant.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:42 pm**

Chaz wrote: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:36 pm Oh it gets better. Maybe you'd like to hear him complaining that his own AG didn't cover up investigations into Republicans to help them in elections?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8573130752

Spoiler:
Two long running, Obama era, investigations of two very popular Republican Congressmen were brought to a well publicized charge, just ahead of the Mid-Terms, by the Jeff Sessions Justice Department. Two easy wins now in doubt because there is not enough time. Good job Jeff......

I can't even. This is so openly authoritarian that you have to be stupid to miss it and fascist to applaud it.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:05 pm**

It’s depressing that the morons who voted for him actually think he’s a great boss. Any businessman who would treat their employees like that on social media would be called out as a horrible business leader. But hey, they weren’t really voting with their brains now, we’re they?

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:12 pm**

hepcat wrote:It’s depressing that the morons who voted for him actually think he’s a great boss. Any businessman who would treat their employees like that on social media would be called out as a horrible business leader. But hey, they weren’t really voting with their brains now, we’re they?

The vast majority of the Trump voters I know who are not avid Fox News watchers aren't even aware of his tweets, his constant barrage of lies, or his almost daily blunders. That's because they don't watch the news or purposefully avoid "news and social media because they don't want to hear about all the politics."

It pisses me off. It's like they set my house on fire and then just walked off because they didn't want to be bothered with the aftermath.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:28 am**

YellowKing wrote: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:12 pm

It pisses me off. It's like they set my house on fire and then just walked off because they didn't want to be bothered with the aftermath.[/quote]
Times like this make me wish there was a test - just to see if you're at least marginally aware of the world around you - before being able to vote.

Part of the reason I liked the government in the Starship Troopers book/movie. You had to care enough to join up and stand for something before you were permitted to vote. If you didn't want to, you could lead a cozy, fluffy life... but you didn't get to make decisions that affected the world.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:02 am**

Paingod wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:28 am Part of the reason I liked the government in the Starship Troopers book/movie. You had to care enough to join up and stand for something before you were permitted to vote. If you didn't want to, you could lead a cozy, fluffy life... but you didn't get to make decisions that affected the world.

The government in Starship Troopers is 100% fascist. And you LIKE that?

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 am**

pr0ner wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:02 am
Paingod wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:28 am Part of the reason I liked the government in the Starship Troopers book/movie. You had to care enough to join up and stand for something before you were permitted to vote. If you didn't want to, you could lead a cozy, fluffy life... but you didn't get to make decisions that affected the world.
The government in Starship Troopers is 100% fascist. And you LIKE that?

I suppose I'll have to re-read the book. It's probably been over a decade.

What I remember is a government that was a democracy, but only for those who felt it was important enough to vote, so they put in the effort to become Citizens. If you didn't want to vote, you didn't have to. I don't remember Civilians being abused or trampled. They lived good lives, but didn't get to be involved in global decisions.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:30 am**

Nope. The government in Starship Troopers is fascist. And you're saying that is preferable to the current US government.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:43 am**

pr0ner wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:30 am Nope. The government in Starship Troopers is fascist. And you're saying that is preferable to the current US government.

What I remember from that (which may not be true) is preferable to the hot mess the US government is right now. It seems clear that having the only barrier to deciding the world's fate is that you're 18 or older isn't a strong marker of actual responsibility or integrity. It's gotten us to a point where we have a clueless tyrannical man-baby backed by corporate shills shoveling money out of the treasury as fast as they can for their own benefit while the world is literally heating up to a point where we may go extinct, and 30-35% of the population think this is great.

I believe that surviving climate change at this point is going to take a drastic, concerted effort that's going to make a lot of people very unhappy because they'll need to sacrifice and that sort of action has to come from the top-down because there are too many people who just don't or won't care in time to prevent the majority of the damage to the ecosystem.

Would I prefer to live in a fully democratic world where everyone gets a vote and we all work together for the betterment of humanity? Fuck yes.

Do I believe people, as a whole, are even remotely capable of that? Fuck no. Time and again we prove ourselves to be our own greatest enemies.

So the grim, cynical realist in me would prefer a government that takes care of the world first, even if it's unpopular. You can't make unpopular choices in governments where everyone has a say. So.

I end up liking the concept of a government that can get shit done for the betterment of humanity, sometimes against the wishes of its own population. I suppose that would take a fascist.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:48 am**

Adding requirements to voting is a road we've gone down before, with really dark results. We shouldn't do that again, if for no other reason that even if implemented with the best of intentions, some groups will figure out ways to use it specifically to disenfranchise groups they don't want voting. My evidence for this is that things exactly like that are already happening all over the place.

The real answer is to drastically increase voter participation. The reason we get outlier results right now is that the extreme voters that think Trump is a great idea are also very reliable voters. Theoretically, if we can convince much larger numbers of people to vote, those extreme views would be buried by more "normal" voters, and they wouldn't get to affect the outcome.

Unfortunately, as a nation, we've managed to forget the importance of everyone exercising their right to vote, and the actual mechanics put in place to vote naturally depress turnout. There's a bunch of reforms we could put in place to make voting easier and increase turnout, but there has to be a consensus that the ultimate goal is to get to 100% turnout. Right now, we're not even close, and the goal is basically "get all of my people out, and keep yours from voting however possible." That has to stop, but I don't know how we do it.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:52 am**

Yeah, you definitely want to re-read the book. I think the movie does a better job at making it clearer - in particular how the military-industrial complex is the driving force for everything.

Regardless, Trump isn't our President because deplorables voted him in. Instead, Trump is our President because a significant number of Americans couldn't be bothered to vote. While we can debate how effective their votes would have been (because of Gerrymandering), the fact remains that somewhere around 58% of eligible voters participated.

I'm fully of the mind that we get the government we deserve. If what has transpired over the last 2 years doesn't move the voting needle then we'll continue to get what we deserve.

EDIT: What Chaz said

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:52 am**

Chaz wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:48 amI don't know how we do it.

Give everyone who votes a PIN code to apply to their tax refund each year for a $500 tax credit. Or something similar.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:54 am**

Paingod wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 am
pr0ner wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:02 am
Paingod wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:28 am Part of the reason I liked the government in the Starship Troopers book/movie. You had to care enough to join up and stand for something before you were permitted to vote. If you didn't want to, you could lead a cozy, fluffy life... but you didn't get to make decisions that affected the world.
The government in Starship Troopers is 100% fascist. And you LIKE that?
I suppose I'll have to re-read the book. It's probably been over a decade.

What I remember is a government that was a democracy, but only for those who felt it was important enough to vote, so they put in the effort to become Citizens. If you didn't want to vote, you didn't have to. I don't remember Civilians being abused or trampled. They lived good lives, but didn't get to be involved in global decisions.

FWIW, I don't remember it as fascist either. I remember it as you do - only citizens have the right to vote and you become a citizen through government service.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:55 am**

Paingod wrote:
Chaz wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:48 amI don't know how we do it.
Give everyone who votes a PIN code to apply to their tax refund each year for a $500 tax credit. Or something similar.

Interesting. But then we raise the odds of voter fraud and it feels kind of like a bribe instead of a duty. However, I’d love to work on this program.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:03 am**

stessier wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:54 am
Paingod wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 am
pr0ner wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:02 am
Paingod wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:28 am Part of the reason I liked the government in the Starship Troopers book/movie. You had to care enough to join up and stand for something before you were permitted to vote. If you didn't want to, you could lead a cozy, fluffy life... but you didn't get to make decisions that affected the world.
The government in Starship Troopers is 100% fascist. And you LIKE that?
I suppose I'll have to re-read the book. It's probably been over a decade.

What I remember is a government that was a democracy, but only for those who felt it was important enough to vote, so they put in the effort to become Citizens. If you didn't want to vote, you didn't have to. I don't remember Civilians being abused or trampled. They lived good lives, but didn't get to be involved in global decisions.
FWIW, I don't remember it as fascist either. I remember it as you do - only citizens have the right to vote and you become a citizen through government service.

Yes. That's totally NOT fascist.

Would you like to know more?

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:04 am**

Scoop20906 wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:55 am
Paingod wrote:
Chaz wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:48 amI don't know how we do it.
Give everyone who votes a PIN code to apply to their tax refund each year for a $500 tax credit. Or something similar.
Interesting. But then we raise the odds of voter fraud and it feels kind of like a bribe instead of a duty. However, I’d love to work on this program.

Problem is that is doesn't give any incentive to those who pay no taxes, aka the poor. Who also happen to be the most marginalized and least participatory voters.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:21 am**

pr0ner wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:03 am Would you like to know more?

I see what you did there.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:29 am**

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:04 am
Scoop20906 wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:55 am
Paingod wrote:
Chaz wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:48 amI don't know how we do it.
Give everyone who votes a PIN code to apply to their tax refund each year for a $500 tax credit. Or something similar.
Interesting. But then we raise the odds of voter fraud and it feels kind of like a bribe instead of a duty. However, I’d love to work on this program.
Problem is that is doesn't give any incentive to those who pay no taxes, aka the poor. Who also happen to be the most marginalized and least participatory voters.

Ironically, that means that the tax credit proposal would actually be more likely to be supported by the GOP.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:09 am**

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:52 am
Regardless, Trump isn't our President because deplorables voted him in. Instead, Trump is our President because a significant number of Americans couldn't be bothered to vote. While we can debate how effective their votes would have been (because of Gerrymandering), the fact remains that somewhere around 58% of eligible voters participated.

That, and the Russians indirectly tipped a few close states. Let's not forget that not only did Trump lose the popular vote, he also cheated to game the system (or others cheated on his behalf, if you want to be charitable). Trump is not a legitimate president.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:35 am**

So, details of Bob Woodward's book are starting to make it out, and hooooooo boy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 6132a883f1

White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly frequently lost his temper and told colleagues that he thought the president was “unhinged,” Woodward writes. In one small group meeting, Kelly said of Trump: “He’s an idiot. It’s pointless to try to convince him of anything. He’s gone off the rails. We’re in Crazytown. I don’t even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I’ve ever had.”

Reince Priebus, Kelly’s predecessor, fretted that he could do little to constrain Trump from sparking chaos. Woodward writes that Priebus dubbed the presidential bedroom, where Trump obsessively watched cable news and tweeted, “the devil’s workshop,” and said early mornings and Sunday evenings, when the president often set off tweetstorms, were “the witching hour.”
...
After Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad launched a chemical attack on civilians in April 2017, Trump called Mattis and said he wanted to assassinate the dictator. “Let’s fucking kill him! Let’s go in. Let’s kill the fucking lot of them,” Trump said, according to Woodward.

Mattis told the president that he would get right on it. But after hanging up the phone, he told a senior aide: “We’re not going to do any of that. We’re going to be much more measured.” The national security team developed options for the more conventional airstrike that Trump ultimately ordered.
...
Such tensions boiled among many of Trump’s core advisers. Priebus is quoted as describing Trump officials not as rivals but as “natural predators.”

“When you put a snake and a rat and a falcon and a rabbit and a shark and a seal in a zoo without walls, things start getting nasty and bloody,” Priebus says.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:06 pm**

hepcat wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:21 am
pr0ner wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:03 am Would you like to know more?
I see what you did there.

I mean, how could I not?!

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:08 pm**

Sepiche wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:35 am So, details of Bob Woodward's book are starting to make it out, and hooooooo boy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 6132a883f1

White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly frequently lost his temper and told colleagues that he thought the president was “unhinged,” Woodward writes. In one small group meeting, Kelly said of Trump: “He’s an idiot. It’s pointless to try to convince him of anything. He’s gone off the rails. We’re in Crazytown. I don’t even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I’ve ever had.”

Reince Priebus, Kelly’s predecessor, fretted that he could do little to constrain Trump from sparking chaos. Woodward writes that Priebus dubbed the presidential bedroom, where Trump obsessively watched cable news and tweeted, “the devil’s workshop,” and said early mornings and Sunday evenings, when the president often set off tweetstorms, were “the witching hour.”
...
After Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad launched a chemical attack on civilians in April 2017, Trump called Mattis and said he wanted to assassinate the dictator. “Let’s fucking kill him! Let’s go in. Let’s kill the fucking lot of them,” Trump said, according to Woodward.

Mattis told the president that he would get right on it. But after hanging up the phone, he told a senior aide: “We’re not going to do any of that. We’re going to be much more measured.” The national security team developed options for the more conventional airstrike that Trump ultimately ordered.
...
Such tensions boiled among many of Trump’s core advisers. Priebus is quoted as describing Trump officials not as rivals but as “natural predators.”

“When you put a snake and a rat and a falcon and a rabbit and a shark and a seal in a zoo without walls, things start getting nasty and bloody,” Priebus says.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Let’s kill the fucking lot of them

No way he said that. He could have said something close, with the same meaning, but no way that's an exact quote. Far too literate.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:19 pm**

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:08 pm
Let’s kill the fucking lot of them
No way he said that. He could have said something close, with the same meaning, but no way that's an exact quote. Far too literate.

At a guess, that's intended as a quote of his source's description of the conversation rather than of Trump himself.

Posted: **Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:33 pm**

Sepiche wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:35 amThat's just the tip, said the GOP, smiling...

My favorite part.

Dowd told Trump: “Don’t testify. It’s either that or an orange jumpsuit.”

But Trump, concerned about the optics of a president refusing to testify and convinced that he could handle Mueller’s questions, had by then decided otherwise.

“I’ll be a real good witness,” Trump told Dowd, according to Woodward.

“You are not a good witness,” Dowd replied. “Mr. President, I’m afraid I just can’t help you.”

The next morning, Dowd resigned.

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