Skinypupy wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:55 am
Among the faithful 25-30% (who will not waver, regardless of the message), he's absolutely correct in that assumption. I'm seeing lots of cheers about this proclamation from the MAGA crowd on social media this morning.
Were there a lot of complaints about his handling of the shooting from that same MAGA crowd prior?
Not that I noticed. They all seemed to mostly ignore that particular bit of awful.
see my edited response.
I would consider the argument that he is intentionally doing so many awful things that the press can't stay focused on any one thing, but I'm still not sure how that helps him. Maybe through outrage fatigue?
Has there been any polling on sending troops to the Mexican border?
The caravan isn't some RPG-waving terrorist group Americans will immediately rally against. It seems to me that mobilizing the army against refugees is the kind of move that (like caging migrant children) will enthuse the base but alienate many of the rest.
Does Trump think he can whip the Deplorables so far up that they'll vote twice?
Skinypupy wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:55 am
Among the faithful 25-30% (who will not waver, regardless of the message), he's absolutely correct in that assumption. I'm seeing lots of cheers about this proclamation from the MAGA crowd on social media this morning.
Were there a lot of complaints about his handling of the shooting from that same MAGA crowd prior?
Not that I noticed. They all seemed to mostly ignore that particular bit of awful.
see my edited response.
I would consider the argument that he is intentionally doing so many awful things that the press can't stay focused on any one thing, but I'm still not sure how that helps him. Maybe through outrage fatigue?
He keeps attention on himself so nobody else can be heard.
Holman wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:10 am
Has there been any polling on sending troops to the Mexican border?
The caravan isn't some RPG-waving terrorist group Americans will immediately rally against. It seems to me that mobilizing the army against refugees is the kind of move that (like caging migrant children) will enthuse the base but alienate many of the rest.
Does Trump think he can whip the Deplorables so far up that they'll vote twice?
I suppose you could argue that at this point it's far too late to course correct, so better to double down and try to win with pure base mobilization. And arguably what they are trying to do is to be able to sustainably execute super unpopular regressive policies, and in order to be able to do that long term they need to (1) build a hardcore base that will turn out to vote; and (2) as much as possible de facto limit the vote to that base (and as little beyond that base as possible).
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:02 am
I would consider the argument that he is intentionally doing so many awful things that the press can't stay focused on any one thing, but I'm still not sure how that helps him. Maybe through outrage fatigue?
I think his base will interpret his overturning of the 14th amendment as being strong on immigration without any deeper understanding of it.
He thinks talking about immigration instead of the shootings or anything else is a net gain in enthusiasm for him before the midterm.
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:02 am
I would consider the argument that he is intentionally doing so many awful things that the press can't stay focused on any one thing, but I'm still not sure how that helps him. Maybe through outrage fatigue?
I think his base will interpret his overturning of the 14th amendment as being strong on immigration without any deeper understanding of it.
He thinks talking about immigration instead of the shootings or anything else is a net gain in enthusiasm for him before the midterm.
Yeah. And of course the base interprets liberal outrage not as valid criticism but as a sign of Trump's strength.
Sepiche wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:49 am
In his mind: yes. He doesn't get/believe that the majority of the country thinks clamping down on immigration is wrong. He's thought it's a winning issue for some time.
So you think that he thinks he's getting bad press about his handling of the shooting, but you think that he thinks he'll get good press if he's "tough on immigration"? via undermining the constitution?
His supporters hate all immigrants, but only love the good parts of the constitution. And he doesn't care about anyone but his supporters.
Really, though, this is about regaining control of the headlines, which has been his secret sauce from the get-go.
Again, my point is how does replacing headlines about him not caring about Jews with him changing the constitution in his fight against immigration change anything at all for those reading the headlines?
The same people that care on either side of the Pittsburgh shooting care on the same side of the immigration deconstitutionalization.
Who is he reaching now that he wasn't reaching before? Or Vers Viva?
If we're going to nuke birthright citizenship, we're going to be uniform about it, right? Like, we all then get to prove we deserve it in order to continue having citizenship rights?
I'd be down for that. Something tells me Trump & Co wouldn't be, though.
GreenGoo wrote:Again, my point is how does replacing headlines about him not caring about Jews with him changing the constitution in his fight against immigration change anything at all for those reading the headlines?
Two different audiences. "Trump mishandles shooting" is red meat for liberals, but "Trump to end birthright citizenship" is red meat for his base. And that's all he cares about.
GreenGoo wrote:Again, my point is how does replacing headlines about him not caring about Jews with him changing the constitution in his fight against immigration change anything at all for those reading the headlines?
Two different audiences. "Trump mishandles shooting" is red meat for liberals, but "Trump to end birthright citizenship" is red meat for his base. And that's all he cares about.
I guess.
The message is the same to the different audiences imo.
"Drumpf doesn't care about Jews" is pretty redmeatish for a significant number of his supporters as well.
"Drumpf to end birthright citizenship" has got to be pretty redmeatish for his detractors too, I would think.
I'm not sure the headlines are as strong as "Trump doesn't care about Jews." The handling of the shooting just makes Trump look incompetent and unsympathetic. That's something that could hurt his image across both parties.
Holman wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:52 am
This morning Trump is floating the idea that he can sign an executive order to end birthright citizenship.
It really is Racism Week. I guess Trump figures it worked in 2016.
Or maybe he was shaken by the news that he hadn't yet locked down the Pittsburgh Shooter Actual Nazi vote.
If he actually signs such an Executive Order, I would perceive him to be in clear violation of his Oath of Office to uphold and protect the Constitution of the US.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Further: @realDonaldTrump WH called the top #PA and #Pittsburgh officials one at a time and lied to each that the others had agreed. WH did the same to #Schumer and #Pelosi. No one bit. WH also trying to push #Trump into hospital rooms of victims but most want no part of him.
Unagi wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:29 pm
I'm not following... what did he lie about them agreeing to?
and what does 'no one bit' imply in the story?
Missing is what he was trying to get them to agree to. "No one bit" means no one agreed to it despite lies that "everyone is doing it. You'll be the only one who isn't". Whatever "it" is in this case.
edit: Context from the tweet thread implies that he's looking to visit the hospital. I guess to visit the police officers who were wounded?
The most terrifying thing to me is that there's no bottom to how low this ahole will go. AND his supporters are eating it all up. If the dems don't win the house next week it's really going to be hard to have any hope. To imagine that a president is saying he will use an executive order on an amendment is mind boggling. To have aholes like Graham back him up is even worse. F everyone.
And I'm more than a little terrified that he will double down the crazy if the dems do take the house. Executive orders will be flying left and right.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.
YellowKing wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
WH lied to each official claiming the other officials had agreed to accompany Trump on the family hospital visits.
This is literally a trick teenagers use to go to a party by telling each set of parents that they're having a sleepover at the other persons house.
It's more like "Can I have the last piece of cake? Mom said I could before she left for work".
YellowKing wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
This is literally a trick teenagers use to go to a party by telling each set of parents that they're having a sleepover at the other persons house.
Unagi wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:29 pm
I'm not following... what did he lie about them agreeing to?
and what does 'no one bit' imply in the story?
Missing is what he was trying to get them to agree to.
Yeah, that's what I was asking - I wasn't sure if it was the hospital visit or a visit to the state/city itself.
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:32 pm
"No one bit" means no one agreed to it despite lies that "everyone is doing it. You'll be the only one who isn't". Whatever "it" is in this case.
I was curious if the author was talking about a time with Schumer and Pelosi - where no one bit.
Also, I also want to hear more about the story of them Not Biting... Cause that's the fun part of the story... When both parents find out that NEITHER of them was OK with the Sleep Over.
YellowKing wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
This is literally a trick teenagers use to go to a party by telling each set of parents that they're having a sleepover at the other persons house.
I was JUST going to post that!
<dons pedantic hat>
Except Drumpf is not lying about what he wants, he's only lying that he has already been given permission. It's a done deal and the phone call is just a courtesy, really.
How many peoples' blessings does he need to do this anyway?
Last edited by GreenGoo on Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
YellowKing wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
WH lied to each official claiming the other officials had agreed to accompany Trump on the family hospital visits.
This is literally a trick teenagers use to go to a party by telling each set of parents that they're having a sleepover at the other persons house.
It's more like "Can I have the last piece of cake? Mom said I could before she left for work".
It's more like:
Dad, can I sleep over at Bob's house tonight? Mom said it was OK if you said it was OK...
Mom, can I sleep over at Bob's house tonight? Dad said it was OK if you said it was OK...
edit: ok, that's quite a bit like yours... never mind - splitting hairs.
YellowKing wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
WH lied to each official claiming the other officials had agreed to accompany Trump on the family hospital visits.
This is literally a trick teenagers use to go to a party by telling each set of parents that they're having a sleepover at the other persons house.
I think it was a public rally, not for the hospital visits, FWIW. Either way no one believed him and no one agreed to show up.
What do these asshats plan to introduce as a substitute to the 14th Amendment? Loyalty tests? America is successful because we promote freedom, accept those immigrants willing to take chances, and are global leaders. Trump opposes everything that makes America Great.
The Republicans have become the party of face-eating leopards.
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -Terry Pratchett, The Truth "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
House Speaker Paul Ryan disagreed with President Trump about the constitutionality of eliminating automatic citizenship for people born in the United States. Ryan's comments came after Mr. Trump told "Axios on HBO" on Tuesday that he plans to sign an executive order to "remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S.-soil."
"You cannot end birthright citizenship with an executive order," Ryan said in a Tuesday interview with "Larry Glover Live" on WVLK. "We didn't like it when Obama tried changing immigration laws via executive action, and obviously as conservatives we believe in the Constitution."
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
What do these asshats plan to introduce as a substitute to the 14th Amendment? Loyalty tests? America is successful because we promote freedom, accept those immigrants willing to take chances, and are global leaders. Trump opposes everything that makes America Great.
The Republicans have become the party of face-eating leopards.
Not that I disagree with your assessment of Graham, but as the article notes he was touting this particular horn at least as far back as 2010. So it's not like he's suddenly adopting it in response to Trump's tweet.
Birthright citizenship sprang from the ashes of the worst Supreme Court decision in U.S. history, Dred Scott v. Sandford, the 1857 decision that said that slaves, and the children of slaves, could not be citizens of the United States. The blood of hundreds of thousands of Americans was shed to repudiate that idea.
Afterward, the drafters of the 14th Amendment declared in their very first sentence, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” The drafters were motivated by their utter revulsion toward slavery and a system that relegated people to subordinate political status because of their birth. They weren’t thinking of, or concerned with, any exceptions to birthright citizenship other than the absolutely essential.
He was wrong — a constitutional amendment would indeed be necessary to revoke birthright citizenship. But no matter what, an executive order could never suffice, notwithstanding the president’s assertion to Axios: “You can definitely do it with an act of Congress. But now they’re saying I can do it just with an executive order.” Whoever they are, they have it wrong. An executive order to reinterpret “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” could never pass muster because, if the Constitution provides any leeway to decide the meaning of that phrase, it provides it to Congress, and not the president.
The fact that the two of us, one a conservative and the other a liberal, agree on this much despite our sharp policy differences underscores something it is critically important to remember during a time marked by so much rancor and uncivil discourse: Our Constitution is a bipartisan document, designed to endure for ages. Its words have meaning that cannot be wished away.
Fake Hillary and her Fake Facts. Alternative Fact: Trump was born directly from the soil of America, his parents and grandparents were people he adopted to make them citizens in America.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2025-01-20: The nightmares continue.
YellowKing wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
This is literally a trick teenagers use to go to a party by telling each set of parents that they're having a sleepover at the other persons house.
I was JUST going to post that!
<dons pedantic hat>
Except Drumpf is not lying about what he wants, he's only lying that he has already been given permission. It's a done deal and the phone call is just a courtesy, really.
How many peoples' blessings does he need to do this anyway?
My guess is that his handlers told him that the optics would be better if he had a joint photo-op with Democratic leaders. They could tout it as the moment he reached out and united the American people in this most difficult of times; it would be when he truly became the President. Just in time for the mid-terms. It's a perfectly cromulent idea, but they then went on to attempt to put it in action in the most comically inept and corrupt manner possible, because that's just how this administration rolls.
"What? What?What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
It's almost hard to believe he would try this. He's implying that the refugee group overcame the Mexican army and is now marching through Mexico unimpeded like victorious conquerors.
The truth is that the Mexican government is assisting them with security and health needs.
