Octopus Overlords

Kurth wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 2:27 pmAgain, for the record, I can't stand DeSantis and oppose nearly all of his policies and ALL of his personality, but he does not pose the existential crisis to this country that Trump and MAGA do.

Have you been paying attention to what he's up to here in Florida? I've lived through several terrible governors here, and none have abused their power in the way DeSantis does.

I had just read the same article and then coincidentally saw the Tweet. Vivek Ramaswamy is plain old lying and if journalists are going to be fired for challenging liars...well that's the American media model in a nutshell.

msteelers wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:18 pm

Kurth wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 2:27 pmAgain, for the record, I can't stand DeSantis and oppose nearly all of his policies and ALL of his personality, but he does not pose the existential crisis to this country that Trump and MAGA do.

Have you been paying attention to what he's up to here in Florida? I've lived through several terrible governors here, and none have abused their power in the way DeSantis does.

Agree. It's just a different path on the same journey. They both are walking the same direction towards Hell. Maybe Trump's is more direct but DeSantis is a different flavor of the authoritarianism necessary when you've become too extreme for the electorate.

Unagi wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:58 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:54 am It feels crazy asking this about someone who is in large part responsible for his network paying a $787 million judgment but...why is he being forced out now? Is this coming more from him or from the network?

Personally, I think it’s because today is my birthday!

Happy Birthday!

Tucker may have a job offer:

Heh:

I skip the news for a few hours and this happens. Good bye, Fucker.

Oh, sorry. Typo. Gosh, is my face red.

I meant to say, "Good riddance, Fucker."

For his next act, watch Tucker declare he is running for office at 1600 Penn Ave.

His policy will be to dismantle the first amendment because journalists are liars.

What Carlson and Lemon should do is create a sitcom.

On April 24th, Tucker Carlson was asked to remove himself from his place of employment; that request came from his boss. Deep down, he knew his boss was right, but he also knew that some day he would return to him.

With nowhere else to go, he appeared at the home of his friend, Don Lemon. Several hours earlier, Lemon's boss had thrown him out, requesting that he never return.

Can two unemployed men share an apartment without driving each other crazy?

Maybe they can talk about candy all day and blame it all on hunter Biden and women over 50.

So, apparently, Abby Grossberg has audio tape of Tucker saying some awful stuff.

Also, tapes of Ted Cruz discussing the denying of the certification on Jan 6th.

Unagi wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:53 pm So, apparently, Abby Grossberg has audio tape of Tucker saying some awful stuff.

Also, tapes of Ted Cruz discussing the denying of the certification on Jan 6th.

My current theory is that Fox leadership is worried that Tucker will keep piling up $787 million judgments against Fox, and that they're going to use the Abby Grossberg stuff as justification to fire him to minimize the loss of MAGA viewers.

msteelers wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:18 pm

Kurth wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 2:27 pmAgain, for the record, I can't stand DeSantis and oppose nearly all of his policies and ALL of his personality, but he does not pose the existential crisis to this country that Trump and MAGA do.

Have you been paying attention to what he's up to here in Florida? I've lived through several terrible governors here, and none have abused their power in the way DeSantis does.

I have definitely been paying attention to DeSantis. My family all lives in Jacksonville, FL, and I visit a couple times a year, so FL is always on my radar screen.

I’m not disagreeing with you that DeSantis is terrible or that his abuse of power seems boundless. But we’ve had many, many other terrible politicians who were more than ready to abuse their power, and yet we get by. Trump and his MAGA cult of personality are singular in this country and pose a unique threat. DeSantis doesn’t even come close.

Kurth wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:29 pmyet we get by

But are we?

Trump and his MAGA cult of personality are singular in this country and pose a unique threat. DeSantis doesn’t even come close.

The GOP Trump or not is a threat to our nation at this point. We need to stop wondering about the form of the destroyer and realize the destroyer is here. We're seeing escalating attacks on our democracy on multiple fronts - many of which have nothing to do with Donald Trump. Tennessee and now Montana are more aligned with DeSantis level abuses of power for instance.

El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:12 pm

Unagi wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:53 pm So, apparently, Abby Grossberg has audio tape of Tucker saying some awful stuff.

Also, tapes of Ted Cruz discussing the denying of the certification on Jan 6th.

My current theory is that Fox leadership is worried that Tucker will keep piling up $787 million judgments against Fox, and that they're going to use the Abby Grossberg stuff as justification to fire him to minimize the loss of MAGA viewers.

It sounds like Carlson was going to have to testify if Dominion went to trial, so I'm guessing they were keeping him on until then so he wouldn't go scorched earth against them.

malchior wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:32 pm

Kurth wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:29 pmyet we get by

But are we?

Trump and his MAGA cult of personality are singular in this country and pose a unique threat. DeSantis doesn’t even come close.

The GOP Trump or not is a threat to our nation at this point. We need to stop wondering about the form of the destroyer and realize the destroyer is here. We're seeing escalating attacks on our democracy on multiple fronts - many of which have nothing to do with Donald Trump. Tennessee and now Montana are more aligned with DeSantis level abuses of power for instance.

Of course. But, as I see things, one is a much, much bigger and more immediate threat than the other. It's very hard for me to envision a scenario where this country can get through another Trump administration. I think we can survive DeSantis, as distasteful as that might be.

El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:12 pm

Unagi wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:53 pm So, apparently, Abby Grossberg has audio tape of Tucker saying some awful stuff.

Also, tapes of Ted Cruz discussing the denying of the certification on Jan 6th.

My current theory is that Fox leadership is worried that Tucker will keep piling up $787 million judgments against Fox, and that they're going to use the Abby Grossberg stuff as justification to fire him to minimize the loss of MAGA viewers.

I think given what’s happened and been said it’s more likely that Tucker was given editorial direction by the Murdochs to do something like support desantis and he said no.

Trump has opened the door now. The republicans at large are seeking to create a federal Modi/Orban style managed democracy which you already see in many red states like Wisconsin where despite a 50/50 vote split you have a 70/30 legislative split. Trump wants a cult of personality and a Russia style government.

The reality is the two party system is broken and needs reform. The biggest issue is so many seats in state and federal level are safe.

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:57 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:12 pm

Unagi wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:53 pm So, apparently, Abby Grossberg has audio tape of Tucker saying some awful stuff.

Also, tapes of Ted Cruz discussing the denying of the certification on Jan 6th.

My current theory is that Fox leadership is worried that Tucker will keep piling up $787 million judgments against Fox, and that they're going to use the Abby Grossberg stuff as justification to fire him to minimize the loss of MAGA viewers.

It sounds like Carlson was going to have to testify if Dominion went to trial, so I'm guessing they were keeping him on until then so he wouldn't go scorched earth against them.

I'm sure they made it clear they were sitting on a shit ton of "Tucker dirt" that they would be forced to reveal if Tucker were to go scorched earth against them.

There is some irony in FOX News deciding that it needed to remove its dick.

Independent

Tucker Carlson finally broke his silence after being fired from Fox News by releasing a blistering Twitter video on Wednesday night, making thinly-veiled jabs at his former employer.

In a rambling conspiracy-driven monologue, the right-wing commentator suggested he was the victim of efforts to suppress discussion of “big topics, the ones that will determine our futures” – but stopped short of referring to Fox News and his departure directly.

Carlson said one of the things he noticed “when you take a little time off is how unbelievably stupid most of the debates you see on television are”.

The views on his video instantly topped ratings on his former primetime show, racking up more than 1.8m views in less than an hour, Twitter statistics show. This compared to the 1.7m viewers who tuned in to watch Fox News Tonight on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, new theories continue to emerge about what led to his firing including the discovery of a video of Carlson making inappropriate comments about women.

In the video, obtained by The New York Times, Carlson discusses whether his “postmenopausal fans” would like how he looks on his show. In another video, he refers to a woman as “yummy”.

Gotta admit, I'm interested in what he has to say for the first time... ever... But not enough to give him air or go to twitter.

I had to go look her up. She's still alive! That's great! 94 and still cracking wise.

It's a Sunday so Meet the Press is failing us as usual. Platforming anti-trans hate from a extreme candidate with zero shot of getting the nomination. Solid stuff.

CNN is COMPLETELY off the rails now.

I guess I'm a little torn about the town hall. On the one hand I very much want Trump to go away forever, and I dislike any legitimization of him but...on the other direct exposure to Trump tends to turn neutral voters off. I feel like a lot depends on how the town hall is done.

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 11:02 pm I guess I'm a little torn about the town hall. On the one hand I very much want Trump to go away forever, and I dislike any legitimization of him but...on the other direct exposure to Trump tends to turn neutral voters off. I feel like a lot depends on how the town hall is done.

If they haven’t been turned off by this point, I don’t know how another town hall would change anyone’s mind.

I think the same - it depends on how it's conducted, though I'm skeptical it will be done well.

Skinypupy wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 12:50 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 11:02 pm I guess I'm a little torn about the town hall. On the one hand I very much want Trump to go away forever, and I dislike any legitimization of him but...on the other direct exposure to Trump tends to turn neutral voters off. I feel like a lot depends on how the town hall is done.

If they haven’t been turned off by this point, I don’t know how another town hall would change anyone’s mind.

It's not about changing minds, it's about reminding them who he is. Some people manage to block that out forget that.

Defiant wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:47 am I think the same - it depends on how it's conducted, though I'm skeptical it will be done well.

Skinypupy wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 12:50 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 11:02 pm I guess I'm a little torn about the town hall. On the one hand I very much want Trump to go away forever, and I dislike any legitimization of him but...on the other direct exposure to Trump tends to turn neutral voters off. I feel like a lot depends on how the town hall is done.

If they haven’t been turned off by this point, I don’t know how another town hall would change anyone’s mind.

It's not about changing minds, it's about reminding them who he is. Some people manage to block that out forget that.

Yup. The more trump is front and center, the more everyone but his base hates him.

Hi-larious sub-headline at Politico

Leonard Leo used Federalist Society contact to obtain $1.6 billion donation

The society’s close ties to Leo’s network raise questions about its nonpartisan, non-political status.

Top notch analysis is within. They figured out that the indicator that the legal advocacy society that has exclusively blessed and created the short-list for Republican hard-right tyrants for years *might* not be nonpartisan, non-political because it took a lot of money from a hard-right oligarch! Beyond the stupid headline they delve into some decent tracking of money trails that sort of make the headline even sillier but also makes the web of corruption even more infuriating.

Kraken wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:59 am

Defiant wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:47 am I think the same - it depends on how it's conducted, though I'm skeptical it will be done well.

Skinypupy wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 12:50 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 11:02 pm I guess I'm a little torn about the town hall. On the one hand I very much want Trump to go away forever, and I dislike any legitimization of him but...on the other direct exposure to Trump tends to turn neutral voters off. I feel like a lot depends on how the town hall is done.

If they haven’t been turned off by this point, I don’t know how another town hall would change anyone’s mind.

It's not about changing minds, it's about reminding them who he is. Some people manage to block that out forget that.

Yup. The more trump is front and center, the more everyone but his base hates him.

Pretty much.

There are also apparently allegations that Trump is appearing on CNN in exchange for getting Trump-friendly people air time on CNN. Not sure how well founded that is, but worth keeping an eye on.

Kraken wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:59 amYup. The more trump is front and center, the more everyone but his base hates him.

Respectfully how is anyone going to learn anything new about Trump now? All I see is people making excuses for the media falling to further lows for clicks. Just like in 2016. I get why because people don't want to face how bad the situation is but that doesn't mean it is not happening. I fear in a year after the media has normalized some of his aberrant behaviors we'll be wondering how he is a contender.

malchior wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:51 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:59 amYup. The more trump is front and center, the more everyone but his base hates him.

Respectfully how is anyone going to learn anything new about Trump now? All I see is people making excuses for the media falling to further lows for clicks. Just like in 2016. I get why because people don't want to face how bad the situation is but that doesn't mean it is not happening. I fear in a year after the media has normalized some of his aberrant behaviors we'll be wondering how he is a contender.

I'm not really commenting on the ethics of CNN hosting a town hall, nor defending their decision to do it. I'm more just saying that I think in general more direct exposure of Trump to the public tends to hurt Trump rather than help him. If I was running Trump's campaign I wouldn't let him talk to any outlet that wasn't known to be friendly & cooperative.

El Guapo wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:58 pm

malchior wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:51 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:59 amYup. The more trump is front and center, the more everyone but his base hates him.

Respectfully how is anyone going to learn anything new about Trump now? All I see is people making excuses for the media falling to further lows for clicks. Just like in 2016. I get why because people don't want to face how bad the situation is but that doesn't mean it is not happening. I fear in a year after the media has normalized some of his aberrant behaviors we'll be wondering how he is a contender.

I'm not really commenting on the ethics of CNN hosting a town hall, nor defending their decision to do it. I'm more just saying that I think in general more direct exposure of Trump to the public tends to hurt Trump rather than help him.

There isn't really any evidence of this. It is frankly a hope. His unfavorable ratings are probably at the ceiling and we're well into diminishing returns here on moving broad support.

However, what we do have evidence for is that support amongst the Republican base is growing. We are seeing more and more support amongst even recalcitrant Republicans abandoning DeSantis and others. Some of it is probably the deplorables rallying around the cult leader but the press is helping shore up Trump's support with the base. I don't know if that matters all that much since it seems super unlikely he won't get the nomination right now. They'll be tuning in and if/when the ratings are good he'll be back in business with the fickle press.

Edit: The sin is that they are already starting to treat him like a normal candidate. We're hearing talk that - he's the frontrunner so people need to hear his views. No they don't. He is a goddamn criminal who tried to commit a coup. We shouldn't even hint that we need to give him coverage. If he wants to speak he can figure out a venue. The networks don't need to provide him free airtime again. They have no obligation to do so and again I don't believe it is in the public interest.

If I was running Trump's campaign I wouldn't let him talk to any outlet that wasn't known to be friendly & cooperative.

I mean that's generally the advice you give a candidate anyway. They only engage with non-friendly press if there is a clear reason. What is happening here is that CNN has made a series of missteps and their ratings have crashed. This is a cynical ratings based business decision that doesn't do anything for the public. If it's true they struck some bargain with Trump then it is all the more wrong.

“This is a cynical ratings based business decision that doesn't do anything for the public.“

I know you don’t think ‘the press’ is some ‘for the greater good’ entity, but it kinda feels that way sometimes. Almost like you had an image of the top media outlets that has probably never existed, and now feel betrayed by their bowing to the almighty dollar.

Cynical as hell, but there it is.

It's a business for sure but there were standards in the past. They've slipped significantly. And it isn't just me saying so. Lots of journalists and media watchdogs have been saying the same.

There also have been improvements. There were abuses like hiding negative information about powerful people -- e.g., JFK and his mistresses -- which largely doesn't happen now. Nonetheless there was a history for a long time in the "modern era" that the largest networks worked directionally in the public interest. There seems to be a lot of evidence the opposite is true now. The public interest has been wholly subverted -- mostly in favorable of 'oligarch' interests and manipulated by all sorts of malignant actors including foreign powers.

Kraken wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:59 am

Defiant wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 1:47 am I think the same - it depends on how it's conducted, though I'm skeptical it will be done well.

Skinypupy wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 12:50 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 11:02 pm I guess I'm a little torn about the town hall. On the one hand I very much want Trump to go away forever, and I dislike any legitimization of him but...on the other direct exposure to Trump tends to turn neutral voters off. I feel like a lot depends on how the town hall is done.

If they haven’t been turned off by this point, I don’t know how another town hall would change anyone’s mind.

It's not about changing minds, it's about reminding them who he is. Some people manage to block that out forget that.

Yup. The more trump is front and center, the more everyone but his base hates him.

I would not be so sure. There are plenty of people who don't want to vote for Biden and Trump could make appeals to them. I'm not certain he would or that he won't fall down while trying but the possibility is there. My faith remains low in my fellow Americans and the system that empowers our government, even as my state is noticeably better in the five years and the youth kept the nation's head above water in 2020.

LordMortis wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 3:03 pmMy faith remains low in my fellow Americans and the system that empowers our government

One piece of evidence right now in open court is the testimony attesting that a former President and frontrunner for 2024 commited multiple sexual assaults. That news largely isn't even making a splash. We've priced in that he is a monster and that is no bar to even approaching the highest office in the land. Americans have earned an assessment of low faith in our collective character.

I think we're still a bit too early for the average American to care simply because we haven't hit primary season yet. If Trump is still embroiled in multiple lawsuits while out there campaigning (which he will be), then I think it becomes a lot more of a focal point.