This is my opinion of course, but I think that peasants being oppressed and then ignoring their howlin. is a much different scenario than directly impacting top tier wealthy folks. The wealthy band together and collectively ignore crimes against the poor folk all the time. But when a wealthy and powerful person starts doing direct damage to other wealthy and powerful persons, thats when the knives come out.
Putin is powerful, but the sanctions from this war are causing direct impact to the oligarchs. And they made collectively decide his genius is "no longer required'
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:58 am
by malchior
Jaymon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:55 am
This is my opinion of course, but I think that peasants being oppressed and then ignoring their howlin. is a much different scenario than directly impacting top tier wealthy folks. The wealthy band together and collectively ignore crimes against the poor folk all the time. But when a wealthy and powerful person starts doing direct damage to other wealthy and powerful persons, thats when the knives come out.
Putin is powerful, but the sanctions from this war are causing direct impact to the oligarchs. And they made collectively decide his genius is "no longer required'
Especially if he does something completely crazy like order a nuclear strike. If removed, it'd probably help the immediate situation. Russia could disentangle from Ukraine but he'd almost certainly be replaced with a different corrupt thug.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:03 pm
by Carpet_pissr
Newcastle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:16 amI am reading some hints that S. American countries are shying away from Russian (ie Cuba, Venezuela...traditional Russian client states).
...directly into China's very wealthy arms. They have been pumping billions in infrastructure into Latin America for the past decade, while we have largely ignored the region.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:55 pm
by msduncan
This is the first thing I've seen (or heard of) so far that I disagree with that the Ukrainians have done:
Dash of "is this real" here but the UA government just released what they claim are dated plans for the invasion. This plan is dated January 18th.
A quick glance shows that the plans even have the daily radio frequencies listed for 2 weeks. This is sort of interesting because one thing that has been observed is that the Russians have been at times broadcasting in the clear. They have not consistently used coded digital radios. That is said by some I've read to be an indicator that the plan broke down.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:03 pm
by malchior
msduncan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:55 pm
This is the first thing I've seen (or heard of) so far that I disagree with that the Ukrainians have done:
It is but they are probably gambling it is small potatoes when the adversary is leveling apartment blocks.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:31 pm
by Carpet_pissr
Not sure if this was already posted, but apparently Lukashenko (mistakenly?) showed a map while giving a presentation, that showed the Russian invasion plans of Ukraine, and it included an invasion into Moldova.
For some reason, the US and Canada is also on the map?!
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:41 pm
by Jaymann
Marching orders for Boebert.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:43 pm
by malchior
Yeah - that whole thing is crazy. It pretty much shows a partitioning of Ukraine. This is straight up WW2 Axis level scheming.
As an aside, I don't get why people do this free form circle with a mouse thing on pictures. Every program has a circle shape. Just use it. This always looks so dumb.
It is but they are probably gambling it is small potatoes when the adversary is leveling apartment blocks.
In several cases they were captured and filmed by civilians. Not sure if civilians are bound by Geneva convention. Certainly don't see these people being dragged before the Hague for letting a kid call his mom.
As for the the UA government doing it, it may violate the letter of the convention (may not, don't know the rules about filming POWs) and they may have to answer for it, but in the face of an invasion it's the kind of thing you figure out and answer for later, if you survive.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm
by malchior
There might be civilians there but the men behind him are probably military and probably technically have custody of him as a POW. They are not supposed to be photographed or humiliated while in custody. Again this is small change stuff. Like Lawbeefaroni said this isn't likely to have you sitting in the dock at the Hague. It isn't like they are torturing him or having him recite anti-Putin statements.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:00 pm
by malchior
Fun note - my afternoon briefing just said that there has been a marked increase in cyberattacks on Russia by civilians. This isn't just anonymous. Apparently people all over are *pissed*. I also just got a blanket email from Corporate saying we're prohibited from using company resources for offensive cyber activities and they don't recommend it on our personal devices. No shit, sherlock.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:11 pm
by malchior
Maybe this is what Biden meant at the end of SOTU?
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:27 pm
by xwraith
From the Ukrainian English language press:
If this is true (could be fog of war/rumor) damn.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:41 pm
by xwraith
Grain of salt would be wise…but,
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:43 pm
by hepcat
I'm viewing a lot of these tweets/news items with some caution these days.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:48 pm
by Blackhawk
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:31 pm
For some reason, the US and Canada is also on the map?!
As is the logo of the US 1st Cavalry, none of which are anywhere near Moldova. There may be some context missing from the circling.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:58 pm
by msduncan
China just vetoed sanctions. They need Russia for when they move on Taiwan, which I assume is in the plans at some point.
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:31 pm
For some reason, the US and Canada is also on the map?!
As is the logo of the US 1st Cavalry, none of which are anywhere near Moldova. There may be some context missing from the circling.
Not sure about the cavalry part, but based on what I read, they were just wondering why there was a breakout showing US and Canada on this strategic, regional map. Obviously no troop markers on it, but why would it be there? WHY?!?!?
It absolutely could be fake, especially considering what I assume is a considerable effort by the Ukrainians to persuade us to do something militarily, by any means possible.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:05 pm
by hepcat
Just read something that struck me as a great idea. Sony and Microsoft should cut off access to their online services for the Playstation and the Xbox. I suspect that will push many from the younger generation to speak out.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:16 pm
by stessier
msduncan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:58 pm
China just vetoed sanctions. They need Russia for when they move on Taiwan, which I assume is in the plans at some point.
I'm seeing they abstained.
Edit: Whoops - sorry, they abstained from Condemning the invasion.
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:31 pm
For some reason, the US and Canada is also on the map?!
As is the logo of the US 1st Cavalry, none of which are anywhere near Moldova. There may be some context missing from the circling.
Not sure about the cavalry part, but based on what I read, they were just wondering why there was a breakout showing US and Canada on this strategic, regional map. Obviously no troop markers on it, but why would it be there? WHY?!?!?
It absolutely could be fake, especially considering what I assume is a considerable effort by the Ukrainians to persuade us to do something militarily, by any means possible.
malchior wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm
There might be civilians there but the men behind him are probably military and probably technically have custody of him as a POW. They are not supposed to be photographed or humiliated while in custody. Again this is small change stuff. Like Lawbeefaroni said this isn't likely to have you sitting in the dock at the Hague. It isn't like they are torturing him or having him recite anti-Putin statements.
Pretty sure they're civilian cops. That's a police car he's standing in front of.
There are a lot of stories of Russian units surrendering to police and regular civilians.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:44 pm
by IceBear
So the Russian foreign ministry said that the economic war will turn into a real war and if WWIII starts nukes will be used. I'm so torn... Bullies and dictators need to be stood up to, but if it means the end of everything...
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:48 pm
by LawBeefaroni
IceBear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:44 pm
So the Russian foreign ministry said that the economic war will turn into a real war and if WWIII starts nukes will be used. I'm so torn... Bullies and dictators need to be stood up to, but if it means the end of everything...
We can hope that their nuclear weapons maintenance schedule is a poor as their military vehicle one...
But yeah, this is the problem with nukes. Anyone who has them has the take-ball-go-home option. They'll die, of course, but so will everyone else.
Is defense of freedom worth your/my life? Sure. Is it worth several million? Yep. Is it worth everyone's life? Things get complicated.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:51 pm
by Jeff V
How about putting up, say, a $1B bounty on Putin's head? Something so outrageous that Putin would have to sleep with one eye open for the rest of his hopefully short life. So far I haven't seen much indication that the war would still be prosecuted if the head is cut off the snake.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:53 pm
by msduncan
Russian jets just violated Sweden's airspace. Retaliation for the UN vote.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:54 pm
by hepcat
Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:51 pm
How about putting up, say, a $1B bounty on Putin's head? Something so outrageous that Putin would have to sleep with one eye open for the rest of his hopefully short life.
Putin can afford 10 times that without batting an eye.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:58 pm
by LawBeefaroni
msduncan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:53 pm
Russian jets just violated Sweden's airspace. Retaliation for the UN vote.
Well shit. Hopefully it was "accidental."
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:04 pm
by Jaymann
I checked the map and Norway (a NATO member) shares a tiny border with Russia.
STOCKHOLM, March 2 (Reuters) - Four Russian fighter jets briefly entered Swedish territory over the Baltic Sea on Wednesday, the Swedish Armed Forces said, sparking a swift condemnation from Sweden's defence minister.
Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:51 pm
How about putting up, say, a $1B bounty on Putin's head? Something so outrageous that Putin would have to sleep with one eye open for the rest of his hopefully short life.
Putin can afford 10 times that without batting an eye.
msduncan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:53 pm
Russian jets just violated Sweden's airspace. Retaliation for the UN vote.
Well shit. Hopefully it was "accidental."
So stupid. Assuming that it wasn't accidental - what's the thinking? That probably by itself pushed up Swedish support for NATO membership by 5 points or so.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:08 pm
by IceBear
Well guys...it was nice knowing everyone but don't know if we're going to be around next week
malchior wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm
There might be civilians there but the men behind him are probably military and probably technically have custody of him as a POW. They are not supposed to be photographed or humiliated while in custody. Again this is small change stuff. Like Lawbeefaroni said this isn't likely to have you sitting in the dock at the Hague. It isn't like they are torturing him or having him recite anti-Putin statements.
Pretty sure they're civilian cops. That's a police car he's standing in front of.
There are a lot of stories of Russian units surrendering to police and regular civilians.
I do like all these stories, but it's important to remember that the plural of anecdotes is not data. I think these are but a small percentage (maybe important, or very important), but small.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:10 pm
by Pyperkub
IceBear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:08 pm
Well guys...it was nice knowing everyone but don't know if we're going to be around next week
malchior wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm
There might be civilians there but the men behind him are probably military and probably technically have custody of him as a POW. They are not supposed to be photographed or humiliated while in custody. Again this is small change stuff. Like Lawbeefaroni said this isn't likely to have you sitting in the dock at the Hague. It isn't like they are torturing him or having him recite anti-Putin statements.
Pretty sure they're civilian cops. That's a police car he's standing in front of.
There are a lot of stories of Russian units surrendering to police and regular civilians.
I do like all these stories, but it's important to remember that the plural of anecdotes is not data. I think these are but a small percentage (maybe important, or very important), but small.
In the context of Geneva Convention violations re broadcasting prisoners, the anecdotes are the data.
