[WW]BSG IX -Cold Blood (Game over)

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:01 pm

bb,

Congrats!

You nailed redrunGalen. Very nicely done.

You also made the correct call in not dragging him out in the open. Although, that took some serious cajones on your part and, thankfully, led to purge's lynch instead of redrun's.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:06 pm

Oh, and Unagi,

How did you know about Scoop and Vorret?

Was it intuition or did you spot something specific in their play?

I know you and I went back and forth about your Vorret suspicions and I acknowledge that you were completely on the side of the angels. I'm just curious how much of it was detective work and how much od it was luck.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:13 pm

stessier wrote:
Qantaga wrote:Evil.

(If he wasn't, he was helping them more than he was us).
At least he was willing to vote. Good gravy man, it was just a game. These were not real life and death decisions! Vote! Vote!! VOTE!!!

I might have gotten a bit worked up about it - maybe because you were generally right.

stess,

Were you playing in this game? It's hard to keep everybody straight.

Seriously, I hope you're going to rejoin us for future games. I missed you. I can always count on knowing at least one adversary when you're in the game.

As for being unwilling to vote, it was all a part of my master plan. (Don't roll your eyes

) With so many players who had real life conflicts, I needed to try to drag as many opinions out into the thread as possible. Otherwise, I knew it would be a very difficult end game. Thankfully, it paid off. (Thanks RMC!)

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:18 pm

Remus West wrote:Also, I was mostly trying to be funny and poke at Qantaga - thus the "every single day" part.

And it surprises you that I want to look at every possible angle (and even some not so possible) before making a decision?

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:21 pm

Good game to Team Evil. You all made this a very entertaining game. It came down to a matter of inches in the end.

I still can't believe you all killed Athena and scanned Starbuck on Night 0. That made Scoop's and Vorret's spoofs all that much more dramatic and confusing.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:25 pm

LM,

I'm dying to know. Did you have any powers left when I was begging you to reveal the night before your death? Or were you drawing fire to yourself, knowing that you had expended all your powers already?

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:28 pm

To everyone that was involved in the game and especially to Lassr, thank you all for an entertaining two months of OOWW-ing.

It was nerve-wracking at times, suspenseful at others, frustrating occasionally, and a whale of a good time.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't expect me to do those mid/late game player summaries again. With 40+ pages, those things were frickin' time consuming.

I'll be quiet now.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue May 07, 2013 10:16 pm

Qantaga wrote:LM,

I'm dying to know. Did you have any powers left when I was begging you to reveal the night before your death? Or were you drawing fire to yourself, knowing that you had expended all your powers already?

Nope. I was fishing for more information and hoping they wouldn't kill holman. I was surprised and happy when it seemed to pan out.

I'm also surprised we pulled it off and sorry I killed Unagi.

Good job guys. I'd have been no help.

redrun · Post by **redrun** » Wed May 08, 2013 12:10 am

Fun game Lassr. I think things balanced out well.

...of course, there is a logic to the idea that since good never used their seer and still won, they don't need one.

Unagi... Yeah, don't ever be evil. Unless I also happen to be evil that game.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Wed May 08, 2013 1:27 am

And I bid you all adieu. My last game. just glad I didn't mess it up enough to get the good guys to lose.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed May 08, 2013 6:21 am

My only regret is worrying about Holman too much. I overreacted... Should have known better

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed May 08, 2013 8:35 am

LordMortis wrote:
Qantaga wrote:LM,

I'm dying to know. Did you have any powers left when I was begging you to reveal the night before your death? Or were you drawing fire to yourself, knowing that you had expended all your powers already?

Nope.

Did you realize you used your powers out of order and could have had 1 more? Lassr and I were discussing it at the time and weren't sure if you fully understood what you could do.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Wed May 08, 2013 8:42 am

Mr Bubbles wrote:And I bid you all adieu. My last game. just glad I didn't mess it up enough to get the good guys to lose.

Mr Bubbles, while I understand your need to retire from these games, I hope you won't be a stranger. Pop in and see us from time to time.

We'll also hope that you can join us for a game or two somewhere down the road.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 08, 2013 9:27 am

stessier wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
Qantaga wrote:LM,

I'm dying to know. Did you have any powers left when I was begging you to reveal the night before your death? Or were you drawing fire to yourself, knowing that you had expended all your powers already?

Nope.
Did you realize you used your powers out of order and could have had 1 more? Lassr and I were discussing it at the time and weren't sure if you fully understood what you could do.

I'm not sure what you mean by out of order. From my read I needed to use my non hidden power (kill someone) to trigger my hidden power (either narrow down who has the bomb or scan a dead person). If I didn't reveal the trigger and could get the trigger to happen a second time then I could scan again. Also I must use my hidden power on day or night in question unless I received 1/4 or more of the votes for the day, in which case I could hold my hidden power and use it on a future day.

He edited my power mid game and it felt like he did so because the humans were being kicked too hard and that didn't feel fair, so I didn't take advantage of the second scan.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:05 am

What I was told is that you didn't have to trigger it a second time. Once the trigger was met, you got two scans and then could kill someone. Once you killed, any unused scans were gone.

Lassr would have to make a final ruling.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:32 am

I would like to add I really did enjoy this game, but I would be remiss if I didn’t comment on the way Scoop was treated in the earlier part of the game. I know we all are aware we need to have a thick skin, but some of the vitriol dished out to Scoop was tough to watch. We actually had to talk him down from leaving the game with the way disdain was thrown his way. We manipulated CR’s absence into saving him, but this wasn’t his fault it was just our best move at the time

Btw, I hope CR is well. I still haven’t seen any post from him in the other forums

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:34 am

tru1cy wrote:Btw, I hope CR is well. I still haven’t seen any post from him in the other forums

He is good. He has been on Xbox when he has free time rather than here.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:34 am

stessier wrote:What I was told is that you didn't have to trigger it a second time. Once the trigger was met, you got two scans and then could kill someone. Once you killed, any unused scans were gone.

Lassr would have to make a final ruling.

Second scan was amended in. Here is is what I went off of:

Cain secret
If you receive 1 lynch vote then you have the option to scan ¼ of the players (rounded down) remaining (your choice) to see if they have a bomb. You will be told just yes or no, not who has it OR you may choose to scan one dead player to earn their role instead. And/Or you may choose to kill someone that day. Once you have used your kill then you lose the ability to scan for the bomb or scan the role of a dead player for the remainder of the game. You may choose to search/scan and kill on the same day. Once the lynch happens and the day is over then these abilities are lost until you receive another lynch vote.
If you receive ½ of the majority of votes (rounded up)for a day then you may use your kill at any time during the day on any day thereafter. (e.g. 9 is the votes needed to lynch. If you receive 5 votes then you may kill at anytime during the game).

If a lynch vote is removed and you have no current lynch votes against you then you lose the ability to do anything for the moment. (Unless you have received 1/2 of the majority votes thus allowing you to kill at anytime)

Several things were at play in my head if I remember correctly (and I usually don't). One, the second I reveal I am Cain and full of secrets is the same second I make myself a target for assassination. Outing a bad cylon is good but I'd rather they out themselves on someone who doesn't get a free kill in the name of the BSG and their assassination could easily happen while I am AFK. Two, Deadlines plus absent players means I didn't want to wait around for group think. It ought to be no secret that I don't play these games primarily because so much time is spent waiting. The solution to this was to put up deadlines but now so much time is spent waiting only to put your back to the wall. It's a dynamic you guys either like or accept. It's one I don't.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:41 am

I did add the second coroner scan because I felt it was needed but in the end the way it played out it was not needed and LM did not use it thinking it was unfair and I respect that.

I think what stessier was talking about is how LM submitted his order to shoot Unagi. You could have used your coroner scan, gotten the results then shot someone, which I'm sure if you had waited you would have chosen a target other than Unagi.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:42 am

tru1cy wrote:I would like to add I really did enjoy this game, but I would be remiss if I didn’t comment on the way Scoop was treated in the earlier part of the game. I know we all are aware we need to have a thick skin, but some of the vitriol dished out to Scoop was tough to watch. We actually had to talk him down from leaving the game with the way disdain was thrown his way. We manipulated CR’s absence into saving him, but this wasn’t his fault it was just our best move at the time

As Lassr noted in the spoiler forum, I didn't detect any vitriol. I just went back and re-read and I still don't see it. There was no personal attack, just a guy calling out someone he sees as a Cylon and everyone else is ignoring. Just my opinion, obviously.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:42 am

tru1cy wrote:I would be remiss if I didn’t comment on the way Scoop was treated in the earlier part of the game. I know we all are aware we need to have a thick skin, but some of the vitriol dished out to Scoop was tough to watch. We actually had to talk him down from leaving the game with the way disdain was thrown his way.

I'll have to go back and look. If I was part of that then I appologize. Scoop is one of the people I think is the most fun to have in the game due to his antics. I hope it does not sour him to playing.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:55 am

I love Scoop. The games are just not the same without him. I hope he knows how much he is appreciated here.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:57 am

Where is the scooper? He hasn't been at OO since April 7th.

Scoop we love you!

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed May 08, 2013 11:04 am

Qantaga wrote:tru1cy,

Kudos to you. You had an uphill battle and you came oh, so close to pulling it off. Congratulations on a game well played.

I was glad that you ramped up your participation in this game and hope this is will be your new playstyle.

I also salute you for taking the most active players into the end game. That was very noble of you and I sincerely tip my hat to you for that.

This was my intent. I didn't want win any other way. Wouldn't have been fair to team good

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed May 08, 2013 11:33 am

Qantaga wrote:Oh, and Unagi,
How did you know about Scoop and Vorret?
....how much of it was detective work and how much of it was luck.

I didn't randomly guess, if that's what you are asking... I deduced they were wolves. I was basically "sure of it", but clearly I wasn't "100% certain".

I don't want to go too much into my methods, frankly, but I play this game more about human behavior and watching how people touch things, and it seems to work for me.

When I was killed, I sent this final guess in to Lassr:

Unagi wrote:I wonder if I'm totally wrong on Scoop and/or Vorret.
So, if I am not - I will guess Scoop, Vorret, Qantaga, purge
tru1cy keeps coming in and out of that list.

tru1cy was a bit 'obvious', but I just couldn't accept that he would be that blunt with things. That kept throwing me off him, but this is like the first time I got to see a bunch of posts from an evil Tru1cy. I think he played a good game.

Regarding this, since it's most obviously directed at ME, I'd really like to talk more about this.

tru1cy wrote:but some of the vitriol dished out to Scoop was tough to watch.

Really?? PLEASE tell me where you see this. Where, tru1cy? Could you go quote the vitriol? I am really bothered by Scoop's reaction to my play, but I don't for a second feel like I did anything wrong or mean at all.

Here is what I see: Scoop was a WOLF. I felt that I detected that early in the game and I said as much. I've played with Scoop (and, frankly, I agree with most everyone - he is (normally) a great guy to play with) and his reaction is also partly what I was watching... and it only served to make me feel he was a WOLF even more. What happened next was Scoop had a total FIT that people were not accepting his lies. That would make some degree of sense if he was actually telling people the truth, and they kept not believeing him. But, oddly, that's not at all what the context of his hissy fit was. He was royally pissed that I was not falling for his lie. I think the snarkiest thing I said was when when he came in and asked who he should scan, and I said he should scan himself and tell us which wolf he really was. Is that seriously something I need to apologize for?

tru1cy wrote:We actually had to talk him down from leaving the game with the way disdain was thrown his way.

No. You needed to talk him down from leaving the game because of SCOOP and how he was (really poorly) reacting to things. This is all on Scoop, not Me, not 'us'. There was no "disdain" thrown his way. he was a wolf, and he didn't enjoy being called one and treated like one. Boo-f'ing-Hoo.

Sorry, I'm just really rubbed wrong by the idea that I treated Scoop with disdain. While it's true that I felt his proclamations of being a human were not worth much consideration - that's a far cry from me saying Scoop is beneath me.

I've always like Scoop. WAY more than he's ever liked me, and that's very obvious to me, given the history I've had with him. I'm bothered to be a part of this whole thing, to be honest. But I'll not be made the villain.

LordMortis wrote: It ought to be no secret that I don't play these games primarily because so much time is spent waiting. The solution to this was to put up deadlines but now so much time is spent waiting only to put your back to the wall. It's a dynamic you guys either like or accept. It's one I don't.

nor do I.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed May 08, 2013 11:49 am

Unagi that was directed at you, but as a group as a whole. If it was directed at you personally I would have taken it to PM. My apologies I didn't want anyone to take what I wrote as a personal affront

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed May 08, 2013 11:53 am

Two comments:

1) Unagi's right about scoop. Plus, this isn't the first time he's been caught in a lie in one of these games and gone completely nuts about it - he did it to me in a previous BSG game once. This isn't new - it's standard procedure when scoop gets caught as being bad and can't convince people otherwise.

2) As I said before, the lack of people making a decision on anything is getting pretty bad. Deadlines help with this, yet they don't because no one wants to do anything until the last day. There were DAYS of posts in this game where people were just checking in and waiting for someone else to come back and have a say before they could make a decision. Or posts where someone would drop in, say he's busy and would respond later.

I get wanting to have as much information as possible to make a decision. But at the same time, all the waiting and inability to make a decision is a drag on the game. Literally.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed May 08, 2013 11:54 am

No need to apologize, and if you hadn't brought it up - I would have...

But, I assume you brought it up because you felt that Scoop was treated uncool by people... and let's be frank, Scoop (I think) was talking about Me.

What I am trying to get us to talk about is: Is Scoop's reaction an over-reaction OR did I (or someone else) really treat him bad?

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Wed May 08, 2013 12:07 pm

Unagi wrote: I've always like Scoop. WAY more than he's ever liked me

I know how you feel because I've always liked you way more than you've liked me.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 08, 2013 12:10 pm

I hate all of you just so that I can be sure you like me better.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Wed May 08, 2013 12:12 pm

pr0ner wrote: 2) As I said before, the lack of people making a decision on anything is getting pretty bad. Deadlines help with this, yet they don't because no one wants to do anything until the last day. There were DAYS of posts in this game where people were just checking in and waiting for someone else to come back and have a say before they could make a decision. Or posts where someone would drop in, say he's busy and would respond later.

I do want to apologize for my part in that. I was trying deliberately to get people on record in the late to mid game because it was obvious by then that the end game would be populated by light contributors. That was the source of my incessant list making on Day 4 and my beating the "Path 1 and Path 2" horse relentlessly on Day 5. I should have been more decisive.

I'm hoping that this game was just a convergence of several players who had real life issues all pop at the same time.

I'm also hoping that we can get a game soon where we all promise to take a more active, fast, and maybe even more reckless, approach to the game. I'll do my part next time to adapt and not try to turn over every last stone.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed May 08, 2013 12:21 pm

Qantaga wrote:
Unagi wrote: I've always like Scoop. WAY more than he's ever liked me

I know how you feel because I've always liked you way more than you've liked me.

Not sure if you are serious (I assume you are). I actually worry that you think I don't like you - when really, I do.
(even though you doubt me at every turn, and monkey wrench my best plans!! ...and take forever!! )

Remus West wrote:I hate all of you just so that I can be sure you like me better.

Yeah, still pretty sure you like me more than I like you.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Wed May 08, 2013 12:43 pm

Unagi wrote: Not sure if you are serious (I assume you are)

No, not serious. I just couldn't resist having a little fun.

I'm secure in our relationship now.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed May 08, 2013 12:49 pm

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Wed May 08, 2013 1:09 pm

I only liked scoop during his Taylor Scoop phase.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed May 08, 2013 1:51 pm

tru1cy wrote:I would like to add I really did enjoy this game, but I would be remiss if I didn’t comment on the way Scoop was treated in the earlier part of the game. I know we all are aware we need to have a thick skin, but some of the vitriol dished out to Scoop was tough to watch. We actually had to talk him down from leaving the game with the way disdain was thrown his way. We manipulated CR’s absence into saving him, but this wasn’t his fault it was just our best move at the time

+1 on that, there is a fine line that I dont think anyone crossed. I do think folks were slamming into Scoop pretty hard. I think a large part was teh fact of coming up against the deadline, and CR being awol, and us being in essence forced and very unhapily in having to vote down CR. I think this fed into a general malaise in the game at the time that was vented on scoop. It would be nice if we could tone it down a bit, some of us dont have adamantium skin.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed May 08, 2013 1:54 pm

And I do also agree that Scoop should have taken a step back and taken a serious deep breath to chill a bit. He was caught red handed and I think very few of us believed him. I know I didnt.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed May 08, 2013 1:58 pm

Unagi wrote:No need to apologize, and if you hadn't brought it up - I would have...

But, I assume you brought it up because you felt that Scoop was treated uncool by people... and let's be frank, Scoop (I think) was talking about Me.

What I am trying to get us to talk about is: Is Scoop's reaction an over-reaction OR did I (or someone else) really treat him bad?

Unagi - you have a way of really getting under people's skin. I am sure its not intentional, but i think its your dogged pursuit and slicing through all the BS. I cant put my finger on it, but at times in the past when we've locked horn I've come across feeling slammed by you and I AM SURE you didnt mean it. I just think you have laser focus on stuff and just swat away all the BS that youv'e already decided was BS and you just wont waste time mincing words.

Not saying you're a dick or anything, i dont hold anything against anyone in these games, since they're uber fun.

Maybe we need an OOWW sensitivity training course? Or maybe a OOWW nutup seminar?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:32 pm

I agree with Unagi in that he didn't do anything wrong. I think he was humorous and blunt, but at the same time, that is just Unagi. You are right NC, he is going to call a wolf a wolf and not mince words about it. I don't get how that is mean.

I also understand Scoop's feelings. When you are trying your damnedest and no one will believe you, it is frustrating. But it happens to everyone in these games. It is a dynamic you cannot escape, even when you are good, let alone when YOU REALLY ARE EVIL!

I hope Scoop (eventually) realizes it was all in good fun.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:50 pm

Unagi, RR, and RW, very solid play. You guys made it possible for the good guys to win when it looked pretty dire. Unagi, your instincts are amazing. I love to watch you play this game.

Q, you had me nervous in the beginning, but you convinced me when you put up those posts since your thoughts pretty closely mirrored mine. I just wished I could have convinced you guys to vote Tru1cy instead of me that day.

Tru1cy, great game. You played masterfully and made it to the end game. I hope you do keep up your participation levels going forward. It suits you.

RMC, even though you got me killed, you didn't f' up at the end.