The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

[Kraken]

I don't worry about dictatorship, at least not for a long time. I worry about our divided government's ability to actually function in a polarized political environment (which I doubt is going away any time soon). I worry about all the policy harms that are likely to ring up unaddressed (by either liberal or conservative-oriented solutions) as a result, such as (say) global warming.

So what happens if a chronically dysfunctional republic elects an aggressively authoritarian leader?

Oh, dictatorship could happen eventually, especially since there will be long-term temptation among presidents of all political stripes to use increasingly creative executive powers in order to get anything done. It will take a long time to break down democratic norms built up over centuries, however, and the extreme difficulty of amending the constitution would make it very difficult for any would-be dictator to overcome term limits.

But given enough time it could happen, just not for a long time. On the upshot, after a few decades or so of dictatorship we'd probably wind up with a functional parliamentary system.

This is not a prediction or an accusation, but a thought exercise: I don't think dictatorships rise gradually. Rather, they take advantage of a power vacuum in a time of crisis (real or manufactured). In the US that would mean fully mobilizing the police state, rounding up or silencing the opposition, scapegoating a particular underclass to create an internal enemy, provoking an external enemy, bypassing an ineffective and unpopular congress, controlling information...stuff like that, all done in the guise of keeping us safe and in a patriotic fever. Point being that it doesn't happen through a gradual hollowing of the constitution, but rather by overturning it before people quite realize that it's happening.

[Scraper]

Yeah, earlier I was going to say that Kasich was the only repub that seemed capable of finding a middle ground in the political process...then I read about that.

He's still the sanest GOP contender, it's just a "land of the blind" type situation there right now.

But he's so inspiring that "many women left their kitchens" to campaign for him!.

Apparently I was duped by dishonest editing. It's not as bad in context.

Yep. Bullshit dirty pool right there. The GOP now desperately needs every vote and poll tic it can get to go Rubio's way. Kasich is roadkill, and that's sad, because he'd actually be a decent president, IMO.

It's funny. I note some of the posts above that seem to write him off because of his stupid move to defund Planned Parenthood, but I'm not going to kill him for that. As already pointed out, it's more symbolic than anything given the paltry funding PP is getting in OH right now. And in the end, we're not going to have anyone from an opposition party who we agree with in everything. That's the whole point of having more than one.

If you're a single issue voter on funding for Planned Parenthood, I guess I can understand. But every issue can't be a single issue.

I'm with you on the single issue. PP won't kill Kasich for me, he would most likely still get my vote over Hillary. When it comes down to it Kasich panders to the right, but he is still more middle of the road than any of the other candidates on most issues.

[LordMortis]

I'm with you on the single issue. PP won't kill Kasich for me, he would most likely still get my vote over Hillary. When it comes down to it Kasich panders to the right, but he is still more middle of the road than any of the other candidates on most issues.

If the left can show Kasich to be a wolf in sheep's clothing then the right/i] might as well go with the hard right.

I have no idea what Kasich's track record is like. The right like to paint Snyder as not hard nosed right, but rather as an accountant and if Kasich is anything like that, I wouldn't let the current Congress anywhere near him.

I simply don't know enough about Kasich and I don't trust either side to tell me.

[Kurth]

I'm with you on the single issue. PP won't kill Kasich for me, he would most likely still get my vote over Hillary. When it comes down to it Kasich panders to the right, but he is still more middle of the road than any of the other candidates on most issues.

If the left can show Kasich to be a wolf in sheep's clothing then the right/i] might as well go with the hard right.

I have no idea what Kasich's track record is like. The right like to paint Snyder as not hard nosed right, but rather as an accountant and if Kasich is anything like that, I wouldn't let the current Congress anywhere near him.

I simply don't know enough about Kasich and I don't trust either side to tell me.

Outside of stupid, out-of-context sound bites about women in the kitchen, no one has shown Kasich to be a wolf in sheep's clothing. The guy is pro-life and has done some pandering on the PP issue. That does not make him an arch conservative. He's got a record dating back to the 70s. While you are bound to find some more and less conservative data points on a graph of his record, the trend line is irrefutable. Kasich is a moderate republican and the only qualified and sane candidate on the GOP slate. And no one will have a chance to vote for him. Great system we've got here . . .

[Isgrimnur]

Dull doesn't motivate turnout. Our system is driven by emotion over logic. And Trump is raw emotion distilled.

[Kurth]

Dull doesn't motivate turnout. Our system is driven by emotion over logic. And Trump is raw emotion distilled.

If we elect Donald Trump - which I don't think we'll do - then this system has fully devolved into reality TV.

[Isgrimnur]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

[Kraken]

The Globe's editorial page today urged independents to take a Republican ballot and vote for Kasich. They had already endorsed Hillary and they consider her inevitable (even though MA is one of the states Sanders hopes to win on Super Tuesday), so they reasoned that voting against Trump is the most effective thing an independent can do.

Their logic is logical if one is willing to concede the nom to Clinton. The Globe happens to be the unofficial mouthpiece of the Dem establishment so their "don't waste your vote on Sanders" stance is predictable.

[LordMortis]

The Globe's editorial page today urged independents to take a Republican ballot and vote for Kasich. They had already endorsed Hillary and they consider her inevitable (even though MA is one of the states Sanders hopes to win on Super Tuesday), so they reasoned that voting against Trump is the most effective thing an independent can do.

Their logic is logical if one is willing to concede the nom to Clinton. The Globe happens to be the unofficial mouthpiece of the Dem establishment so their "don't waste your vote on Sanders" stance is predictable.

If the Globe were really that concerned, shouldn't they ask all Hillary voters to stay home so the independents can have the luxury of choosing to vote for Kasich rather than being forced to worry about taking power away from Hillary?

I would sit home at Primary day if I weren't going to vote for Sanders. After him, nothing else matter.

[GreenGoo]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

[Defiant]

Here’s a part of the political calendar that nobody in the Republican Party seems to have noticed: This spring, just as the GOP nomination battle enters its final phase, frontrunner Donald Trump could be forced to take time out for some unwanted personal business: He’s due to take the witness stand in a federal courtroom in San Diego, where he is being accused of running a financial fraud.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/with-gop ... 50876.html

[Rip]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

I find your lack of faith in the system.......disturbing.

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

[El Guapo]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

I find your lack of faith in the system.......disturbing.

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

Oh, I don't think either would be any more than a shitty near term future (though I am somewhat uncomfortable about giving either nuclear weapons). The stuff about the threat to our democracy isn't from either of them, but my general worry about what's going to play out in the coming century if our government continues to be largely unable to function when in divided control.

[Rip]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

I find your lack of faith in the system.......disturbing.

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

Oh, I don't think either would be any more than a shitty near term future (though I am somewhat uncomfortable about giving either nuclear weapons). The stuff about the threat to our democracy isn't from either of them, but my general worry about what's going to play out in the coming century if our government continues to be largely unable to function when in divided control.

It is a problem that will fix itself. It takes a while but the ship always rights itself when it must. At some point, if required, I'm sure people will start oiling up the guillotines.

[El Guapo]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

I find your lack of faith in the system.......disturbing.

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

Oh, I don't think either would be any more than a shitty near term future (though I am somewhat uncomfortable about giving either nuclear weapons). The stuff about the threat to our democracy isn't from either of them, but my general worry about what's going to play out in the coming century if our government continues to be largely unable to function when in divided control.

It is a problem that will fix itself. It takes a while but the ship always rights itself when it must. At some point, if required, I'm sure people will start oiling up the guillotines.

Well, oiling up the guillotines would be one possible eventual disaster. In general I do think that the ship rights itself over time, but the core problem is with our constitutional structure, which is extremely difficult to amend in any environment, and essentially impossible in a partisan political environment.

So I'm just not sure how this ends other than extremely unpleasantly.

[Rip]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

I find your lack of faith in the system.......disturbing.

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

Oh, I don't think either would be any more than a shitty near term future (though I am somewhat uncomfortable about giving either nuclear weapons). The stuff about the threat to our democracy isn't from either of them, but my general worry about what's going to play out in the coming century if our government continues to be largely unable to function when in divided control.

It is a problem that will fix itself. It takes a while but the ship always rights itself when it must. At some point, if required, I'm sure people will start oiling up the guillotines.

Well, oiling up the guillotines would be one possible eventual disaster. In general I do think that the ship rights itself over time, but the core problem is with our constitutional structure, which is extremely difficult to amend in any environment, and essentially impossible in a partisan political environment.

So I'm just not sure how this ends other than extremely unpleasantly.

There is a good reason for that. It makes it harder for the populists of the day to screw it all up in short order.

Being difficult to amend is a feature not a bug.

[hepcat]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

I find your lack of faith in the system.......disturbing.

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

Please. You've stretched the limits of hyperbole in your numerous vitriolic posts about Clinton and Obama over the years. You're hardly the one to start lecturing others on overreaction at this point.

I find your selective memory...disturbing.

[Kraken]

The Globe's editorial page today urged independents to take a Republican ballot and vote for Kasich. They had already endorsed Hillary and they consider her inevitable (even though MA is one of the states Sanders hopes to win on Super Tuesday), so they reasoned that voting against Trump is the most effective thing an independent can do.

Their logic is logical if one is willing to concede the nom to Clinton. The Globe happens to be the unofficial mouthpiece of the Dem establishment so their "don't waste your vote on Sanders" stance is predictable.

If the Globe were really that concerned, shouldn't they ask all Hillary voters to stay home so the independents can have the luxury of choosing to vote for Kasich rather than being forced to worry about taking power away from Hillary?

I would sit home at Primary day if I weren't going to vote for Sanders. After him, nothing else matter.

Registered D's can only vote in the D primary and the Globe is bullish on Hillary. They want independents to leave the D primary to the D's and use our freedom of choice to stop Trump instead of worrying our pretty little heads about the D side, where neither option is a disaster. Right now it seems that Trump will win MA, hard as that is for me to fathom.

[Pyperkub]

Hmmm... Trump to be on the stand, under oath, during the election in a civil fraud trial?

Here’s a part of the political calendar that nobody in the Republican Party seems to have noticed: This spring, just as the GOP nomination battle enters its final phase, frontrunner Donald Trump could be forced to take time out for some unwanted personal business: He’s due to take the witness stand in a federal courtroom in San Diego, where he is being accused of running a financial fraud.

[Defiant]

Hmm indeed

[GreenGoo]

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

For me it's not that I think Trump is going to embezzle the country into bankruptcy (well, he might, but that's not what bothers me), it's that he so clearly is a poor choice for a leadership role that it boggles the mind that people would look to him to run the country.

He's really a terrible, terrible, terrible person. He not only doesn't hide it but exalts in it. And people love him for it. The entire thing is insane. People complain about Bernie's lack of foreign policy experience and platform (rightly so) but Trump might be the first president who needs an entire team to explain even the most basic things about the presidency, let alone help him make decisions. How could Trump be anything but a figurehead? I won't say he's the most ignorant person to ever come this close to the white house, but he's certainly in the running.

I can see him sitting down for the first time in the Oval Office, rubbing his hands together and then asking his team of yes men "what is this congress and/or constitution things I keeping hearing about?"

I really dislike the man, but aside from that I haven't seen any qualifications for the job. Heading a multi-million dollar real estate/reality tv empire seems like it limits you to a very narrow set of skills. On that note, I do believe some of that will be useful. Unfortunately that still leaves the last 95% of the job waiting for his handlers to tell him what he should think and do. And if that's the case, Trump doesn't seem like the kind of guy who has an open mind or values opinions that are not his own, so we're kind of left with a figurehead surrounded by yes men at the helm of the most powerful nation in the world.

I'll be honest. I don't like that.

[Rip]

Trump wins Nevada. Might as well start printing the t-shirts!

[Defiant]

Instead of wasting their money here, Rubio and Cruz should have spent it on Hookers and.. Gambling (hey, it is Las Vegas baby)

[Kurth]

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

Trump is awful, but that's not what scares me. It's the reaction of the crazies who would choose him as their presidential nominee when he inevitably loses.

I'm pretty sure there's no way Trump can win. That probably means another Clinton in the Oval Office . . . and this Clinton is a woman, to boot! Anyone think that's gonna help tamp down all the partisan vitriol and obstructionism? Think that's going to tone down the fractured state of our society? Will it help restore a little faith in government and trust in our elected officials?

There's only one group of winners in the scenario that's playing out: Drudge, Limbaugh, Breitbart, FOX news, MSNBC . . . The rest of us, not so much.

Please tell me, Rip, how this ship rights itself. Unless you're serious about the guillotines, in which case, that's kind of a bummer.

[Rip]

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

Trump is awful, but that's not what scares me. It's the reaction of the crazies who would choose him as their presidential nominee when he inevitably loses.

I'm pretty sure there's no way Trump can win. That probably means another Clinton in the Oval Office . . . and this Clinton is a woman, to boot! Anyone think that's gonna help tamp down all the partisan vitriol and obstructionism? Think that's going to tone down the fractured state of our society? Will it help restore a little faith in government and trust in our elected officials?

There's only one group of winners in the scenario that's playing out: Drudge, Limbaugh, Breitbart, FOX news, MSNBC . . . The rest of us, not so much.

Please tell me, Rip, how this ship rights itself. Unless you're serious about the guillotines, in which case, that's kind of a bummer.

It rights itself by changing slowly and only with consensus.

A properly ballasted ship doesn't need any action to right itself.

Things that really need changed will be eventually.

[Alefroth]

Properly ballasted being a key prerequisite.

[tgb]

Mainstream Republicans hate Trump almost as much as Obama. Can we really afford another 4 years (even if he gets elected, he won't get another term once his cult discovers he can't really deliver most of what he promised) of Republican obstructionism?

[raydude]

That's where the parties and donors come in. I like to think that they have some semblance of logic behind the curtain. They may not be able to hand-pick a candidate, but they can certainly get their thumb on the scale.

If only the men behind the curtain would save the American public from themselves!

Trump's rise is a de facto argument for reducing the voice of average citizens in the political system. And that's just....unpleasant. I'm starting to see the appeal of oligarchies. And that makes me uncomfortable.

I find your lack of faith in the system.......disturbing.

Seriously, I find it comical how much you guys think a Trump or Cruz becoming POTUS would be so catastrophic. I mean I hate Hillary but I just think it would make for a shitty near term future. All this talk of being a threat to democracy or our ways of living/governing ourselves is laughable.

For Trump past performance is indeed a predictor of future results. As for his past performance, his

4 bankruptcies, including some leaving the public holding the debt,

proven narcissism, and

history of misogyny should be enough to give anyone pause.

Put your big-boy brain on and ask yourself "What would an egomaniac do if Putin dared him to do something about Crimea?" and "Do you really want a President who would act like Marty McFly and be all huffy if someone calls him 'chicken'?"

As for the misogyny, yeah I suppose since I have a dick I wouldn't give a damn about that either. But I have a wife and two daughters, so yeah I give a fuck about that.

[Rip]

D-J Trump
Hey, yeah (we the best)

All I do is win win win no matter what
Got money on my mind I can never get enough
And every time I step up in the buildin'
Everybody hands go up
And they stay there
And they say yeah
And they stay there
Up down, up down, up down
'Cause all I do is win win win
And if you goin' in put your hands in the air
Make 'em stay there

[YellowKing]

I'm pretty sure there's no way Trump can win.

That's what people were saying months ago, and now he's cruising to the nomination.

I would not underestimate him. This nomination has shown that there is an extremely angry electorate out there right now that are sick of DC - Democrats and Republicans alike. When it comes down to choosing four -if not eight- more years of Clinton, and a total Washington outsider, you could see voters across the political spectrum jump on the Trump train.

Common sense is out the window right now - I haven't seen anything yet that leads me to believe that Trump's antics are going to do him in. If anything, they have just made him more powerful. This is a Sanjay from American Idol moment.

[Rip]

I'm pretty sure there's no way Trump can win.

That's what people were saying months ago, and now he's cruising to the nomination.

I would not underestimate him. This nomination has shown that there is an extremely angry electorate out there right now that are sick of DC - Democrats and Republicans alike. When it comes down to choosing four -if not eight- more years of Clinton, and a total Washington outsider, you could see voters across the political spectrum jump on the Trump train.

Common sense is out the window right now - I haven't seen anything yet that leads me to believe that Trump's antics are going to do him in. If anything, they have just made him more powerful. This is a Sanjay from American Idol moment.

I concur.

[El Guapo]

What I was wondering this morning is, in the increasingly likely event that Trump is the GOP nominee, what do the various prominent anti-Trump conservative media outlets do? Fox would get fully behind Trump, I'm pretty sure. But National Review, having published an entire "Against Trump" edition? I would guess they would publish a "well, he's better than Hillary anyway" op-ed and the staff would divide on the matter.

Of course, I don't know whether any of that matters in terms of actual votes.

[tgb]

As I've been saying for a while now, they dismissed the idea of a Reagan presidency, too.

[El Guapo]

As I've been saying for a while now, they dismissed the idea of a Reagan presidency, too.

He was first the governor of our most populous and economically significant state first, however, so I suspect that the initial skepticism of Reagan's candidacy was more akin to the initial skepticism of Obama's 2008 candidacy.

[Jeff V]

As I've been saying for a while now, they dismissed the idea of a Reagan presidency, too.

This is a lot different. Reagan had a background in politics (he wasn't just a supporting actor to a chimp) and he had some pretty good people around him. His charisma was perhaps the exact opposite of Trump, I can't imagine him ever disparaging one segment of the population just because it makes another segment like him more.

With Trump as president, we will shed long-held allies, possibly end up in more wars, and have to figure out how to become an isolationist country again. Except now it would probably destroy our economy. Reagan was called "The Great Communicator" for a reason, Trump might earn the sobriquet "The Great Demolitionist."

[Zarathud]

Trump is no Reagan. He's a divider, not a uniter.

The media will get much tougher if Trump wins the nomination because the GOP/Trump can't set the rules. Plus, Trump makes Hillary look much better than she is.

[Defiant]

Maybe more like Arnold Schwarzenegger's run for the Governorship. Who might be one of the only people that could beat Trump for the nomination.

Quick, what are the chances we could add a constitutional amendment before the General Election to allow Arnold to run?

[Blackhawk]

Trump wins Nevada. Might as well start printing the t-shirts!

Trump Defeats Truman?

[Defiant]

Some of the highlights from Trump's Victory Speech

It’s hard for me to turn down money because that’s what I’ve done in my whole life, I grab and grab and grab. You know I get greedy I want money, money.
I’ll tell you what we’re going to do, right? We get greedy right? Now we’re going to get greedy for the United States we’re going to grab and grab and grab. We’re going to bring in so much money and so much everything. We’re going to make America great again, folks, I’m telling you folks we’re going to make America great again.

We have a trade deficit with Mexico. They’ll pay for the wall. They’ll be very happy about it. Believe me. I’ll talk to them. They’re going to be very, very thrilled. They’re going to be thrilled to be paying for the wall.

[Jaymann]

You can't deny that Trump has locked up the white bigot/racist trailer trash vote. But that wasn't enough to stop Obama from being elected to two terms. It is possibly enough to carry Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Utah and Nevada.

However, he has alienated:
Women
Hispanics
Muslims
Sane people

A freshman intern on the Clinton staff could put together a 15 second montage of Trump hate speech, then cut to Hillary hugging some rainbow coalition members.

[Trent Steel] No Chance! NO CHANCE! [/Trent Steel]