Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

[Zarathud]

If you’re running a character for a year, that may be worth it. Or if you are doing a convention game that needs a boss battle mini.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Good news then -- the Apex: Theropod reprint just launched. Been looking for this one for a long, long time but the prices for used (or older copies that are somehow unopened) were always insane. No more plastic dinosaur for the first player marker and I'm ok with that.

Thanks for the heads-up. I've had it on my wishlist for quite some time too, so I'm chuffed to avoid the overinflated secondary-market pricing for a complete version with all expansions.

It looks to be a terrific solo game with a tonne of replay value, and the artwork is just outstanding. For anyone unfamiliar with the game, I recommend watching the Gray Board Gamer playthrough and/or the One Stop Co-op Shop playthrough to see how it plays.

[MonkeyFinger]

Hmmm... not heard of Renegade Game Studio's Solo Heroes Series before but found their Warp's Edge entry on Kickstarter this morning. Interest waned a bit when I saw there were people cancelling their pledge over... the shipping cost. From the creator on that cost and buying at retail:

The prices are a quote from Quartermaster Logistics based on the actual dimensions, weight, and materials. This quote is as of last week and based on current 2020 rates. In the case of North America, the shipping is factored for the average continental US only and not Alaska and Hawaii. If you live in these or an outlier region, we pay the extra. This is not a profit center for us. We have lost money on shipping on every Kickstarter we have run. Rates almost always go up by the time we ship and outliers push us into a negative compared to the shipping we collect. We could have hidden the shipping cost in the price of the game, like some others do, but that's not the way we operate.

The expansion, the playmat, and thre plastic tokens will not be available retail, with the exception of any retailers that back at our retailer level on this Kickstarter. We will be offering those items for sale at conventions and on our website, but they will be $20 each. So, as Kickstarter backers, you are getting a much better deal for all of it.

[hepcat]

Yeah, that sounds like they're shooting themselves in the foot. I'll wait for retail.

Established game makers using Kickstarter as a preorder system , while completely legal, still bugs me a bit. And when they end up pushing shipping and other costs beyond normal rates (from what it looks like), that just makes it worse.

[Smoove_B]

This is exactly what DVG does and it's insane - what they're charging for shipping. And I don't understand it at all because you can get the same thing they're KS and shipping to backers for $20 from an online vendor for a lower price and shipped for $5.

I know it's been predicted for a while, but shipping might be what ultimately breaks KS.

In other news, it's been 2+ months and I'm still waiting for an errata pack from Blacklist for Aftershock. Allegedly going to push out an update today regarding status, but clearly someone has really fuct up. I'm sure the holidays didn't help but this is getting ridiculous. I really hope they are offiically ditching Blackbox for future deliveries because they clearly cannot handle the volume.

[Lordnine]

Hmmm... not heard of Renegade Game Studio's Solo Heroes Series before but found their Warp's Edge entry on Kickstarter this morning. Interest waned a bit when I saw there were people cancelling their pledge over... the shipping cost. From the creator on that cost and buying at retail:

So....I just so happen to have a copy of QML 2020 rates. Based on their $16 shipping rate they expect the game to weight 9 pounds. That seems a bit high based on their preview box and components.

[Daehawk]

You guys seen these?

GoDice

GoDice | Incredibly Smart Connected Dice For Any Game!

The data from the GoDice syncs immediately to the app. Make your moves , tap your decisions, and watch the score rise in real time. Papers, score sheets and writing are replaced with a cool digital experience! Complex RPG calculations (multiple dice and battles) are done instantly and automatically - So you can enjoy the fun, luck, and strategic elements of the games.

[TheMix]

I did see those. I was just too lazy to post.

Interesting concept. But pretty pricey.

[coopasonic]

You guys seen these?

GoDice

GoDice | Incredibly Smart Connected Dice For Any Game!

The data from the GoDice syncs immediately to the app. Make your moves , tap your decisions, and watch the score rise in real time. Papers, score sheets and writing are replaced with a cool digital experience! Complex RPG calculations (multiple dice and battles) are done instantly and automatically - So you can enjoy the fun, luck, and strategic elements of the games.

Two things...
1) I can't imagine an actual use case for these. If you want to go digital just go, why bother with the dice.
2) I have three of their prior product, GoCube, and only one of them functions. Searching for the issue turns up endless similar complaints. Apparently their battery management is not good.

[hepcat]

Yeah, not sure that this is actually necessary.

[Daehawk]

To me I dont trust random electronic dice rolling in games. I think it cheats in everything and changes my odds of winning. So these would eliminate that.

[hentzau]

To me I dont trust random electronic dice rolling in games. I think it cheats in everything and changes my odds of winning. So these would eliminate that.

But they admit in their FAQ that they haven't figured out dice balance yet. I think that's the big problem.

[AWS260]

Glorantha: The Gods War reprint.

I've always been interested in this one, but not quite enough to pull the trigger. Nothing in the new Kickstarter has changed my opinion, especially with the late 2021 delivery date.

[Blackhawk]

Part of the appeal of tabletop games, for me, is getting away from everything being electronic. It's nice to actually handle objects. And it isn't that big of a deal to add up 5, 6, 2, and 3.

[Lordnine]

Glorantha: The Gods War reprint.

I've always been interested in this one, but not quite enough to pull the trigger. Nothing in the new Kickstarter has changed my opinion, especially with the late 2021 delivery date.

I would happily play someone else's copy but as someone who owns every Cthulhu Wars faction expansion I cant justify another huge box game unless the game-play is phenomenal. Most reviews put Glorantha as very similar to Cthulhu Wars but with slightly more strategic depth and a whole lot more fiddlyness.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Hmmm... not heard of Renegade Game Studio's Solo Heroes Series before but found their Warp's Edge entry on Kickstarter this morning. Interest waned a bit when I saw there were people cancelling their pledge over... the shipping cost. From the creator on that cost and buying at retail:

So....I just so happen to have a copy of QML 2020 rates. Based on their $16 shipping rate they expect the game to weight 9 pounds. That seems a bit high based on their preview box and components.

Given your aptitude and obvious interest in creating and producing a terrific dinosaur-themed board game, I was just wondering if you plan on backing the Apex Theropod Collected Edition deck-builder Smoove mentioned earlier? Do you have any thoughts on it?

[baelthazar]

Glorantha: The Gods War reprint.

I've always been interested in this one, but not quite enough to pull the trigger. Nothing in the new Kickstarter has changed my opinion, especially with the late 2021 delivery date.

I would happily play someone else's copy but as someone who owns every Cthulhu Wars faction expansion I cant justify another huge box game unless the game-play is phenomenal. Most reviews put Glorantha as very similar to Cthulhu Wars but with slightly more strategic depth and a whole lot more fiddlyness.

Until they actual start fulfilling Planet Apocalypse, I think I would hold off on backing the new Kickstarter.

[Lordnine]

Hmmm... not heard of Renegade Game Studio's Solo Heroes Series before but found their Warp's Edge entry on Kickstarter this morning. Interest waned a bit when I saw there were people cancelling their pledge over... the shipping cost. From the creator on that cost and buying at retail:

So....I just so happen to have a copy of QML 2020 rates. Based on their $16 shipping rate they expect the game to weight 9 pounds. That seems a bit high based on their preview box and components.

Given your aptitude and obvious interest in creating and producing a terrific dinosaur-themed board game, I was just wondering if you plan on backing the Apex Theropod Collected Edition deck-builder Smoove mentioned earlier? Do you have any thoughts on it?

I’ve heard some good things about it but I’m not much of a deck builder type of gamer so there are probably much better people to ask about that one.

[Smoove_B]

Long awaited and hyped beyond comprehension, The Return to Dark Tower is now live. Between this and the new Conan KS, it feels like companies are not messing around with funding goals. $850K or nothing for Dark Tower? $780K in a six day campaign for Conan? KS has definitely turned a corner.

[YellowKing]

I'm torn on Dark Tower. One the one hand it's amazingly cool, on the other hand it's amazingly expensive.

We saw the prototype in action at GenCon last year and even as a 3d-printed, barely working mock-up it was still kind of jaw-dropping. The problem I have is that a cool mechanized tower does not a good game make, so I'm probably going to read through the rule book and watch a few more videos before making any decisions.

If I do pull the trigger, I feel like I have to go for the $225 tier. I'm going to want those minis.

[Smoove_B]

It really seems like it's tugging at nostalgia and let's be brutally honest here - Dark Tower was amazing in 1981 when you were 7. I am not convinced this is a game for 2020 (or 2021). I get that a team of top designers came in to re-tool everything. The original was a dice chucker with a D-Cell batter powered AI driving events. This seems to have pivoted into a tactical melee game run by an app. I also having a very hard time believing there's going to be excellent QA on the actual tower production. Either way, maybe I'm wrong and it'll be fun. I'm just not sure it'll be $225 worth of fun (for me).

[hentzau]

I still have an original if I want to revisit that particular nostalgia. And so far, I haven't.

[hepcat]

Let me know when they bring back Mouse Trap. I want to relive the hours I spent watching that game break my father's will to live as he tried to assemble it over the course of a week back in the 70's.

[Isgrimnur]

Which version do you want?

[hentzau]

Well. Guess I can sell my paints now.

Hero Forge announcing color 3D printed minis.

And if the image on their placeholder page is really what you can get...wow.

Kickstarter is live.

$40 for a full color mini. Previews of the creation tools look fun though.

[hepcat]

Which version do you want?

Wow, that brings back memories.

...soul wrecking memories, but memories all the same.

[Lordnine]

$780K in a six day campaign for Conan? KS has definitely turned a corner.

Monolith revealed their funding goal along with a press release in advance. Basically, $780K is what it costs to make a mini heavy game like Conan and turn a profit. Instead of leading people on with fake stretch goals they just threw everything into the pledge level to begin with. I actually really respect the honesty as most people have known for a long time that campaigns like those run by CMON are largely BS when it comes to stretch goals and only there to drive up hype.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I'd seen that and I get what they're trying. I have no doubts they've crunched the numbers and know if they can't hit $X in 6 days, it's unlikely they will in 15, 21 or 30. Plus, a super short KS campaign likely stops people from dropping after thinking about it for a month or seeing something bigger/newer/better over the course of a 3+ week campaign. It totally makes sense, I am just doubtful it's going to unfold the way they've planned. But if that's what it costs and it can't be delivered for less, then I at least they've set expectations.

[Blackhawk]

$780K in a six day campaign for Conan? KS has definitely turned a corner.

Monolith revealed their funding goal along with a press release in advance. Basically, $780K is what it costs to make a mini heavy game like Conan and turn a profit. Instead of leading people on with fake stretch goals they just threw everything into the pledge level to begin with. I actually really respect the honesty as most people have known for a long time that campaigns like those run by CMON are largely BS when it comes to stretch goals and only there to drive up hype.

They're getting pounded on this one. Their previous backers are pissed, and it's almost got me questioning whether they'll hit their goal. The idea is that this takes their big three games (Conant, Batman, Mythic Battles: Pantheon) and ties them together into a 1v1 competitive mode. They're also adding a few extra coop missions and a solo mode to Conan. The problems:

~Every map is a reprint of an existing map.
~If you have backed the previous content, the majority of the miniatures you'll be paying for are ones you already own.
~There is no universal upgrade kit for people who already own the stuff - you have to buy it all a second time.
~The versus mode that this is built around is an upgrade to the version that's in Season 2 of their Batman game, which hasn't been fulfilled yet (IE - it's an upgrade to a game nobody has)
~There is almost no actual info on how the game actually plays. Versus mode is a game! That uses miniatures! To fight each other! It's a variation of a game that nobody has played! Yay?
~All of the new miniatures seem to be molded in bright, garish plastic, while all the previous stuff was gray and subdued. People think it looks terrible, and hate the idea of mixing it with their existing stuff.

Batman season 2 was not a well-run campaign. This one is just a confusing mess.

[Smoove_B]

Yup. It seems like a bit of a cash grab. I'm wondering if they got the message after the Batman KS that people are really just into the minis. Was there really a huge demand from players to be have Conan and The Joker fight one another? Were people really clamoring for Conan vs Zombicide?

My buddy purchased the original Conan at retail and then cobbled together things via eBay to try and be able to play solo/coop - only to find that unless you have a King's Pledge from the first KS, it's impossible to use the materials they released for solo/coop play. Instead of figuring that out for this new KS, they instead indicated the King's Pledge materials don't exist anymore and won't be reprinted. "Most" have been split up into the various faction boxes you can get with this KS, but not all. So again, you still can't play the original coop/solo stuff unless you were a KS backer of the original game.

In reading through the pledge levels and add on stuff, it seems like they just want to forget about the original game and launch this new cross-play reboot.

[AWS260]

Oath, from the designer and publisher of Root.

In Oath, one to six players guide the course of history in an ancient land. Players might attempt to bolster the power of the Chancellor or scheme to bring the empire to ruin. The consequences of one game will ripple through those that follow, changing what resources and actions future players may have at their disposal and even altering the game's core victory condition.

Every game in Oath affects the games that follow. If one game ends with the fall of an empire, the next game will be played in its still-smoldering ruin. There is no pre-written narrative or pre-determined end point. Oath is not a legacy game. Instead, it is a game about legacy where the choices the players make will determine what happens next.

[Smoove_B]

There's also this concerning post on the Monolith forums from last month. I've run it through the translator:

Yes. But we have already talked about it with all the people who work on each of these projects. The future of Monolith depends on January and all the people who work are aware and have accepted it. Basically it's funny but somehow there will be SG.

<700k: we deliver Batman, we separate and we dissolve the box.

> 700k: I stay and we do BTM

> 1M (post PM): we will do + MBR and Jdr Batman

> 1.5M (Post PM): we will do in + SDA

This seems like a plan fraught with danger. Everything hinges on Conan being funded?

[Blackhawk]

only to find that unless you have a King's Pledge from the first KS, it's impossible to use the materials they released for solo/coop play. Instead of figuring that out for this new KS, they instead indicated the King's Pledge materials don't exist anymore and won't be reprinted.

I've got retail Conan, and it's one of the things that turned me off on Monolith. Everything they've put out, including both retail and almost all online content (and there's a lot), requires the King's Pledge stuff (IE - Kickstarter exclusives), while those who purchased the game at retail get next to nothing as far as aftermarket support. It's like they made the bizarre decision that their customer base going forward would be limited to only those who went all-in on the original Kickstarter.

[Lordnine]

only to find that unless you have a King's Pledge from the first KS, it's impossible to use the materials they released for solo/coop play. Instead of figuring that out for this new KS, they instead indicated the King's Pledge materials don't exist anymore and won't be reprinted.

I've got retail Conan, and it's one of the things that turned me off on Monolith. Everything they've put out, including both retail and almost all online content (and there's a lot), requires the King's Pledge stuff (IE - Kickstarter exclusives), while those who purchased the game at retail get next to nothing as far as aftermarket support. It's like they made the bizarre decision that their customer base going forward would be limited to only those who went all-in on the original Kickstarter.

This is a weird one for me because I really love the Conan system but it is hard to recommend this KS as is. For what it's worth, they are claiming that backers will be able to add-on the core (original) game in the pledge manager for only $30. That plus the new legacy box will (I think) upgrade a person to the Kings pledge from the original minus a few of the pure cosmetic minis.

What I find disappointingly lacking is that they are not reprinting the original campaign book from the first KS. The campaign book was a hard cover limited run item that was in my opinion at-least, the best way to play Conan. It offered a campaign for 5 players and included hero leveling and persistent loot with branching missions. It also featured scenarios that as far as I can tell have never been released in any other format, considering they were all built for 5 players, which there were only two in the original game, that seems like a huge missed opportunity.

[Blackhawk]

Yeah, that'd be a great thing to have, even as a .pdf. The other thing that people have been begging them for was the original expansions, but they're not making those available either (I was really hoping to get the Nordheim expansion, the only one I was missing.

It's probably because, from what I've heard, they ended up losing money on Conan at retail. The box had so much stuff in it that the 'at cost' price to them was more than the retailers were willing to pay, and they already had the retail stock manufactured. That meant selling each copy for a loss.

[hentzau]

HeroForge KS tops 1M in less than a day. People like their minis.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Dunno if anyone else is interested in backing the Apex: Collected Edition dinosaur deck-builder Smoove posted about earlier. But for those interested, there's only a few hours left to snag it at the most affordable early-bird pricing tier for the whole kit and kaboodle. Early-bird pricing ends tonight as of 23:59 CST.

I was also gratified to read in the comments they'll be using premium black core card stock with a linen finish for all the cards, which should make for a decent upgrade over the 1e & 2e versions of the game. Personally, I'm just looking forward to owning a dino-themed game minus the typical cartoonish artwork:

[Smoove_B]

I was actually going to skip backing it (despite really wanting a copy), but as soon as they announced they'd be upgrading the card stock and finish (which I'm pretty sure was a common complaint with the original), I couldn't resist.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I was actually going to skip backing it (despite really wanting a copy), but as soon as they announced they'd be upgrading the card stock and finish (which I'm pretty sure was a common complaint with the original), I couldn't resist.

Indeed, I may well have skipped it myself but for that. Perhaps I'm spoiled, but in 2020 it'd be difficult to justify spending $100+ for a KS card game (if you include the estimated shipping cost) that doesn't include quality cardstock with a decent finish as part of the deal.

[Lordnine]

Personally, I'm just looking forward to owning a dino-themed game minus the typical cartoonish artwork:

Spoiler: