tesla motors

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:36 pm

cheeba wrote:But dealerships are organized and powerful and have political influence

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:41 pm

Vorret wrote:You guys* really lost the meaning of capitalism and free market, quite sad.

* The 3 states that are voting against it

What was that about your liquor stores?

Seriously though, capitalism and free market are mere buzzwords at this point. Neither political side nor organized entity willingly allows others to act against their interests without trying to influence the results.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:03 pm

I don't know about other states, but here Teslas get special EV plates. They're pretty well embraced. I also see a ton on the road now. Pretty sure the genie isn't going back into the bottle here at least.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:28 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:I don't know about other states, but here Teslas [are] pretty well embraced. I also see a ton on the road now. Pretty sure the genie isn't going back into the bottle here at least.

Same here. This sucks for Tesla's retail stores in Jersey, and sucks for prospective customers, but it's not as big a deal as some articles make it out to be. You can still buy a Tesla in New Jersey--just not at a Tesla store. You would buy it online, pick it up either at a Tesla location in a neighboring state or via truck delivery, and then register it yourself with the state. I've seen articles saying you'd have to pay the higher NY sales tax, you can't buy at all, etc. All hogwash.

That said, it's a worrying trend that we're up to 3 states that have these silly bans. I (sort of) get states protecting dealers from their existing franchisors selling direct and eliminating their dealer networks. But Tesla has exactly zero franchisees nationwide. It's simple self-preservation by the dealer associations--they see the future, and know that they do not play as significant a role (or perhaps even exist at all).

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:46 pm

But they protect us!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:47 pm

McNutt wrote:But they protect us!

Think of the children!

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:51 pm

McNutt wrote:But they protect us!

They protect us from buying a car without feeling like we were probed in our private areas?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:06 pm

Bloomberg had a 'debate' between a NJ dealer dude and a UMich law professor. It played out exactly as expected.

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:17 pm

Paul Graham wrote:Banning Tesla is an index of the corruptness of state governments as banning Uber is of city governments.

Amen.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:24 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Bloomberg had a 'debate' between a NJ dealer dude and a UMich law professor. It played out exactly as expected.

The end really baffles me, in NJ Tesla is considered a Monopoly since they're the only one selling Tesla.....

ibdoomed · Post by **ibdoomed** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:33 pm

Vorret wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Bloomberg had a 'debate' between a NJ dealer dude and a UMich law professor. It played out exactly as expected.
The end really baffles me, in NJ Tesla is considered a Monopoly since they're the only one selling Tesla.....

And yet comcast isn't even though they are the only ones selling comcast... sigh.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:33 pm

Fretmute wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:Banning Tesla is an index of the corruptness of state governments as banning Uber is of city governments.
Amen.

It'll roll out as people on the wrong side of history, like a lot of things that have changed in the last century or two. Just because something is "how it always has been" doesn't make it right or worth protecting.

I'd personally love to own a Tesla.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:40 pm

I was at a party last weekend and saw one of the guests getting into his Tesla. He showed me the car and he was obviously in love with it. I watched as he drove away, the only sound being the rubber contacting the road, along with my drool.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:45 pm

McNutt wrote:I was at a party last weekend and saw one of the guests getting into his Tesla. He showed me the car and he was obviously in love with it. I watched as he drove away, the only sound being the rubber contacting the road, along with my drool.

If you have a Tesla store near you, go for a test drive. Unlike a dealer (natch), they are perfectly happy to take you out for a drive even if you won't be able or willing to afford this model. They're in it for the long game. This is a pretty accurate visualization of the experience.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:45 pm

I'm not sure I'd love to own one at this point but I'd sure love play with somebody else's and give it back when I'm done.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:55 pm

One thing I had heard about Tesla that I hope remains true - they don't want to treat their service center as a profit center. I've always hated being forced to take a car to a dealership for any kind of service for this very reason.

When I can buy a part for $186 online or get the dealership to sell me their version with their sticker for $600 - there's some kind of disconnect going on there. This was a true example, a catalytic converter for a Nissan I had a number of years ago.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:58 pm

Indeed Musk has said that he wants the service centers to operate at or close to break-even. I buy it, as it's in Tesla's interest as the new kid on the block to have either great reliability (unlikely with a new brand) or happy customers through great and not-too-pricey service. Time will tell...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:56 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Indeed Musk has said that he wants the service centers to operate at or close to break-even. I buy it, as it's in Tesla's interest as the new kid on the block to have either great reliability (unlikely with a new brand) or happy customers through great and not-too-pricey service. Time will tell...

Early on this is key to getting up and running.

Eventually though, investors aren't going to settle for a 43x price to book, 61x forward PE, and all the other eye-popping metrics.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:01 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:Eventually though, investors aren't going to settle for a 43x price to book, 61x forward PE, and all the other eye-popping metrics.

True, but there's also nothing that says their profits have to come specifically from service.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:04 pm

The usual Jersey - nah - the usual everywhere corruption. It is a damn shame that everything is so tied up in money politics. All this did was remove jobs from New Jersey - so thanks for that as usual asshats.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:07 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:Eventually though, investors aren't going to settle for a 43x price to book, 61x forward PE, and all the other eye-popping metrics.
True, but there's also nothing that says their profits have to come specifically from service.

Of course, and business models change all the time. I'm just saying it's a potential revenue and margin source and people are paying a premium for TSLA expecting extreme revenue and margin growth.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:10 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:Eventually though, investors aren't going to settle for a 43x price to book, 61x forward PE, and all the other eye-popping metrics.
True, but there's also nothing that says their profits have to come specifically from service.
Of course, and business models change all the time. I'm just saying it's a potential revenue and margin source and people are paying a premium for TSLA expecting extreme revenue and margin growth.

Absolutely. The nice thing about Tesla is they have such a small market share right now that they can grow at a rather crazy rate for many years before really hitting up against any sort of wall (so long as their model costs come down at the rate they expect them to).

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue May 13, 2014 1:56 pm

What it's like to own a Tesla Model S: A cartoonist's review of his magical space car

Pretty accurate based on my test drives.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:04 pm

I was just coming here to post that just for you.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:05 pm

LordMortis wrote:I was just coming here to post that just for you.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:23 pm

Yes, it is awesome, now make one I can afford!

There is a guy in my office with a P85. I walk past his car every day. I want it.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:27 pm

I want one, but I am too poor to has one.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:27 pm

2017 can't get here soon enough.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:50 pm

I got to play around with a Model S at a Tesla store in a mall of all places. While it seemed super nifty overall, I found the gigantic center console touchscreen to be a big turnoff. Very futuristic and fancypants and all that, but physical controls are so much easier to use while distracted by, you know, driving. My current car's center console has both physical controls and a touchscreen for different commands, and I find I pretty much only utilize the touchscreen commands if I really really have to.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:52 pm

wonderpug wrote:I got to play around with a Model S at a Tesla store in a mall of all places. While it seemed super nifty overall, I found the gigantic center console touchscreen to be a big turnoff. Very futuristic and fancypants and all that, but physical controls are so much easier to use while distracted by, you know, driving. My current car's center console has both physical controls and a touchscreen for different commands, and I find I pretty much only utilize the touchscreen commands if I really really have to.

Most of the controls are also accessible via the steering wheel + the two small configurable displays to either side of the speedometer.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:55 pm

Oh yeah? That's definitely a big help. Do you have any impression of how easy it is to see the center touchscreen if it's in direct sunlight?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:56 pm

wonderpug wrote:Oh yeah? That's definitely a big help. Do you have any impression of how easy it is to see the center touchscreen if it's in direct sunlight?

I didn't have any trouble while test driving, but I can't say that I stopped at noon with the sunroof open or anything. It's a lot easier to see than the screen in my Prius V, though.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:01 pm

Hey Zax,

DIY tesla

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our ... belong-you

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:02 pm

Just saw that. Interesting. On a philosophical level I like it, but I wonder what would happen if a big manufacturer actually took them up on it...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:11 pm

I don't think it's so much altruism as it is a business strategy.

I have a weekly conference call with some friends who are traders, chartists, etc. We bounce market ideas and news off each other looking for ideas, support, and advice. It's really informal, just a bunch of guys on a google hangout drinking beer and talking markets.

Anway, one of my friends has been saying that TSLA isn't a car company, it's a battery/EV tech company. I have always rebutted saying that his premise might be the case in 10-15 years but TSLA needs to sell their cars to get big enough to make the batter/tech part viable. Well, this post by Musk actually bolsters his case a lot. They seem less interested in competing on the car front (except maybe as a high-end luxury producer) than creating a market for all things EV.

It's still good news for consumers looking for greater EV support and adoption. But don't mistake it for pure open source free love.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:14 pm

If you want a whole lot more ammo for the Tesla-as-energy storage-company idea, see JB Straubel's recent keynote at the Energy Storage Symposium last month.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:10 am

LordMortis wrote:Hey Zax,

DIY tesla

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our ... belong-you

Just saw that this morning. The guy talks a good game, and his ideas about innovation and competition are completely inline with my own. I hope it works out for him.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:41 am

GreenGoo wrote:
LordMortis wrote:Hey Zax,

DIY tesla

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our ... belong-you
Just saw that this morning. The guy talks a good game, and his ideas about innovation and competition are completely inline with my own. I hope it works out for him.

Its a great gesture, indeed and hopefully this spurs others to get into the market, because until someone can produce a solid performing and affordable electric vehicle they will only sell to the wealthy and remain a niche product. Its definitely a step in the right direction.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:50 am

For those curious for more details, here is the investor Q&A from yesterday.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:51 pm

rshetts2 wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
LordMortis wrote:Hey Zax,

DIY tesla

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our ... belong-you
Just saw that this morning. The guy talks a good game, and his ideas about innovation and competition are completely inline with my own. I hope it works out for him.
Its a great gesture, indeed and hopefully this spurs others to get into the market, because until someone can produce a solid performing and affordable electric vehicle they will only sell to the wealthy and remain a niche product. Its definitely a step in the right direction.

There's more to it than just that. It takes me 5 minutes to fill my tank with gas, making long trips practical. Hours to charge batteries makes long trips impractical. Car manufacturers have long co-lobbied with oil companies; this bond will need to be broken if the major automakers are expected to seriously pursue EV technology. Magic 8 Ball says cash still gushing from the oil industry will ensure a continued strong marriage with current automakers. Maybe this opens the door for more Tesla-type companies to come into being; but even among luxury cars, Tesla has a very tiny market share.