Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Election)

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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Rip wrote:
Max Peck wrote:This should set Rip off...

Canada to withdraw fighter jets from Syria and Iraq strikes
Canadian Prime Minister-designate Justin Trudeau has confirmed he will withdraw Canadian fighter jets from the air strikes against Islamic State (IS) in Iraq and Syria. He informed US President Barack Obama of his decision hours after leading his Liberal party to victory in the polls. As part of his election campaign, Mr Trudeau pledged to bring home the CF-18 fighter jets that were deployed to the region until March 2016. He has not yet given a timescale.

Justin Trudeau's Liberals swept to power in Monday election, ending nearly a decade of Conservative rule under Stephen Harper. Mr Trudeau, an ex-high-school teacher, is the eldest son of late Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau.

In his first telephone conversation with the US president as Canada's prime minister-designate, Mr Trudeau informed Barack Obama that he would make good on his election promise to withdraw the fighter jets. "I committed that we would continue to engage in a responsible way that understands how important Canada has a role to play in the fight against ISIL (Islamic State), but he (Barack Obama) understands the commitments I've made around ending the combat mission," he told reporters in Ottawa on Tuesday. However, he said he would keep Canadian military trainers in northern Iraq, the AFP news agency reports. Mr Trudeau has also vowed to take in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year - a move previously rejected by his predecessor Stephen Harper, who took a much harder line on the issue. He also quipped that President Obama had "teased me about my lack of grey hair, but said I'd probably get some quite soon".
Why would I care, the entire Canadian air force couldn't get as much work done as a single Russian fighter anyway?
Here you go.
Canada's opposition Liberal Party would end the country's participation in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter programme if it gains control of the government, party leader Justin Trudeau said on 20 September.

"A Liberal government will ... do what the [current Conservative government] ought to have said years ago: 'We will not buy the F-35 fighter jet'," he stated.

Instead of purchasing F-35s, Trudeau said he would launch an "open and transparent competition" for a more affordable replacement for Canada's Boeing (McDonnell Douglas) CF-18 Hornet combat aircraft.
So far as I know, Harper never did make any actual commitments to acquiring the F35, he just used it as a talking point. For all his jingoistic rhetoric, Harper was not fond of actually spending money on the Canadian Forces, even while committing them to combat missions.

The Liberals literally need to do nothing to keep this promise. It's a freebie.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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GreenGoo wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: Here you go.
Canada's opposition Liberal Party would end the country's participation in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter programme if it gains control of the government, party leader Justin Trudeau said on 20 September.

"A Liberal government will ... do what the [current Conservative government] ought to have said years ago: 'We will not buy the F-35 fighter jet'," he stated.

Instead of purchasing F-35s, Trudeau said he would launch an "open and transparent competition" for a more affordable replacement for Canada's Boeing (McDonnell Douglas) CF-18 Hornet combat aircraft.
yeah, well, we'll see.
Laird thunderin' Christ, don't be such a Debbie Downer! At least wait for them to break a promise before acting like they've betrayed your nonexistent trust.

In the mean time, just think how great it'll be when you can send your kid down to the corner store to pick up some pot while you swing by the neighborhood brothel for a quickie before dinner. It'll be glorious, glorious I say! :)
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by LawBeefaroni »

GreenGoo wrote:Lol.

Are you sure you're not Canadian?
Image

I grew up watching CBC Windsor 9. Instead of Saturday morning cartoons I watched curling. Instead of The Facts of Life I watched The Beachcombers.

If I ever move out of the US, Canada is the only country on my list of acceptable locations that doesn't begin with the letter "I" and end in "land."
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by GreenGoo »

Max Peck wrote:]
So far as I know, Harper never did make any actual commitments to acquiring the F35, he just used it as a talking point. For all his jingoistic rhetoric, Harper was not fond of actually spending money on the Canadian Forces, even while committing them to combat missions.

The Liberals literally need to do nothing to keep this promise. It's a freebie.
Had lunch with a former co-worker and these were his thoughts as well. I believed differently, but admit I don't recall the specifics. I do know Harper was making a lot of noise about how much it would cost in legal fees and blah blah blah if the Liberals simply pulled out of the deal (if there even was one).

If there's no deal, there's no deal. if it's only a good intentions sorta deal, ok. If it's something that's going to cost money (less than buying a bunch of shitty over priced planes though) then we'll see if he follows through on his promise. It's easy to spend the money and blame the previous administration for "committing" to the deal. It's harder to pull out of a deal and spend your administration's money on cancelling it.

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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by GreenGoo »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:Lol.

Are you sure you're not Canadian?
Image

I grew up watching CBC Windsor 9. Instead of Saturday morning cartoons I watched curling. Instead of The Facts of Life I watched The Beachcombers.

If I ever move out of the US, Canada is the only country on my list of acceptable locations that doesn't begin with the letter "I" and end in "land."
Ah, good ol' Relic.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

GreenGoo wrote:
Max Peck wrote:]
So far as I know, Harper never did make any actual commitments to acquiring the F35, he just used it as a talking point. For all his jingoistic rhetoric, Harper was not fond of actually spending money on the Canadian Forces, even while committing them to combat missions.

The Liberals literally need to do nothing to keep this promise. It's a freebie.
Had lunch with a former co-worker and these were his thoughts as well. I believed differently, but admit I don't recall the specifics. I do know Harper was making a lot of noise about how much it would cost in legal fees and blah blah blah if the Liberals simply pulled out of the deal (if there even was one).

If there's no deal, there's no deal. if it's only a good intentions sorta deal, ok. If it's something that's going to cost money (less than buying a bunch of shitty over priced planes though) then we'll see if he follows through on his promise. It's easy to spend the money and blame the previous administration for "committing" to the deal. It's harder to pull out of a deal and spend your administration's money on cancelling it.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
This is nothing like Chrétien cancelling the helicopter purchase when he was first elected in 1993. Back then, he cancelled a contract and there were financial penalties to the tune of about CAD$160M (not to mention our crews are still flying the same old rustbuckets that should have been replaced). In this case, Harper was claiming that there would be catastrophic damage to the Canadian aerospace industry because Canadian companies would lose out on contracts related to development and manufacturing of the F35.

Here's a month-old CBC article on the issue, with details on what was being said by Harper (F35! Huah!), Mulcair (Maybe F35? Maybe not?) and Trudeau (Fuck the F35, we can do better, cheaper.)

Liberals 'living in a dream world' on F-35 cancellation, Stephen Harper says
The stalled program to replace Canada's aging fleet of fighter jets has come to life on the campaign trail, with Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau promising to scrap the F-35 plan, and his opponents accusing him of pre-empting the procurement process and threatening the country's aerospace industry.

Sparring erupted on the weekend when Trudeau promised to exclude the F-35 from the bidding process. Instead, he said, a Liberal government would opt for a cheaper alternative that would free up more funds for navy ships.

Today, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper said the Trudeau plan would "crater" Canada's aerospace industry, while Trudeau hit back, saying Harper's "dream" aircraft would be a "nightmare" for the Canadian taxpayer.

During a campaign event in St. Jacobs, Ont., Harper called it "incomprehensible" that Trudeau would move to harm an industry that is vital to Canada's economy.

"The Liberal Party is living in a dream world if they think we can pull out of the development project of the F-35 and not lose business," Harper said. "I don't know what planet they're living on.

"Whether it's his statements on the aerospace industry, his statements on the deficit, you name it. It shows his disconnect and a profound lack of understanding about the Canadian economy."

The Conservatives announced an agreement in principle in 2010 to buy 65 Lockheed Martin F-35s, a single-engine "stealth" fighter. But the purchase plan was put on hold two years later amid growing controversies around costs and other problems. An auditor general's report accused the government of fudging cost projections without sufficient research.

Canada has invested hundreds of millions of dollars on the development of the F-35, money that has allowed Canadian companies to participate in contracts related to the program. That participation did not oblige Canada to actually buy any of the planes.

As of summer 2014, 33 Canadian companies had contracts worth $637 million U.S.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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Because surely signing a contract with another (or the same) mfg wouldn't result in any replacement work for the Canadian defense contractors.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by LawBeefaroni »

According to the article, the contracts aren't even contingent on Canada buying planes. Canada invested the money, they were allowed the contracts. The only cost to Canada would be if their bowing out sinks the entire F35 project. I doubt it will so they'll still get made and the Canadian companies can keep making components.

Well, they may wind up making 65-planes worth fewer components so there's that I suppose.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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LawBeefaroni wrote:According to the article, the contracts aren't even contingent on Canada buying planes. Canada invested the money, they were allowed the contracts. The only cost to Canada would be if their bowing out sinks the entire F35 project. I doubt it will so they'll still get made and the Canadian companies can keep making components.

Well, they may wind up making 65-planes worth fewer components so there's that I suppose.
Yeah, that is pretty much the point I was trying to make. There's no actual expense involved in walking away from the F35 procurement. There may well be a loss of future contracts to Canadian companies, but that's about it. Since the Liberals still want to procure new fighters, there will be contracts involved that will bring work to Canadian companies. I have a hard time seeing how it is going to destroy the aerospace sector.

It's almost like Harper was making up shit to frighten voters into letting him keep his job. But that can't be true, because that would be dishonest and the Harper government was all about honesty, trustworthiness and responsible transparent government. I know that is true because Stephen Harper told us it was so.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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Max Peck wrote: It's almost like Harper was making up shit to frighten voters into letting him keep his job. But that can't be true, because that would be dishonest and the Harper government was all about honesty, trustworthiness and responsible transparent government. I know that is true because Stephen Harper told us it was so.
Well to be fair, I thought that was the case before Harper opened his mouth, he just reinforced my own misunderstandings. And I wouldn't dismiss the idea that canadian companies wouldn't be allowed to bid on aerospace contracts as nothing, although I understand that in the context we're speaking of, it's a separate cost, and not one directly on the government.

Since Lawbeef suggests that canadian companies are allowed to bid whether we buy the planes or not, it becomes a much easier pill to swallow (buying something else).
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

GreenGoo wrote:
Max Peck wrote: It's almost like Harper was making up shit to frighten voters into letting him keep his job. But that can't be true, because that would be dishonest and the Harper government was all about honesty, trustworthiness and responsible transparent government. I know that is true because Stephen Harper told us it was so.
Well to be fair, I thought that was the case before Harper opened his mouth, he just reinforced my own misunderstandings. And I wouldn't dismiss the idea that canadian companies wouldn't be allowed to bid on aerospace contracts as nothing, although I understand that in the context we're speaking of, it's a separate cost, and not one directly on the government.

Since Lawbeef suggests that canadian companies are allowed to bid whether we buy the planes or not, it becomes a much easier pill to swallow (buying something else).
I have no doubt that if the Canadian government disengages from the F35 project then Canadian companies will be shut out from future contracts for F35 development/production. It's quite a stretch, though, for him to imply that they will be subject to punitive policies excluding them from bidding on other unrelated contracts going forward. If Canadian companies are competitive, they'll get work. If they're not, how much of our pay cheques should be diverted to prop them up? At any rate, if we end up buying Boeing's Super Hornet, for example, I'm sure there will some contracts for Canadian companies as part of the deal.

Based on what you've previously posted about the F35, you should be happy about this. Trudeau is of the same mind as you in thinking that the F35 is an overpriced, underperforming one-size-fits-all boondoggle, and he has committed himself to finding an alternative based on actual requirements (as opposed to Harper's approach, brilliantly characterized by Mulcair as "decision-based fact making"). Face it, you're getting exactly what you wanted whether you like it or not. :)
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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Of course I'm happy at the prospect of getting out of any deal (or non-deal) that ends with us buying the F-35 at their projected cost. I've mostly talked about performance, but it's the insanely inflated cost of these planes combined with their performance that I really have a problem with.

So yes, I'm concerned about what it will cost to not buy any of these planes. Since you guys are telling me it's zero direct cost, then fine. And Lawbeef says we're not locked out of future contracts if we do bail, even better.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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I would agree to up the budget on military for a few years in order to upgrade our old shit to 2015 standard.
Maybe at the same time reduce the army size by, I dunno, half? Do we really need that big of a military, who's going to invade Canada?

Our Spec op is already one of the best in the world, focus on that and create a small but heavily specialized military with modern equipment.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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Vorret wrote:I would agree to up the budget on military for a few years in order to upgrade our old shit to 2015 standard.
Maybe at the same time reduce the army size by, I dunno, half? Do we really need that big of a military, who's going to invade Canada?

Our Spec op is already one of the best in the world, focus on that and create a small but heavily specialized military with modern equipment.
Well, before Harper we did a lot more peace keeping. I'm not sure what is the appropriate size military for Canada. We already maintain one of the smallest armed forces of our closest allies. It's disproportionately small when compared to, say, the UK.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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We're more concerned about the defense of your airspace than boots on your ground. We don't want bombers and missiles using you for flyovers.

They may have stymied Napoleon and Hitler when they invaded, but I doubt even the Russians could send a viable land force over the pole.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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Vorret wrote:I would agree to up the budget on military for a few years in order to upgrade our old shit to 2015 standard.
Maybe at the same time reduce the army size by, I dunno, half? Do we really need that big of a military, who's going to invade Canada?
Yes, no one at all. Great idea - you can definitely use that money on other useful things.

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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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The goal should be a defense budget that lives up to our NATO commitments, 2% of GDP IIRC, and is spent addressing actual requirements instead of predetermined political goals. One of many things that infuriated me about Harper was how he repeatedly committed the Canadian Forces to combat missions as a bartering chip with NATO to avoid increasing defense spending, continually wearing down our materiel resources specifically to avoid rebuilding our materiel resources. That's what we get for putting a bookkeeper in charge, I guess.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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Heh yeah, the fact that it was cancelled was a big contraversy. And you want to bring it back? How Canadian of you! ;)
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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A surprisingly touching piece by Neil Mcdonald. (I always see him as a gritty old-school newspaperman -- who even suspected he has a heart?)

Let's give Margaret Trudeau the respect she deserves
The return to 24 Sussex Dr. can't be easy on a family whose early years were torn apart there
Enlarge Image

The most arresting image of the election was made in its final moments, as the prime minister-designate made his way to the podium. He stopped to embrace a beautiful older woman. In the shot, Margaret Trudeau cradles her son's cheeks and gazes into his eyes. After all these years, she still opens her face in public, cameras be damned. And while it may just have been a quirk of lighting, there seemed to be more in that photo than a mother's love and pride. Apprehension, perhaps. Her eldest son is, after all, heading back to 24 Sussex, the place she still calls "the crown jewel of the federal penitentiary system." It is the place where, in Justin Trudeau's own words, his family was torn apart.

Margaret Trudeau is now several times a grandmother; a retiring figure not terribly well known anymore to most Canadians. There was a time, though, when she was one of the most famous women alive. Not just national fame, but consuming, global, Angelina Jolie fame. Few Canadians had ever attained that sort of recognition. And in those more provincial days, Canadians seemed to resent it. We made her pay for it, too, I am ashamed to say.
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Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Election)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Before this thread, the only Trudeau I knew of was Garry.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

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Stephen Harper's legacy -- it ain't over 'til it's over.

Will Justin Trudeau keep fighting Stephen Harper's court battles?
Bahareh Esfand couldn't vote for Justin Trudeau, but she sees the prime minister-designate's victory reflected in her own Federal Court battle. For the past year, the Coquitlam, B.C., woman has locked horns with a Conservative government bent on winning the right to remove her permanent resident status. It's a complicated story: Esfand came to Canada from Iran in 2006 with her political refugee husband, but the minister of citizenship and immigration wants to strip her of refugee status for returning to see her ailing mother.

Regardless, the battle is almost pointless, because even if the government won, it's unlikely they could deport a hard-working, non-criminal mother of a Canadian-born child and wife of a newly minted Canadian citizen. As if to put a fine point on all of that, Federal Court Judge George Locke sided with Esfand this week in a scathing decision that suggests the outgoing government was "more concerned with removing refugee status than granting it."

Esfand claims Stephen Harper's government threw her life off balance in a bid to score an ideological point. In that, she wouldn't be alone. Canada's courts are packed with claimants alleging their rights were violated by an agenda that purported to be tough on bogus refugees and tough on crime. But her case also raises a question. What next? Even before Locke handed down his decision on Esfand, Ottawa announced plans to appeal if they lost.

But will Trudeau want to continue fighting Harper's battles? "They've got a lot of decisions to make," said Josh Paterson, executive director of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association. "They're going to have to take a good, hard look at the whole suite of laws that have been passed by the current government and the legal challenges that are out there and figure out what to do."

Broadly speaking, the cases in front of appeal or Federal Court judges involve either broad Charter of Rights challenges to legislation or specific cases where the application of policy allegedly undermines the intent of a law. Issues range from mandatory minimum sentences, victim surcharges, the Fair Elections Act, refugee health care and Bill C-51 to the controversial niqab issue — just for a start.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

This part of the Harper legacy seems to be in doubt, even before the turn-over is officially complete. It's funny how we've been told all along that the switch from door-to-door mail delivery to community mailboxes was driven by Canada Post rather than the federal government, but as soon as they were no longer beholden to Harper they suspended the program.

Canada Post halts controversial community mailbox program
Canada Post is suspending the conversion of door-to-door delivery to community mailboxes.

In a news release issued late Monday, Canada Post spokeswoman Anick Losier said the corporation will work "collaboratively" with the government of Canada to determine the best path forward given the challenges in the postal system.

"Efforts are now underway to place the comprehensive program on hold in an orderly fashion," Losier said in the release. "This involves roughly 460,000 addresses across the country which are currently in the process to be converted to community mailboxes."

Outgoing Transport Minister Lisa Raitt, whose portfolio includes Canada Post, said the corporation makes decisions independent of government.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Vorret »

I don't see the big deal... back when I owned my house I had to use a community mailbox that was 1 minute by foot from my house.

There were at least 4 maybe 5 in my little neighbourhood, Canada Post isn't making any money so they need to cut cost and this is one of the best way to do it.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

Vorret wrote:I don't see the big deal... back when I owned my house I had to use a community mailbox that was 1 minute by foot from my house.

There were at least 4 maybe 5 in my little neighbourhood, Canada Post isn't making any money so they need to cut cost and this is one of the best way to do it.
It seems to be a big deal to almost everyone who is losing the service. It also isn't true to say that Canada Post isn't making any money, since they turned a pre-tax profit of $24M in the first quarter of this year, for example. It should also be remembered that Canada Post doesn't exist to make money, it exists to provide mail service to all Canadians and needs to pay its own way. Overall, it only needs to break even, not turn a profit.

However, my point has nothing to do with whether or not community mailboxes are a good thing. I just find it interesting that all along, the party line (see what I did there?) from both the Conservative government and Canada Post management has been that cessation of door-to-door delivery had been a Canada Post decision with no input from the government. Now, with a change in government, Canada Post seems willing to consider alternatives before the new government is even sworn in.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by GreenGoo »

Vorret wrote:I don't see the big deal... back when I owned my house I had to use a community mailbox that was 1 minute by foot from my house.
If door to door delivery is no longer affordable, ok. But it currently takes me less than 5 seconds to check my mail. Changing that to two minutes is a pretty big difference.

Also, weather.

This is not a big deal for me. I like home delivery because it's all I've ever known. It's convenient and easy and expected. If it can no longer afford to exist, that's life. But leaving my house (hell, even having to put pants on) is not even in the same realm as convenient as home delivery.

It doesn't help that my new mail box is not on my street, nor on any street that connects to my street. It's about 3 (edit: actually about 4) blocks away and around a couple of corners. For new communities with readily defined entrances that can serve as a focal point for the community, that's one thing. But for me who takes the bus, checking the mail is a trip in the same way that getting milk is a trip. Before it was something I did absentmindedly while texting or making breakfast. Now, it's a thing. It's something that is part of my daily agenda and I have to plan for it and allot time for it.

That's a pretty big change. Throw in Canadian winters and suddenly it's potentially a dangerous task. Unplowed sidewalks, icy roads, cold and wind and precipitation. I can't imagine how shitty this is for seniors with health problems.

And to reiterate, it's not a huge deal for me. I haven't given it much thought and it's just one of those inevitable changes that kinda suck but whatever. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck though. Because it does.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

You know who really doesn't like community mailboxes? People who get to donate a chunk of their yard to make room for them. OTOH, thieves and vandals love them.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Moat_Man »

Justin Trudeau's family dresses up for Halloween

I'm a bit dubious about how Trudeau and the Liberals are going to do but still being able to go out trick or treating with his kids is pretty cool. I'm glad our country isn't wound up so tight that politicians (and our PM) can't have a bit of normality in their lives. Frankly it should keep them closer to "the people".
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Max Peck
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

Plus they pull off a pretty decent Han and Leia, considering the costumes are mostly just winter wear. :)
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

This is an issue that I'm happy to see is being discussed. Aside from the problem of senior bureaucrats who are partisan political appointees, it has been grating over the last few years to see the federal government bureaucracy being used to generate propoganda for the governing party (e.g. using "Harper Government" in place of "Government of Canada" branding). In many cases, the Conservatives were spending our tax dollars for what amounted to partisan political advertising instead of actually implementing policy.

Top bureaucrats met to resist partisanship imposed on public service
Deputy ministers gathered in May to discuss 'creeping politicization' of federal public service

As a new Liberal government takes the reins this week, Canada's top bureaucrats are looking for ways to purge partisan politics from the shell-shocked public service.

The highest echelon of the bureaucracy met in the spring, before the election was called, to discuss ways to insulate public servants from intense pressure to be "promiscuously partisan" instead of neutral in carrying out the government's agenda.

The May 13 meeting of deputy ministers was asked by Canada's top civil servant to consider how Canada's Westminster parliamentary system needs to be "re-set and if medium-term planning could provide the opportunity."

The group was provided with one paper for backgrounding — dating from 2010, by the late scholar Peter Aucoin — describing how partisanship has damaged Westminster systems in Canada, Britain and Australia.

The new reality "is characterized by integration of governance and campaigning, partisan-political staff as a third force in public administration, politicization of appointments to the senior public service, and expectation that public servants should be promiscuously partisan," says a summary provided for the meeting by the Privy Council Office, the central organ of government.

The group was urged to consider how the damaged system could be fixed "during periods of transition and government formation."
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
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Max Peck
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

Updated information on voter turnout and vote share. tldr: Liberal vote share increased across the board, everyone else pretty much went down (sometimes in interesting ways).

Federal election voter turnout reached 69 per cent, highest in 22 years: updated vote count
Turnout and vote share
These are some other quirky and possibly significant observations on the voting results:
  • The Conservatives' share of the vote was up only in Quebec, and by just two-tenths of a point.
  • Only in P.E.I, Nunavut and Yukon did the NDP vote share increase.
  • The Conservatives had more votes than the NDP in the three Maritime provinces, while the NDP came second in N.L.
  • In Ontario, the Liberal Party received 1.5 million more votes compared to the 2011 election, while the other parties combined lost about half a million votes, suggesting the Liberals received the bulk of their increased support from new voters. University of Toronto political scientist Nelson Wiseman says the Conservative dominance in 2011 was the exception, and that this time the province reverted to the norm of the last half-century or so.
  • The popular vote in Manitoba looks pretty similar to the vote in Ontario and not at all like the results to the west in Saskatchewan and Alberta. Wiseman calls the province "the Ontario of the Prairies," adding that Liberal vote gains were greater in Winnipeg than the rest of the province.
  • The NDP share of the popular vote in Saskatchewan went down seven points, but at the same time it went from zero to three of Saskatchewan's 14 seats. Two of those seat gains were thanks to redistribution, which, Wiseman says, lessened the number of mixed urban-rural ridings, a change the Conservatives unsuccessfully opposed.
  • The big increase in turnout in Alberta, a reflection perhaps of both in-migration and voter interest, also saw the Conservative vote total rise by about 220,000 even as its vote share fell seven points.
  • While the NDP had about the same share of the vote in B.C. as it did in Saskatchewan, the New Democrats won one-third of B.C.'s seats.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by deucalion »

Wow CBC must be getting a budget increase with the new government or something - since the election it has been a hugely biased media honeymoon for Justin Trudeau. Pretty much like if Fox News had their perfect candidate win the election in the US and were embedded in the campaign and instrumental in the results.

I guess it is just the way it goes these days but just seems odd that a supposed government run media corporation would be so obvious in its hate of a previous Prime Minister (Harper) and its love of Trudeau.

Not really worried about it all because I think that the Liberals will err on the side of the economy (endorse the TPP etc) but you never know...
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

Well, that's what Harper gets for putting his pet journos in the Senate, I guess. Not that that worked out all that well for him in itself. ;)
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by deucalion »

Max Peck wrote:Well, that's what Harper gets for putting his pet journos in the Senate, I guess. Not that that worked out all that well for him in itself. ;)
Too true. I agree with you there. Hoist on his on petard so to speak.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Moliere »

Former Toronto Mayor Rob Ford Is in Palliative Care
Ford was initially diagnosed with pleomorphic liposarcoma—a rare type of cancer that grows in soft connective tissues—in September 2014, forcing him to drop out of the Toronto mayoral race. He is currently a councillor for Ward 2, Etobicoke.

He underwent surgery last May, but in the fall, he revealed doctors had found tumors on his bladder.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Max Peck »

Rob Ford, former Toronto mayor, dead at 46
Rob Ford, the former Toronto mayor who polarized voters with his brash, uncompromising political style and became an international celebrity for his drug and alcohol use while in office, has died. He was 46. Ford died this morning after battling cancer since 2014. His death was confirmed by his chief of staff Dan Jacobs, who issued the following statement:

"With heavy hearts and profound sadness, the Ford family announces the passing of their beloved son, brother, husband, and father, Councillor Rob Ford earlier today at the age of 46. A dedicated man of the people, Councillor Ford spent his life serving the citizens of Toronto. The family asks that you respect their privacy and join them in their grieving and their prayers. The family will not be making any statements to the media or taking any questions. Information will follow at a later time regarding memorial services. Over his decade and a half in municipal politics, Ford won a devoted following for being a straight talker who championed the average taxpayer."

He was equally defined by his apparent contradictions: a millionaire with a working-class attitude; a cost-cutting crusader who promoted subway expansion over less expensive transit solutions; and a man who while serving as mayor often seemed more interested in coaching high school football.
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Moliere »

"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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Re: Too Late to Start Thinking About 2015? (Canadian Electio

Post by Sudy »

As I posted in EBG:

"This has affected me more deeply than I could have imagined. (I live just outside Toronto in one of its satellite cities.) I disagreed vehemently with the majority of his politics and thought he was an embarrassment to his city and country. But I identified with his profound imperfection and his struggle to hide it. I really thought he'd beat his cancer. 46 is only 15 years from my present age, and doesn't seem nearly as far away as it once did.

But mostly, his loss strikes me as a reminder of how poor a job I do of loving my enemy when the opportunity presents itself. And also a realization that at some point, sometimes earlier than expected, you run out of chances."
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