Shootings

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat May 28, 2022 10:41 am

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:44 pm
Kraken wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:29 pm Home defense? Sure, with some training and safe-storage conditions
How do you safely store a weapon when seconds matter?

I believe we have the technology for fingerprint-recognition trigger locks. Restricting the use of the gun to its registered owner would put a dent in accidental shootings and suicides without impeding home defense. That counts as safe storage IMO.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat May 28, 2022 10:49 am

From Heather Cox Richardson's column yesterday:

A Politico/Morning consult poll out Wednesday showed “huge support” for gun regulations. It showed that 88% of voters strongly or somewhat support background checks on all gun sales, while only 8% strongly or somewhat oppose such checks. That’s a net approval of +80.

Preventing gun sales to people who have been reported to police as dangerous by a mental health provider is supported by 84% of voters while only 9% oppose it, a net approval of +75.

Seventy-seven percent of voters support requiring guns to be stored in a safe storage unit, while only 15% oppose such a requirement, a net approval of +62.

A national database for gun sales gets 75% approval and 18% disapproval, a net approval rate of +57.

Banning assault style weapons like the AR-15 has an approval rate of 67% of voters while only 25% disapprove. That’s a net approval of +42.

And fifty-four percent of voters approve of arming teachers with concealed weapons, while only 34% oppose it, a net approval of +20.

And yet, their opposition to regulation and their embrace of cowboy individualism means Republicans have made it clear they will not entertain any measures to regulate gun ownership, except perhaps the last one, which teachers, parents, students, and the two largest teachers’ unions all overwhelmingly oppose.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat May 28, 2022 11:00 am

Saw this on Twitter....

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat May 28, 2022 11:07 am

Man, I hate to say it, but that is pretty point on here.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat May 28, 2022 12:50 pm

Spoiler:

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sat May 28, 2022 12:57 pm

Trump's speech at the NRA called for more security. I believe he said a "top to bottom overhaul" of all schools in the country. Because of course he did.

Each major school shooting — Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland — has added fuel to a multibillion-dollar industry encompassing everything from sophisticated surveillance technology to high-priced consultants to explain it all to anxious educators.

The recent tragedies are pumping new energy — not to mention funds — into strategies to keep children safe, including millions of dollars in federal money from the STOP School Violence Act.

I'm all for more security at schools but theater and boondoggles are the most likely outcome..

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Sat May 28, 2022 1:59 pm

I wonder if my 8th grader will be in school long enough to enjoy “TSA-Pre” style passes that let him skip the hour long line to get through the new school security checkpoints.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:41 pm Where does an 18 year old get the money for all this

Took a few days, but here you go:

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1530626061951705091

I’d wondered how an 18-year-old could afford the two rifles he bought. Turns out the manufacturers have financing plans.

Because of course you can get an instant loan to purchase guns at the age of 18.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:22 pm

I assumed financing of some type was involved. Everything else can be either financed or put on a credit card. It makes sense that it’s the same for firearms.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:34 pm

The tipping point in American gun culture was when the 2ndA was interpreted as a nearly unlimited right to private possession and the "well-regulated militia" clause was (un-Constitutionally) erased.

I wish it were possible to have an honest debate on reversing that sleight-of-hand. The gun-humpers claiming to stand on an immutable Constitutional right actually aren't.

(Old, tired point, I know. I'm just so old and tired.)

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat May 28, 2022 7:54 pm

This happened today. Beyond parody.

Police said a person carrying a rifle walked into the Wellston Food Market in the 6200 block of Page Avenue around 2:50 p.m. That person did not use the weapon in a threatening manner, according to authorities.

After leaving the store, a man approached the rifle-toting individual and demanded the weapon. The individual complied and handed over the rifle. Police said the robbery victim went to a vehicle, grabbed another gun, and began shooting at the suspect. A shootout ensued between both parties.

During the shootout, two innocent bystanders were struck by gunfire. Their injuries are non-life-threatening.

The man who took the rifle was shot multiple times. The victim of the robbery left the scene, but police believe another man returned moments later and also shot the man who took the rifle.

Which one was the good guy with the gun? I’m so confused…

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:37 pm

Solid observation

https://mobile.twitter.com/radleybalko/ ... 1155534849

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:36 pm

Well, maybe...were the cops "other"? i.e., non-Hispanic or from outside the community?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:52 pm

Kraken wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 9:36 pm Well, maybe...were the cops "other"? i.e., non-Hispanic or from outside the community?

That's a good question, but it's probably the case that "cop culture" often overrides other identities.

A Latino cop in Texas probably spends years being invited to see "illegals" as criminals, and their loyalty on a daily basis is expected to align with fellow cops rather than underclass community members.

"Serve and Protect" appears to have limits.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue May 31, 2022 12:13 am

Serve and protect is a marketing slogan.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 31, 2022 8:29 am

I remember first learning that a while ago (probably from you , a couple years back).

Honest legal question: if they are Not there to protect (and they aren’t), how can they legally keep people from protecting themselves or their own kids in a violent school shooting.
Seems like people rights to ‘self defense’ would entirely trump their ‘active investigation’ bullshit, especially as they have fully claimed to not be their for anyones safety.

It’s a joke. Obviously everyone is brought up with the idea that they are there to protect us. They obviously leverage that lie to do just about everything they do.

They talk endlessly about their bravery, which one must admit is complete horseshit when paired with the declaration that they have no obligation to protect the innocent.

I’ve never in my life been ‘anti-cop’ , but I’m nearly fully on board right now.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue May 31, 2022 9:15 am

#NotAllCops

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 31, 2022 9:40 am

Sure. But all the cops are excused from the duty of protecting little kids and they will stop you from protecting little kids if you were to feel compelled to do so.

I honestly don’t know how they can leverage the position of ‘we shot that guy as he left the traffic stop because he was a danger to the people in the community’ , and yet also be able to fall back on ‘we are not obligated to defend people’.

In fact, they have the license to put their knee on your neck if you try and save your kid while they refuse to.

That’s a fucking problem #AllCops have laid out in front of them.

I certainly feel the police in ‘my town’ (a well off suburb) are good people, and yet I can honestly say I don’t trust them with the safety of my kids anymore at all.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue May 31, 2022 9:42 am

When seconds count, they are (at least) minutes away.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue May 31, 2022 9:57 am

Unagi wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:40 am Sure. But all the cops are excused from the duty of protecting little kids and they will stop you from protecting little kids if you were to feel compelled to do so.

I honestly don’t know how they can leverage the position of ‘we shot that guy as he left the traffic stop because he was a danger to the people in the community’ , and yet also be able to fall back on ‘we are not obligated to defend people’.

In fact, they have the license to put their knee on your neck if you try and save your kid while they refuse to.

You may recall the Mercy Hospital shooting here a few years ago. Officer Samuel Jimenez was killed engaging the gunman as he ran into the hospital after murdering his ex-fiance in the parking lot. Jimenez and the other responding officers managed to stop (kill) the gunman, fortunately. One bystander was killed. It could have been a lot worse.

Police policy, by and large, is to confront an active shooter as soon as possible. It is Uvalde's written policy, in fact. Policy, training, and real-world action are three very different things.

That’s a fucking problem #AllCops have laid out in front of them.

I certainly feel the police in ‘my town’ (a well off suburb) are good people, and yet I can honestly say I don’t trust them with the safety of my kids anymore at all.

The problem is that we are trying to solve a number of issues. Violence, guns, police brutality, racism, etc. Some solutions seem contradictory. We need police to help prevent violence but empowering them to do so can lead to abuse of that power, especially when racist motivation is involved. Solving all of these is complex and difficult. But it needs doing.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 31, 2022 10:20 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:57 am You may recall the Mercy Hospital shooting here a few years ago. Officer Samuel Jimenez was killed engaging the gunman as he ran into the hospital after murdering his ex-fiance in the parking lot. Jimenez and the other responding officers managed to stop (kill) the gunman, fortunately. One bystander was killed. It could have been a lot worse.

Police policy, by and large, is to confront an active shooter as soon as possible. It is Uvalde's written policy, in fact. Policy, training, and real-world action are three very different things.

I absolutely do. It was heroic and brave and I felt that way because I knew they put their life up - in order to protect other people. But I am made to understand that this was an individual choice. This was a hero. This isn't the police that gets to claim that hero label. It is Samuel Jimenez* that gets the Hero label. (* and the other responding officers)

But here is maybe a better way to express my question/point. How long will it be before we see police being told to act more in line with how a Best Buy employee is told to react to these events.

I'm all for the police being seen as heroes. I'm aware of a number of stories that are like Mercy Hospital. But it's true that they are not there to protect us, and they can fail us enormously when they are seen to be in that role but then suddenly back off and fail.

And, yes, thanks (sincere) - I appreciate being reminded that there are a lot of problems to solve. And it's complex and might even be in such a knot that it can't be loosened without first being tightened, or something like that...

I'm just kinda giving my 'man on the street' / 'father of two kids in school' feelings. I grew up with "Officer Friendly" visits to our school. I took my kids to 'meet the police' type events (ok, it was "Touch a Truck") in town when they were young...
On balance, my opinion now is that they are mostly a risk to their liberties. And it's pretty easy to think how I would feel if I wasn't white and living in a privileged community.

Dogstar · Post by **Dogstar** » Tue May 31, 2022 11:24 am

US quickly responds to Uvalde with new gun control measures... oh, wait, that's Canada.

Canada should introduce a total ban on the buying and selling of all handguns, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said.
His government is proposing a new law that would freeze private ownership of all short-barrelled firearms.
The legislation would not ban the ownership of handguns outright - but would make it illegal to buy them.
Mr Trudeau's proposal comes days after a deadly shooting at a Texas primary school, in the neighbouring US, killed 21 people.
The bill, which was presented to Canada's parliament on Monday, makes it impossible to buy, sell, transfer or import handguns anywhere in the country.
"Other than using firearms for sport shooting and hunting, there is no reason anyone in Canada should need guns in their everyday lives," Mr Trudeau told reporters.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue May 31, 2022 11:51 am

Unagi wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 10:20 am
I'm all for the police being seen as heroes. I'm aware of a number of stories that are like Mercy Hospital. But it's true that they are not there to protect us, and they can fail us enormously when they are seen to be in that role but then suddenly back off and fail.

My stance is this: they may try to protect me/my family. If needed, I will call on them to do so. But ultimately, the only one guaranteed to do so is me. If I'm not there, like when they are at school, I just have to hope the police do the right thing. It's also why I have conversations with my kids on the regular about what to do in situations like that. May be nothing to do, I'm under no illusions there, but if there is I want them to know it.

I meet regularly with our CPD District CAPS team, the district Commander, and beat cops. I respect them but I'm not counting on them.

A friend in the neighborhood contacted me about an incident a day after it happened. 4am on a Saturday he had two completely wasted guys on his porch trying to bash in his door. He sent his wife and kids upstairs to call 911 and had to physically hold the door to keep them from gaining entry. He had cuts and bruises from the effort. It took police 8 minutes to get there, which is really good time. A lot can happen in 8 minutes and he was fortunate he was able to hold the door. Them being completely drunk probably helped a little. He lives in our beat. So I'm assuming 8 minutes at best. I need a plan for at least 8 minutes with zero police presence.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue May 31, 2022 1:42 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 12:57 pm Trump's speech at the NRA called for more security. I believe he said a "top to bottom overhaul" of all schools in the country. Because of course he did.

Each major school shooting — Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland — has added fuel to a multibillion-dollar industry encompassing everything from sophisticated surveillance technology to high-priced consultants to explain it all to anxious educators.

The recent tragedies are pumping new energy — not to mention funds — into strategies to keep children safe, including millions of dollars in federal money from the STOP School Violence Act.
I'm all for more security at schools but theater and boondoggles are the most likely outcome..

FWIW, the actual result of "More Security" has only been more use of force and arrests at schools...

As Reason reported in June, civil liberties groups and disability advocates have been warning that the hiring surge has led to a disturbing number of arrests of children. The new study bears out at least some of their concerns. It found that the presence of SROs "predicted greater numbers of behavioral incidents being reported to law enforcement, particularly for less severe infractions and among middle schoolers." While overall youth arrests in the state declined by 12 percent, the number of youth arrests at school increased 8 percent.

The study reported that police arrested elementary-aged children 345 times during the 2018–2019 school year. It also found four times as many incidents of physical restraint in 2018–2019 as there were in the previous year.

From the clickthrough:

In December, a Pasco deputy threatened to shoot a high school student who was attempting to leave the campus in his car. The deputy and a school staffer had blocked the student from leaving, leading to a long standoff between both parties.

"You're gonna get shot you come another fucking foot closer to me," the deputy says at one point as the student tries to maneuver around him. "You run into me, you'll get fucking shot."

The student's mother, who obtained body camera footage of the exchange, said her son had an orthodontist appointment that she'd notified the school of weeks in advance.

Last October, an SRO in the county was fired after he accidentally fired his gun in a middle school cafeteria. According to Pasco Sheriff's Office disciplinary records, "Video surveillance captured him mishandling his agency issued firearm, which caused an accidental discharge. The projective entered and exited his uniform pants leg and struck the wall behind him; bullet fragments were located on the ground adjacent to the lunch line where students were standing at the time of the discharge."

The Pasco Sheriff's Office terminated another SRO, Milton Arroyo, in 2017 after an investigation found he was sending inappropriate text messages to several female students at the high school he patrolled.

Article also includes information about 5 and 6 year olds being handcuffed and arrested...

Last year, an SRO in Orlando, Florida sparked public outrage after he arrested a 6-year-old girl, Kaia Rolle, for misdemeanor battery. A small child, handcuffed and arrested, booked and given a mugshot? The arrest made national news and led to the officer's firing. It wasn't an isolated incident, though. Stories like that pop up every few years. In 2006, it was a St. Petersburg 5-year-old who was handcuffed and arrested in school.

Autistic kids being imprisoned in mental hospitalts for days...

When Florida resident William Terry's autistic 11-year-old son was Baker Acted after hitting a teacher at Boca Raton Community Middle School while having a meltdown, Terry says his wife showed up at the school minutes after she was called but was not allowed to see her child.

"My wife, as you can imagine with a special needs kid, has got a very special bond with him, and she can usually calm him down," Terry says. "All of his teachers know that, but they separated her from him."

Instead, Terry's son was handcuffed, sent to a hospital, and held for psychiatric evaluation for the full 72 hours allowed under the law. Terry says he and his wife were only allowed to visit their son for an hour a day during that time.

Not sure that there is any actual benefit, but...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue May 31, 2022 2:29 pm

More security doesn't necessarily mean more SROs or security guards. It can be external camera systems, door alarms/indicators (to prevent propping them open), parking lot and driveway gates, etc. Depends very much on the school.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue May 31, 2022 5:53 pm

https://twitter.com/gringostani/status/ ... 8189898752

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue May 31, 2022 6:05 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:29 pm More security doesn't necessarily mean more SROs or security guards. It can be external camera systems, door alarms/indicators (to prevent propping them open), parking lot and driveway gates, etc. Depends very much on the school.

IMHO, schools have other massively underfunded items I'd place a higher priority on...

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue May 31, 2022 6:20 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:29 pm More security doesn't necessarily mean more SROs or security guards. It can be external camera systems, door alarms/indicators (to prevent propping them open), parking lot and driveway gates, etc. Depends very much on the school.

Going to add that one of this initial GOP deflection points is false:

The Uvalde elementary school back door wasn’t propped open.

“A law enforcement source familiar with the investigation said surveillance video and audio verifies the teacher removed the rock holding the door open and closed it.

‘She slammed it shut.’”

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue May 31, 2022 6:28 pm

Pyperkub wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 6:20 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:29 pm More security doesn't necessarily mean more SROs or security guards. It can be external camera systems, door alarms/indicators (to prevent propping them open), parking lot and driveway gates, etc. Depends very much on the school.
Going to add that one of this initial GOP deflection points is false:

The Uvalde elementary school back door wasn’t propped open.

“A law enforcement source familiar with the investigation said surveillance video and audio verifies the teacher removed the rock holding the door open and closed it.

‘She slammed it shut.’”

I don't think it's so much a GOP deflection point as what was reported by the Texas Department of Public Safety just a few days ago. The GOP may have latched onto it but we can only go with what was reported. Either way, it was an unsecured door. Alarm systems or positive locking mechanism would have ensured it was locked. It's not a substitute for other measures (including firearm regulation) but it is a basic tenet of building security.

Pyperkub wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 6:05 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:29 pm More security doesn't necessarily mean more SROs or security guards. It can be external camera systems, door alarms/indicators (to prevent propping them open), parking lot and driveway gates, etc. Depends very much on the school.
IMHO, schools have other massively underfunded items I'd place a higher priority on...

Why is it either/or? Can't we just properly fund schools? Granted much of this is state-specific.

And yeah, like I said previously, if it's just grift and boondoggle I'm not interested.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue May 31, 2022 7:20 pm

I agree that schools should be a safe space for learning. I'm not big on surveillance tho, while I do recognize the utility.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue May 31, 2022 7:21 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 6:28 pm Why is it either/or? Can't we just properly fund schools? Granted much of this is state-specific.

School funding is where the culture war happens. In PA, for instance, state-wide funding debates are about Pennsyltucky being at war with Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

And yeah, like I said previously, if it's just grift and boondoggle I'm not interested.

It's that, and that's everything.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue May 31, 2022 7:28 pm

Holman wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:21 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 6:28 pm Why is it either/or? Can't we just properly fund schools? Granted much of this is state-specific.
School funding is where the culture war happens. In PA, for instance, state-wide funding debates are about Pennsyltucky being at war with Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

And yeah, like I said previously, if it's just grift and boondoggle I'm not interested.
It's that, and that's everything.

Especially the privatization and shift of public school monies to private grifters...

Byrd reported wide-ranging misuse of funds at the school, millions of dollars hidden from public view and lacking oversight from the entities tasked with holding Epic accountable.

For years, Epic dodged penalties by inaccurately reporting millions in administrative costs, a move that reportedly lined the pockets of the school’s co-founders and their charter management company, according to the audit report.

Epic’s co-founders, Ben Harris and David Chaney, also own the private company that helps manage the virtual charter school. The company, called Epic Youth Services, receives 10% of the school’s revenue as a management fee. It also runs a bank account of money for student activities, called the Learning Fund.

Epic exceeded the state-mandated limit on administrative costs by overspending on salaries and payments to Epic Youth Services, auditors said. The school reportedly covered it up by reclassifying certain expenditures as non-administrative in financial reports to the Oklahoma State Department of Education.

Oklahoma public schools with more than 1,500 students cannot spend more than 5% of funds on administrators.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue May 31, 2022 7:31 pm

There is a problem with Ted Cruz's prison school plan.

https://twitter.com/rebekahallen/status ... 6666166273

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue May 31, 2022 8:46 pm

Circling the wagons.

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue May 31, 2022 9:26 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:46 pm Circling the wagons.

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News.

Circling the wagons with the dead kids on the outside. Heroes!

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue May 31, 2022 11:23 pm

Memorial Day weekend tally in Chicago: 51 shot, 9 dead.

Make that 55/9.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:54 pm

Unagi wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 10:20 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:57 am You may recall the Mercy Hospital shooting here a few years ago. Officer Samuel Jimenez was killed engaging the gunman as he ran into the hospital after murdering his ex-fiance in the parking lot. Jimenez and the other responding officers managed to stop (kill) the gunman, fortunately. One bystander was killed. It could have been a lot worse.

Police policy, by and large, is to confront an active shooter as soon as possible. It is Uvalde's written policy, in fact. Policy, training, and real-world action are three very different things.
I absolutely do. It was heroic and brave and I felt that way because I knew they put their life up - in order to protect other people. But I am made to understand that this was an individual choice. This was a hero. This isn't the police that gets to claim that hero label. It is Samuel Jimenez* that gets the Hero label. (* and the other responding officers)

But here is maybe a better way to express my question/point. How long will it be before we see police being told to act more in line with how a Best Buy employee is told to react to these events.

I'm all for the police being seen as heroes. I'm aware of a number of stories that are like Mercy Hospital. But it's true that they are not there to protect us, and they can fail us enormously when they are seen to be in that role but then suddenly back off and fail.

And, yes, thanks (sincere) - I appreciate being reminded that there are a lot of problems to solve. And it's complex and might even be in such a knot that it can't be loosened without first being tightened, or something like that...

I'm just kinda giving my 'man on the street' / 'father of two kids in school' feelings. I grew up with "Officer Friendly" visits to our school. I took my kids to 'meet the police' type events (ok, it was "Touch a Truck") in town when they were young...
On balance, my opinion now is that they are mostly a risk to their liberties. And it's pretty easy to think how I would feel if I wasn't white and living in a privileged community.

This is a fantastic take, IMO, and really clarifies what I have been thinking for the past few years really. And it's not just the police. This has to do with an unhealthy lionization of the military, police, firemen, etc. Should we respect and appreciate the work that these people do considering they're in risky service roles? Absolutely.

But like with many things here, we have gone way too far, and now anyone who has ANY kind of uniform "should" be seen as an instant hero. "The Police" are not heroic. There ARE very definitely some amazng and badass heroes who are police men and women though. Same for vets, same for firemen, etc. But also same for teachers, some random kid in a gas station that gets held up and saves someone's life, and even Bob in accounting.

And there are some horrible people wearing uniforms as well (just like Dave in HR, teachers, etc etc). We as a culture, or nation seem to have focused so much on that first part, that we forgot about the last part, and in fact have as a culture, very much looked down on anyone who brings the idea up. I will buy that SOME of this goes back to the shit treatment of Vietnam vets, but not all of it. I think collectively we as a country looked back on that behavior and were ashamed (maybe).

I also think it's a relatively modern right wing culture "thing" where they have hard ons for authority, strong men, and authority figures in general. (Daddy issues much?

) Though I don't have to go far back in my memory to remember when it most definitely wasn't, or didn't seem to be political at all...more of a national "thing". It really does tie into the whole "Jesus was a hardcore badass, not a gentle philosopher" kinda thing.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:59 pm

I know enough cops to know that they're not all bad and many do the job for the right reasons. At the same time, I know enough cops to know that they're all great and many are in the job for the wrong reasons.

The thing is, they're all humans. They have the same frailties as any of us. They are also currently completely demoralized and the good ones are just happy to survive the day and go home. The bad ones are left to act the thug. All the while, politicians bang whatever drum suits their needs. LawnOrder, Defund™, etc.

All that said, the cops are the backup plan . Calling 911 is the first action but you've got several minutes to make it through before they get there. Well, unless they're already there and the Chief doesn't know what the fuck to do and holds them back while a gunman executes children.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:10 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:59 pm I know enough cops to know that they're not all bad and many do the job for the right reasons. At the same time, I know enough cops to know that they're all great and many are in the job for the wrong reasons.

The thing is, they're all humans. They have the same frailties as any of us. They are also currently completely demoralized and the good ones are just happy to survive the day and go home.

Yep, and I meant to mention the "they are human" part and left it out. Fixed, to an extent.

Many teachers are also in that demoralized boat, and just want to make it through the day, and get a paycheck without being accused of teaching CRT or whatever educational outrage the right media has conjured up for that week.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:22 pm

Guess doctors and nurses will be joining teachers in having the GOP recommend they strap up on the job.

Multiple victims in shooting at Tulsa hospital.