Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:03 am**

GreenGoo wrote:My boss is the rudest fucker you'd ever have the displeasure to deal with in a professional environment.

That said, he's the best at burning through bureaucratic red tape and intransigence that I've ever seen.

I both loathe and respect him. I don't like it.

My boss has added a middle eastern "battle cry" ring tone (like the rolling ailailail whatever shout) that ends with "infidel, your phone is ringing".

The accent sounds more Indian/pakistani than middle eastern, but it's still incredibly offensive.

Fuck, I hate him.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:23 am**

GreenGoo wrote:My boss has added a middle eastern "battle cry" ring tone (like the rolling ailailail whatever shout) that ends with "infidel, your phone is ringing".

Ululation

Right up until the ringtone anecdote, I thought you might be talking about one of my old bosses (you toil in the bowels of DND, iirc), but he wouldn't do that. He's blunt, can be foul-mouthed and slices through bureaucratic BS with joyous abandon if that is required to accomplish the mission, but that ringtone isn't his style. He was great to work for because he'd always have your back, but a nightmare to work with (especially if he was competing for the same resources that you wanted) by all accounts. I only had to work for him, so to me he was the living avatar of awesome.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:28 am**

Max Peck wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:My boss has added a middle eastern "battle cry" ring tone (like the rolling ailailail whatever shout) that ends with "infidel, your phone is ringing".
Ululation

Yeah, that's it, thanks for clarifying.

No one could like this guy. I'm not sure how he's married. That said, there are benefits for working for him, and he has handled some personal stuff with remarkable care, so I can't fully endorse my own annoyance with him, but man does he make himself unlikeable.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:29 am**

I'm trying, but I can't figure out why that is offensive. There are people who think we are infidels and his phone is ringing. What am I missing? Even the war cry isn't offensive to me. Should it be? I'm usually pretty good at seeing this stuff, so I'm genuinely curious.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:36 am**

stessier wrote:I'm trying, but I can't figure out why that is offensive. There are people who think we are infidels and his phone is ringing. What am I missing? Even the war cry isn't offensive to me. Should it be? I'm usually pretty good at seeing this stuff, so I'm genuinely curious.

Hmm, I'll have to think about it. Certainly, there is context. He's racist as fuck and doesn't hide it (the team is all white males) so there's that. Plus, he has another ringtone that is india/pakistani shouting that your fucking phone is ringing you fuck.

Given that I know what he thinks about indian/pakistani/middle eastern people, and that the accent is stereotypical, and the shout is normally associated with terrorists (or just people who really, really hate the US and/or the west).

If his ringtone was of a stereotypical chinese person who couldn't pronounce their l's, would that be ok?

I'm curious what you think his motivation for having a middle eastern ululation ringtone combined with stereotypical infidel comments might be? Does he just like the sound? Does he feel that he is an infidel and should be shouted at every time his phone rings?

While he hasn't added a street speak voice talking about watermelon yet, this isn't that far off imo.

What if we had a middle eastern member of the team? Would the ringtone still be acceptable? Why or why not?

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:36 am**

stessier wrote:I'm trying, but I can't figure out why that is offensive. There are people who think we are infidels and his phone is ringing. What am I missing? Even the war cry isn't offensive to me. Should it be? I'm usually pretty good at seeing this stuff, so I'm genuinely curious.

Try it with a war whoop and replace "Infidel" with "Pale Face." It sounds like it's a cheap and obnoxious stereotype.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:37 am**

Whoa...whoa...whoa there. Crazed Indians...sorry, Native Americans...calling me pale face and yelling war cries is a very real and present danger in my world.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:41 am**

I think I'm okay with it because of the "infidel" comment. That makes me think "terrorist" and thus the war cry is on point. And I thus find it funny that a terrorist is telling an infidel to answer his phone. I don't see it as making a larger comment about a race or situation as I don't think all Muslims think we are infidels except technically (any more than I think all Christians see the others groups as heretics, except technically they are).

Does that make sense?

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 11:46 am**

GreenGoo wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:My boss is the rudest fucker you'd ever have the displeasure to deal with in a professional environment.

That said, he's the best at burning through bureaucratic red tape and intransigence that I've ever seen.

I both loathe and respect him. I don't like it.
My boss has added a middle eastern "battle cry" ring tone (like the rolling ailailail whatever shout) that ends with "infidel, your phone is ringing".

The accent sounds more Indian/pakistani than middle eastern, but it's still incredibly offensive.

Fuck, I hate him.

Isn't that illegal in your repressive regime? Perhaps you can turn him in for sedition.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 12:05 pm**

Maybe it's because I live in a hugely Muslim area and specifically a Middle Eastern Muslim area but it seems offensive to me, in that you would and should be embarrassed to have a ring making that noise in any public place around here, much like you'd look around and lower your volume before telling any joke against against any race, sex, religion, etc...

Does it offend me, personally? Nope, but I wouldn't blame the guy next to me for losing his temper over it or a store owner for asking you to leave after hearing the ring. It's a free country (Do they say that in Canada?), but you're being an ass and people rightly get pissed at other people being an ass.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 12:15 pm**

stessier wrote:I think I'm okay with it because of the "infidel" comment. That makes me think "terrorist" and thus the war cry is on point. And I thus find it funny that a terrorist is telling an infidel to answer his phone. I don't see it as making a larger comment about a race or situation as I don't think all Muslims think we are infidels except technically (any more than I think all Christians see the others groups as heretics, except technically they are).

Does that make sense?

That depends on a few things, such as whether ululation is primarily used as a war cry in the first place, and whether you're asking a rhetorical question. If the response to both of those is "no", then one answer might be that linking ululation (which is largely associated with celebration, across many cultures) with Islamic extremism seems like a somewhat unwarranted stereotype that can lead the unwashed masses to associate something like a wedding celebration with terrorism, which seems uncool.

A less nuanced (or less SJW-esque, take your pick) answer would be "How the fuck can anybody be OK with annoying custom ringtones in the workplace. God gave us silent mode for a reason, people!" (I'm totally serious here. You can tell by the lack of any smiley-emoji.)

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 12:23 pm**

Max Peck wrote:
stessier wrote:I think I'm okay with it because of the "infidel" comment. That makes me think "terrorist" and thus the war cry is on point. And I thus find it funny that a terrorist is telling an infidel to answer his phone. I don't see it as making a larger comment about a race or situation as I don't think all Muslims think we are infidels except technically (any more than I think all Christians see the others groups as heretics, except technically they are).

Does that make sense?
That depends on a few things, such as whether ululation is primarily used as a war cry in the first place, and whether you're asking a rhetorical question. If the response to both of those is "no", then one answer might be that linking ululation (which is largely associated with celebration, across many cultures) with Islamic extremism seems like a somewhat unwarranted stereotype that can lead the unwashed masses to associate something like a wedding celebration with terrorism, which seems uncool.

I can see that.

A less nuanced (or less SJW-esque, take your pick) answer would be "How the fuck can anybody be OK with annoying custom ringtones in the workplace. God gave us silent mode for a reason, people!" (I'm totally serious here. You can tell by the lack of any smiley-emoji.)

Oh yeah, if that was the basis for calling the guy scum, I'm with ya. There is a special place reserved for people who leave their phones at their desks with the ringer volume maxed out.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 12:30 pm**

GreenGoo wrote:
stessier wrote:I'm trying, but I can't figure out why that is offensive. There are people who think we are infidels and his phone is ringing. What am I missing? Even the war cry isn't offensive to me. Should it be? I'm usually pretty good at seeing this stuff, so I'm genuinely curious.
Hmm, I'll have to think about it. Certainly, there is context. He's racist as fuck and doesn't hide it (the team is all white males) so there's that. Plus, he has another ringtone that is india/pakistani shouting that your fucking phone is ringing you fuck.

Given that I know what he thinks about indian/pakistani/middle eastern people, and that the accent is stereotypical, and the shout is normally associated with terrorists (or just people who really, really hate the US and/or the west).

If his ringtone was of a stereotypical chinese person who couldn't pronounce their l's, would that be ok?

I'm curious what you think his motivation for having a middle eastern ululation ringtone combined with stereotypical infidel comments might be? Does he just like the sound? Does he feel that he is an infidel and should be shouted at every time his phone rings?

While he hasn't added a street speak voice talking about watermelon yet, this isn't that far off imo.

What if we had a middle eastern member of the team? Would the ringtone still be acceptable? Why or why not?

Do you not laugh when they do it on American Dad, SouthPark, or Family guy?

Would it be offensive if I had a ringtone that had a Canadian guy telling me to answer my phone with a bunch of ehs in it?

I wish I could get on of Hillary telling me to answer my phone with that fake ass southern draw.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 12:39 pm**

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 12:42 pm**

Rip wrote:Do you not laugh when they do it on American Dad, SouthPark, or Family guy?

That's the first thing I thought of and am still wondering why it's different and it does feel different.

The best I can come up with is that these show recognize its satire and you are watching that satire in the privacy of your own home.

But even harder to reconcile in my hypocrisy is that if you mix the scenarios together, I don't think I'd be offended if someone had a ring tone of Apu repeating "Thankyou. Come again." over and over. I'd probably mentally laugh the first two or three times I heard it.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 12:44 pm**

LordMortis wrote:
The best I can come up with is that these show recognize its satire.

This. There's a difference between writing A Modest Proposal and acting it out.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 1:04 pm**

So I bring up the ringtone with co-workers at lunch.

me: "how about that new ringtone of boss'?"

co-worker: "blah blah blah racist blah blah blah"

me "It is racist, right? It's not just me?"

co-worker: "oh yeah, no question. duh"

me "ok, thanks. I thought it was but people had me questioning myself"

co-worker "racist as fuck"

Me "thank you"

So in the end this isn't something I'm interested in debating/discussing in any further detail. I find it incredibly offensive, especially when combined with his overtly racist comments and his other ringtones that stereotype races.

If you disagree, that's fine, but no amount of rationale is going to convince me that HE DOESN'T find it racist. It's racist, and that's why he chose it.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 1:06 pm**

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Isn't that illegal in your repressive regime? Perhaps you can turn him in for sedition.

Most charges don't stick, for the record.

But also for the record, I didn't ask the government to do something about it. I'm pretty sure complaining about co-workers is a god given right in most western countries.

And let's face it, the UK is both more racist and more repressive in what you're allowed to say than Canada, so as far as western countries, we're doing ok.

Don't get me started about Australia.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 1:11 pm**

LordMortis wrote:
Rip wrote:Do you not laugh when they do it on American Dad, SouthPark, or Family guy?

That's the first thing I thought of and am still wondering why it's different and it does feel different.

Context matters. Those shows mock bigotry, rather than promote it. There is no inherent conflict in enjoying someone lampooning offensive behaviour while disliking the actual behaviour itself; that's the basis for a huge body of comedy.

Not related to your comment, but I finally found the bit from Three Kings that always makes me chuckle when the "ululation as battle cry" trope rears up.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 1:38 pm**

Max Peck wrote:Context matters. Those shows mock bigotry, rather than promote it. There is no inherent conflict in enjoying someone lampooning offensive behaviour while disliking the actual behaviour itself; that's the basis for a huge body of comedy.

Maybe it's my own bigotry shining through but I'm not sure this is the case. I know they are satirizing bigotry but I think they get away with the satire and are praised because they expose things we just don't talk about in polite company.

The Apu stereotype is still a stereotype and it's funny because it's familiar. The more offensive shows make their bread and butter off of being offensive and being unapologetic about it. As much as they are satirizing bigotry, they are also demanding that we grow a thicker skin at the same time and they are willing to leap way past every line drawn to make that statement and what we end up laughing at isn't the clever nature of the satire. It's juvenile stereotyping. Or maybe it's just me.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 2:52 pm**

Chiropractors

Chiropractors have been caught allegedly sneaking into Australian maternity wards to treat newborn babies, publicly flouting their own regulations.

The behaviour has been slammed by other practitioners who say they are fed up with a minority tarnishing the profession.

NSW chiropractor Grant Bond allegedly snuck into Wollongong Private Hospital to treat a three-day-old baby, claiming his touch allowed the infant to have "his first poo!". Similar allegations have been levelled at a Victorian chiropractor.
...
The chief executive of Wollongong Private, David Crowe, said Dr Bond had entered the ward without the permission of the hospital or the treating doctor.

Chiropractors are banned from treating patients inside a healthcare facility, without the institution's permission.
...
A formal complaint has also been made to AHPRA against Melbourne chiropractor Bianca Beaumont after she published a photograph online that the complainant alleged shows her treating a newborn in hospital.

While the location of the photograph is unknown and Dr Beaumont did not respond to requests for comment, two of Melbourne's major birthing hospitals said they would not allow external chiropractors to treat babies on their wards.
...
A woman who gave birth in John Hunter Hospital in 2008 recounted a female chiropractor sneaking into the maternity ward to adjust the newborn of a mother who lay in the bed next to her.
...
"The chiro 'adjusted' the baby, which the baby did not seem to enjoy, and she told the mum that vaginal birth was incredibly traumatic for the baby and every newborn should be adjusted within 24 hours of birth to make sure they're aligned," she said.

"[The mother] said the chiro had to sneak in like some sort of criminal and pretend to be a visitor because the hospital won't let her do her work."
...
The president of Chiropractic Australia, associate professor Rodney Bonello, said many chiropractors were "horrified and embarrassed" by the cases.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 3:16 pm**

LordMortis wrote:
Max Peck wrote:Context matters. Those shows mock bigotry, rather than promote it. There is no inherent conflict in enjoying someone lampooning offensive behaviour while disliking the actual behaviour itself; that's the basis for a huge body of comedy.
Maybe it's my own bigotry shining through but I'm not sure this is the case. I know they are satirizing bigotry but I think they get away with the satire and are praised because they expose things we just don't talk about in polite company.

The Apu stereotype is still a stereotype and it's funny because it's familiar. The more offensive shows make their bread and butter off of being offensive and being unapologetic about it. As much as they are satirizing bigotry, they are also demanding that we grow a thicker skin at the same time and they are willing to leap way past every line drawn to make that statement and what we end up laughing at isn't the clever nature of the satire. It's juvenile stereotyping. Or maybe it's just me.

Juvenile humour is still humour.

I think I would have made my point more clearly if I had cited "intent and perception" rather than "context" alone. If I believe that Seth MacFarlane is satirizing misogyny with Peter Griffin, it may seem funny to me in part because the message I get is that this behaviour is stupid, and if I agree then I don't feel conflicted if I find the particular joke to be funny. If I believe he is actually a celebration of misogyny, then Peter goes from being funny to being just a dick. If I know an actual person who behaves like Andrew Dice Clay*, his performance might seem like a portrayal of who he really is and simply be obnoxious; if I don't, he might come across as a caricature that is so over the top that he is hilarious. So it is contextual in a sense, but the context encompasses more than just the medium involved, it involves the interaction between the creator and consumer of the medium, the life experiences of the consumer, etc.

The important thing, on which all rational people can agree, is that Apu (like everything else on The Simpsons) hasn't been funny since season 10.

* The rumour that I might have learned a harsh life lesson in my distant youth, thinking that The Adventures of Ford Fairlane would be an OK date movie, might be true.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 4:29 pm**

I have decided that the cup is half full of air.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 7:03 pm**

USA vs. Canada in the hockey world championship semifinal on Saturday. That might be something that'll get me out of bed at 7am on a weekend (damn time difference).

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 7:08 pm**

gilraen wrote:USA vs. Canada in the hockey world championship semifinal on Saturday. That might be something that'll get me out of bed at 7am on a weekend (damn time difference).

Who's on the other side of the bracket? I heard USA go down to a penalty shot this morning on my way into work, then saw Matthews got both our goals in a come-back 2-1 victory. I caught CAN up 4-0 vs. SWE during my lunch break, which eventually turned into a 6-0 drubbing. I haven't bothered to see who is in the other semis however...

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 7:35 pm**

FIN-RUS

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2016 8:32 pm**

Looking forward to CAN FIN. Should be a dandy.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Posted: **Fri May 20, 2016 7:27 pm**

Blackhawk wrote:I have decided that the cup is half full of air.

The air part is where I put my vodka!

Posted: **Fri May 20, 2016 9:52 pm**

Went to a showing of the newly restored version of The Third Man. I think it's one of the truly perfect movies.

Posted: **Fri May 20, 2016 10:07 pm**

Welles wrote one of the greatest monologues in film history for Lime. What a damn genius. It always makes me sad to think of what eventually became of him. Although his own ego was partially to blame.

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2016 11:49 am**

Welles' charisma is amazing: he's probably on-screen for no more than 15 minutes, but you still come away thinking it's his movie.

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2016 1:03 pm**

gilraen wrote:USA vs. Canada in the hockey world championship semifinal on Saturday. That might be something that'll get me out of bed at 7am on a weekend (damn time difference).

Showing now, here.

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2016 1:19 pm**

The Meal wrote:
gilraen wrote:USA vs. Canada in the hockey world championship semifinal on Saturday. That might be something that'll get me out of bed at 7am on a weekend (damn time difference).
Showing now, here.

Nice, thanks!

When they say "watch now" they aren't kidding. I have this inexplicable longing for Longines and Tissot every 2.7 seconds or so. Really I don't mind the sponsors on uniforms but it looks dumb on the refs.

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2016 1:31 pm**

Grrr...

Okay, at least the 2-0 goal was a beaut (despite it being #63).

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2016 5:41 pm**

tjg_marantz wrote:Looking forward to CAN FIN. Should be a dandy.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Yup. As expected but pleasantly surprised by the effort from the American team.

Not calling the final. Could be close, wouldn't be surprised it went to OT.

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2016 2:32 am**

I really didn't want to start a thread about this in the politics section, I just wanted to get something off my chest.
I see where Obama is about to visit Vietnam. Relationship with Vietnam is good and getting better. I suppose is all for the best but I can't help but feel.....I don't know, betrayed maybe? Disappointed?
Obama isn't really to blame but for some reason I am really sorry to see this happening.
Like I said this is really for the best I'm sure but I just feel...bad (and mad) about this.
<sigh>

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2016 2:50 am**

Our men did all they were ordered and more with their hands tied. I get why you'd feel that way dbt.

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2016 8:02 am**

Christmas is incredibly popular there, the Santa Claus and reindeer version. One of my fb/guitar forum friends lives over there.

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2016 8:35 am**

dbt1949 wrote:I really didn't want to start a thread about this in the politics section, I just wanted to get something off my chest.
I see where Obama is about to visit Vietnam. Relationship with Vietnam is good and getting better. I suppose is all for the best but I can't help but feel.....I don't know, betrayed maybe? Disappointed?
Obama isn't really to blame but for some reason I am really sorry to see this happening.
Like I said this is really for the best I'm sure but I just feel...bad (and mad) about this.
<sigh>

I am not sure why you feel this way. How is mending bridges a bad thing? I had family who fought in 'Nam and a cousin who died there. I dont blame the soldiers who did their duty and I dont blame Nam for it, thats for sure. We had no business sticking our noses in that mess and clearly from our problems in the middle east, we didnt learn a damned thing from our involvement in 'Nam. Anyway, this discussion probably has no business anywhere but the R&P board, so Ill leave it at that.

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2016 9:32 am**

IMO, building stronger ties to Vietnam means pulling them into our orbit. If they're closer to us than to China, that's a kind of a belated victory for our system right there.

My wife's aunt and uncle visited Vietnam in the late 1990s. Maybe it was the tourist-money effect, but they found people very interested in Americans and in joining the world economy. (Our embargo had ended just a few years earlier.) They talked to at least one veteran of the NVA, and although he was proud of his service in the war, he didn't seem to hate Americans at all. It's not North Korea there.

(The uncle was a Pacific-theater WW2 vet, so he found visiting Japan to be more personally affecting.)

Octopus Overlords

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