The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[malchior]

That's a lot and really sad. Best wishes.

[LordMortis]

I am coming to terms with every one making their own decisions... Except mom (who practices social hygiene) and my uncle (parent's neighbor) who has wanton disregard for social hygiene and has been for the duration of my not so latent fear that I am going to lose my mom to his need to literally spread his ignorance. We all have our hypocrisies. It my cousin dies, it was his choice. If my mom catches COVID and the worst happens because she silently allowed others to ignore hygiene, I'll be furious at them more than her.

Mom and dad are tested and negative as of now...

[Smoove_B]

I'm waiting to see the first major private employer in our state to mandate it (J&J? Bank of America? CVS? Prudential?) and that will hopefully start the ball moving...

If you guessed "CVS", collect your prize:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 0360751104

CVS Health is mandating COVID vaccines for most employees:

CVS pharmacists will have until Nov. 30 to be fully vaccinated. Other employees who interact with patients and all corporate staff have until Oct. 31 to comply.

The mandate affects about 100,000 employees.

[Smoove_B]

Also, we're dealing with children

https://twitter.com/cimarcos/status/1430177737696759812

For the second day in a row, most House Republicans (and their staff) are not wearing masks.

The House mask mandate is clearly not being enforced.

[Skinypupy]

I'm legit shocked (albeit pleasantly so) by this.

https://twitter.com/BrodyAMiller/status ... 9910328336

#LSU announces it will require proof of vaccination or a negative COVID PCR test taken within 72 hours in order to attend a game in Tiger Stadium for those 12 or older.

[Unagi]

I'm waiting to see the first major private employer in our state to mandate it (J&J? Bank of America? CVS? Prudential?) and that will hopefully start the ball moving...

If you guessed "CVS", collect your prize:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 0360751104

CVS Health is mandating COVID vaccines for most employees:

CVS pharmacists will have until Nov. 30 to be fully vaccinated. Other employees who interact with patients and all corporate staff have until Oct. 31 to comply.

The mandate affects about 100,000 employees.

Why are they giving the pharmacists an extra month?
Are they worried about losing them?

[Smoove_B]

Why are they giving the pharmacists an extra month?
Are they worried about losing them?

I assumed it was being done as a way to "buffer" any chance of pharmacists missing a day or so or work due to potential associated side effects to vaccines - similar to what hospitals were doing with doctors and nurses earlier this year. If they all go at once, there's a chance too many will be out in any given area/department and unable to staff pharmacies.

[Default]

No. But I did see some chatter about how a fully approved vaccine might allow a doctor to go "off label" and give it to an 11 year old. I doubt it would happen widely, but if I had a kid that was going to be 12 in the next six months, I'd likely be calling my pediatrician and asking.

I was about to send this to my wife, but then I'm thinking his birthday is in 16 days... we probably couldn't get in before then anyway. I guess I should be happy that it could be harder to get him an appt for the vaccine because people are moving on it again.

My grandniece got her first shot and went to school the next day, maskless. Went to get her second shot, and when they ask her how she was feeling, she said she'd had a headache for several days and oh yeah, she couldn't smell or taste anything. Yeah you're right she caught covid. yay Georgia!
I would get him a shot now instead of waiting 16 days.

[Unagi]

Why are they giving the pharmacists an extra month?
Are they worried about losing them?

I assumed it was being done as a way to "buffer" any chance of pharmacists missing a day or so or work due to potential associated side effects to vaccines - similar to what hospitals were doing with doctors and nurses earlier this year. If they all go at once, there's a chance too many will be out in any given area/department and unable to staff pharmacies.

Ahhh. Ok. I hadn’t rethought of that ‘in an orderly fashion’ angle, that was needed for the reasons you stated...

[Smoove_B]

I'm astounded it would be necessary - that there aren't already a majority of pharmacists vaccinated - but this is America and nothing should surprise me anymore.

My grandniece got her first shot and went to school the next day, maskless. Went to get her second shot, and when they ask her how she was feeling, she said she'd had a headache for several days and oh yeah, she couldn't smell or taste anything. Yeah you're right she caught covid. yay Georgia!
I would get him a shot now instead of waiting 16 days.

So she spent the last 15+ months protected but 1st day back to school was exposed because of a lack of mask mandates. I wish this story was unique or rare but unfortunately it's unfolding the same way. All that kids have sacrificed, all that they dealt with last year, completely pissed away by adults screaming for mask freedom. Unreal. So sorry to hear it.

[Smoove_B]

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1430187154819457027

Who’s been vaccinated in the US, per @NBCNews
poll:

Adults: 69%
Men: 67%
Women: 71%
-
18-34: 63%
35-49: 58%
50-64: 71%
65+: 86%
-
Urban: 79%
Suburban: 67%
Rural: 52%
-
Democrats: 88%
Independents: 60%
Republicans: 55%
-
13% say they won’t get vaccinated under any circumstance

There's an associated article with additional demographic breakdowns.

EDIT: But I'm tryin, Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I'm legit shocked (albeit pleasantly so) by this.

https://twitter.com/BrodyAMiller/status ... 9910328336

#LSU announces it will require proof of vaccination or a negative COVID PCR test taken within 72 hours in order to attend a game in Tiger Stadium for those 12 or older.

https://twitter.com/DrNorrisCamacho/sta ... 18466?s=20

[Isgrimnur]

[Blackhawk]

That's really awful. Whenever I can't sleep, I turn to

At least edit the link out...

[Skinypupy]

https://twitter.com/DrNorrisCamacho/sta ... 18466?s=20

That gave me a literal

Also...oof.

https://twitter.com/KrutikaAmin/status/ ... 1502698500

Preventable unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost U.S. taxpayers and workers over $2 Billion dollars in June and July alone.

This is a conservative low-end estimate. We didn't include outpatient or follow-up treatment costs. See brief for details: https://healthsystemtracker.org/brief/u ... of-dollars

[El Guapo]

JFC.

https://twitter.com/meganmmenchaca/stat ... 8025475074

[Jaymon]

By that logic, its OK to bring a weapon to school and wave it around willy nilly. Doesn't matter the danger to other students, you can't ask me to leave, because that behavior could be a sign of mental disability.

[Smoove_B]

That UTAustin tweet has an update, fwiw. I understand what they're trying to do and it makes sense. But without a masking mandate at the college, I fully support instructors that don't want to show up. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Speaking of insane:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 1559763970

At least 11,851 students and 2,610 employees have tested positive for COVID throughout the 15 largest school districts in Florida since the start of school.

At least another 29,801 students and staff have been quarantined or put on 'stay home' directives.

So much Regeneron. So much.

[raydude]

JFC.

https://twitter.com/meganmmenchaca/stat ... 8025475074

But - can they ask the possible infected person to stay in the classroom while everyone else including the teacher leaves? I don't think that's the same thing legally

[LawBeefaroni]

By that logic, its OK to bring a weapon to school and wave it around willy nilly. Doesn't matter the danger to other students, you can't ask me to leave, because that behavior could be a sign of mental disability.

Weapons can be banned. Not sure of UT Austin's policy.


This is a an area if the ADA that needs to be looked at. No doubt UTA got word of someone threatening to or actually suing for this.

[Isgrimnur]

UT Campus Carry

[Smoove_B]

This is a an area if the ADA that needs to be looked at. No doubt UTA got word of someone threatening to or actually suing for this.

Go back and read the subtweets. There was a reasonable clarification provided.

[El Guapo]

This is a an area if the ADA that needs to be looked at. No doubt UTA got word of someone threatening to or actually suing for this.

Go back and read the subtweets. There was a reasonable clarification provided.

Well, I wouldn't call it a "reasonable clarification" so much as a complete rewrite that is now reasonable. If the rewrite is what they meant originally, then they have terrible writers.

https://twitter.com/meganmmenchaca/stat ... 7207834628

[LawBeefaroni]

UT Campus Carry

So waiving gun around - not allowed. No ADA necessary.

Campus carry requires that handguns remain concealed at all times with no exceptions, and if a handgun is visible, however briefly, it may be a violation of university policy and law. Notify law enforcement via 911 and UTPD will arrive and assess the situation. Persons who violate these laws and policies are subject to penalties and fines in addition to disciplinary action imposed by the university.

[Smoove_B]

Well, I wouldn't call it a "reasonable clarification" so much as a complete rewrite that is now reasonable. If the rewrite is what they meant originally, then they have terrible writers.

I was given a 5 page guidance document and it did not include anything about how to deal with this situation. Now I feel like I should ask.

[Smoove_B]

Chicago - all city workers must be vaccinated:

Mayor Lori Lightfoot charged forward Wednesday with plans for a vaccine mandate for all city of Chicago employees.

The official announcement comes after Mayor Lightfoot earlier this week announced her intention to issue a mandate for city workers.

Mayor Lightfoot said Wednesday all city workers need to be vaccinated by October 15.

...

Lightfoot's earlier announcement earlier this week brought some pushback from unions representing city workers, including the Chicago Fraternal Order of Police.
...

The Fraternal Order of Police has already threatened to file a lawsuit challenging any mandate with the sergeants, lieutenants and captains unions expected to join the fight.

EDIT: Related

https://twitter.com/createcraig/status/ ... 1350926342

NEW: NYC's largest police union plans to sue if COVID vaccine is mandated for NYPD.

"If the City attempts to impose a vaccine mandate on PBA members, we will take legal action to defend our members' right to make such personal medical decisions."

[Smoove_B]

Delta airlines raising healthcare premiums for workers that refuse to vaccinate:

Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian notified employees Wednesday that they will face $200 monthly increases on their health insurance premiums starting Nov. 1 if they aren’t vaccinated against Covid-19, citing steep costs to cover employees who are hospitalized with the virus.

Unvaccinated employees will face other restrictions, including indoor masking effective immediately and weekly Covid-19 tests starting Sept. 12, the Atlanta-based airline said in announcing new Covid policies for employees.

More.

[El Guapo]

A friend of mine who is vaccinated and works for a hospital in PA (I think as a nurse) posted on FB that she's opposed to mandating that nurses be vaccinated because they're already drastically overworked (something like an 8:1 patient to nurse ratio) because some portion of the nurses will quit rather than be vaccinated, which will lead to more overwork and to patients dying essentially of neglect.

[LordMortis]

A friend of mine who is vaccinated and works for a hospital in PA (I think as a nurse) posted on FB that she's opposed to mandating that nurses be vaccinated because they're already drastically overworked (something like an 8:1 patient to nurse ratio) because some portion of the nurses will quit rather than be vaccinated, which will lead to more overwork and to patients dying essentially of neglect.

Sadly, I believe her concern is grounded in reality, whether she is vaccinated or not. [Zaxxon]we're fucked[/Zaxxon]

[Daehawk]

How can they be a nurse and not believe in medicine?

[LawBeefaroni]

A friend of mine who is vaccinated and works for a hospital in PA (I think as a nurse) posted on FB that she's opposed to mandating that nurses be vaccinated because they're already drastically overworked (something like an 8:1 patient to nurse ratio) because some portion of the nurses will quit rather than be vaccinated, which will lead to more overwork and to patients dying essentially of neglect.

That's crazy. Proceeding from the assumption that vaccines work, and given that most mandates are for mid to late October, there is time to prepare. OTOH, if nurses are allowed to go unvaccinated, they risk the health of their patients and themselves and you'll still have labor issues when they get sick and have to not work for 2 weeks minimum or for eternity max. I can't get over the fact that they worked last year when there was no vaccine but they'll quit now because there is and they have to take it.

[El Guapo]

A friend of mine who is vaccinated and works for a hospital in PA (I think as a nurse) posted on FB that she's opposed to mandating that nurses be vaccinated because they're already drastically overworked (something like an 8:1 patient to nurse ratio) because some portion of the nurses will quit rather than be vaccinated, which will lead to more overwork and to patients dying essentially of neglect.

That's crazy. Proceeding from the assumption that vaccines work, and given that most mandates are for mid to late October, there is time to prepare. OTOH, if nurses are allowed to go unvaccinated, they risk the health of their patients and themselves and you'll still have labor issues when they get sick and have to not work for 2 weeks minimum or for eternity max. I can't get over the fact that they worked last year when there was no vaccine but they'll quit now because there is and they have to take it.

Her calculus in the short term (currently overworked --> vaccine mandate --> some % of nurses quit --> even more overworked --> patients die because nurses can't effectively tend to them all) may well be correct, or at least it's plausible. Which sucks.

I did raise the counter-issue of won't the hospital lose some # of nurse workdays anyway due to quarantine requirements and sick nurses, and also that more vaccine mandates in the community means fewer patients to treat. We'll see her resposne.

She's generally not crazy, though, so I was curious to see her post.

[Formix]

A friend of mine who is vaccinated and works for a hospital in PA (I think as a nurse) posted on FB that she's opposed to mandating that nurses be vaccinated because they're already drastically overworked (something like an 8:1 patient to nurse ratio) because some portion of the nurses will quit rather than be vaccinated, which will lead to more overwork and to patients dying essentially of neglect.

That's crazy. Proceeding from the assumption that vaccines work, and given that most mandates are for mid to late October, there is time to prepare. OTOH, if nurses are allowed to go unvaccinated, they risk the health of their patients and themselves and you'll still have labor issues when they get sick and have to not work for 2 weeks minimum or for eternity max. I can't get over the fact that they worked last year when there was no vaccine but they'll quit now because there is and they have to take it.

Her calculus in the short term (currently overworked --> vaccine mandate --> some % of nurses quit --> even more overworked --> patients die because nurses can't effectively tend to them all) may well be correct, or at least it's plausible. Which sucks.

I did raise the counter-issue of won't the hospital lose some # of nurse workdays anyway due to quarantine requirements and sick nurses, and also that more vaccine mandates in the community means fewer patients to treat. We'll see her resposne.

She's generally not crazy, though, so I was curious to see her post.

I think this is completely accurate. We're estimating we're going to lose 100-150 nurses in the next few weeks since we mandated vaccines. Personally, I don't feel like you can go to work at the hot dog factory, and then one day say you suddenly think folks shouldn't eat meat, you refuse to touch the meat, but you still think you should be allowed to have your job. If you don't believe in vaccines, science, and medicine, then maybe nursing is not the career for you.

[Default]

My ex has to teach a full class of 20 3-4 year-olds. They are supposed to socially distance and wear mask except during meals, where they're supposed to sit at one table, pass food with bare hands and eat unmasked. So basically it's an impossible task, with contradictory rules, and they expect this to fly somehow.

[malchior]

People are losing their damn minds.

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpo ... 9860807683

[LawBeefaroni]

A friend of mine who is vaccinated and works for a hospital in PA (I think as a nurse) posted on FB that she's opposed to mandating that nurses be vaccinated because they're already drastically overworked (something like an 8:1 patient to nurse ratio) because some portion of the nurses will quit rather than be vaccinated, which will lead to more overwork and to patients dying essentially of neglect.

That's crazy. Proceeding from the assumption that vaccines work, and given that most mandates are for mid to late October, there is time to prepare. OTOH, if nurses are allowed to go unvaccinated, they risk the health of their patients and themselves and you'll still have labor issues when they get sick and have to not work for 2 weeks minimum or for eternity max. I can't get over the fact that they worked last year when there was no vaccine but they'll quit now because there is and they have to take it.

Her calculus in the short term (currently overworked --> vaccine mandate --> some % of nurses quit --> even more overworked --> patients die because nurses can't effectively tend to them all) may well be correct, or at least it's plausible. Which sucks.

I did raise the counter-issue of won't the hospital lose some # of nurse workdays anyway due to quarantine requirements and sick nurses, and also that more vaccine mandates in the community means fewer patients to treat. We'll see her resposne.

She's generally not crazy, though, so I was curious to see her post.

It's probably frustration. We aren't currently being overwhelmed here but there is a lot of of COVID fatigue and the idea of another wave just sits like a pending gut punch all day for the clinical teams. If we were in the middle of one I could see the idea of losing any staff being a tipping point. But the solution is a simple one. Get the shot. If nurses won't do that, it's not really on admin or policy makers.

[Unagi]

People are losing their damn minds.

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpo ... 9860807683

I’m not allowed to read that article.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/flor ... 5.html?amp

[disarm]

The vaccine deadline is rapidly approaching for the healthcare system in which I work, but they haven't said much about compliance success. They've made it very clear that getting vaccinated is readily available, with a station for employees right inside the main entrance that everyone is forced to use. I have no idea how many staff (nurses and other) are holding out.

The interesting thing in CT is that all the hospitals have banded together on this issue, as well as most places in surrounding states. If you choose not to get vaccinated, you might as well pick a different career or move to another part of the country, because you won't be finding another job nearby. I can't image being so stubborn that you're willing to go that far, but...

[YellowKing]

Yeah it's really hard for me to grasp being so hard-headed that you'd sacrifice your job (not to mention your life) over some stance. I'm a pretty easy-going path-of-least-resistance guy. If I run into a rule I don't like, I may question it once but then shrug and move on with my life. That's what so frustrating for me - I can't get myself into that mindset.

[LawBeefaroni]

People are losing their damn minds.

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpo ... 9860807683

I’m not allowed to read that article.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/flor ... 5.html?amp

He's a known rabid antivaxxer and he and his daughter have been making the rounds on media and social media. Every day they try to go to school, livestreamed naturally, and every day she is refused.

Emboldened by "fame" and support on socials. Mob mentality driven bully.