The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: $iljanus, LawBeefaroni

Post Reply
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 28522
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Unagi »

YellowKing wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:08 am For most of the day yesterday while the Jack Smith doc should have been top news, CNN's headline article was about the three challenges the Harris campaign was now facing (Middle East, dock strike, and hurricane). Most damning list of crimes ever revealed about a presidential candidate, but sure let's talk about all the challenges the Harris campaign faces. :roll:


Here are a bunch of horrible things that Trump has personal ownership of, and total complete responsibility for and control over.

vs.

Here are a few things that the world has thrown at Harris and she must be a little to blame, right?
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 22138
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Grifman »

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 46616
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Blackhawk »

There are times when I can't help thinking that while the internet is one of the best things to happen to humanity, it is also one of the worst things to happen to society. We might have been better off without it.
What doesn't kill me makes me stranger.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 56736
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Smoove_B »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:32 am There are times when I can't help thinking that while the internet is one of the best things to happen to humanity, it is also one of the worst things to happen to society. We might have been better off without it.
Every day. I think about this every day. We needed the internet. We were not ready for the internet.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 17211
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Zarathud »

We need the internet, not social media. Worst are the algorithms which push destructive and anti-social behavior.
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -Terry Pratchett, The Truth
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 72174
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by LordMortis »

We were quickly ready for the Internet. We were never ready for the anonymous democratization of the Internet. You could see that in usenet. I dunno about things Prodigy. I never had and experience with that end of things. Don't think you can turn back the clock, but I'd join an Internet 2 (3?) with a gated community.
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 46616
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Blackhawk »

Zarathud wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:41 am We need the internet, not social media. Worst are the algorithms which push destructive and anti-social behavior.
I'd say that the problem of creating customized nation-wide echo chambers predates modern social media. It was a result of immediate feedback on headlines (number of clicks and engagement) turning news media into click-generating ideology hubs that rewarded emotional sensationalism over truth. Social media just picked up and amplified what was already happening.
What doesn't kill me makes me stranger.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 85616
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Isgrimnur »

It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 6456
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Kurth »

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:32 am
Blackhawk wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:32 am There are times when I can't help thinking that while the internet is one of the best things to happen to humanity, it is also one of the worst things to happen to society. We might have been better off without it.
Every day. I think about this every day. We needed the internet. We were not ready for the internet.
Yep. Every day. Sometimes twice.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 72174
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by LordMortis »

Today, October 5th

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6362884281112

Everyone else for the last four days including FEMA after TFG claim and while he doubles down

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... rcna173955

Also, didn't TFG want to cut FEMA or is my memory off? Part of his "we can always get it, if we need it" plan like his CDC response cuts.

Oh, and this guy? Fuck this guy!

Enlarge Image
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 46616
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Blackhawk »

I sometimes also wonder if Musk is also gunning for the job as the next MAGA mascot.
What doesn't kill me makes me stranger.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 30316
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Holman »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 5:01 pm I sometimes also wonder if Musk is also gunning for the job as the next MAGA mascot.
Trump has promised him a role in his administration.

Musk will never be president (he wasn't born a US citizen), but he clearly loves the idea of being an influential presence. He clearly has a weird messiah complex, and *saving humanity* (on Musk's specific terms) is more important than the burdens of office.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 56736
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Smoove_B »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 5:01 pm I sometimes also wonder if Musk is also gunning for the job as the next MAGA mascot.
He's at the rally right now in Butler PA. Not sure if he's speaking or just looking to be seen so close to dear leader.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 30316
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Holman »

If you're not on Twitter, you should know that Musk pushes right-wing conspiracy theories and declares that Trump *must* be re-elected pretty much all day long. And because he controls the algorithm, everyone on Twitter sees his tweets.

Most big economic players hedge their bets and attempt to position themselves for whatever the next election might bring. Not Musk, though. The overall impression is that he is absolutely desperate for a Trump re-election. I wonder why.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 30316
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Holman »

Musk is speaking at Trump's rally now.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 22138
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Grifman »

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:32 am
Blackhawk wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:32 am There are times when I can't help thinking that while the internet is one of the best things to happen to humanity, it is also one of the worst things to happen to society. We might have been better off without it.
Every day. I think about this every day. We needed the internet. We were not ready for the internet.
Same here. But it sort of makes sense. Conspiracy theories aren't anything new. The Sybelline Prophecies of ancient Rome, the witch crazes and the blood libel stories about the Jews in the Middle Ages, the Knights Templar stories spread by the French King used to bring them down, these are all examples from the past. We like to think that we moderns are different, that we aren't prey to this sort of stuff, but we are. Despite the growth of knowledge, people are still people with all that flaws that have been there since the beginning.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 46616
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Blackhawk »

3.5 billion years of evolution, 300,000 years as 'humans', 6,000 years as 'civilized', and only about 500 years of being 'modern.'

Our brains are still mostly wired for the 3.5 billion, and most of the rest is in the 285,000 phase. We're aren't 'evolved' by civilization, and if anything, we've rewired evolution into a chaotic version of itself that we won't be seeing the effects of for a long, long time.

In other words, we're still cavorting beasties.
What doesn't kill me makes me stranger.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 45474
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Kraken »

Holman wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 6:42 pm Most big economic players hedge their bets and attempt to position themselves for whatever the next election might bring. Not Musk, though. The overall impression is that he is absolutely desperate for a Trump re-election. I wonder why.
Apparently he doesn't need to sell Teslas anymore. Republicans don't buy EVs, and the Tesla brand has become toxic to liberals. Way to alienate your customer base, Leon!
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 15699
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Max Peck »

There's still the rest of world. For example, he's only scratched the surface of the Chechen Warlord EV Self-Driving Technical market.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 22138
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Grifman »

Why this guy is still on CNN after this amazes me:

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 22138
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Grifman »

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 22138
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Grifman »

FAFO:

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 9484
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Alefroth »

How much was the settlement?
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 72174
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by LordMortis »

Fair and reasonable?

https://apnews.com/article/ruby-freeman ... 6da14b094e
The lawsuit against The Gateway Pundit, its owner Jim Hoft and his brother Joe Hoft “has been resolved to the mutual satisfaction of the parties through a fair and reasonable settlement,” lawyers for Ruby Freeman and Wandrea “Shaye” Moss said Friday.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 85616
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Isgrimnur »

Los Angeles Times editorials editor resigns after newspaper withholds presidential endorsement
The editorials editor of the Los Angeles Times has resigned after the newspaper's owner blocked the editorial board's plans to endorse Democratic Vice President Kamala Harris for president, a journalism trade publication reported Wednesday.

Mariel Garza told the Columbia Journalism Review in an interview that she resigned because the Times was remaining silent on the contest in "dangerous times."

"I am resigning because I want to make it clear that I am not OK with us being silent," Garza said. "In dangerous times, honest people need to stand up. This is how I'm standing up."

In a post on the social media platform X that did not directly mention the resignation, LA Times owner Patrick Soon-Shiong said the board was asked to do a factual analysis of the policies of Harris and Republican former President Donald Trump during their time at the White House.

Additionally, "The board was asked to provide (its) understanding of the policies and plans enunciated by the candidates during this campaign and its potential effect on the nation in the next four years," he wrote. "In this way, with this clear and non-partisan information side-by-side, our readers could decide who would be worthy of being president for the next four years."

Soon-Shiong, who bought the paper in 2018, said the board "chose to remain silent and I accepted their decision."

Garza told the Columbia Journalism Review that the board had intended to endorse Harris and she had drafted the outline of a proposed editorial.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 45474
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Kraken »

Freedom of the press belongs to those who own the presses. Bully for her for not playing along.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 43379
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by GreenGoo »

Had a gentleman comment on how media has lost all credibility to a former reporter in a virtual meeting. It was awkward for a number of reasons.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 85616
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Isgrimnur »

'Washington Post' won't endorse in White House race for first time since 1980s
The Washington Post has decided not to make a presidential endorsement for the first time in 36 years, the publisher and CEO announced Friday.

"We are returning to our roots of not endorsing presidential candidates," Will Lewis wrote in an opinion piece published on the paper's website. He referenced the paper's policy in the decades prior to 1976, when, following the Watergate scandal that the Post broke, it endorsed Democratic nominee Jimmy Carter. The last time the Post did not endorse a presidential candidate in the general election was 1988, according to a search of its archives.

Colleagues learned the news from the editorial page editor, David Shipley, at a tense meeting shortly before Lewis' announcement. The meeting was characterized by someone with direct knowledge of discussions on condition of anonymity to speak about internal matters.

Shipley said that he told other editorial board leaders Thursday that management had decided there would be no endorsement, though he has known for weeks. He added that he "owns" this decision. The reason he cited was to create "independent space" where the newspaper does not tell people for whom to vote.

Colleagues were said to be "shocked" and uniformly negative.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 56736
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Smoove_B »

What an odd time to decide this.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 15506
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by ImLawBoy »

This certainly seems like the kind of low stakes election that it makes sense to stay on the sidelines for. Democracy dies in darkness, indeed.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 85616
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Isgrimnur »

Lewis held the same role at Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal; served as the editor of the London-based Telegraph, which is closely allied with the Tory party; and was a consultant to Conservative Boris Johnson when Johnson was U.K. prime minister.

Colleagues have told NPR that Bezos selected Lewis in part for his ability to get along with powerful conservative figures, including Murdoch.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 56736
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Smoove_B »

Well, they did receive a Pulitzer in 2022 for their coverage of January 6th, so maybe they figured they just can't do any more and should stop.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 42246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by El Guapo »

Well this certainly bodes well for the media's ability to act as a robust check on a second Trump administration.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 30316
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Holman »

Prominent editors at both the LA Times and the Washington Post have announced their resignations over this.

This could be the end of these papers' national statures, as it should be.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 30316
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Holman »

The Philadelphia Inquirer endorsed Harris today.

Obviously the Inky doesn't have the status of the LA Times or WaPo, but what it has is independence: the former owner actually gave away the paper to a non-profit foundation. It has had its ups and downs, but it is not beholden to a wealthy owner.

This should be the journalistic norm.

(I also have a couple of former students working as reporters at the Inquirer.)
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 42246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 3:37 pm Prominent editors at both the LA Times and the Washington Post have announced their resignations over this.

This could be the end of these papers' national statures, as it should be.
If Harris wins, this will be forgotten. If Trump wins, this tells us that Bezos will make the Post play nice with Trump.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 20902
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Jaymann »

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 3:37 pm Prominent editors at both the LA Times and the Washington Post have announced their resignations over this.

This could be the end of these papers' national statures, as it should be.
They could always try to set up shop in France.

/ducks
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Leave no bacon behind.
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7938
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by gbasden »

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 3:37 pm Prominent editors at both the LA Times and the Washington Post have announced their resignations over this.

This could be the end of these papers' national statures, as it should be.
I've been holding on to my Post subscription, but they can go fuck themselves. Cancelled.
User avatar
Archinerd
Posts: 6994
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:18 am
Location: Shikaakwa

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Archinerd »

gbasden wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 7:06 pm
Holman wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2024 3:37 pm Prominent editors at both the LA Times and the Washington Post have announced their resignations over this.

This could be the end of these papers' national statures, as it should be.
I've been holding on to my Post subscription, but they can go fuck themselves. Cancelled.
+1

If they sort their shit out and decide that they actually do like Democracy and a Free Press, then I'll reconsider.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 30316
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

Post by Holman »

I've cancelled too.

The more complicated part is to find out where the serious and legitimate journalists have gone and to subscribe and support their work.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
Post Reply