Octopus Overlords

Little Raven wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:37 pm

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:33 pmGenocide has a specific meaning, and you dilute the horror of the word by applying it to what Trump did.

Yeah, even if 3 million Americans end up dying from COVID....that's 1% of our population. That's nowhere remotely near genocidal levels.

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:36 pmThe only medium term hope is that Trump at some point in the next 4 years either dies or is indicted for some sort of tax/financial fraud which then will absorb most of his limited intellectual capacity. Otherwise, he will continue his grip on the party.

Jaymann wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:35 pm At this point my biggest worry is what happens on January 6, when Congress holds a session to certify the electoral college vote, presided over by Mike Pence, and some seditious bastard makes a motion to nullify the electoral college vote. I saw previous sessions, presided by Al Gore and Joe Biden, where any such BS talk was slammed down. What happens if Pence allows a vote on the motion?

malchior wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:24 pmThat isn't even a criticism of the system because maybe no system could but this system encouraged the behavior in its reliance in norms.

Jaymann wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:35 pm At this point my biggest worry is what happens on January 6, when Congress holds a session to certify the electoral college vote, presided over by Mike Pence, and some seditious bastard makes a motion to nullify the electoral college vote. I saw previous sessions, presided by Al Gore and Joe Biden, where any such BS talk was slammed down. What happens if Pence allows a vote on the motion?

El Guapo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:41 pm

Jaymann wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:35 pm At this point my biggest worry is what happens on January 6, when Congress holds a session to certify the electoral college vote, presided over by Mike Pence, and some seditious bastard makes a motion to nullify the electoral college vote. I saw previous sessions, presided by Al Gore and Joe Biden, where any such BS talk was slammed down. What happens if Pence allows a vote on the motion?

Apparently you need a majority of both chambers to challenge a slate of electors. Republicans don't have the House, so doesn't seem like that would ultimately go anywhere. Though they could delay things and create a spectacle, so I fully expect that to happen.

Grifman wrote:Genocide has a specific meaning, and you dilute the horror of the word by applying it to what Trump did. He was criminally negligent, IMO, but that's not even close to genocide.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:06 pmOr - hear me out on this - we start jailing and hanging seditious politicians.

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:50 pm No Standing.

Little Raven wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:17 pmI'm honestly struggling to come up with an actionable indictment. What they're doing is awful...but I'm not sure it's illegal.

U.S. Constitution, Article VI, clause 3 wrote:The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution...

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:06 pm

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:36 pmThe only medium term hope is that Trump at some point in the next 4 years either dies or is indicted for some sort of tax/financial fraud which then will absorb most of his limited intellectual capacity. Otherwise, he will continue his grip on the party.

Or - hear me out on this - we start jailing and hanging seditious politicians. Aggressive, sure. But this is getting absurd. Calling for the invalidation of votes for "political expediency" is unacceptable and even flirting with the idea should be hammered down. I'm confident in saying revolutions have started over less. That these morons want to casually toss out ideas antithetical to their sworn oath and our democracy cannot stand. If we allow this to go unchecked, we're just punting to the next crisis and I'm confident the next one will be worse.

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:56 pmThe legal theories here are of course ridiculous but are not in and of themselves “seditious” because the Republicans are using the courts, which is an entirely legal manner in which to proceed. It would only be sedition if they started operating extra legally, setting up their own courts or laws, or using armed force to oppose the legal authorities. As long as they go to court and abide by the court decision, you can’t legally say they are guilty of sedition, even though “in spirit” they are.

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:14 pm Grateful they didn’t make us stress about it over the weekend.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:11 pm

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:56 pmThe legal theories here are of course ridiculous but are not in and of themselves “seditious” because the Republicans are using the courts, which is an entirely legal manner in which to proceed. It would only be sedition if they started operating extra legally, setting up their own courts or laws, or using armed force to oppose the legal authorities. As long as they go to court and abide by the court decision, you can’t legally say they are guilty of sedition, even though “in spirit” they are.

That's...not a take I've heard or seen, but I'll run with it. Let's go after the seditious lawyers then that agreed to file these documents with the courts. Better: the lawyers that filed these suits should be disbarred, stripped of their authority and removed from any public office they hold.

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:37 pm No real difference between the lawyers and those that hire them. Seriously, if this was so legally clear and could be done so easily, then why isnt it being done? Ask your self that question.

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:48 pm The TX GOP seems conflicted they say they support the Constitution but suggest secession is the answer:

[...Chairman Allen West...]

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:47 pm

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:37 pm No real difference between the lawyers and those that hire them. Seriously, if this was so legally clear and could be done so easily, then why isnt it being done? Ask your self that question.

Because in the age of Trump, no politician is held to account? I guess I could start there. Remember what they did to Al Franken? Not saying it it was good or bad, but I'm pretty confident in saying this is demonstrably worse. He should have just simply re-registered as a (R) - he would have been fine.

Powell describes Spyder in court filings as a former “Military Intelligence expert,” and his testimony is offered to support one of her central claims. In a declaration filed in four states, Spyder alleges that publicly available data about server traffic shows that voting systems in the United States were “certainly compromised by rogue actors, such as Iran and China.”

Records show that Merritt is an Army veteran and that he enrolled in a training program at the 305th Military Intelligence Battalion, the unit he cites in his declaration. But he never completed the entry-level training course, according to Meredith Mingledorff, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Army Intelligence Center of Excellence, which includes the battalion.

“He kept washing out of courses,” said Mingledorff, citing his education records. “He’s not an intelligence analyst.”

His separation papers, which he provided to The Post, make no mention of intelligence training. They show that he spent the bulk of his decade in the Army as a wheeled vehicle mechanic. He deployed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where he said he worked in security and route clearance. He held the rank of specialist when he was honorably discharged in 2013, having received several commendations.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:01 pmWe can quibble over the details, but I'm going to say signing documents trying to invalidate the votes of millions of Americans is magnitudes of order worse than what Franken answered for.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:01 pm I'm not moving any goalposts - I'm just pointing out that magically Al Franken was held to account for his actions and in doing so, resigned. We can quibble over the details, but I'm going to say signing documents trying to invalidate the votes of millions of Americans is magnitudes of order worse than what Franken answered for.

I refuse - refuse to believe that what they did is a shoulder shrug moment. If it is, then we're done here in the colonies; turn off the lights. Or we're headed for civil war. Maybe both.

Just one time - once - I want consequences for this folks. As a citizen, I'm offended. As a public servant, I'm offended. As a public official, I'm offended.

Little Raven wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:41 pm If it makes you feel any better, though, Smoove - Ken Paxton has almost certainly done several illegal things, and since he didn't deliver for Trump, I'd be surprised if Trump decides to pardon him. I think there's a very good chance he ends up behind bars - the FBI has not been subtle about hinting that they're on to him.

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:48 pm The TX GOP seems conflicted they say they support the Constitution but suggest secession is the answer:

https://twitter.com/adamkelsey/status/1 ... 64515?s=21

Kraken wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:59 pmI wonder if the Union would try to preserve itself again, or just say good riddance to bad trash. Enjoy your Gilead.

Holman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:06 pm This will be lost in the SC news, but it's fun to note that Sidney Powell's military intelligence mole "Spyder" failed his courses and was actually a wheeled-vehicle mechanic in the Army.

Powell describes Spyder in court filings as a former “Military Intelligence expert,” and his testimony is offered to support one of her central claims. In a declaration filed in four states, Spyder alleges that publicly available data about server traffic shows that voting systems in the United States were “certainly compromised by rogue actors, such as Iran and China.”

Records show that Merritt is an Army veteran and that he enrolled in a training program at the 305th Military Intelligence Battalion, the unit he cites in his declaration. But he never completed the entry-level training course, according to Meredith Mingledorff, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Army Intelligence Center of Excellence, which includes the battalion.

“He kept washing out of courses,” said Mingledorff, citing his education records. “He’s not an intelligence analyst.”

His separation papers, which he provided to The Post, make no mention of intelligence training. They show that he spent the bulk of his decade in the Army as a wheeled vehicle mechanic. He deployed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where he said he worked in security and route clearance. He held the rank of specialist when he was honorably discharged in 2013, having received several commendations.

Ten years in the Army and didn't make corporal?