Octopus Overlords

Zaxxon wrote:

El Guapo wrote:JFC

https://twitter.com/sangerkatz/status/1 ... 5113474049

Welcome. Stay awhile.

Stay awhile and listen!

I wonder if anyone has the guts to say to Trump's face that it wouldn't be this bad if Obama was still president.

RunningMn9 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:57 pm

Yojimbo wrote:You may come from a place where more government is always better.

I have a front row seat to the federal govt shit show every day of my life.

More government isn’t always better. The federal government isn’t always the answer.

But sometimes the federal government is the only answer. This is one of those times. The federal government is the only possible entity that can bring the necessary resources to bear to address these kinds of things.

Does it mean they will be successful? No. But they are still the only game in town.

An old quote from West Wing comes to mind:

There are times when we’re fifty states and there are times when we’re one country and have national needs. And the way I know this is that Florida didn’t fight Germany in World War Two, or establish civil rights.

From the guy who wrote the other two medium articles I posted, this one focusing on the US.

Coronavirus: Out of Many, One
What Should the US Federal Government and the States Do to Fight the Coronavirus

Here’s what we’re going to cover today, with a lot of data, charts and sources:

What’s the situation in the US and its states
Why the coronavirus should be a bipartisan issue
The economics of controlling the virus
Which decisions should be left to the federal government or to states

Here’s what you’ll take away:

The coronavirus is growing everywhere in the US.
Some states are on their way to controlling it.
Others have massive outbreaks that make China’s outbreak pale in comparison.
Many are unprepared, and will suffer some of the worst outbreaks.
All voters care about this, Democrats and Republicans.
Democrats were hit first.
But Republicans have more to lose.
They’re older and more likely to die.
Most hesitation comes from the perceived cost of suppressing the virus.
Fortunately, it’s cheaper to suppress it than to let it run loose.
We should do it.
But right now, states are left fending for themselves. It’s a mess.
They are competing against each other instead of collaborating.
They might be forced to seal their borders with each other.
There is a role for states and a role for the federal government. The federal government coordinates, the states execute.
If both step up, we will save lives and increase the GDP.

If only there was a way we could visit an alternate timeline to see whether a quick response from the Federal Government, with all the weight and power that conveys, would actually result in fewer deaths, quicker development of a vaccine, and no closures whatsoever?

Oh, wait, we don't have to travel to an alternate universe! We can just look at 11 years ago!

Moat_Man wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:09 pm I wonder if anyone has the guts to say to Trump's face that it wouldn't be this bad if Obama was still president.

Trump's face says it's Obama's fault that it's this bad. Obamacare destroyed the health care system.

Yojimbo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:28 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:45 pm Now everyone needs a shitload more PPE all at the same time. You cannot manage this at the local or even state level. Not without massive shortfalls based on things like price or local logistics.

If you can't manage it at the state level (if this would be impossible), why could you manage well it at the federal level? The state of NY's GDP was over 1.5 trillion last year. That is more than 50% more that the federal GDP in 1970. CA is even bigger. Plus, there are 50 states who know intimately the situations on the ground in their locales.

Because you get 50 states who are in direct competition with each other for a scarce resource. As we have seen, this results in bidding wars that allocate resources by budget rather than necessity. This is exactly where the Fed gov should be involved. And being a global pandemic, you have states competing, and having to deal with, foreign countries. Again, a job for the Fed gov.

Yojimbo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:14 pm Yes, but expecting civil servants who are normally tasked with collecting taxes and regulating industries to keep a stockpile of the PPE items that the experts (doctors) don't even bother to keep a stockpile of a special kind of foolishness in my eyes. Can the government help coordinate the manufacture and distribution of PPE - yes. Did they get really, really good at that overnight? - no. Is is fair to expect them to get really, really good in a few days/weeks?

As has already been mentioned, no one needed to get ramped up overnight, because the infrastructure and expertise was already there.

Yojimbo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:32 pm

Unagi wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:24 pm Are you prepared admit Trump disbanded a White House office focused on pandemic preparedness?

If this is for me, yes, I do understand that the National Security Council’s global health security office was disbanded. Seems like a hideous move in hindsight.

No, it was a terrible move in foresight. C'mon.

Yojimbo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:55 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:38 pm

Yojimbo wrote:If this is for me, yes, I do understand that the National Security Council’s global health security office was disbanded. Seems like a hideous move in hindsight.

Was a hideous move AT THE TIME. Because having a pandemic response team is the sort of thing that must be in place before the pandemic, in order to respond to it.

Did that office stockpile 500,000 level 4 bio-hazard suits and the incoming POTUS destroyed them all? - No. If your argument is that we would be better prepared I think it is very sound. If you argument is that we would not be having shortages right now I cannot agree. A few more bureaucrats arguing about how to respond sooner seems that it would be better than nothing. But how much better is open for debate in my book.

No one is arguing that a competent federal response would have led to a perfect world with no shortages and minimal virus. What people are arguing is that it would be worlds better. Anyone looking at this through anything but a partisan or ideological lens should be able to agree on this.

Yojimbo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:20 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:01 pm I think the point is that we'd be--clearly, inarguably--far better off. For a crisis that's cost the US historically large sums of money and lives, the disbanding of that department saved an amount of $$ that's far less than a rounding error relative to the injury sustained by its disbanding.

It's legacy-defining in its terribleness, and this equation was obvious at the time since the math was so clear even if one assumed we never saw a pandemic nearly this serious.

You may come from a place where more government is always better. This is what you are arguing above, logically. I come from a place where government is as likely to mess things up as they are to fix things (government being comprised of humans). So "FAR" better off as you put is is a bridge too far for me. I have purchased tools and equipment that fed.gov paid hundreds of thousands for, for pennies. The massive inefficiency of a large government alone is breathtaking.

This would be a wonderful argument for a 100 level political philosophy class debating the ideological purity of libertarianism vs. communism (and I would have likely been with you), but this is the real world. Others have already covered how this stockpile was already in place and could have been handled better, and I realize I'm beating a bit of a dead horse here.

The bottom line here is that even a devout libertarian should be able to recognize that this is precisely the type of scenario we have a federal government for. To go back to where this all started (the tweet from the doctor lamenting the lack of PPE and your response wondering why she wasn't blaming her own administration or more local authorities), it's because people should be able to rely on their federal government to coordinate an appropriate response to a national/global pandemic. If this were a local or regional epidemic, you'd have a much better argument.

Wonder what effect, if any, it will have on the census. I know we've made big strides in online counting, but there still must be a significant amount of face to face counting.

Train engineer derails train in Port Las Angeles to try to attack USNS Mercy.

A California Highway Patrol officer, who saw the crash and took Moreno into custody after he tried to flee, said the train smashed into a steel barrier, a chain-link fence, slid through a parking lot, then a gravel-filled lot, and crashed into another fence.

When the officer apprehended Moreno, he allegedly made a series of "spontaneous statements," prosecutors said in their statement, including, “You only get this chance once. The whole world is watching. I had to. People don’t know what’s going on here. Now they will.”

Video from inside the train's cab shows Moreno inside and holding a lighted flare, prosecutors said. The engineer told authorities that he had not plotted the attack ahead of time and acted alone.

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1 ... 8619694081

The governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, apparently had no idea until today that people without symptoms can still spread the coronavirus.

Alefroth wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:52 am Wonder what effect, if any, it will have on the census. I know we've made big strides in online counting, but there still must be a significant amount of face to face counting.

I remember spotting some website that had the return rates by state. I'll see if I can find it.

Here we go:
https://2020census.gov/en/response-rates.html

Defiant wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:00 am

Alefroth wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:52 am Wonder what effect, if any, it will have on the census. I know we've made big strides in online counting, but there still must be a significant amount of face to face counting.

I remember spotting some website that had the return rates by state. I'll see if I can find it.

Here's the self-response rate from census.gov.

Yikes.

Cardiac patients who cannot be revived at home must be declared dead, according to jarring new orders given to EMS teams in New York.

Effective immediately, patients in cardiac arrest will not be transported to a hospital if first responders cannot get a pulse on their own while administering CPR, a new internal memo obtained by ABC News states. City hospitals are overrun with COVID-19 patients and some cardiac patients may not receive the medical care they need to survive.

And in other news, this was happening just up the street from me yesterday. I'd be happy to let these dolts just do their own thing, if it didn't have such dire consequences for the rest of us.

malchior wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:49 am

The governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, apparently had no idea until today that people without symptoms can still spread the coronavirus.

Give him a break. CDC is nearly seven miles from his office.

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:09 pm And in other news, this was happening just up the street from me yesterday. I'd be happy to let these dolts just do their own thing, if it didn't have such dire consequences for the rest of us.

Fake pandemic? For real? I actually don't care anymore when groups like this feel they need to protest and hang out in large groups - go for it - invite all your like-minded friends. I'm not worried because I won't be any where near them. However, I do feel quite sorry for their children and any medical staff that are going to be treating them because of their stupidity, putting their own lives at risk. To quote one of the greats, "you can't fix stupid"; I'm done trying.

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:09 pm Yikes.

Cardiac patients who cannot be revived at home must be declared dead, according to jarring new orders given to EMS teams in New York.

Effective immediately, patients in cardiac arrest will not be transported to a hospital if first responders cannot get a pulse on their own while administering CPR, a new internal memo obtained by ABC News states. City hospitals are overrun with COVID-19 patients and some cardiac patients may not receive the medical care they need to survive.

And in other news, this was happening just up the street from me yesterday. I'd be happy to let these dolts just do their own thing, if it didn't have such dire consequences for the rest of us.

Live Free Or Die! Umm, OK, go ahead I guess.

Defiant wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:02 am Here we go:
https://2020census.gov/en/response-rates.html

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Here's the self-response rate from census.gov.

Yikes.

The right is flooded with people driving around filming hospitals saying that there are no crowds there. Next they say there is no cell phone footage of bodies/body bags being stacked up. Then they jump to logical conclusion that this is the media lying to them to force Trump from power. You can't reason with these people.

https://twitter.com/Scimitar_SS/status/ ... 1973518337

You also have major league assholes like James Woods stirring the pot. This shit got 70K likes and 30K retweets.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/stat ... 7966307329

I just did a quick scroll through the comments on Woods' derp.

I...don't recommend doing that. It's for your own sanity.

There are 10-15 reporters and 2 or 3 TV trucks outside our ER all day and night. If there is some big cover-up they must be blind.

These always give me a chuckle. Much needed today, I might add.

https://twitter.com/keatonpatti/status/ ... 6679864322

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:14 pm These always give me a chuckle. Much needed today, I might add.

https://twitter.com/keatonpatti/status/ ... 6679864322

poster is a liar. unfortunately most of these Trump-related ones are actually human-written and have nothing to do with machine learning at all.

hitbyambulance wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:29 pm poster is a liar. unfortunately most of these Trump-related ones are actually human-written and have nothing to do with machine learning at all.

I kinda figured everyone already knew that, and the "I forced an bot to watch..." bit was just a funny setup.

Yeah, the "I forced a bot to watch 1000 hours of [something]" is a meme setup for this type of script.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:12 pm There are 10-15 reporters and 2 or 3 TV trucks outside our ER all day and night. If there is some big cover-up they must be blind.

Also, insurance plans are waiving all kinds of pre-auth, UM, and other requirements. It's unprecedented and I don't see them adding all this expense for something they would know is "fake" or a "hoax."

I also don't see the hospitals, who are losing a shitload of money clearing the decks for the storm, doing this for what they would clearly know is fake. They are full of doctors who see the effects (or supposed lack thereof) first hand and/or would have direct contact with colleagues around the world who would see the same.

Hey! Keep your logic out of my conspiracy theory!

Yeah it's really irritating to see the hoax stuff. I work for a hospital. We've been through multiple hurricanes, disease outbreaks, etc. Real life things that actually happened. And yet we've never hit this level of urgency, command center mobilization, etc. The idea that somehow we'd do more for a hoax than we do for actual disasters is ridiculous.

The sheer number of people that would have to be in on this hoax would be in the hundreds at my hospital alone. All of them risking their jobs over what - some political motivation? And they'd have to do it coordination with thousands of other hospitals nationwide?

If this is indeed a hoax, I'd posit that we are not actually living on a planet called Earth in a galaxy called Milky Way. Instead, we are in an immersive pleasure sim on a planet called Xilehrith in the galaxy called Ehtheopnzio. Unfortunately the sim has been hacked by Murlwhelanni dissidents and we are stuck living out an implanted Trojan horse of a reality. Because that is just about as likely.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:30 pm If this is indeed a hoax, I'd posit that we are not actually living on a planet called Earth in a galaxy called Milky Way. Instead, we are in an immersive pleasure sim on a planet called Xilehrith in the galaxy called Ehtheopnzio. Unfortunately the sim has been hacked by Murlwhelanni dissidents and we are stuck living out an implanted Trojan horse of a reality. Because that is just about as likely.

gameoverman's handle is much more ominous in your scenario.

FL's governor said attending religious services is one of the essential activities permitted under his stay at home order. So I guess we can write off FL.

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:09 pm Yikes.

Cardiac patients who cannot be revived at home must be declared dead, according to jarring new orders given to EMS teams in New York.

Effective immediately, patients in cardiac arrest will not be transported to a hospital if first responders cannot get a pulse on their own while administering CPR, a new internal memo obtained by ABC News states. City hospitals are overrun with COVID-19 patients and some cardiac patients may not receive the medical care they need to survive.

And in other news, this was happening just up the street from me yesterday. I'd be happy to let these dolts just do their own thing, if it didn't have such dire consequences for the rest of us.

Since we are at war, can these idiots be considered sympathizers?

stessier wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:00 pm FL's governor said attending religious services is one of the essential activities permitted under his stay at home order. So I guess we can write off FL.

DeSantis finally issues a statewide order with much fanfare. However, unknown to anyone (including myself because I have to interpret these orders), he quietly signed a second order removing the stricter restrictions that local counties put in place, including the hardest hit Dade and Broward. I'm in Broward and I am just so enraged over this.

Ron DeSantis quietly signed second executive order targeting local coronavirus restrictions

The second order requires that new state guidelines taking effect Friday morning “shall supersede any conflicting official action or order issued by local officials in response to COVID-19.” In other words, local governments cannot place any limitations that would be more strict than the statewide guidelines.

Locally, it means Hillsborough County cannot mandate churches close their doors, a rule that drew national attention and the ire of the local Republican Party after Tampa megachurch The River of Tampa Bay held two Sunday services, leading to the arrest of pastor Rodney Howard Browne.

The school across the street gives out lunches (actually bags with 6 meals) every day to students. Because of this, the principal and a skeleton crew are there. The handoff has to be outside because of social distancing, etc.

So yesterday there is a woman in the school yard with her dog off the leash. Principal approached her to ask her to leash the dog (which technically isn't allowed in the yard at all, with or without leash) because families were starting to arrive for food.

The dog attacked him, bit his leg, and took him to the ground. As he fought it off, the woman fled, calling the dog which followed her. What a piece of shit.

He has two serious bites on his leg.

stessier wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:00 pm FL's governor said attending religious services is one of the essential activities permitted under his stay at home order. So I guess we can write off FL.

FL was doomed when they welcomed Spring Breakers, and their belated and weak response afterward just seals that. Add in their large elderly population, and you've got the makings of a staggering death toll.

Kraken wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:22 pm

stessier wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:00 pm FL's governor said attending religious services is one of the essential activities permitted under his stay at home order. So I guess we can write off FL.

FL was doomed when they welcomed Spring Breakers, and their belated and weak response afterward just seals that. Add in their large elderly population, and you've got the makings of a staggering death toll.

Nah, they have God.

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:09 pmAnd in other news, this was happening just up the street from me yesterday. I'd be happy to let these dolts just do their own thing, if it didn't have such dire consequences for the rest of us.

People like this who gather to prove a point aren't the only kind of dumbasses out there. Locally a man is missing after deciding to go for a hike on Mt Baldy, which can be cold and dangerous this time of year. If he did it to commit suicide he did it in such a way as to jeopardize the lives of everyone who has to search for him. If he was not suicidal then he couldn't just go for a walk in the city park? WTF?

malchior wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:57 pm

You also have major league assholes like James Woods stirring the pot. This shit got 70K likes and 30K retweets.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/stat ... 7966307329

He's great in Diggstown though.