Octopus Overlords

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:53 pm With daily tests costing employers $50+ each, it gets cost prohibitive to give employees the option to not be vaccinated. $250/week so an employee can opt to remain unvaccinated? I think those employees will be frowned upon.

Solution - testing at work is not covered for workers that refuse to vaccinate; it's now an out of pocket expense, pulled right from your paycheck (after taxes).

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:56 pm Solution - testing at work is not covered for workers that refuse to vaccinate; it's now an out of pocket expense, pulled right from your paycheck (after taxes).

I can see that happening. I know my work is much less tolerant of equipment loss/failure due to negligence since WFH. You'd think anything to keep the spice flowing during a crisis but the reality is penny pinching went in to overdrive, possibly inspired by supply chain shut down and need for free cashflow.

LordMortis wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:14 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:56 pm Solution - testing at work is not covered for workers that refuse to vaccinate; it's now an out of pocket expense, pulled right from your paycheck (after taxes).

I can see that happening.

...in blue states. Very blue states.

MHS wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:47 am Not knowing is really kind of the worst.

Another study published today:

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/14 ... 7516982278

The implications of the new report are notable. Whereas there were concerns previously about mixing doses of different vaccines, these results support important advantages for protection. One caveat is that the people who were studied were healthy, young HCWs

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:53 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:14 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:56 pm Solution - testing at work is not covered for workers that refuse to vaccinate; it's now an out of pocket expense, pulled right from your paycheck (after taxes).

I can see that happening.

...in blue states. Very blue states.

Well apparently we don't need nationwide herd immunity to have herd immunity that matters so fine, the red states can have people who keep getting sick, taking up valuable hospital beds because they are stupid, and dying.

Lorini wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:25 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:53 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:14 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:56 pm Solution - testing at work is not covered for workers that refuse to vaccinate; it's now an out of pocket expense, pulled right from your paycheck (after taxes).

I can see that happening.

...in blue states. Very blue states.

Well apparently we don't need nationwide herd immunity to have herd immunity that matters so fine, the red states can have people who keep getting sick, taking up valuable hospital beds because they are stupid, and dying.

I wish it worked that neatly.

The problem is that the red states have ~30% - 40% people who aren't stupid (based on vaccination rates), and the stupid people are going to take us out with them - or just cripple our children. But any attempt at regulation (like charging employees or mandatory vaccination) will be beaten down by the state governments, or else so many people will sue them (such as is happening with Indiana University) that other places will be afraid to even try (like Indiana State University.)

The truth is that the red states are angry, arrogant 16-year-olds who refuse to be told what to do and will do the opposite whenever they are told to do something. Nothing will change that until they either get grounded (which would require Federal action), or screw things up so badly that they learn their lesson (and so far 'death of family and friends' hasn't even been enough to achieve this.)

And since we don't have closed borders between states, the red states are going to drag the blue down with them.

As always, what we should do is made irrelevant in the face of what we actually can do.

Hartford Healthcare, the largest healthcare system in CT, just announced that they will be requiring all employees to be vaccinated by the end of September. They will be allowing "colleagues with certain medical conditions (including pregnancy or nursing), or deeply held religious objections that prevent the colleague from receiving the vaccine" to apply for an exemption or postponement. The big question is what constitutes a valid request for medical or religious exemption, and how much will they push back against people with weak excuses for refusing the vaccine. The released policy does clearly state, however, that individuals not granted an exemption or failing to provide proof of vaccination by the deadline will face disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment.

This is pretty much how they've handled flu vaccination for years, so it will be interesting to see how employees respond. The catch is that the state hospital association is pushing these requirements as well, so it's quickly coming to pretty much every hospital in the state. It's not like workers will be able to leave one job and jump to another nearby to avoid the requirement...

I'm sure Smoove would agree with this;

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07 ... -mandates/

"On Tuesday, seven health organizations—including the Society for Healthcare Epidemiology of America, the Association for Professionals in Epidemiology and Infection, the Infectious Diseases Society of America, and the Pediatric Infectious Diseases Society—published a consensus statement, saying that "COVID-19 vaccination should be a condition of employment for all healthcare personnel.""

As a general rule, it's good to practice healthcare if you're in the healthcare industry.

Zaxxon wrote:As a general rule, it's good to practice healthcare if you're in the healthcare industry.

You would be surprised by the way that many people working in healthcare really feel about the work they do every day....

Lorini wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:45 am I'm sure Smoove would agree with this;

100% - it's been 20+ years and I still don't understand how someone can be in a patient-facing healthcare position and not think of themselves as a potential source of infection if they're not vaccinated. Its almost like nothing has changed since Dr. Meigs believing in the 1800s that "a gentleman's hands were clean" and that there was no way he could be responsible for contaminating women during childbirth assistance.

As I'm sure no one noticed ( ), the CDC has put "clinical considerations for the immunocompromised" on next week's (7/22) Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) meeting agenda.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:07 am

Lorini wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:45 am I'm sure Smoove would agree with this;

100% - it's been 20+ years and I still don't understand how someone can be in a patient-facing healthcare position and not think of themselves as a potential source of infection if they're not vaccinated. Its almost like nothing has changed since Dr. Meigs believing in the 1800s that "a gentleman's hands were clean" and that there was no way he could be responsible for contaminating women during childbirth assistance.

Hence the Semmelweis Reflex…

One of our client hospitals got so tired of "religious exemption" requests for flu shots, that they made it a requirement to include the passage from the scripture that you believe precludes you from getting vaccinated. They are waiting to see if that decreases the number of bogus "religious beliefs" exemptions for flu, and then they plan on rolling it out for other vaccinations as well.

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:48 am As a general rule, it's good to practice healthcare if you're in the healthcare industry.

I would think it would be as obvious as saying water is wet.

My employer just dropped the indoor mask requirement for employees who show proof of vaccination.

Once again, multiple vaccinated Yankees test positive.. The team leads the league for vaccinations and is around 85%. Really wonder what is up with them.

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:48 am As a general rule, it's good to practice healthcare if you're in the healthcare industry.

Or rather, if you're in the healthcare industry, you should at least know enough about healthcare that vaccination is a foregone conclusion.

If you're not vaccinated, why would I trust your judgment when it comes to my family's health?

I was waiting to see if multiple news outlets would report, so I'll go with IBT as they're quoting both NBC and CNN in their piece:

Emergency approval for COVID-19 vaccines in children below 12 years may come by mid-winter, a Food and Drug Administration (FDA) official reportedly said Thursday.

Details:

The FDA official, who wasn't named in the report, added that the agency is requesting for up to six months of safety follow-up studies for a biologics license application (BLA) for kids below 12 years of age. The agency has required only two months of follow-up data for the vaccine clinical trials in adults.

The additional months of follow-up data collection is expected to make the process for full approval easier. Pfizer and Moderna are still holding clinical trials to determine how their COVID-19 vaccines will work in children below the age of 12.

I get it, but that's depressing.

ugh, I'd been hoping for under 12 authorization around September or so. Having to wait until midwinter would suck.

So, now that we know this (that kids under 12 aren't going to start being vaccinated for another 6+ months), this is when the feds need to follow up with a 1-2 punch of (1) giving full approval for the first round of vaccines and (2) reinstating a metrics based recommendation for indoor mask usage that each state should adopt immediately, ahead of the 2021/22 school year.

That's all I'll say on this side of the fence, but it needs to happen.

Much happier now about the “typographical error” added to the file to allow my 11 year old’s vaccine early. She’s eligible in August but that 6 is basically a lazy 8.

Yeah, that sucks majorly.

Regarding the status of full approval for Pfizer:

https://twitter.com/megtirrell/status/1 ... 0275861507

Acting FDA commissioner on Pfizer application for full approval of #covid19 vaccine: “The agency intends to complete the review far in advance of the PDUFA Goal Date.”

For reference, the PDUFA (The Prescription Drug User Fee) Goal Date is January 2022.

Zaxxon wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:07 pm https://twitter.com/EdCNN/status/141641 ... 12256?s=19

Unavailable. Can you summarize?

UAMS Medical Center Full

Headlines in local media.
Passed by there Thursday on my way to the VA. In the parking lot they had their covid shot clinic open. They had no customers.
Trump supporters all, probably.

Good snapshot in the NYT about the situation in Ark. I was hoping they'd interview dbt, but I imagine he shot at the reporter.

For our Canadian friends:
Canada's vaccination rate overtakes US

Yeah, it's what has been said for a couple of weeks now. For one thing, I think the long wait to us getting it seeing as we haven't been able to domestically manufacture has made Canada really grateful for what we've been getting. We still have fringe groups, but for the most part, everyone has been eager for their turns and the demand has been through the roof. I think the gamble of giving as many first doses before moving on to the seconds have helped spread it out much more quickly and widening the coverage. For the longest time, demand was far outstripping supply.

In most of the country, the uptake (based on first doses) seems to be plateauing, with the ceiling ranging from as low as 73% of the eligible population in Saskatchewan to as high as 94% in the Yukon. Quebec is even trying the COVID lottery thing to nudge some more people into getting the jab.

Saskatchewan dropped all of their pandemic restrictions on 11 July, so I guess they will be our early warning signal if the country is headed for the typical Delta trajectory as the variant takes over while (or after) everything opens up.

Another thing to think about is the wide dispersal that we have in this Country. There are some remote areas that have been hard to reach, and people there haven't gotten it yet, not because they don't want to, but because they don't have convenient access. In my region, for example, they've shifted focus away from the mass-vaccination clinics, to using mobile vaccination clinics, ie a city bus converted to a vaccine clinic on wheels complete with cubicles, and they're visiting our region's outlying areas with it. I think Canada could use more of those to reach the far flung places.

Well, being lazy and scheduling issues paid off. Just booked our second shots and we're able to match Pfizer.

However, my region's site states this:

Wear a short-sleeved shirt and a jacket/sweater that you can easily take off. The vaccine is injected into your upper arm.

What the hell, guys?? It's 24 degrees outside. Why the hell am I going to go out and buy a sweater just for the privilege of getting injected with Doug Ford's nanobots?! I've never owned a sweater in my life! Anarcho-authoritarianism indeed.

They do also state jacket. Which leads me to believe that big Sweater Industrial Complex isn't truly behind this.

Pfizer/Burlington.

Sudy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:39 pm Well, being lazy and scheduling issues paid off. Just booked our second shots and we're able to match Pfizer.

Yeah, that's to be expected. As far as I know, the mix-and-match for Pfizer/Moderna was only a big thing for a relatively short window where Pfizer was in short supply due to a delayed shipment while Moderna was in ample supply due to an unexpected shipment. Once that situation normalized, there wouldn't be much reason to mix the doses, although it's possible they would continue to do so to some lesser extent in order to reserve more Pfizer doses for juveniles (since only Pfizer is authorized for them, afaik).

[Edit: Worth being a little skeptical of this - see Smoove's response below]

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1 ... 9967860738

Full thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1416962059967860738

This is why we can't have nice things.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/ ... 72808?s=19

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:33 pm This is why we can't have nice things.

I hope every single $1 of his hospital and medical coverage is denied and he needs to pay it all out of pocket.