Why isn't anyone here talking about virtual reality?

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Mon May 09, 2016 4:01 am

I know I'm way late in saying this, but even as an aging curmudgeon myself, I was surprised at how much talk there was about why to not be interested, before some significant talk emerged about the experience offered. I can't afford a new PC or the device itself, don't have a room to play in, and don't like to exclude or tune out my family, but I'd love to have this now. I'm waiting for practical reasons but I don't feel the need to talk myself into believing it's crap just so I can tolerate the wait. I know that's not what everyone was necessarily doing, but some of it felt like it. I figuratively can't wait. In reality, the wait will probably be pretty long.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon May 09, 2016 8:46 am

JetFred wrote:I know I'm way late in saying this, but even as an aging curmudgeon myself, I was surprised at how much talk there was about why to not be interested, before some significant talk emerged about the experience offered.

Well to be fair, I think the early reviews are bearing that out. While reviews have been positive, I've been surprised that the buzz is not "This is the greatest thing ever! Sell your house to buy one of these NOW!" It's more like "This is pretty cool but will probably get better."

There are some who think that if you're taking a realistic look at it and not calling it the best invention in the history of mankind, then you're calling it crap. Which is not the case. I think people are just taking a cautious approach with it given the high cost of entry.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Mon May 09, 2016 4:28 pm

I had actually approached the whole Oculus/Vive launch as "I'll let the early adopters work it all out", and was fine waiting until next year or more before thinking of a purchase. However, after seeing some of the gameplay, especially with the Vive room-scale VR, I was totally all-in. I thought it was going to be underwhelming, but damn...it was much better than I was expecting for the first try. I am literally counting the days to receive a headset now. I know that Oculus is leading the market, but I keep finding more and more reviews leaning toward the Vive given its true sense of involvement/presence.

Additionally, I know this is Gen 1 and will get cheaper/lighter/better...but how long is that going to take? I assume they are going to need to re-coup some of their R&D and also not piss off their early adopters by releasing new headsets immediately. But, I am amazed at the number of people happily spending big bucks on a new Apple iPhone/iPad each year.

All I know is that this is the first time that I've truly been excited about new technology in some time.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Mon May 09, 2016 4:35 pm

I wonder if it will be like 3D coming to the theater again, where it's cool when it works but when the current trend started, I was totally "whatever" about it. Now it's most most action blockbusters (and occasional really weird choices to have 3D) and you know it can't be cheap to produce well. And the tickets cost too much. And some people can't see it clearly or don't like it. But it seems to be here to stay this time.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Mon May 09, 2016 5:26 pm

Buatha wrote:I know that Oculus is leading the market, but I keep finding more and more reviews leaning toward the Vive given its true sense of involvement/presence.

Once the Touch controllers come out the Rift will be able to do the same kind of stuff you're seeing people doing on the Vive, but you wouldn't know it from the Oculus marketing strategy of doing no marketing at all. You'd think Oculus would want to minimize the public perception effects of the Vive's ~6 month head start on tracked hand controllers, but they seem content to just sit idly by.

I'm guessing they're waiting for E3 to start their marketing blitz for the Touch launch, but who knows.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Mon May 09, 2016 6:38 pm

Well. I was thinking the same thing, but I've run across at least two references to Oculus stating 180-degree games as the target rather than 360, which is leading me to believe otherwise. I'm not home, so I can't link to the references. All of the Touch demos provided had the cameras facing front instead of positioned elsewhere.

blackjack · Post by **blackjack** » Mon May 09, 2016 7:10 pm

In the "don't try this at home category":
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inn ... age%2Fcard

It's pretty gross really (bucket for bathroom use).

Just the video is over at YouTube:

Making Virtual Reality World Record History
https://youtu.be/mZau6PiLoJc

Apparently some VR manufacturers recommend regular breaks between sessions, while others don't really have any guidelines yet.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue May 10, 2016 12:38 am

Buatha wrote:Well. I was thinking the same thing, but I've run across at least two references to Oculus stating 180-degree games as the target rather than 360, which is leading me to believe otherwise. I'm not home, so I can't link to the references. All of the Touch demos provided had the cameras facing front instead of positioned elsewhere.

It's been demonstrated that the Rift has no trouble handling 360-degree room scale experiences with two cameras. The 180-degree thing is something Oculus has only mentioned to devs when pressured on the subject, likely based on what is "safe" to target, and I don't think it's something that's going to stick. They just haven't reached the point where they want to announce anything yet. Touch was delayed by half a year for a reason.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue May 10, 2016 12:26 pm

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that anything that's on SteamVR already works on the Rift. My only personal example is that I was able to launch TheBlu even though it doesn't yet have official Rift support. I couldn't navigate any menus, because the menus are set up for tracked hand controllers, but the game worked fine other than that. I've heard some reports of people using old Razer Hydra controllers to get Vive games working on their Rifts.

So we might have cases of developers setting up their games to support the Oculus recommended sensor config, but if they're set up for 360° gameplay you should be able to do the same 360° gameplay with a Rift. There's no switch for setting either headset to 180° mode or 360° mode; it's just a matter of whether or not the sensors can see what you're doing.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Tue May 10, 2016 1:02 pm

I sincerely want Oculus and HTC to both succeed as it's good for gamers. The sooner that the Touch is released the better as far as I am concerned so that developers aren't forced to choose one platform for their games based on control-schemes. Additionally, I hope there will be a majority of cross-platform games instead of exclusives and I applaud Valve/HTC for not limiting access (yet?) to Oculus Rift users.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue May 10, 2016 1:19 pm

Buatha wrote:I sincerely want Oculus and HTC to both succeed as it's good for gamers. The sooner that the Touch is released the better as far as I am concerned so that developers aren't forced to choose one platform for their games based on control-schemes. Additionally, I hope there will be a majority of cross-platform games instead of exclusives and I applaud Valve/HTC for not limiting access (yet?) to Oculus Rift users.

I don't think developers can afford not to target both platforms if they possibly can, at least not this early in the game. Even combining both Vive and Rift owners into one pile, I think at best we're talking about an install base in the hundreds of thousands by the end of the year.

And that's just the PC-based VR fight. I'm guessing the Playstation VR population will outnumber the Rift and Vive populations combined, and PSVR is even more occlusion-restricted than the Rift. With the Rift the 180° facing is just a soft recommendation, but with PSVR's single camera it's flat-out impossible for your hands to be well tracked if you're facing away from the camera. I think that for at least this generation, VR games that need 360° hand tracking are going to by far be the exception to the rule.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Tue May 10, 2016 1:38 pm

The IGN video of people playing a Paranormal Activity game in 360 degrees is pretty interesting. It cracks me up when the big guy almost leans on the in-game table when picking up something.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Thu May 12, 2016 4:49 pm

So, I have two competing orders for the Vive and Oculus. I get the feeling that the Vive is going to arrive in June, and the Oculus...maybe August?

While looking for shipping updates, I stumbled upon a post for this site: HTC

The site shows a count of Vives in stock if you go to the Vive page. The URL is in the appropriate domain and I've seen the count decreasing today. Do you think this site is legit? It seems too good to be true which means it probably is.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Thu May 12, 2016 5:10 pm

FWIW, Oculus seems to be moving through preorders at a good pace now. They seem to be meeting or beating the revised estimated shipping windows they gave everyone.

As for that HTC site, I'm skeptical about that count since they're still working through Vive preorders, but who knows. Both Oculus and HTC have been a bit unpredictable with preorder handling.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Thu May 12, 2016 5:16 pm

Yeah, I don't have a pre-order for either one. I just have my confirmed-but-not-available Amazon order and the order through the Vive website that states "around June".

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Fri May 13, 2016 3:01 am

I just got my "order processing" email today. I was in group 29, with a delivery estimate of 5/16 to 5/26. It looks like shipping is on track.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Fri May 13, 2016 3:41 pm

Amazon stated they expect to receive Oculus Rift stock on June 20th and upgraded me to Next Day for all of the trouble.

HTC VIve's storefront is totally fooked. I tried their "other" link I mentioned above which appears legitimate as the order appeared on my account. Unlike the official Vive order, this new order shows In Process and I saw the authorization charge hit my CC. My original order just says Submitted. Now, I'm not sure which order to cancel.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Sat May 14, 2016 11:36 am

So, it seems the second HTC site is indeed legitimate and shipped my Vive today....beating the order I placed five days previously on the official Vive storefront.

The people handling their purchasing site (Digital River) is whack! I tried to cancel the 2nd order by email, calling, and using their automated cancellation service. But, I've heard nothing and will probably be having to eBay it or find a friend.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Wed May 18, 2016 12:50 pm

Toe, as a Vive user, are you able to completely minimize the fresnel rings when viewing things or does it mean I haven't gotten my headset adjusted correctly? I seem to notice them in certain areas, mainly dark with white reflecting like the earth home screen.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 am

My rift is here and it is glorious! Now back to Project Cars...

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat May 21, 2016 7:02 pm

VR Tron air hockey

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu May 26, 2016 10:25 am

Took a nap had a dream and it made me think........A great use for VR might be to have a pet you've had pass away back again to play with. Someone could take a pic or video of the pet and digitize it for VR. Give it a AI behavior so you could pet it or throw a ball for it and such. Might be cool....or sad.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu May 26, 2016 11:17 am

It's not a bad idea, though it also raises some ethical concerns.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri May 27, 2016 9:09 am

Especially if you have your ex wife fetching the ball for you...

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri May 27, 2016 10:50 am

Or a naked Ferengi female

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Fri May 27, 2016 6:10 pm

Daehawk wrote:Took a nap had a dream and it made me think........A great use for VR might be to have a pet you've had pass away back again to play with. Someone could take a pic or video of the pet and digitize it for VR. Give it a AI behavior so you could pet it or throw a ball for it and such. Might be cool....or sad.

Think bigger.

What if VR + AI meant your pet could talk to you?!?! Forget about playing fetch, you and your dog could drink beer and talk over old times in VR. All you'd have to do is input all your memories of your pet, the AI could build conversations from that. It'd be a piece of cake to alter animations to allow things like a dog holding a can of beer with his paw.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Fri May 27, 2016 6:32 pm

That crosses from augmented memory to alternate reality altogether. I have to wonder what people will end up wanting. Probably all of the above, and plenty that even my haunted, dark, twisted mind can't immediately come up with.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri May 27, 2016 6:37 pm

My dog was a sex maniac. Id never get to talk or drink beer with him because he'd be on or after all the bitches.

Nightwish · Post by **Nightwish** » Fri May 27, 2016 10:02 pm

JetFred wrote: Probably all of the above, and plenty that even my haunted, dark, twisted mind can't immediately come up with.

Tentacle porn.
Actually, I just pictured the media when GTA:VR or Manhunt:VR comes out. Or like that creepy japanese molestation game from a few years ago. VR will go on, but it better be widespread before then.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Fri May 27, 2016 11:07 pm

No, no, I can come up with tentacle porn. It's got to get more unexpected than that.

Biyobi · Post by **Biyobi** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:54 am

JetFred wrote:No, no, I can come up with tentacle porn. It's got to get more unexpected than that.

The Spanish Inquisition?

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:49 pm

If that pops up unexpectedly, the scroll wheel will cycle through their chief weapons (fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, etc.).

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun May 29, 2016 12:55 pm

When VR can manifest a convincing comfy chair, truly will it have come of age.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sun May 29, 2016 1:53 pm

Max Peck wrote:When VR can manifest a convincing comfy chair, truly will it have come of age.

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:52 pm

We're all too clever for our own good, but back in the Gone Gold days, I'm pretty sure this is how you doomed the forums to crash.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:43 am

Insomniac just released Edge of Nowhere. It looks really promising, and I really want to buy it blindly since AAA level games aren't going to come out very frequently for VR for a while (or at least, as close to AAA as we'll see in VR for the timing being), but it's supposed to be a pretty scary game. I haven't tried any horror games in VR yet and I'm expecting I'll be a big wuss.

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:36 am

Daehawk wrote:My dog was a sex maniac. Id never get to talk or drink beer with him because he'd be on or after all the bitches.

you could always be his wingman?

JetFred · Post by **JetFred** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:08 pm

wonderpug wrote:Insomniac just released Edge of Nowhere. It looks really promising, and I really want to buy it blindly since AAA level games aren't going to come out very frequently for VR for a while (or at least, as close to AAA as we'll see in VR for the timing being), but it's supposed to be a pretty scary game. I haven't tried any horror games in VR yet and I'm expecting I'll be a big wuss.

Cthulhu?

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:23 pm

wonderpug wrote:Insomniac just released Edge of Nowhere. It looks really promising, and I really want to buy it blindly since AAA level games aren't going to come out very frequently for VR for a while (or at least, as close to AAA as we'll see in VR for the timing being), but it's supposed to be a pretty scary game. I haven't tried any horror games in VR yet and I'm expecting I'll be a big wuss.

I'm not sure I grok the idea of a third person VR game...

Frost · Post by **Frost** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:37 pm

Grok you.

At this point, I have almost no interest in VR. I'm just fine with my monitors. I may change my mind someday.