Abortion news and discussion

[gbasden]

House Passes Bill Making Abortion After 20 Weeks a Federal Crime

Under the new legislation (H.R. 36), abortion after 20 weeks pregnancy would be a crime except in cases where the life of the mother is at risk or the pregnancy is a product of rape or incest. Pregnant women who find out after the cutoff that they are carrying an nonviable fetus (i.e., one that cannot survive outside the womb) would still be forced to carry the fetus to term.

While women seeking an abortion after 20 weeks would not be criminalized under federal law, anyone who performed or agreed to perform an abortion on someone more than 20 weeks pregnant would face five years in federal prison, a fine, or both. "A woman who undergoes a prohibited abortion may not be prosecuted for violating or conspiring to violate the provisions of this bill," it states.

The "nonviable fetus" part seems a little weird. What's the point other than maybe a Dr. using it as a loophole to perform abortions after 20 weeks?

I hate to keep bringing this up, but fuck them. If this had been in place, it easily could have destroyed my wife's ability to have another child and could have possibly led to her death. These people are awful fucking human beings.

[El Guapo]

House Passes Bill Making Abortion After 20 Weeks a Federal Crime

Under the new legislation (H.R. 36), abortion after 20 weeks pregnancy would be a crime except in cases where the life of the mother is at risk or the pregnancy is a product of rape or incest. Pregnant women who find out after the cutoff that they are carrying an nonviable fetus (i.e., one that cannot survive outside the womb) would still be forced to carry the fetus to term.

While women seeking an abortion after 20 weeks would not be criminalized under federal law, anyone who performed or agreed to perform an abortion on someone more than 20 weeks pregnant would face five years in federal prison, a fine, or both. "A woman who undergoes a prohibited abortion may not be prosecuted for violating or conspiring to violate the provisions of this bill," it states.

The "nonviable fetus" part seems a little weird. What's the point other than maybe a Dr. using it as a loophole to perform abortions after 20 weeks?

I hate to keep bringing this up, but fuck them. If this had been in place, it easily could have destroyed my wife's ability to have another child and could have possibly led to her death. These people are awful fucking human beings.

In theory if it could have led to her death she could have 'qualified' under the life of the mother exemption, though even then the doctor in question would have to be willing to risk jail time if a prosecutor second-guessed his medical judgment. I would also guess that the risk that that your wife's capacity to have more children could be destroyed would probably not qualify under the 'life of the mother' exception.

Maybe you could have divorced your wife and married someone else in order to use the bill's secret "pregnant mistress" exception.

[Zarathud]

I hate to keep bringing this up, but fuck them. If this had been in place, it easily could have destroyed my wife's ability to have another child and could have possibly led to her death. These people are awful fucking human beings.

Same here. My wife's first pregnancy resulted in a Trisomy 13 chromosomal abnormality. Most infants with the condition don't live past their first 2 weeks of life, but they "could" be viable under this definition. 90% of those born alive die during their first year. This fucking bill would have forced my wife to attempt to carry the child to term if we hadn't done the DNA testing at 14 weeks because the severe defects otherwise don't show up until the 18-21 month ultrasound. It was hard enough with legal abortion.

Fuck Trump and these deplorable House Republicans.

[stessier]

until the 18-21 month ultrasound.

Sorry, serious topic I know, but holy cow lawyers have a long gestation period!

[Zarathud]

LOL, yes, weeks. Tired and OUTRAGED!

[hepcat]

until the 18-21 month ultrasound.

Sorry, serious topic I know, but holy cow lawyers have a long gestation period!

They can't come out until they've presented a compelling case.

[Defiant]

Abortion should be illegal! ...right after my mistress gets hers, that is.

And suddenly Murphy is the latest Republican not to seek reelection

[hepcat]

Yeah, I saw that last night. What a slime bag.

[LordMortis]

Beyond the sleaze, abortion has been coming up a lot in the last few weeks. Is there a reason for this? Is this a battle cry instructed by the current GOP? Specifically, this week, ever since Las Vegas the gun control vs abortion things is nigh constant in my social media feed.

[stessier]

Beyond the sleaze, abortion has been coming up a lot in the last few weeks. Is there a reason for this? Is this a battle cry instructed by the current GOP? Specifically, this week, ever since Las Vegas the gun control vs abortion things is nigh constant in my social media feed.

Annually, on the first Sunday of October, many churches participate in a Right to Life chain across the country. I would suspect that's a big factor.

[LordMortis]

I did not know that.

[Defiant]

Abortion should be illegal! ...right after my mistress gets hers, that is.

And suddenly Murphy is the latest Republican not to seek reelection

Actually, it looks like he's going to resign effective October 21.

[gbasden]

I'll never understand how congress people can push bills like this while at the same time letting CHIP expire and wanting to slash Medicaid. They care SOOOOO much about the unborn children unless they make the stupid decision to be born to poor parents. Then, fuck them.

[Isgrimnur]

Texas

Texas’ latest attempt to restrict abortions was struck down Wednesday, as a federal judge ruled banning a common procedure unconstitutional.
...
The regulations Gov. Greg Abbott signed into law in July would have required doctors to stop the heart of a fetus before removing it in an abortion.

“The Act establishes a point of fetal demise at a time before fetal viability,” Yeakel wrote. “In so doing, the Act does not further the health of the woman before the fetus is viable.”

Whole Woman’s Health and other groups sued over the portion of Senate Bill 8 that bans “dismemberment abortions,” a non-medical term that describes removing a fetus in the second trimester of a pregnancy without first stopping its heart. Medical professionals interpreted “dilation and evacuation” abortions, which are widely considered safe, to fall under the new law’s umbrella.

Attorney General Ken Paxton filed a notice of appeal to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and said he would defend Senate Bill 8 at the U.S. Supreme Court, if necessary.
...
During the trial, witnesses and attorneys for Whole Woman’s Health said the law would have forced providers to stop performing second-trimester abortions.
...
Abortion providers did not challenge portions of the law that ban abortion after 20 weeks and regulate how doctors administer abortion-inducing pills.

This year’s Senate Bill 8 also requires fetal remains from miscarriages and abortions to be buried or cremated, language from previous state regulations that a federal judge struck down. U.S. District Court Judge Sam Sparks ruled in January that the rules “likely are unconstitutionally vague and impose an undue burden on the right to an abortion.” The 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in June allowed Paxton to appeal Sparks’ decision to block the rule. The legal challenge is still pending.

[Grifman]

People with Down's Syndrome have lives worth living:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ng/544325/

[Isgrimnur]

Anecdotal testimony. Not every one gets the same results. And not every parent is prepared or willing to give their example the same support. Not to mention that the impacts of DS are on a sliding scale.

[Paingod]

While I don't doubt that people with Down's Syndrome can lead happy, productive lives - I also respect a person's choice to opt out of a lifetime of providing extra care. I have seen some truly dedicated parents in my 40 years, and I respect each and every one of them for what they've done. I wouldn't think any less of any of them if they had the option to avoid that and chose to lead different lives.

I am completely pro-choice, and pro-science when it comes to understanding what the fertilized cells in your body might mean to you in the coming years.

It brings to mind an NPR show over the weekend that was discussing CRISPR and the doors it may be opening to allow us to alter genetic coding - possibly even at a level that allows a couple to be very selective about what traits their child may or may not have. The logic was basically that we're already doing this on a smaller scale without a serious ethical dilemma - in vitro fertilization allows parents to choose a gender. Why not eye color, height, and other traits? I think the cancelled show Almost Human included genetically enhanced 'superior' people that were all attractive, naturally fit, highly intelligent, and generally shunned by normal people.

[Zarathud]

Everyone who can get care and treatment can have a life worth living. I wouldn't trade my two Type 1 insulin dependent children for anything, but I would correct the genes for their deficient pancreas if possible. It's treatable with current tech but we do have to watch all the time to make sure they avoid a diabetic coma from low blood sugar (or long-term organ damage from high blood sugar. I wouldn't judge any person who is unwilling or unable to handle that commitment and life.

[Isgrimnur]

Indiana

Indiana's ban on "selective abortions," which was signed into law in 2016 by then-Gov. Mike Pence (R), is unconstitutional, a federal appeals court ruled on Thursday.

The law banned women from having abortions based on the gender, race or disability of the fetus.

The law imposes an "undue burden" on a woman's right to get an abortion, said the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago.

“The Supreme Court has been clear: the State may inform a woman’s decision before viability, but it cannot prohibit it,” Judge William Bauer wrote.

Similar bills passed or proposed in other states have specifically tried to ban abortions based on a Down syndrome diagnosis.

North Dakota, Louisiana and Ohio are the only states with these bans.

Anti-abortion groups argue the Indiana law and those like it protect discrimination of unborn children who are diagnosed with disabilities.
...
Abortion rights groups, however, argued such bans are just aimed at restricting access to abortion.

[Moliere]

Iowa governor signs strictest abortion regulation in America

Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds on Friday signed a law banning most abortions if a fetal heartbeat can be detected, or at around six weeks of pregnancy, marking the strictest abortion regulation in the nation — but setting the state up for a lengthy court fight.

The ban, set to take effect on July 1, has propelled Iowa to the front of a push among conservative statehouses jockeying to enact restrictive regulations on the medical procedure. Mississippi passed a law earlier this year banning abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, but it's on hold after a court challenge.

The Iowa law provides for some exemptions that allow abortions during a later pregnancy stage to save a pregnant woman's life or in some cases of rape and incest.
...
Critics argued the bill would ban abortions before some women even know they're pregnant. That likely sets the state up for a legal challenge, including from the same federal appeals court that three years ago struck down similar legislation approved in Arkansas and North Dakota.

In Iowa, the same Republican-majority Legislature passed a 20-week abortion ban last year. It's now in effect, though a provision requiring a three-day waiting period to get an abortion is tied up in a lawsuit filed by Planned Parenthood and the ACLU. Still, Republican lawmakers indicated they would push for more restrictions this session.

[Holman]

Most pregnant women don't even know it at six weeks.

[Moliere]

Most pregnant women don't even know it at six weeks.

Yup, that's why I included this part of the article:

"Critics argued the bill would ban abortions before some women even know they're pregnant. That likely sets the state up for a legal challenge, including from the same federal appeals court that three years ago struck down similar legislation approved in Arkansas and North Dakota."

It makes for a logistical challenge for those trying to complete the procedure before the deadline.

[Moliere]

Shocking no one:

Judge temporarily blocks Iowa's 'fetal heartbeat' law while lawsuit is resolved

Iowa's fetal heartbeat law, which would give the state the most restrictive abortion regulations in the country, has temporarily been put on hold.

Polk County District Court Judge Michael Huppert said at a hearing Friday that he would grant a temporary injunction while a lawsuit challenging the law's constitutionality is resolved.

The injunction stops the law from being enforced while the litigation works its way through the courts, but does not permanently block the law, which was set to take effect July 1.

[Isgrimnur]

Texas

A federal judge on Thursday blocked until at least next month hotly debated Texas rules mandating burial or cremation of fetal remains that were set to go into effect within days.

Texas

U.S. District Judge David Alan Ezra struck down a Texas law on Wednesday that would have required hospitals and clinics to bury or cremate fetal remains, causing another courtroom setback for state leaders and anti-abortion groups.
...
“I will tell you that in this regard and it was not even a close call, showed that the legal issues aside the implementation of this law as I have pointed out would cause and if allowed to go into effect, would be a violation of a woman’s right to obtain a legal abortion under the law as it stands today,” Ezra said Wednesday.

[Isgrimnur]

Oklahoma

A resolution essentially calling on state officials to ignore U.S. Supreme Court decisions legalizing abortion passed the Oklahoma House of Representatives on a voice vote Monday afternoon.

No discussion or debate was allowed on House Resolution 1004, by Rep. Chuck Strohm, R-Jenks. Afterward, Strohm was allowed a few minutes of personal privilege, during which he said the Supreme Court had violated “every act of decency and law” and the nation’s founding documents by “forcing the murder of unborn children on our society” through abortion.

He called on state officials to fulfill their oaths to uphold the Constitution and “to exercise their authority as appropriate in their respective jurisdictions to stop the murder of innocent unborn children by abortion.”

As a simple resolution, HR 1004 is considered a statement of policy and does not carry the weight of law.

[Isgrimnur]

DC

President Trump and Vice President Pence surprised thousands of protesters demonstrating against abortion on the Mall in Washington by making unannounced speeches at Friday’s March for Life.

Pence and his wife, Karen Pence, strode onstage to the delighted cheers of a roaring crowd carrying antiabortion posters and banners. Then Pence concluded his remarks with a second surprise: Trump, who addressed the march by video feed last year, had again prepared videotaped remarks for the marchers.

“When we look into the eyes of a newborn child, we see the beauty and the human soul and the majesty of God’s creation. We know that every life has meaning,” Trump said in his video, before listing his administration’s antiabortion actions and vowing to reject any legislation passed by the new Democratic-controlled House that “weakens” the campaign to prevent abortion access.

He said he signed a letter to Congress on Friday announcing his intent to veto any such law.
...
However, last year, when Trump addressed the crowd, some complained that the polarizing president distanced those who aren’t fans of Trump from the antiabortion movement. In this shifting environment, the march leaders picked science as their theme this year — under the headline, “Unique from Day One: Pro-Life is Pro-Science.”
...
The unexpected presidential and vice presidential addresses eclipsed the planned “pro-science” theme of the march, which the March for Life had promoted using two scientific papers. One, published by the antiabortion nonprofit the Charlotte Lozier Institute, describes the meeting of a sperm cell and an egg cell to form a zygote, a new type of cell distinct from the two that formed it. The paper then asks whether that cell is its own organism separate from the mother, or a part of a human like a liver cell or a skin cell.

The fact that the zygote “directs its own development,” leading it to eventually turn into a more complete embryo and eventually a baby in the right circumstances, leads the writer of the paper (a neurobiology and pediatrics professor at the University of Utah) to conclude that from the moment of conception, embryos “are indeed living individuals of the human species.”

[GreenGoo]

edit: I regret participating.

[hepcat]

You have to wonder how many of the women Trump has paid for sex have had abortions.

[Zarathud]

Trump needed the adoration of others who want to grab women by the pussy. They'll let him do anything.

[Isgrimnur]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Less than two weeks ago, Roberts joined the liberals in stopping a Louisiana abortion law that was nearly identical to a Texas law the court had struck down in 2016.
...
Roberts’s role in the abortion and death penalty cases were notable partly because he had been in dissent in the original decisions. His actions are not a sign that he has changed his mind; the ruling that the Louisiana law could not go into effect at this time was not a decision on the merits.

But they do seem to be an indication the chief justice believes lower courts must comply with Supreme Court precedents so long as they stand.
...
In the Louisiana abortion case, Roberts did not spell out his reasoning. Instead, he joined the liberal justices in keeping the law — which required doctors performing abortions to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals — from taking effect. Challengers had said it would probably leave only one clinic open, and one doctor who could provide abortions.

It is likely that because of the granted stay, the court will next term consider the merits of the law.

In that stay decision Feb. 7, Thomas, Alito and Gorsuch also dissented, along with new Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh.

[AWS260]

It's not really political, but this is a thoughtful essay by a woman who terminated her pregnancy after 21 weeks. I found it very moving.

There were only a few stories I could find about women who had a later abortion. I became very familiar with them over the next few days as my shock turned to desperation for any person, any information, that could help me decide what to do. The accounts have a common theme: A couple terminates a pregnancy because a tragic diagnosis guarantees the baby would not survive to see his or her first birthday, or the baby is certain to arrive a stillborn, or the mother’s and child’s lives are in grave danger. Each story is uniquely devastating, but the ones I could find tended to lack ambiguity. They are almost all black or white; death now or later. Either way, death seemed to be the certain conclusion whether by a medical procedure or by an act of nature.

What does one do when the story is not black or white at all, but a foggy, murky grey? We had no idea what outcome Jonah would have. “The data you seek does not exist.” Ours was not a choice of death now or later, it was a constellation of choices. Life with a probable disability, dependence, chronic suffering that could be severe or, by some miracle, not so severe, or no life at all.

Over the next few days, we made lists. Which outcomes were we willing to subject our child to, and which were dealbreakers? We weighed the pros and cons, pored over medical journals, took long, soul-searching walks, made the mistake of Googling and then quickly closed Google. We even looked up what Judaism had to say about the matter. (In cases like mine, Jewish texts across the ideological spectrum leave it to the parents and their doctors to decide.) Eventually, we realized the futility of these exercises; they were predicated on having some vague idea of Jonah’s prognosis. We had nothing.

[Isgrimnur]

WaPo

California Attorney General Xavier Becerra (D) brought the first major lawsuit Monday to block changes to the Title X family planning program that would shift tens of millions of dollars from abortion providers such as Planned Parenthood toward faith-based pregnancy clinics.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, seeks a court injunction to stop the rule from taking effect.
...
The rule imposes what administration officials have referred to as a “bright line” of physical and financial separation between the provision of family planning and abortion services, effectively requiring Planned Parenthood to drastically alter its operations, or else cease to receive an estimated $60 million in annual funding.

Opponents have called it a “gag” rule that compromises medical ethics and endangers the lives of patients because it explicitly bars doctors, nurses or other care personnel from referring a woman for an abortion.

[Isgrimnur]

Mississippi

Mississippi’s governor has signed into law one of the strictest abortion bans in the country, making it even more difficult for women to get abortions in a state where only one clinic still operates.

The bill, set to take effect in July, bans abortions after a doctor can detect a fetal heartbeat during an ultrasound, unless the mother’s health is at extreme risk. Heartbeats can be found just six weeks into pregnancy — before some women even know they are pregnant.
...
Kentucky’s governor signed a similar measure last week, which a federal judge quickly blocked, questioning its constitutionality. In January, an Iowa state court did the same to a 2018 law.
...
[Hillary Schneller, a staff attorney at the Center for Reproductive Rights in New York], the American Civil Liberties Union and the abortions rights group NARAL have called the law unconstitutional and reminiscent of another recent Mississippi measure banning abortions after 15 weeks. Last year, a federal judge declared that law unconstitutional.
...
For Mississippi’s reproductive rights activists, however, the fetal heartbeat law is simply the latest offense to women in a state that already makes it extremely difficult to get abortions. Chief among these roadblocks: a severe shortage of clinics. For at least eight years, there has only been one.
...
Then, when a woman actually gets an appointment, the state requires her to wait at least 24 hours for the procedure. During that time, she also needs state-mandated counseling and an ultrasound. If she’s under the age of 18, both her parents or a court must also consent.
...
On Twitter, a reporter at the Jackson Free Press, a local magazine, took stock of the state’s standing with a handful of health statistics: Mississippi has among the highest rates of infant and child mortality, he noted, along with some of the worst clinical care for its youngest residents.

[Jaymann]

Can somebody advise those freaks that this means eventually more black voters.

[gbasden]

That's why they do voter suppression and disenfranchisement, silly!

[Moliere]

Can somebody advise those freaks that this means eventually more black voters.

Thanks for admitting that all those abortions are people being killed.

[Default]

Can somebody advise those freaks that this means eventually more black voters.

Thanks for admitting that all those abortions are people being killed.

Good thing you have all those traffic stops to murder them after they grow up.

[GreenGoo]

Thanks for admitting that all those abortions are people being killed.

That's...not how logic works.

[Moliere]

Can somebody advise those freaks that this means eventually more black voters.

Thanks for admitting that all those abortions are people being killed.

Good thing you have all those traffic stops to murder them after they grow up.

If you were really concerned about the black population you should want to decrease the number of abortions. Currently 78% of the abortions in Mississippi are by black mothers.

In 2017 within the entire United States, police killed 19 unarmed black males, down from 36 in 2015, according to The Washington Post. In that same year in Mississippi around 2023 black children were aborted.

[Moliere]

Thanks for admitting that all those abortions are people being killed.

That's...not how logic works.

That's...not how I give a fuck.