Octopus Overlords

jztemple2 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:13 pm

Punisher wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:06 pm ambient occlusion

That's my stripper name

I had a character named that in City of Heroes.
She was wicked cool.

coopasonic wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:14 pm Mines run out.

Without spoilers have you run into other ways for making money? Im guessing there has to be. There has to be some rich aholes I can rob or something.

Is stamina gone, or just not visible? Specifically crawling vs prone, standing, running, etc.

Also: anyone know of a way to slow down the merc walk speed?

Scoop20906 wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 2:48 pm

coopasonic wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:14 pm Mines run out.

Without spoilers have you run into other ways for making money? Im guessing there has to be. There has to be some rich aholes I can rob or something.

Absolutely there are other ways to make money. Doing the missions is very important. Also intercepting diamond shipments.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:03 pm Is stamina gone, or just not visible? Specifically crawling vs probe, standing, running, etc.

Also: anyone know of a way to slow down the merc walk speed?

You can crouch or go prone and move, if that's what you are asking, that will make the merc move more slowly. The walking speed doesn't appear to be adjustable, although I guess you can just move a square at a time. I'll have to try that.

I haven't noticed anything like a stamina stat, the action point system would seem to cover that.

I'm fighting the fort battle right now and I've really found the value of silencers . If other enemies don't see the kill, the game doesn't start the combat sequence so you can continue sneaking around. I don't remember the old JA2 combat so I have nothing with which to compare the current version, but I'm really enjoying it. There are a lot of nuances to combat, little things like positioning, using the right weapon, overwatch, etc.

Barry's shaped charges have also saved my bacon a couple of times. Mmm... bacon

Regarding money, it's important when you enter a new locale that you talk to everyone, whether they have that green head symbol or not. Anyone not have a generic label like "villager" or "laborer", etc. You might end up with a mission, or maybe access to a special item, or just Intel.

Also, in each location, make a thorough search of the entire map, including upper floors. The ALT key toggle displays things like hackable items, scrap or med plants, but only if one of your mercs has moved past them already.

Any input on how to improve your 'freebie' merc? It seems to me like they're considerably weaker than even the lower tiered pre-made mercs, and the stat points barely trickle in (I have yet to earn a single point of Mechanical for instance.) Is the only option weeks of training?

Blackhawk wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:37 pm Any input on how to improve your 'freebie' merc? It seems to me like they're considerably weaker than even the lower tiered pre-made mercs, and the stat points barely trickle in (I have yet to earn a single point of Mechanical for instance.) Is the only option weeks of training?

Min/Max and leave the special skills to the specialists?

My guy a good ways into the game:

Health: 79
Agility: 89
Dexterity: 87
Strength: 77
Wisdom: 86

Leadership:72
Marksmanship: 88
Mechanical: 0
Explosives:0
Medical:0

I remember why I loved JA2 now. It’s the sandbox feel to the game and the game reacts to your action but still buggers on whether you do anything or not.

I just ambushed my first diamond delivery. A great way to make some money and was neat how the delivery group were just walking through the map on their way. I still have a massive money problem and I’m starting to run into tougher areas but we are still save scumming along and having a ton of fun.

I did an ambush where they went to the starting island.
Question.
If I train the villagers to defend and I'm not around do I still get the rewards or do I have to keep someone behind?

Punisher wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:05 pm Question.
If I train the villagers to defend and I'm not around do I still get the rewards or do I have to keep someone behind?

The loot ends up in the locale's stash. You'll have to send someone to retrieve it. That's pretty much true for every location, anything you don't walk away with stays in the local stash, even if the enemy occupies it.

I just finished the prison map, at least the above ground section. The enemy AI behaved... strangely, although perhaps not as a bug but as a feature . It was a pretty brutal fight but with some skill, some luck and some (but not a lot ) of save scumming I managed to win the fight without losing a merc, although as you can see from the image below, it was a near run thing.



I'm afraid I blew through quite a lot of money training up militia across the map, probably more than in the long run I'll be happy with. But while I might be able to afford one more merc as a runner/loot picker-upper, running another squad would seem to be out of any reasonable plan for now.

Oh, 23.3 hours played, still on my first campaign

I'm at 27.6 hours. Had a brutal story mission last night that downed two characters and I barely made it through without losses. Luckily there was a hospital nearby so I could heal up quick as... well, anything else would be spoiler territory. The hospital bill was $25k and I currently have zero income. On the plus side I have $185k in the bank so hopefully that keeps me going until I can get income flowing again.

It's the business sim part of this that really is keeping me on my toes. I have to remember how much six mercs are costing me each week; every hackable cash register and phone is worth finding. My latest operation at the prison means I missed intercepting a diamond shipment

I have just shy of 30 hours into it now (including one "all-nighter" which no game has done that to me in the last decade or so) so I feel qualified to offer up my initial impressions which overall are very favorable (despite my cons). I am hoping the JA2 modding community collectively takes care of many of my complaints, but I can see me spending a lot of time in this platform over the next few years. It will also be interesting to compare this to Xenonauts 2 which releases tomorrow!!

PROS
+ environmental/character graphics look great

+ storylines/side quests good - definitely an upgrade - a village feels "alive"

+ strategy layer - sandbox feel retained, so I don’t feel like it is on rails

+ 3D combat/bullet tracking system truly awesome

+ differentiation between weapons classes/weapons - so far good

+/- I don’t mind the lack of to hit %, but I still find it difficult to entirely rely on merc comments if easy or hard shot- seems inconsistent and I am still getting the X-Com styled misses when they are directly next to enemy outside of cover and miss 3 shots in a row


CONS
- I really don’t like the arbitrary restrictions on sector maps - makes it very difficult to adequately plan tactics/flanking because it is not consistent (e.g. certain areas around buildings, water, hill sides cannot traverse) almost need an overlay showing valid paths

- Now that it is 3D I really would like to have the Pheonix Point soldier view so that I can determine line of sight before enemy in view, really hard to tell this unless try and fire and see brick representation - but that only works if enemy present

- I am still having difficulty trying to determine where cover is and from what direction, maybe it needs to be brighter or a different color for me

- I would like a true sat map of the sector (OK if available only if I have intel), I am hoping someone will find a cheat key (similar to Rift Breaker) that allows higher viewpoint

- we somewhat lost the ability to coordinate arrival times of squads (workaround to just have one squad wait in enemy territory not quite the same)

- we somewhat lost the ability to coordinate an effective ambush (e.g. IRL fire on mark, everyone has a separate target) slight work around using overwatch prior to springing ambush but still very clunky

- streamlining of inventory system (I get why they did it, but I miss JA2)

- X-Com styled "free move" for enemies (absolutely hate it)

- hidden stamina system for "tired" MERCs, I would like to have a warning before they simply have to "rest for 12+ hours" definitely puts a crimp in strategic planning

- not seeing large differentiation for armor types

- steamlined parts system - I get why they did it, but its just a bit too streamlined for my taste

- looting UI clunky, should be able to drop into sector stash from loot object

- melee system UI clunky, not intuitive and cause for a lot of frustration


MINOR COMPLAINTS
- incorrect when they quote "$XXX daily fee (includes medical of $YYYY)" - it should say that fee "excludes medical")

- the sharing of squad supplies/splitting is very clunky (the UI should show which party is getting what) and allow to split anywhere

- the weapon mod UI is not very intuitive (I also didn’t realize I could easily mod my starter weapons until 2 weeks into it, they really need a tutorial tip on that)

- I shouldn’t have to go to my manage squads screen to see a decent finance summary (JA2 provided a cleaner/better snapshot)

- way too small of a selection for IMP faces/bodies

- need better descriptions for certain weapon characteristics/mod effects (e.g. "better reliability" is to generic, if it "slows condition loss" then say that

- some quest bugs still present (treasure finding chicken, mansion, etc.)

- I should be able to pick where my soldier provides first aid to another (workaround is to move first then use first aid command)

- the action bar at the bottom tries to be like X-Com but takes some getting used to - also not consistent with exiting certain modes

- overwatch graphic should show blocked areas and be adjustable (Pheonix Point got this right)

QUESTION
- Does anyone know what the "exchange rate" is on removing weapon mods? The few that I have tried don't seem to give me back what I put into them

Tampa_Gamer wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:17 am- looting UI clunky, should be able to drop into sector stash from loot object

If you simply leave loot in the container where you found it, it should be available from the sector stash, iirc.

- I should be able to pick where my soldier provides first aid to another (workaround is to move first then use first aid command)

I haven't had a problem with that. If I need to provide first aid during combat, I select my medic, click the bandage command, then click on the wounded character and my medic moves to them and begins bandaging them. Am I misunderstanding the issue?

- overwatch graphic should show blocked areas and be adjustable (Pheonix Point got this right)

The overwatch overlay does show areas with no line of sight by using a different fill pattern. I've never played Pheonix Point, so I don't know what you mean by adjustable in that sense.

jztemple2 wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:31 am some (but not a lot ) of save scumming

I got mad and save scummed the hell out of a set-piece encounter last night.
Edit: Because Spoilers! apparently.

From reading Tampa Gamer’s impressions I’m also finding myself wanting to have a coordinated “Fire on my mark” command to attack multiple enemies at once. You can even make it interesting where the success of a coordinated strike isn’t guaranteed if the shooters are low level characters, perhaps with a character firing early or missing the command but the success percentage increases as the team gets more experienced and a positive modifier if a character has a high leadership score.

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:13 am If you simply leave loot in the container where you found it, it should be available from the sector stash, iirc.

Thanks, I was looking for the r.click "drop" button that we use from the inventory side - will try that tonight

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:13 am I haven't had a problem with that. If I need to provide first aid during combat, I select my medic, click the bandage command, then click on the wounded character and my medic moves to them and begins bandaging them. Am I misunderstanding the issue?

In a few situations the medic positioned themselves in the line of fire between the wounded and the enemy when they could have also accessed the wounded person from the other side (with cover) so it was more of a positioning thing

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:13 am The overwatch overlay does show areas with no line of sight by using a different fill pattern. I've never played Pheonix Point, so I don't know what you mean by adjustable in that sense.

I may have issue with my brightness then, I will look for that fill pattern tonight- thanks. Pheonix Point allowed the player to adjust not only the length but also the width of the trigger "cone" which was helpful to reduce the harder shots where the enemy would still have partial cover

I've been playing the game for 29 hours. I have a stack of lenses and a stack of steel pipes and around 800 parts and have yet to mod any weapon in any way. I also carry a dozen extra weapons and never use any of them, but I carry them because maybe I'll want to switch at some point for some reason. I guess I'll have an alternative when I run out of ammo.

I need more gunpowder!

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:25 pm I need more gunpowder!

Perhaps we should be able to break-down excess ammo for its gunpowder/parts at a given ratio

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:25 pm I've been playing the game for 29 hours. I have a stack of lenses and a stack of steel pipes and around 800 parts and have yet to mod any weapon in any way.

Good gosh, haven't you equipped all your long guns with silencers? It's awesome to take out a lone wolf sentry without alerting the rest of the enemies.

Tampa_Gamer wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:40 pm

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:25 pm I need more gunpowder!

Perhaps we should be able to break-down excess ammo for its gunpowder/parts at a given ratio

I'm imagining the incredibly dull process of doing this manually though I suppose not that much worse than manually creating ammo (talking about in real life, not the game mechanics).

jztemple2 wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:20 pm

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:25 pm I've been playing the game for 29 hours. I have a stack of lenses and a stack of steel pipes and around 800 parts and have yet to mod any weapon in any way.

Good gosh, haven't you equipped all your long guns with silencers? It's awesome to take out a lone wolf sentry without alerting the rest of the enemies.

That's what the guy with the sharpened machete is for. Saves ammo too!

When I first looked at the weapon mods I didn't have the parts to make the good ones, now I have the parts but for some reason I can't be bothered. I'm amused that I can add a suppressor to a shotgun though. Of course then I would have to stop using Ma's shotgun.

I think the thing I want most to see in a mod is the ability to put special crafting materials into the squad stash instead of being forced to carry them in the limited backpack space. I suspect that it is intended to pressure you into using them instead of hoarding them until you have better weapons, but it's still a pain in the butt, because I'm gonna be a packrat hoarder no matter what.

...and all the damn throwables. I stopped picking up tear gas and smoke grenades because I have to have room for that third set of night vision goggles I will never equip.

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:25 pm I'm amused that I can add a suppressor to a shotgun though.

I've used tactical shotguns with suppressors in enough other games that I've always assumed they're a real thing. Is that not the case?

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:31 pm

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:25 pm I'm amused that I can add a suppressor to a shotgun though.

I've used tactical shotguns with suppressors in enough other games that I've always assumed they're a real thing. Is that not the case?

Technically, yes.

The Salvo 12 can reduce noise to under 140 decibels

140 decibels ain't quiet.

120 – 140 decibels: Such as, a rock concert, auto racing, or a hammer pounding a nail
125 – 155 decibels: Like, firecrackers or fireworks, or a jet engine

Re: the lack of a decent ‘ambush’ capability, that’s one thing I fondly remember from JA2: Seeing, hearing, or knowing a redshirt is in a certain area (maybe he fled into a house, wounded), but not able to see him.

Silently put a merc on the roof, one at a door, and the others at corners, then wait, or flush him out and let the fireworks begin.

Or, depending on your mood and patience level, just blow the house up with an explosive!

I would like smarter AI. If Nails is on my team and detects a mine the rest of the team should be smart enough to avoid them as I don't think he'd keep it a secret.
As it is I am just using Nails exclusively in mined areas and walking around disarming every single one of them just in case.
I would like to be able to rearm them after we pass though.

Punisher wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:07 pm I would like to be able to rearm them after we pass though.

Good point, I think I recall that in JA2 we could collect them and rebury them for future use, right?

In JA2, you needed a metal detector to find, but at least when you did it placed a blue flag so that the rest of your party didn't step on it

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:58 am I got mad and save scummed the hell out of a set-piece encounter last night.

Spoiler:

There was a kidnapped woman in need of rescue, and if you don't intervene, they just straight up murder her after a timer counts down.

Hey now!

Tampa_Gamer wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:09 pm

Punisher wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:07 pm I would like to be able to rearm them after we pass though.

Good point, I think I recall that in JA2 we could collect them and rebury them for future use, right?

Correct.

Punisher wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:07 pm I would like smarter AI. If Nails is on my team and detects a mine the rest of the team should be smart enough to avoid them as I don't think he'd keep it a secret.
As it is I am just using Nails exclusively in mined areas and walking around disarming every single one of them just in case.
I would like to be able to rearm them after we pass though.

And why does Nails notice the mine, tell me about it and then proceed to stomp on it? You have to move him one space at a time so you can react to the mine. QoL potential there. Alternatively give me a "everyone stop moving right now" button.

You can set your team to overwatch outside of turns, then pop one enemy to start the encounter. The problem is that the enemies seem to get a 'free move' at the start of combat that doesn't seem to trigger overwatch (not only that, it starts the overwatching characters with no AP.) It makes ambushes difficult (and ambushing was my go-to in JA2.) They really need to start combat in turns and not let the enemies all scatter.

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:19 pm They really need to start combat in turns and not let the enemies all scatter.

My understanding is that this is something that was introduced with thew newest XCOM / XCOM 2 games and for whatever reason, is the new acceptable standard. It feels...wrong.

EDIT: Apologies!

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:21 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:19 pm They really need to start combat in turns and not let the enemies all scatter.

My understanding is that this is something that was introduced with thew newest X-COMM / X-COMM 2 games and for whatever reason, is the new acceptable standard. It feels...wrong.

One M, no hyphen. The old X-COM games where hyphenated, the new ones are not.

Anyway, Maybe this is why I don't see much issue with it. I am used to it. 600 hours of XCOM2 will do that to you.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:11 pm

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:58 am I got mad and save scummed the hell out of a set-piece encounter last night.

Spoiler:

There was a kidnapped woman in need of rescue, and if you don't intervene, they just straight up murder her after a timer counts down.

Hey now!

Sorry, I didn't think of it as a spoiler. The timer is an actual game mechanic that is displayed on screen when you load into the sector, so it isn't really a secret that you stumble into.

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:29 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:11 pm

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:58 am I got mad and save scummed the hell out of a set-piece encounter last night.

Spoiler:

There was a kidnapped woman in need of rescue, and if you don't intervene, they just straight up murder her after a timer counts down.

Hey now!

Sorry, I didn't think of it as a spoiler. The timer is an actual game mechanic that is displayed on screen when you load into the sector, so it isn't really a secret that you stumble into.

Ah, my bad, that does change things. And I’m usually the one mocking people on here for getting feathers ruffled over ‘spoilers’.

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:24 pm Anyway, Maybe this is why I don't see much issue with it. I am used to it. 600 hours of XCOM2 will do that to you.

Maybe, but I loved XCOM and despised XCOM2. The prior felt like a tactical game (like JA3), while the latter felt like a puzzle game.

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:23 pm

Tampa_Gamer wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:40 pm

coopasonic wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:25 pm I need more gunpowder!

Perhaps we should be able to break-down excess ammo for its gunpowder/parts at a given ratio

I'm imagining the incredibly dull process of doing this manually though I suppose not that much worse than manually creating ammo (talking about in real life, not the game mechanics).

It appears there are ways to combine some items to gain gunpowder (putting in spoiler just in case)