Fight for the Future (ww) - Human's Win

[Newcastle]

So, the commander was killed or he didn't kill last night. I assume wolf killed a wolf? ...oopsie.

I'm thinking Unagi. Was he protecting a fellow wolf yesterday and why was he twisting my words to say I said there was no risk in Lagom's play.

Now, this post actually gives me pause. Almost missed it.

Didn't you claim to be Commander, Lassr? Didn't you actually kill Isgrimnur? If you did, why did you write this?

Was i supposed to come out and say I was the commander? I was not trying to put a target on my head as the last Cyborg.

No. You were supposed to make a new thread, and a new post with the following:

Spoiler:

COMING SOON BATTLESTAR GALACTICA 2023

[Holman]

Ok - read the rules. Humans get 1 guess per day.

Lagom W/ your blessing and after a bit of discussion I want to submit a time code guess to Doc. Vortex.

I have one time code.

Newcastle, your post here confuses me. You can only submit a guess if you have three codes. Are you claiming Scientist?

In any case, if you have three codes, then why wait? And why ask permission?

[Unagi]

Anyway, here's a follow-up question to why you voted for me (you pleaded ignorance): Why didn't you remove your vote for me when you realized that I was lying?

(all times CDT)

I wake up that morning to read your claim of Alpha-Wolf, and place a vote down on you.
08:46 : I vote Lagom
08:49 : I ask the Sniper to shoot you
08:58 : I ask Holman why he concludes that the Sniper is dead

- - Now I get called into my child's school to help handle a situation

10:02 : Punisher places his vote on Newcastle
10:23 : You announce that you were lying, and place your vote on Punisher
10:34 : Holman and Newcastle have dropped their Lagom votes, and moved to Punisher - with Newcastle commenting "might drop a vote back on lagom, but for now curious to see where this train leads."
10:39 : You point out that you only need one more vote to move this trap to completion - and ask where is Unagi (16 minutes after you announce your trap).

13:51 : Now I am back, and getting caught up. 3 hours after you 'sprang the trap'
13:57 : 6 minutes of reading (in reverse order, sadly) - and I removed my Lagom Lite vote, but now I'm also aware that you were lying (not because you have revealed it, but because I finally am aware of both my teammates being dead)
14:07 : Now I'm actually caught up to where you reveal that you were lying.
14:09 : I express how much of an ass I feel like for not noticing that my two freaking teammate are dead.
14:15 : You answer one of my questions about it all, and express how you need me to move my vote to Punisher.
14:21 : I comply and vote for Punisher, as I'm finally now seeing what the layout of the game is and what you just did.

It took me all of 6 minutes after I got back to "remove my vote for you", Lagom.

From where I am totally caught up to where you "Spring the trap" (14:07) - I took less than 15 minutes to absorb it all and move my vote to Punisher.

If I were a wolf and waiting for other wolves to try and win the day, I don't think I would have raced back home, got caught up, and then just immediately voted for Punisher.

And a third question: Did you slip something in Lassr's soup? His wolf play seems uncharacteristically moronic; targeting a player who was almost certainly a fellow Wolf.

I really can't answer that. Nor do I need to explain Lassr's actions in order to maintain my own innocence.
I think that Lassr may have thought I was going to be protected (Lassr wouldn't hold actual 'distrust' of me, so he is more likely to worry that people may have trusted me and protected me).
I also wondered that Lassr may have actually thought I was a partner.

If I were the wolf, I would have likely tried to kill Holman or Newcastle last night, myself - so I don't really get the Isgrimnur kill. Although I also honestly must say that I felt maybe Lassr was trying to just end the game - as both Isgrimnur and Lassr (from my perspective, if you can give a minute to try and leave your own perspective) were pretty well 'cornered' by the meta-situation of 'timing' and all that.

Am I to take from your question that you feel that killing Isgrimnur would be characteristically moronic for me?

[Newcastle]

Time Portal Codes Rules:
Three 5-digit time portal codes are initially assigned to random players, except the Scientist.
Players holding a time code coordinate know they have it and may choose to reveal this at their discretion.
The Scientist can scan living players at night to find a time code coordinate.
If a player with a time code coordinate is killed, the code is reassigned to another living player.
Both Robotic Werewolves and Cyborg Hunters can collect these time code coordinates to prevent the Humans from unlocking the time portal.
Each player can guess the full set of codes once per day. Guesses should be communicated privately to the game moderator.
Incorrect guesses have no direct consequences.
Players can pass their code to another player, but this must be announced publicly in the main game thread.


@lagom

Actually, Holman should share the codes. The borgs & wolves can prevent us from winning by sitting on the codes. But there is no Lock up feature or causing us to lose if they have our codes. Its more imperative for him to share the knowledge than sit on it.
Nowhere in the rules does it say that the non humans can wreck the portal.

[Unagi]

It's just that, from where we stand right now, it seems much more likely that you are the Alpha.

I don't expect you to think I must certainly not be the Alpha, but man - Occam, I don't think, would agree at all with your "seems much more likely" analysis here.

[Newcastle]

Ok - read the rules. Humans get 1 guess per day.

Lagom W/ your blessing and after a bit of discussion I want to submit a time code guess to Doc. Vortex.

I have one time code.

Newcastle, your post here confuses me. You can only submit a guess if you have three codes. Are you claiming Scientist?

In any case, if you have three codes, then why wait? And why ask permission?

permission: I am a team player only reason.

You are allowed to guess the code, you dont NEED all 3. I was using some inductive reasoning to see how the code would be. If you have the other, we have 2/3. You probably can see a pattern that I can't.

[Newcastle]

Holman - i am engineer #2

[Holman]

My basic question, Newcastle, is whether (and how) you have three codes?

Unless you're actually planning on *guessing* a correct five-digit number...?

[Newcastle]

I have 1 code:
12345

[Holman]

Players can pass their code to another player, but this must be announced publicly in the main game thread.

OK this rule confuses me just a bit.

If a player has a code, do they pass it by announcing "I am passing my code to So-and-so," or do they have to state the code itself?

[Lassr]

I'll wait. Try the time code, as I said I'll be a good overlord. But if you wanted one more day I would think Unagi and I would need protecting tonight (from your point of view) One of us dying wins the game for the other. Me dying wins it for the wolf team. Unagi dying wins it for me and you in a minor way...but you live. I'll only ask you to take out the garbage once a week!

[Holman]

Newcastle, I was typing while you posted some answers, so pardon my confusion.

[Newcastle]

Ok am sorry for the spammy posts guys.


I got 1 code this morning in the PMs. I am assuming, that this was Issy's code that got recycled to me after Issy's death.

[Holman]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

[TheMix]

Just reading along, but I think this is a mistake, right?

The night was eventful, claiming Isgrimnur, one of the Robotic Werewolves."

======================
Remaining Players:
...
Isgrimnur
...

[Unagi]

So, the commander was killed or he didn't kill last night. I assume wolf killed a wolf? ...oopsie.

I'm thinking Unagi. Was he protecting a fellow wolf yesterday and why was he twisting my words to say I said there was no risk in Lagom's play.

Now, this post actually gives me pause. Almost missed it.

Didn't you claim to be Commander, Lassr? Didn't you actually kill Isgrimnur? If you did, why did you write this?

Ask yourself why a "Commander-Lassr" wouldn't have taken a shot at Unagi instead of Isgrimnur - a person he was accused of being a wolf the entire game, and left the more obvious "fit to be tied" target of "Isgrimnur" for the masses to mull over the next day?


Also, it just struck me. If I was the commander, and I killed a wolf last night with my attack... Would I have made the posts that Lassr made. He never said anything like "Yes, I DID THAT!" or anything. It took a few posts before he casually explained why he targeted Isgrimnur - that's it. You'd think there would be just a smidge of pride or excitement about that, in reaction to the news - no?

[TheMix]

Just reading along, but I think this is a mistake, right?

The night was eventful, claiming Isgrimnur, one of the Robotic Werewolves."

======================
Remaining Players:
...
Isgrimnur
...

Edit: Good lord. Never mind. I should have continued reading first. There are like 2 more pages of comments. I'm sure it's been addressed.

[Lassr]

Spoiler:

COMING SOON BATTLESTAR GALACTICA 2023

Spoiler:

I've been working out how I could do it while in the office. I'm not sure I have the time to commit to it anymore, This game was hard enough. But again playing takes more time than moderating. I'm going to test taking my personal laptop to work and setting up a hotspot on my phone to access OO.

[Lassr]

So, the commander was killed or he didn't kill last night. I assume wolf killed a wolf? ...oopsie.

I'm thinking Unagi. Was he protecting a fellow wolf yesterday and why was he twisting my words to say I said there was no risk in Lagom's play.

Now, this post actually gives me pause. Almost missed it.

Didn't you claim to be Commander, Lassr? Didn't you actually kill Isgrimnur? If you did, why did you write this?

Ask yourself why a "Commander-Lassr" wouldn't have taken a shot at Unagi instead of Isgrimnur - a person he was accused of being a wolf the entire game, and left the more obvious "fit to be tied" target of "Isgrimnur" for the masses to mull over the next day?


Also, it just struck me. If I was the commander, and I killed a wolf last night with my attack... Would I have made the posts that Lassr made. He never said anything like "Yes, I DID THAT!" or anything. It took a few posts before he casually explained why he targeted Isgrimnur - that's it. You'd think there would be just a smidge of pride or excitement about that, in reaction to the news - no?

Sorry I was not more jubilant, but I thought Issy the more likely candidate than you, and also didn't think there would be any protection on him. So higher kill chance and great odds of being a wolf.

[Newcastle]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

Could you pass your code to me or lagom? Says in the rules you can.

[Unagi]

• Announcement: Dr. Vortex publicly announces the results of the night, including any deaths, successful scans, and the effects of protective barriers.

Lassr. Sorry bro.

I think I may have found the problem with your little version of events that the others will also find compelling.


Lassr's claim that he killed Isgrimnur with his "Commander" power, implies that there was a protective barrier keeping us from reading about 2 kills last night.
But we only had 1 kill - and no news was reported regarding the effects of a protective barrier.

There was no blocked wolf-kill last night.

[Holman]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

Could you pass your code to me or lagom? Says in the rules you can.

 Scoop, I pass the code I received last night to Lagom Lite. 
 


(This will also answer my earlier question about whether I can pass a code without revealing it.)

[Unagi]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

Could you pass your code to me or lagom? Says in the rules you can.

I realize that it's legit to try and go for your time-portal win, but I think it's a little obnoxious of you guys to do that to me - after I helped you all not just lose yesterday.
I thought we were a team. And, it's ticking me off that I did all that, only to be used. After the blow dealt to the Cyborg Hunters on the first night, I have no shame in this game being a loss for the Cyborg Hunters - but I don't know if I'd rather just hand you guys the game or the wolves at this point - based mostly on what I see as a pretty bold betrayal by you guys.

How would you deal with this if you were (I would say 'me'), but I'll just say "the last cyborg hunter". I have a chance to have a shared victory with the humans - but you guys clearly have no interest in that. So -

[Holman]

I am of course the Scientist, if that isn't already understood.

[Unagi]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

Could you pass your code to me or lagom? Says in the rules you can.

 Scoop, I pass the code I received last night to Lagom Lite. 
 


(This will also answer my earlier question about whether I can pass a code without revealing it.)

I have to imagine you can - as it's clear one could just say it publicly.

[Unagi]

I realize, Lagom, that you are thinking I'm alpha-bot - so the below doesn't apply to that --

But I can demonstrate that I'm not a beta-bot with a secret vote placed.

 Withdraw Lassr 
 


I've removed my vote on Lassr (FOR NOW) and I will not place another vote immediately - and by doing this - if I had a secret vote placed, I will have lost it and the ability to place it again.

Beta-bots (2 players): Have a double vote in elimination rounds. Both beta wolves have the ability to cast a secret additional vote on any player of their choosing during a voting phase. This secret vote can be cast independently of their public vote and does not need to be on the same player. However, the beta wolf must first cast a public vote and not remove it when casting their secret vote. If they remove their public vote, they must immediately cast another public vote, or their secret vote is removed and lost. This power can be used by both beta wolves on the same day. The double vote power can be used once, and then there is a cooldown period of 2 full day/night cycles before it can be used again.

Frankly, it strikes me that we should have forced everyone to do that yesterday- to neuter the beta-bots.

[Lassr]

• Announcement: Dr. Vortex publicly announces the results of the night, including any deaths, successful scans, and the effects of protective barriers.

Lassr. Sorry bro.

I think I may have found the problem with your little version of events that the others will also find compelling.


Lassr's claim that he killed Isgrimnur with his "Commander" power, implies that there was a protective barrier keeping us from reading about 2 kills last night.
But we only had 1 kill - and no news was reported regarding the effects of a protective barrier.

There was no blocked wolf-kill last night.

What is reported if the Wolf targeted Issy and the Commander targeted Issy? I said nothing about a protection. Just that we must have targeted the same target. It is the only explanation.

[Lagom Lite]

• Announcement: Dr. Vortex publicly announces the results of the night, including any deaths, successful scans, and the effects of protective barriers.

Lassr. Sorry bro.

I think I may have found the problem with your little version of events that the others will also find compelling.


Lassr's claim that he killed Isgrimnur with his "Commander" power, implies that there was a protective barrier keeping us from reading about 2 kills last night.
But we only had 1 kill - and no news was reported regarding the effects of a protective barrier.

There was no blocked wolf-kill last night.

That IS compelling evidence. If correct, it means that for you to be a Wolf, Lassr and you both must have targeted Isgrimnur, or you would have elected to not use your Wolf Night kill. Either scenario is unlikely.

SCOOP - is this a correct interpretation? Would we have been informed of protective barriers preventing Night kills?

[Lassr]

• Announcement: Dr. Vortex publicly announces the results of the night, including any deaths, successful scans, and the effects of protective barriers.

Lassr. Sorry bro.

I think I may have found the problem with your little version of events that the others will also find compelling.


Lassr's claim that he killed Isgrimnur with his "Commander" power, implies that there was a protective barrier keeping us from reading about 2 kills last night.
But we only had 1 kill - and no news was reported regarding the effects of a protective barrier.

There was no blocked wolf-kill last night.

That IS compelling evidence. If correct, it means that for you to be a Wolf, Lassr and you both must have targeted Isgrimnur, or you would have elected to not use your Wolf Night kill. Either scenario is unlikely.

SCOOP - is this a correct interpretation? Would we have been informed of protective barriers preventing Night kills?

that is my understanding which is why we targeted the same player last night. Me in hopes he is an unprotected wolf and Unagi in hopes that he was an unprotected Sniper, is my guess.

[Newcastle]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

Could you pass your code to me or lagom? Says in the rules you can.

 Scoop, I pass the code I received last night to Lagom Lite. 
 


(This will also answer my earlier question about whether I can pass a code without revealing it.)

Holman, i think you can pass it to me to IF you wish. Nothing in the rules says you can't do multiple players or 1 pass /day. Soooo...i think, you can also send me the code also. Also, not to toot my own horn...but i am a puzzle guy.

[ of course w/ Scoop's blessing]

[Lagom Lite]

Man, it's such a rare luxury in these games to be a confirmed good guy in complete control, watching the bad guys fight each other about who is the lesser evil.

[Newcastle]

Spoiler:

COMING SOON BATTLESTAR GALACTICA 2023

Spoiler:

I've been working out how I could do it while in the office. I'm not sure I have the time to commit to it anymore, This game was hard enough. But again playing takes more time than moderating. I'm going to test taking my personal laptop to work and setting up a hotspot on my phone to access OO.

Spoiler:

gotcha! Totally get it time wise and the work thing. Yours were always enjoyable.

[Holman]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

Could you pass your code to me or lagom? Says in the rules you can.

 Scoop, I pass the code I received last night to Lagom Lite. 
 


(This will also answer my earlier question about whether I can pass a code without revealing it.)

Holman, i think you can pass it to me to IF you wish. Nothing in the rules says you can't do multiple players or 1 pass /day. Soooo...i think, you can also send me the code also. Also, not to toot my own horn...but i am a puzzle guy.

[ of course w/ Scoop's blessing]

I'll wait for Scoop's reply.

And FWIW, I took a second look and realized that there could certainly be a pattern. I've already submitted a guess to Scoop.

[Unagi]

• Announcement: Dr. Vortex publicly announces the results of the night, including any deaths, successful scans, and the effects of protective barriers.

Lassr. Sorry bro.

I think I may have found the problem with your little version of events that the others will also find compelling.


Lassr's claim that he killed Isgrimnur with his "Commander" power, implies that there was a protective barrier keeping us from reading about 2 kills last night.
But we only had 1 kill - and no news was reported regarding the effects of a protective barrier.

There was no blocked wolf-kill last night.

That IS compelling evidence. If correct, it means that for you to be a Wolf, Lassr and you both must have targeted Isgrimnur, or you would have elected to not use your Wolf Night kill. Either scenario is unlikely.

SCOOP - is this a correct interpretation? Would we have been informed of protective barriers preventing Night kills?

that is my understanding which is why we targeted the same player last night. Me in hopes he is an unprotected wolf and Unagi in hopes that he was an unprotected Sniper, is my guess.

I find it odd to think that both the Commander and the Wolves targeted the same exact worst target. And for what it's worth, I am of the opinion that Lagom wasn't shot dead on the morning of day 1 SOLEY because the Sniper was already dead, but why (in your reasoning, Lassr) does the specific role of the last cyborg hunter come into play when there is only one left?

Lagom, I would submit to you that Lassr has been (like everyone - EXCEPT ME*) trying to figure out exactly who his team really is. I imagine from his perspective, Issy could very well have been the Sniper and you were not shot dead on the morning of Day 1, because Isgrimnur was working - and simply not available. From Lassr perspective (like your own) there was actually a chance that I was indeed trying to 'delay' the kill of Punisher, etc,etc, and that perhaps I was indeed his wolf partner. I am not, but that may only have become clear to Lassr 'today'.

Lassr and I, on the other hand (no matter which one of us you think is the last wolf) - we both, likely, had very high suspicions that Holman, Necastle, and yourself were on the Human Team.

The last two wolves would still be wondering who their teammate was. We had no data on Issy. We had plenty of data on me. I think that helps explain why Lassr targeted Isgrimnur.
*I was not trying to figure out who my teammates were, I did not have to figure that part out at all (well, once it was pointed out to me)

[Unagi]

Looking at the code Newcastle offers and the one I have, I don't see an obvious pattern leading to an easy guess of the third.

Could you pass your code to me or lagom? Says in the rules you can.

 Scoop, I pass the code I received last night to Lagom Lite. 
 


(This will also answer my earlier question about whether I can pass a code without revealing it.)

Holman, i think you can pass it to me to IF you wish. Nothing in the rules says you can't do multiple players or 1 pass /day. Soooo...i think, you can also send me the code also. Also, not to toot my own horn...but i am a puzzle guy.

[ of course w/ Scoop's blessing]

No, I don't think he can secretly pass the code to two people - and I would like to think that Lagom wouldn't get the code until tonight or something - because otherwise - well, seems a little broke.

[Unagi]

Lassr,

Don't do what I did. Do not remove your vote for me.
First - it doesn't actually prove either of us isn't alpha OR beta, as we could have no vote to lose today had we used it yesterday - etc...
(although it does prove there is no secret vote in place, so there is still some value in that later - perhaps - but for now I like to think you have 2 votes on me)

But more to the point - if the humans are just going to ignore me, I may be compelled to hand myself over to you - and you just need three votes on me...
Now, you may not have that extra vote, so this could be pointless - but - I just want to keep that option available (to you, and to me).

Now - I don't expect you to reply as if you are a beta wolf, etc. - so, let's not even bother with that - but I wanted to just get this expressed.

[Unagi]

I'm hoping that no one sent another player a PM with codes without permission from Scoop. And also - I don't intend to imply I understand what the rules really are about this time code part of the game.

And, also - to the team that has every single thing go their way: you're getting a little greedy.

[Lassr]

I find it odd to think that both the Commander and the Wolves targeted the same exact worst target. And for what it's worth, I am of the opinion that Lagom wasn't shot dead on the morning of day 1 SOLEY because the Sniper was already dead, but why (in your reasoning, Lassr) does the specific role of the last cyborg hunter come into play when there is only one left?

It doesn't matter, other than I know you asked the sniper to shoot quickly on day 1 and Issy did not show up until after the vote. You may have thought he was the last Cyborg based on that bit of info. Only reason I brought it up. Of course, I knew the sniper was dead.

My question would be, if you are a Scout bot, you knew the Sniper was dead, and yet you asked for the Sniper to shoot quickly.

[Unagi]

My question would be, if you are a Scout bot, you knew the Sniper was dead, and yet you asked for the Sniper to shoot quickly.

Sigh... I mean - you are kidding - right? I explained that a couple of times now - and only a wolf isn't reading that.

I missed that Scoop had said the 'alignment' of the night kills on Night 0. Here, let me step you through it:

Also - SNIPER should shoot Lagom Lite right now, right????

If LL is telling the truth and Newcastle is Cyborg Commander, then the Sniper is already dead.

I really don't follow that at all. What am I missing?

Punisher answered me:

I really don't follow that at all. What am I missing?

Both kills last night were cyborgs. There are only 3 total cyborgs.

I feel like a bone-head:

Sorry, I totally skipped that paragraph and went to the 'Remaining Characters' list - I didn't realize that the team orientation was revealed on the night kills (that's a big deal too, so yeah- my bad).

Me, in real-time, finding Lagom's declaration fishy:

Lagom, you are saying that two Cyborgs are dead (well, Scoop told us that part) - and that you claim the living Cyborg is Newcastle - and that Newcastle is the Commander Cyborg.
Is that right?

and then finally - here I basically try and tell you all something that I planned to point back to when the game concluded -

I feel like an ass for not reading the top of Scoops first post where he reveals that both night kills were the Cyborg Hunters.
Also - I just want to say (total aside, and this is to Scoop) that it's a little confusing to have the wolves be called "something-bot", but then to also have a Cyborg Hunter named "something-bot".

I had worked out this confusion before day 1 started- but overall since my name was 'Scout-bot' - I kept briefly thinking that the 'Cyborg Hunters' were not my team... what did they call my team again - oh yeah, Cyborg Hunters.

[Holman]

And, also - to the team that has every single thing go their way: you're getting a little greedy.

FWIW, it's nothing personal. But the point is to play to win, right?

It's been a long time since I played in a three-team game. It's bound to be an odd dynamic.