Octopus Overlords

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:01 pm This is what one of those ships looks like. Thats gotta sting.

Littoral combat ships were a boondoggle for the US. No idea how the Russians fared.

Again I bring it back to the point that we're not standing idly by while Russia beats the crap out of Ukraine. We're destroying their economy and making them global pariahs. But that takes time. It's likely not going to stop them from taking Ukraine, but it just may stop them from taking anyone else. You can't run a world conquring army with no money and an angry populace who doesn't want to fight for you.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:59 pm Are you expecting oil companies to sell crude below market prices?

Not without coercion, no. Which was kind of my point.

Lagom Lite wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:57 pm Re: Gas prices. Maybe I'm ignorant, but isn't Russian imports like 2% of your consumption? You have your own drilling, not to mention Saudi imports. If the profit margins of your oil companies remain high, shouldn't you put some of the blame of inflated prices on them?

Yep. Apparently there are 1000's of open leases in the US right now that oil companies just aren't using (but could be). Why not? Everything I've read points to the influential shareholders of those companies tired of over-expansion after so many years, and more interested in bigger dividends. Reign in the sprawl, sit tight, and reap the rewards of high prices and profits.

Obviously the right is blaming Biden for the high prices, but not for the right reason IMO. If he has any blame, it's that he has zero pull with the E&P companies (to get them to drill and produce), partly because he very loudly ran on a platform of increased environmental...consideration. His hands are a bit tied in terms of working with them, or pressuring them, because loosening regulations (that the E&P companies want) would be seen as hypocritical. So the companies aren't playing ball, and they have no incentive to since Biden is not and/or can't offer them anything.

That's the broad take as I understand it from reading a couple of different articles.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:05 pm Again I bring it back to the point that we're not standing idly by while Russia beats the crap out of Ukraine. We're destroying their economy and making them global pariahs. But that takes time. It's likely not going to stop them from taking Ukraine, but it just may stop them from taking anyone else. You can't run a world conquring army with no money and an angry populace who doesn't want to fight for you.

If you are referring to my comment, I meant militarily standing by. Obviously we and the world are doing some unprecedented (!) things to "discourage" Russia, using our +3 Spiked Club of Capitalism.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:07 pm Yep. Apparently there are 100's of open leases in the US right now that oil companies just aren't using (but could be).

There's over 9,000 open leases, at least according to Psaki's press conference on Monday.

Too bad there isn't some alternative to gasoline that, if had been made a priority, would have made this less of an issue.

Want to cripple a nation like Russia that relies on fuel exports? Invest in technologies that make fuel unimportant.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:16 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:07 pm Yep. Apparently there are 100's of open leases in the US right now that oil companies just aren't using (but could be).

There's over 9,000 open leases, at least according to Psaki's press conference on Monday.

Oops, missed a zero! Fixed!

Carpet_pissr wrote:If you are referring to my comment, I meant militarily standing by. Obviously we and the world are doing some unprecedented (!) things to "discourage" Russia, using the Big Stick of Capitalism(TM)!

No, I wasn't pointing anyone out specifically, just going with the general vibe.

Believe me, I'd LOVE to see our pilots over there kicking ass and lighting up convoys. But I don't see a way to get there. So if the military option is not an option, you have to go with the next best thing, which I think we're doing.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:18 pm Too bad there isn't some alternative to gasoline that, if had been made a priority, would have made this less of an issue.

Want to cripple a nation like Russia that relies on fuel exports? Invest in technologies that make fuel unimportant.

SOCIALIST!!! COMMUNIST!!!
I demand to be able to let my F-250 idle with the A/C on for hours at a time if I want to, even when it makes no sense to do so, with absolutely no guilt or repercussions. And do it CHEAPLY dammit. IS THAT SO WRONG?!

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:21 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:18 pm Too bad there isn't some alternative to gasoline that, if had been made a priority, would have made this less of an issue.

Want to cripple a nation like Russia that relies on fuel exports? Invest in technologies that make fuel unimportant.

SOCIALIST!!! COMMUNIST!!!
I demand to be able to let my F-250 idle with the A/C on for hours at a time if I want to, even when it makes no sense to do so, with absolutely no guilt or repercussions. And do it CHEAPLY dammit. IS THAT SO WRONG?!

Just make it an F-150 Lightning and go about yer bizness. Come on, Ford... Make it happen.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:21 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:18 pm Too bad there isn't some alternative to gasoline that, if had been made a priority, would have made this less of an issue.

Want to cripple a nation like Russia that relies on fuel exports? Invest in technologies that make fuel unimportant.

SOCIALIST!!! COMMUNIST!!!
I demand to be able to let my F-250 idle with the A/C on for hours at a time if I want to, even when it makes no sense to do so, with absolutely no guilt or repercussions. And do it CHEAPLY dammit. IS THAT SO WRONG?!

You don't own a Hummer or a Canyonero? FASCIST!

As far as Russian military, What we are seeing from Russia in Ukraine sure seems to be a shitshow. But, I strongly disagree that what we are seeing actually represents the Russian military might. Putin has sent out the C team, the dregs, whatever he scrounged up, without touching any anti-nato forces he has in place. Sure maybe he thought this would be enough to roll up Ukraine, and that was a miscalculation.

But if any neighbors think now is a good time to invade Russian soil due to the poor showing in Ukraine, I believe the invasion force will be quickly crushed by the Russian bear. I don't believe that Putin mobilized Russia military might for this war, I think he sent in the leftovers and the actual military is still exactly where it was before.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:44 pm As far as Russian military, What we are seeing from Russia in Ukraine sure seems to be a shitshow. But, I strongly disagree that what we are seeing actually represents the Russian military might. Putin has sent out the C team, the dregs, whatever he scrounged up, without touching any anti-nato forces he has in place. Sure maybe he thought this would be enough to roll up Ukraine, and that was a miscalculation.

But if any neighbors think now is a good time to invade Russian soil due to the poor showing in Ukraine, I believe the invasion force will be quickly crushed by the Russian bear. I don't believe that Putin mobilized Russia military might for this war, I think he sent in the leftovers and the actual military is still exactly where it was before.

Which neighbors would even think of invading Russia? I actually started to answer "sounds right to me!" but then I thought about it, and no, I can't think of anyone actually doing that, even if he is distracted with Ukraine. Surely he knew that NATO was not likely to even move against him IN Ukraine, much less invade Mother Russia itself? Or are you suggesting anotther player? I mean who would be that crazy, Mongolia?

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:15 am

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:26 am

Daehawk wrote:I wonder why the US doesn't forego the gas tax in situations like this to also help out?

Because that pays for road and bridge maintenance, which we haven't been doing enough of as it is?

And once a tax is suspended, it’s hard to reinstate. And the federal gas tax is only 18.3 cents per gallon anyway, so it would only make a small difference.

A number of years ago someone calculated that the “real” price of a gallon of gas, factoring in the pollution it causes and the military costs of defending supply lines, should be around $8 per gallon. That was before global warming moved to the front burner.

This is easy for me to say because I haven't filled my tank since January, but we are used to paying a heavily subsidized price.

Ultimately not paying for things and making them more accessible than they really are just increases debt and inflation. Neither are good in my eyes. This is the piper we are paying for all of the give aways when things weren't being produced or taxed. We knew it was coming. We didn't know Russia would throw fuel on the fire but that's what we should have prepared for then. It's a bit late now.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:07 pm

Lagom Lite wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:57 pm Re: Gas prices. Maybe I'm ignorant, but isn't Russian imports like 2% of your consumption? You have your own drilling, not to mention Saudi imports. If the profit margins of your oil companies remain high, shouldn't you put some of the blame of inflated prices on them?

Yep. Apparently there are 1000's of open leases in the US right now that oil companies just aren't using (but could be). Why not? Everything I've read points to the influential shareholders of those companies tired of over-expansion after so many years, and more interested in bigger dividends. Reign in the sprawl, sit tight, and reap the rewards of high prices and profits.

It's partly that but also just lots of practical considerations. Many existing production sites aren't fully optimized/built out. It'll often be a better use of a dollar to invest where you can grow with less effort. Especially since many of those 1000s don't have fully surveys and they aren't necessarily economically viable. Even if they are you might have infrastructure and resource needs that aren't met in the area.

Obviously the right is blaming Biden for the high prices, but not for the right reason IMO. If he has any blame, it's that he has zero pull with the E&P companies (to get them to drill and produce), partly because he very loudly ran on a platform of increased environmental...consideration.

His hands are a bit tied in terms of working with them, or pressuring them, because loosening regulations (that the E&P companies want) would be seen as hypocritical. So the companies aren't playing ball, and they have no incentive to since Biden is not and/or can't offer them anything.

I don't think this is true. The oil companies are mostly in the middle of rebranding themselves and rebuilding themselves as diversified energy companies. They will be looking for handouts to build out future energy opportunities such as charging infrastructure. As much as people want to make drilling support a Blue/Red issue - it really isn't. There are degrees but energy policy in the United States has been very accommodative for years across both parties. The oil giants make big donations to institutions and pols of every stripe since they have a fine history of getting excess returns from national governments.

As an aside, some try to point at the delayed/cancelled pipeline projects. They have tangential role in long-term higher costs but honestly they are mostly grift. They involve politicians giving away public land rights and picking energy transportation winners and losers in return for bribes...um I mean PAC donations.

I can't recall, how many pages it was ago, somebody was hypothetically thinking about moving into Russia, based on how weak their military is, based on this poor showing in Ukraine. Ya know, decades of Oligarchs syphoning funds away leading to a poorly maintained and crumbling military might. Wait, was that this thread? Or someplace else? Well anyway, I don't believe it. I have no proof of course, I just don't believe it.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:55 pm I can't recall, how many pages it was ago, somebody was hypothetically thinking about moving into Russia, based on how weak their military is, based on this poor showing in Ukraine. Ya know, decades of Oligarchs syphoning funds away leading to a poorly maintained and crumbling military might. Wait, was that this thread? Or someplace else? Well anyway, I don't believe it. I have no proof of course, I just don't believe it.

I would agree with you on the ill-advised move of attacking into Russia. Not because I believe Putin sent the C team, but because Russian rail logistics within Russia appear to be very very good. It's Russian logistics outside of Russia - or rather logistics far from rail lines, that's the problem.

Some more posturing.

The U.S. military is sending two Patriot missile-defense systems to Poland, amid growing fears that Russia’s war in Ukraine could threatening neighboring countries.

“This defensive deployment is being conducted proactively to counter any potential threat to U.S. and Allied forces and NATO territory,” U.S. European Command said in a statement.

Poland has been critical both to Ukrainians fleeing the country and those defending the nation since Russia invaded 13 days ago. Poland, a NATO and EU member, has over a million refugees from Ukraine and has become a major staging area for arms going into the country.

These will probably be permanent Polish residents, if they don't find their way into Ukraine.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:11 am If you’re interested in helping out Ukrainians in a direct way, consider renting Airbnb’s there. We did it today and the message we got back was heart warming.

Something similar is happening on Etsy. A friend bought a baptism gown last year from a seamstress in Kyiv and sent them them a donation this week by ordering something and including a note that it was a donation and not to ship the product.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:44 pm As far as Russian military, What we are seeing from Russia in Ukraine sure seems to be a shitshow. But, I strongly disagree that what we are seeing actually represents the Russian military might. Putin has sent out the C team, the dregs, whatever he scrounged up, without touching any anti-nato forces he has in place. Sure maybe he thought this would be enough to roll up Ukraine, and that was a miscalculation.

But if any neighbors think now is a good time to invade Russian soil due to the poor showing in Ukraine, I believe the invasion force will be quickly crushed by the Russian bear. I don't believe that Putin mobilized Russia military might for this war, I think he sent in the leftovers and the actual military is still exactly where it was before.

Why do you think that, and if true, what do you think he is waiting for now?

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:21 pm Some more posturing.

The U.S. military is sending two Patriot missile-defense systems to Poland, amid growing fears that Russia’s war in Ukraine could threatening neighboring countries.

“This defensive deployment is being conducted proactively to counter any potential threat to U.S. and Allied forces and NATO territory,” U.S. European Command said in a statement.

Poland has been critical both to Ukrainians fleeing the country and those defending the nation since Russia invaded 13 days ago. Poland, a NATO and EU member, has over a million refugees from Ukraine and has become a major staging area for arms going into the country.

These will probably be permanent Polish residents, if they don't find their way into Ukraine.

Poland is already a major staging point for distributing lethal aid but I wonder if the Poles decided to "surplus" some MiGs and were convinced to distribute them themselves (instead of dumping them at Ramstein AFB) and this was part of the inducement.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:44 pm As far as Russian military, What we are seeing from Russia in Ukraine sure seems to be a shitshow. But, I strongly disagree that what we are seeing actually represents the Russian military might. Putin has sent out the C team, the dregs, whatever he scrounged up, without touching any anti-nato forces he has in place. Sure maybe he thought this would be enough to roll up Ukraine, and that was a miscalculation.

But if any neighbors think now is a good time to invade Russian soil due to the poor showing in Ukraine, I believe the invasion force will be quickly crushed by the Russian bear. I don't believe that Putin mobilized Russia military might for this war, I think he sent in the leftovers and the actual military is still exactly where it was before.

At least Russia was kind enough to give all those tanks and vehicles to Ukraine.

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:55 pm

I had already forgotten that Etsy "donations" had been brought up as a hypothetical example. At any rate, it's no longer hypothetical.

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:29 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:19 am Yes, it's a rather ingenious and effective way of getting money directly in the hands of residents. As has been said, it has absolutely nothing to do with housing refugees. In fact, the underlying property can be destroyed and it still works as intended.

this thread does move fast, doesn't it

Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:22 pm If Olga is a resident of Ukraine, you have just helped a Ukrainian. The hope is that Olga is a legit target of our sympathy. Beyond that, there is no expectation that Olga even still has a bed to rent.

Now we just need Holman to let us know he gets it.

I fully understand how it works. I just don't think it's nearly as effective as other readily available means.

Just tossing money at a Ukrainian with an AirBnB does indeed "help a Ukrainian," but does it help those most in need of help in a way they need most? And wouldn't you want to do that instead?

I'm willing to let this go, though.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:28 pm

Gas is a necessity for alot of people.
Healthcare should be, but sadly isnt.

Some family member busted their leg in Germany and I think the total for them was $50

stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:35 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:28 pm

Gas is a necessity for alot of people.
Healthcare should be, but sadly isnt.

You mean "a priority." And the reason it's not a priority is that it's prohibitively expensive.

Healthcare is necessity for everyone, and the tens of thousands of dollars by which Americans overpay for it compared to the rest of the developed world make gas prices look like nothing.

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:48 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:35 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:28 pm

Gas is a necessity for alot of people.
Healthcare should be, but sadly isnt.

You mean "a priority." And the reason it's not a priority is that it's prohibitively expensive.

Healthcare is necessity for everyone, and the tens of thousands of dollars by which Americans overpay for it compared to the rest of the developed world make gas prices look like nothing.

And the dude is blatantly wrong by saying Americans "gladly" pay thousands more than European countries.
I dont know 1 single person who isnt appalled by the price of heathcare in this country.

stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:56 pm I dont know 1 single person who isnt appalled by the price of heathcare in this country.

Yeah, should say, "glad to pay outrageous healthcare costs if it means stiggen it to the socialist libtards."

stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:56 pm And the dude is blatantly wrong by saying Americans "gladly" pay thousands more than European countries.
I dont know 1 single person who isnt appalled by the price of heathcare in this country.

Appalled sure, but any effort to do anything about it is labeled as socialism or anti-capitalist and we continue to let the market crush us because it makes the rich richer and they have good PR.

And lawyers.

Pretty sure we also aren't paying 50 cents more than Europeans for gas.

Is there any redline Putin and Russia could cross that would prevail over the "but he has NUKES" argument against direct military intervention in Ukraine?

Anything?

Because from what I'm reading, things are going from bad to worse. The Ukranians are not backing down, and the Russians are doing what the Russians do (e.g., Chechnya, Syria, Georgia, etc.).

Kurth wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:29 pm Is there any redline Putin and Russia could cross that would prevail over the "but he has NUKES" argument against direct military intervention in Ukraine?

Anything?

Because from what I'm reading, things are going from bad to worse. The Ukranians are not backing down, and the Russians are doing what the Russians do (e.g., Chechnya, Syria, Georgia, etc.).

See upthread discussion about this.

Kurth wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:29 pm Is there any redline Putin and Russia could cross that would prevail over the "but he has NUKES" argument against direct military intervention in Ukraine?

Anything?

Because from what I'm reading, things are going from bad to worse. The Ukranians are not backing down, and the Russians are doing what the Russians do (e.g., Chechnya, Syria, Georgia, etc.).

Short of using battlefield nukes, biological weapons, or striking NATO territory? Probably not.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:40 pm

Kurth wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:29 pm Is there any redline Putin and Russia could cross that would prevail over the "but he has NUKES" argument against direct military intervention in Ukraine?

Anything?

Because from what I'm reading, things are going from bad to worse. The Ukranians are not backing down, and the Russians are doing what the Russians do (e.g., Chechnya, Syria, Georgia, etc.).

Short of using battlefield nukes, biological weapons, or striking NATO territory? Probably not.

How about chemical weapons? Does that count?

Oil prices plunge as UAE supports supply boost

Told ya the deplorables would regret those gas pump stickers.

Oil prices have plunged after the United Arab Emirates said it supported increasing production.

Brent crude, an international benchmark, fell more than 17% at one point after the statement by the UAE, a member of the powerful oil cartel Opec.

The fall follows weeks of skyrocketing oil prices due to supply disruptions sparked by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.