Octopus Overlords

I'm just finishing up Don't Look Up, and I don't get the dislike for it. It's a fun dark comedy with some sharp scenes and few duds. I get the complaint that it was a bit too long, but that didn't bother me because I watched it in several sessions.

If they wanted to be for climate change what Dr. Strangelove was for the nuclear arms race, they didn't hit that mark, but then it's hard to be Stanley Kubrick. The cast was pretty darn great. (Where else are you going to see Meryl Streep as Donald Trump?) Both Leo DiCaprio and Jennifer Lawrence did great jobs as "regular folks" rather than movie stars.

Yeah, it wasn't bad. Needed to have about 45 minutes trimmed, but I enjoyed it.

For me, as soon as I got through the (first?) Streep scene I turned it off. Just don't feel like watching the same bit for 90 more minutes, after essentially living through it for years.

Yeah, I’ll pass. I’m still too shellshocked at losing our country to MAGAnation to laugh about its implications. Give me a year or three.

That's interesting. While watching Streep I never once flashed on Florida Man. To me she was her own brand of self centered egomaniac. In retrospect I can see it though.

I finally watched Don't Look Up last night, and generally liked it, though I agree it runs a little too long.
Today, I keep seeing reviewers compare it to Dr. Strangelove (which is one of my top 5 all time movies), but I think that's the wrong comparison.

I think the correct comparison is Starship Troopers.

The comparison to Stragelove is valid. It's just not nearly as good.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:46 am Tore through "I Think You Should Leave with Tim Robertson" today and glad I did. It's sketch comedy and pretty damn funny. Tim excels at mining comedy out of awkward and steadily escalating situations, which is right up my alley. Another bonus is the absolutely brilliant performances by a ton of comedians including several SNL alums. Highly recommended.

How did I miss this? This is some of the best sketch comedy I’ve seen in years. I started watching it this weekend after reading an article about how much other comedians love it, and I’m hooked.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:40 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:46 am Tore through "I Think You Should Leave with Tim Robertson" today and glad I did. It's sketch comedy and pretty damn funny. Tim excels at mining comedy out of awkward and steadily escalating situations, which is right up my alley. Another bonus is the absolutely brilliant performances by a ton of comedians including several SNL alums. Highly recommended.

How did I miss this? This is some of the best sketch comedy I’ve seen in years. I started watching it this weekend after reading an article about how much other comedians love it, and I’m hooked.

I've been looking for a short comedy. This will scratch that itch. Haven't watched it yet but surely will.

Trailer for “Raising Dion” season 2 (note - my brother works on this series as the location manager):

Jaymann wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:56 am That's interesting. While watching Streep I never once flashed on Florida Man. To me she was her own brand of self centered egomaniac. In retrospect I can see it though.

I thought more of a trumpified Sarah Palin myself.

I thought “Don’t Look Up” was brilliant satire. It critiqued most heavily our political culture, but it also took shots at the news media, social media, entertainment media, “alternative facts”capitalism, our faith in technology, among others. What’s interesting is that of all our systems, only religion came out looking ok - that last prayer at the “Last Supper” was very moving and poignant - as was that entire scene. It also has another surprising message beyond the cynicism - it points out what is really important - caring about and being with the people we love.

Ozark is back for the first half of its final season. So far I’m enjoying it. Although its depiction of drug cartels is pretty much straight from Breaking Bad,..without anyone as genius as Gus Fring.

Saw Red Notice this weekend. Enjoyed it although thought it could have been better.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:49 pm Ozark is back for the first half of its final season. So far I’m enjoying it. Although its depiction of drug cartels is pretty much straight from Breaking Bad,..without anyone as genius as Gus Fring.

Absolutely love this series and so glad it's back. I think the wife and I have watched the first three episodes of this season. Solid all around, if some of the characters are a bit all over the place. Several of them swing pretty wildly from Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil and back again, and it's enough to where I am noticing and almost eye rolling, but not at that level yet. That;s a SMALL nit though, and that's really my only criticism in an otherwise bang up show. I guess you could argue that part of the premise is showing how the daily stress and required intensity of what they now DO, does to a "normal" family, and the answer might be: makes 'em a bit wild and crazy, and all over the place.

Marty is Walter
Wendy is Gus

hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:49 pm Ozark is back for the first half of its final season. So far I’m enjoying it. Although its depiction of drug cartels is pretty much straight from Breaking Bad,..without anyone as genius as Gus Fring.

That's my main issue with it. Everyone keeps making stupid decisions. As a result, I feel I can't sympathize with any of them.

You've mentioned numerous times in the past that you don't like it when people make dumb mistakes on shows. I have a feeling you're not entirely sure how reality works.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:15 pm
Marty is Walter
Wendy is Gus

Okay, I can get behind that. Especially 3 episodes in.

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:23 pm You've mentioned numerous times in the past that you don't like it when people make dumb mistakes on shows. I have a feeling you're not entirely sure how reality works.

Nah, I'm sure I know how reality works. It's just when a show revolves around people making decisions they could easily avoid getting themselves in, it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief. It may do similar things as Breaking Bad, but it doesn't have the charm.

If everyone in fiction did everything right all the time, we’d have 5 minute tv shows, 15 minute movies, and 12 page novels.

If everyone in reality did everything right all the time, we wouldn’t have prisons, rehab centers or miniature golf (just let me have that last one and don’t question me on it).

I guess I can’t understand hating this show for what you consider dumb decisions, when they are literally the same decisions made on Breaking Bad and countless other shows (not to mention in reality) in which people dig themselves into a hole in similar situations.

I don't know about that. You can get a lot of conflict and drama out of conflicting ideas or goals, rational decisions made on poor or incorrect information, and some believable emotional decision making. But I'm with Rumpy in that I can rarely get into shows where I am asked to sympathize with main characters who repeatedly make bad (illogical, self destructive, or arbitrary) choices.

I know that real people do repeatedly make illogical, self destructive and arbitrary bad choices. I simply don't want to spend my time cringing over it in fiction.

If the problem is that you’re uncomfortable with/don’t like shows with people making bad choices, that’s fine. Then you should both probably avoid any show featuring a story that is based almost solely on characters making bad choices that lead to their downfall. Something that Ozark, Breaking Bad, and any number of shows, books, movies and plays with similar conceits normally makes clear in trailers, reviews and jacket covers.

I like the well written ones. Like Ozark and Breaking Bad. A well written story is a well written story.

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:57 pm If everyone in fiction did everything right all the time, we’d have 5 minute tv shows, 15 minute movies, and 12 page novels.

If everyone in reality did everything right all the time, we wouldn’t have prisons, rehab centers or miniature golf (just let me have that last one and don’t question me on it).

I guess I can’t understand hating this show for what you consider dumb decisions, when they are literally the same decisions made on Breaking Bad and countless other shows (not to mention in reality) in which people dig themselves into a hole in similar situations.

Well sure, there's a time and place for everything and we can't expect our characters to be perfect, and in fact it's often the flaws that make them more interesting.

Ok, maybe 'stupid' is a bit harsh, maybe improbable is a better choice of word. I apologize as it's been over a year since I've seen season 3, so I can't actually name specifics, but there are many of them in the first 3 seasons alone. One or two times, I'd give them a pass for whinging it as they go, but when it keeps happening, you kind of wonder where their heads are at. That said, I still like watching it. It's like watching a train-wreck happening and not being able to look away, if that makes any sense? Maybe it's their self-destructive choices that make it entertaining and waiting to see how long it takes for it to catch up with them, in other words?

FYI, I loved Breaking Bad. I still like Ozark. But they're ultimately two very different shows with differences in decision making. In Breaking Bad, it's easier to root for Walter due to his diagnosis and you tend you really feel for his despair, even as he falls in deep. The difference with the Ozark is that you have none of the compelling characters. You just have annoying characters who dig themselves deeper and deeper when they had a choice to begin with. They get deeper and deeper, yet part of me wonders how they even manage to with some of the decisions they've made. Like the whole boat storyline from last season making them a very visible target.

I just want to reiterate that Breaking Bad had just as many, if not more, poor decisions by its main character. The whole point of this type of story is that they’re almost continually forced to make decisions in a crisis.

I agree that he's made some terrible decisions himself, but he did it with charm in spades. Bryan Cranston sells it. He's a really great character actor. I'm sorry, but Jason Bateman isn't nearly charismatic to help sell his.

I disagree. I think Bateman is fantastic. As are most of the cast. The only one I struggle with is Darlene, but only because the actress playing her is absolutely great at making me hate her. She does a lot of things to sabotage herself, but they’re all rooted in her low self esteem. She hates to be made the fool….and in her mind, everyone does it. So she lashes out at everyone at some point.

I will say they introduced a character in this new season I’m not taking a shine to. He’s too stereotyped, in my opinion. And after the character Ben Davis and the great performance by Tom Pelphrey in that role last season, it’s a bit of a let down.

Well, make no mistake, I do think he's a great actor. I just find him to be a bit of a one-note in this series. I just don't find him to be all that interesting in this.

I'll say this, I think my favourite character is Ruth. She's such an oddball, but she's an interesting character made more interesting by being dragged into it.

Bateman’s performance is understated and nuanced, in my opinion.. and others. I especially like his ability to manipulate others in his quiet yet desperate manner.

As for Ruth, that actress deserves all the rave reviews she’s earned. She’s clearly the break out star of the show. Although this latest season is letting Laura Linney run with the ball more.

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:57 pm If everyone in fiction did everything right all the time, we’d have 5 minute tv shows, 15 minute movies, and 12 page novels.

If everyone in reality did everything right all the time, we wouldn’t have prisons, rehab centers or miniature golf (just let me have that last one and don’t question me on it).

No owls, no creeks, and certainly no happenings at bridges.

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:09 pm As for Ruth, that actress deserves all the rave reviews she’s earned. She’s clearly the break out star of the show. Although this latest season is letting Laura Linney run with the ball more.

That we can agree on. I even like her southern accent. My first reaction to her was being repulsed by her, but then she becomes an unwilling accomplice and she's been one interesting watch for sure.

As for Jason Bateman, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I find him far from nuanced in this, to the point of feeling like he's often trying too hard to justify his actions. And again, it goes back to the decisions they've been making. At best he's good at showing they're up the creek without a paddle, which has happened umpteenth times.

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:27 pm I just want to reiterate that Breaking Bad had just as many, if not more, poor decisions by its main character. The whole point of this type of story is that they’re almost continually forced to make decisions in a crisis.

I bounced off of Breaking Bad also due to this. Pretty much unless the poor decisions are played for comedy I find this sort of spiraling of poor decisions in crisis mode to be more frustrating and cringeworthy than interesting, sympathetic, or dramatic.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:13 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:57 pm If everyone in fiction did everything right all the time, we’d have 5 minute tv shows, 15 minute movies, and 12 page novels.

If everyone in reality did everything right all the time, we wouldn’t have prisons, rehab centers or miniature golf (just let me have that last one and don’t question me on it).

No owls, no creeks, and certainly no happenings at bridges.

Oh, you mean “psychological thrillers”?

Madmarcus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:28 am I find this sort of spiraling of poor decisions in crisis mode to be more frustrating and cringeworthy than interesting, sympathetic, or dramatic.

I’m the same way with shows featuring talking babies.

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:27 pm I just want to reiterate that Breaking Bad had just as many, if not more, poor decisions by its main character. The whole point of this type of story is that they’re almost continually forced to make decisions in a crisis.

I agree that people make poor decisions all the time. Lord help me, it feels like they (we?) make them all the time. In fiction, for it to be compelling to me, I need for those decisions to make sense given the internal logic of the character. We, as the viewer/reader, oftentimes know from a larger perspective that these decisions are stupid because we have information they don't have or haven't been presented with their thought processes. In order for me to be able to empathize, I have to truly understand what they were thinking and why it made sense to them. If I don't, then it triggers my sense of disbelief.

Written fiction has the advantage over television, I think in that the writer can more easily display these internal thoughts. Stephen King's greatest strength as a writer (IMO) is that he is masterful at writing internal dialogue and making it very clear why some smart people make very stupid decisions based on emotions and fears. Television can do it but it has to work a lot harder at it and do some techniques that aren't standard.

Of course, everyone's sense of disbelief will trigger differently. I love Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul because I believe that their decisions made sense to them. But there have definitely been shows where it feels like the writers aren't interested in displaying why the character got themselves into a tragic position. Instead, they're just interested in putting the character in more of them or raising the stakes without justification. Those usually get abandoned quickly.

Yeah, badly written characters are awful because of the bad writing. Not because they simply made a bad choice. But I can't think of any choices in Breaking Bad or Ozark that aren't in line with the characters and their shared experiences. Unlike Walking Dead where people are doing things like trying to figure out how to bring back commercial sky writing when what they need is food.

There is also the lack of joy or adventure that can wear a viewer down. Ozark is a constant assault of dread that isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. It's not just that they are making bad decisions, it's that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Even if they somehow do make it out of this, they are awful people that the viewer will find it hard to like.

So it's not that people need happy shows with all smiles. But when it's completely devoid of that it can be a bit much. I like it, but I certainly have to take breaks from that kind of mood.

That's why I did not really care for Black Mass even though I loved Goodfellas. One had some fun. One did not.

McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:16 pm Even if they somehow do make it out of this, they are awful people that the viewer will find it hard to like.

This. I quit Ozark just before finishing the first season. It's not that I didn't enjoy it - it was excellent. But I just didn't like any of the characters. I found the show too stressful to watch when I couldn't really root for anyone in it. But I totally think in this case that's a "me" problem with the show.

That and it didn't have even one Groundhog's Day episode.

I really enjoy Ozark but I'm also ready to see the Bryde's come to a bad end if that's what's in store for them. It's not like they were forced to launder money for the Cartel. Their cushy life in Chicago was built on Cartel money. And their delusions of getting out from the Cartel or Wendy "Mrs. Macbeth" talking about becoming the most powerful political family in Missouri got a big laugh out of me and definitely sets them up for a nasty reality check which I will enjoy watching

Ruth better come out of it okay though.

$iljanus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:40 pm I really enjoy Ozark but I'm also ready to see the Bryde's come to a bad end if that's what's in store for them. It's not like they were forced to launder money for the Cartel.

They weren't? I thought it was pretty clear in season 1 that if they didn't, very bad things were going to happen to them.

But I also want to see Lady MacBeth get her comeuppance. And I want to see Darlene put into an Agony Booth set to 11.

Ruth I would love to see come out of this alive as she is one of the rare sympathetic characters in the show. As is Marty to some extent (his shock at his wife's increasing need for power is a highlight of this latest season).

Charlotte has become Chuck Cunningham from Happy Days lately. Jonah has taken her spot as the main kid.

They were laundering money when the show started. Del didn't introduce himself and say "you strangers are going to start laundering money." They were already doing it. Marty just didn't know his partner was skimming off the top.

McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:45 pm They were laundering money when the show started. Del didn't introduce himself and say "you strangers are going to start laundering money." They were already doing it. Marty just didn't know his partner was skimming off the top.

Right, but when the partner was killed, it was made very clear that Marty had to make good on his debt and continue laundering for the cartel or be killed themselves.

Unless you both are just referring to how Marty first got involved in laundering money, which was unwittingly? But after he found out his partner had been doing so, it was made very clear he was being forced to continue laundering and had no choice in the matter.