YellowKing wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:25 am I'd think in an intelligence position where being unbiased is part of the job, you'd be even more sensitive to it.
I can't count how many times I have heard an FBI or CIA employee, whether high, mid level, or low, stating this again and again (and believably, sincerely I think). That yes, of course we all hold political views, but we hold the professionalism of our work and our loyalty to country AND office of the president above those personal views. We do the job as asked, and the best we know how, no matter who is at the top of the chain.
Right, this applies to all federal employees, not just those that can actually impact high level politics. It's like they're suggesting that the millions of federal employees need to be republican during a republican presidency, and then they are all fired and millions of democrats are hired to replace them when the presidency is held by a democrat.
Ludicrous.
That's kind of how it used to be - federal jobs were kind of a patronage to be awarded to your supporters after winning an election. Obviously that had less than salutary effects on the quality of the federal workforce, which is a big part of the reason that early 20th century reforms moved it to more of a civil service model.
And this is even worse when you're talking about the security and law enforcement services.
We've achieved a democracy that does *not* require party/leader loyalty in its police. Think of how rare that is, then ask what it means that Trump is willing to throw it away.
Holman wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:18 pmWe've achieved a democracy that does *not* require party/leader loyalty in its police. Think of how rare that is, then ask what it means that Trump is willing to throw it away.
It's less that he's willing to throw it away as much as it really doesn't give him the ego boost and security-blanket feeling he needs from it. It's useless to him and his way of thinking. He's a Ferengi, not a Romulan.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2025-01-20: The nightmares continue.
Hmm, three Rick Gates’ attorneys — Shanlon Wu, Walter Mack & Annemarie McAvoy — all have withdrawn from the case, the court announces
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) February 1, 2018
MORE: The filing was signed by three of the attorneys representing Gates. Tom Green, a lawyer known for negotiating federal plea deals who was recently brought on by Gates, remains.
— ABC News (@ABC) February 1, 2018
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
All should appreciate the FBI speaking up. I wish more of our leaders would. But take heart: American history shows that, in the long run, weasels and liars never hold the field, so long as good people stand up. Not a lot of schools or streets named for Joe McCarthy.
2:51 PM · Feb 1, 2018
*That’s a tweet from James Comey, if that wasn’t obvious. I suck at embedding tweets.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
All should appreciate the FBI speaking up. I wish more of our leaders would. But take heart: American history shows that, in the long run, weasels and liars never hold the field, so long as good people stand up. Not a lot of schools or streets named for Joe McCarthy.
2:51 PM · Feb 1, 2018
*That’s a tweet from James Comey, if that wasn’t obvious. I suck at embedding tweets.
ftfy. Just drop the URL tags. The board will recognize a twitter url and do the right thing. No special actions required.
Hmm, three Rick Gates’ attorneys — Shanlon Wu, Walter Mack & Annemarie McAvoy — all have withdrawn from the case, the court announces
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) February 1, 2018
MORE: The filing was signed by three of the attorneys representing Gates. Tom Green, a lawyer known for negotiating federal plea deals who was recently brought on by Gates, remains.
— ABC News (@ABC) February 1, 2018
Price just got higher too, though. Gates probably has a lot of the same information that Manafort has, and if Mueller has the information he needs from Gates already, his interest in a plea deal with Manafort may go down.
Donald Trump's collusion wrote:The top Leadership and Investigators of the FBI and the Justice Department have politicized the sacred investigative process in favor of Democrats and against Republicans - something which would have been unthinkable just a short time ago. Rank & File are great people!
Friday Night Massacre coming after the Nunes memo?
Vorret wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:49 am
What happens then ?
A good chunk of the US population won't care or they'll think it's the right move.
Then we get to see the timeline play out where Nixon didn't resign and was elected for a third term. I just don't want to deal with Adrian killing millions of people to bring us back together.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2025-01-20: The nightmares continue.
So he's accusing the people he appointed of having liberal bias against him? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
Vorret wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:49 am
What happens then ?
A good chunk of the US population won't care or they'll think it's the right move.
With that last Tweet I'm at the point of wondering; Is there a breaking point? What does it mean if we hit it? Are we all full of sound and fury
signifying nothing. It's totally weird to know you are the side of wrong and doing nothing about it because you have to work and make a living and yet all this knowledge does is make me uncomfortable while I hope things work themselves out. And my best answer is to go ostrich. As long as I hide my head in the sand (and stay away from Internet and news and such), at least I feel better.
Chaz wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:04 am
So he's accusing the people he appointed of having liberal bias against him? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
He's accusing the guy he fired, who helped him win the election by publishing information about his rival while not publishing information about him and the guy who was put in place to replace the guy he fired. The replacement was put in place by a guy put in place by guy put in place by PoTUS and they guy PoTUS put in place had to recuse himself because he lied to the senate about the very thing PoTUS is being investigated for.
Now if my understanding is correct, Trump needs to use his powers to fire PoTUS for having a liberal bias for Democrats against Republicans.
What is disastrous piece of shit, managing to do what no one else has ever been able to do in my lifetime, kill my respect for the office, irrespective of the office holder.
The word that seems to be going around is that the memo isn't even very convincing of anything, not even counting the fact it's riddled with inaccuracies and intentional omissions. It also supposedly doubles down on trying to say the investigation is tainted because it started with the Steele dossier, which we now know is not true, as well as not taking into account that we now know that large chunks of the dossier line up with what we know from other sources. Very little in it has been proven wrong, just not verified yet, despite what Drumpf and Republicans keep telling themselves.
We're basically about to see the right wing media myths about the dossier and the investigation run into reality, and it's hard to tell where that will take us. I suspect there might be a momentary splash as the memo releases, but as news organizations tear into it and the actual contents sink in it will be another nothing burger like Nunes last unmasking "scandal". The worry is that Drumpf will act on it immediately before the lack of any real evidence becomes clear to most people.
Vorret wrote:What happens then ?
A good chunk of the US population won't care or they'll think it's the right move.
I'm looking at it from the optics standpoint.
If Wray resigns, Trump will be frothing at the mouth to claim it was because he knew he was in trouble, and had no choice. He'll use Wray's resignation to "prove" that the memo was correct.
If Wray stands his ground, and Trump is forced to fire him or someone else, it plays into the long pattern of obstruction.
There is always going to be some portion of the country that thinks Trump can do no wrong, and there's nothing we can do to change that. But certainly not giving Trump any ammunition to persuade those on the fence is the best of the two options.
YellowKing wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:42 am
There is always going to be some portion of the country that thinks Trump can do no wrong, and there's nothing we can do to change that. But certainly not giving Trump any ammunition to persuade those on the fence is the best of the two options.
What do you do when it appears that this portion has a majority share of Congress and seem to be desperate to retain power.
Vorret wrote:What happens then ?
A good chunk of the US population won't care or they'll think it's the right move.
I'm looking at it from the optics standpoint.
If Wray resigns, Trump will be frothing at the mouth to claim it was because he knew he was in trouble, and had no choice. He'll use Wray's resignation to "prove" that the memo was correct.
If Wray stands his ground, and Trump is forced to fire him or someone else, it plays into the long pattern of obstruction.
There is always going to be some portion of the country that thinks Trump can do no wrong, and there's nothing we can do to change that. But certainly not giving Trump any ammunition to persuade those on the fence is the best of the two options.
No I know, but , what if congress elections are tampered with and republican are even stronger than before, someone figures it out but it's too late now, oh well, maybe people will change in 2020 but it might get tampered with again, and again.
What if it's only the beginning? Where and when does it stop ? Who stops it if almost half the population is fine with it as long as it's not the other side doing it ?
Maybe I'm overthinking things but there's blatant problems and half the country is just "lol liberal tears". It's honestly frightening from an outside perspective.
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
Vorret wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:49 am
What happens then ?
A good chunk of the US population won't care or they'll think it's the right move.
Then we get to see the timeline play out where Nixon didn't resign and was elected for a third term. I just don't want to deal with Adrian killing millions of people to bring us back together.
Holman wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:59 pm
Various news outlets are now reporting that the WH has cleared the memo and sent it back to Nunes' committee for release.
And apparently Nunes has released "exclusive first excerpts" to Fox News and no one else.
Am I missing something obvious? I read the entire document, and for the life of me, I can't see anything there that is in any way surprising, compromising, or, frankly, not already widely known.
Last edited by Formix on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm seeing a lot of "that's it?" reactions so far. I suppose with the caveat that my Twitter follows are generally not the most pro-Trump people, but still. Fox News is going to do their thing, of course, so we'll see how this plays out. There were also some reports that White House aides worried the memo might be a "dud", and this would help explain why.
Somewhat ironically, that Nunez's attack memo is built around FISA surveillance of Carter Page actually makes me feel *better* about our surveillance infrastructure. I guess I tend to assume that this stuff is routinely abused. So if the best that Nunez could come up with for surveillance abuse allegations here is the surveillance of Carter Page - for whom there is a *ton* of publicly-known reasons to be suspicious of and surveil - then that kind of suggests that the process may not be as abused as I thought. Like, if you can't surveil Carter Page, there's really no reason to have surveillance powers at all.
Would be somewhat amusing if the memo refocuses public attention on how incredibly suspicious Carter Page's activities have been.
Formix wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:36 pm
Am I missing something obvious? I red the entire document, and for the life of me, I can't see anything there that is in any way surprising, compromising, or, frankly, widely known.
Having finally read it - I agree. The important thing is the context. They are linking the Page FISA renewal to the Steele dossier. As we are supposed to forget that Page was under investigation for years. That is why they are spinning a story about an out of control and biased FBI. It is obvious propaganda. Whatever actions they take next will be under this 'cloud' that they cooked up.
Sepiche wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:39 am
The word that seems to be going around is that the memo isn't even very convincing of anything, not even counting the fact it's riddled with inaccuracies and intentional omissions.
It really feels like this memo was literally written to fuel #Pizzagate like activity. Prominently they talk about the Steele dossier, Peter Strok, etc. It sounded like the actions Strok took after seeing the Papadopoulos reports were...rationale. That they tied Papadopoulos to Carter Page is some weird conspiracy? Allow me to assume that probably had something to do with their work in the Trump campaign. To the #Pizzagate set this is clearly the framework of a grand coup. For Pete's sake.
