Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:33 pm
The best thing he could do for the country is to make the Republican party split. So I totally think they should make a patriot party.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://garbi.online/forum/
I will say that I think the best case scenario for the next couple decades is some type of third-party "Patriot / Trump Party" gains steam. This costs the Republicans a number of elections. More importantly, it creates a broad constituency for (small d) democratic reforms, where Republicans are willing to make a deal and look at stuff like ranked choice voting because the Patriot Party is causing them to lose a lot of elections, and Democrats are willing to make a deal because they're still disadvantaged by a lot of structural elements in our political system (including gerrymandering and voter suppression).Paingod wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:32 pmI've been saying for a while that we really need a three-party system. My vision was for the Left and Right to be joined by a Center. I never considered the implications of fracturing the Right and handing control of everything to Democrats. I suppose the GOP earned this, though. The culmination of 30 years of careful manipulation and planning ends with someone dropping a bowling ball through their glass house.
The downside is that we see the extremism of the "MAGA Party" get amped up 10x to appeal to their moronic horde, and they start gaining even greater representation in Red strongholds. Because let's face it, there are lots of places in this country where there is no way a Democrat is going to win, even if the conservative vote is split.El Guapo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:41 pmI will say that I think the best case scenario for the next couple decades is some type of third-party "Patriot / Trump Party" gains steam. This costs the Republicans a number of elections. More importantly, it creates a broad constituency for (small d) democratic reforms, where Republicans are willing to make a deal and look at stuff like ranked choice voting because the Patriot Party is causing them to lose a lot of elections, and Democrats are willing to make a deal because they're still disadvantaged by a lot of structural elements in our political system (including gerrymandering and voter suppression).Paingod wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:32 pmI've been saying for a while that we really need a three-party system. My vision was for the Left and Right to be joined by a Center. I never considered the implications of fracturing the Right and handing control of everything to Democrats. I suppose the GOP earned this, though. The culmination of 30 years of careful manipulation and planning ends with someone dropping a bowling ball through their glass house.
I'm sure it's not going to play out anywhere like that, but a guy can dream.
Or the Patriot Party can gain power.El Guapo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:41 pmI will say that I think the best case scenario for the next couple decades is some type of third-party "Patriot / Trump Party" gains steam. This costs the Republicans a number of elections. More importantly, it creates a broad constituency for (small d) democratic reforms, where Republicans are willing to make a deal and look at stuff like ranked choice voting because the Patriot Party is causing them to lose a lot of elections, and Democrats are willing to make a deal because they're still disadvantaged by a lot of structural elements in our political system (including gerrymandering and voter suppression).Paingod wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:32 pmI've been saying for a while that we really need a three-party system. My vision was for the Left and Right to be joined by a Center. I never considered the implications of fracturing the Right and handing control of everything to Democrats. I suppose the GOP earned this, though. The culmination of 30 years of careful manipulation and planning ends with someone dropping a bowling ball through their glass house.
I'm sure it's not going to play out anywhere like that, but a guy can dream.
ehhh. If the Patriot Party got to the point where it's getting ~ 15% of the vote in red areas (I expect that it'll never get off the ground, but assuming for the moment) then Democrats will start winning in a lot of red areas. E.g., Biden got 37.5% of the vote in Tennessee, 37.7% in Utah, 43% in Alaska, 45% in Iowa, 43% in South Carolina, etc. To say nothing of NC, FL, etc. which were narrow Trump wins in 2020.Skinypupy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:34 pmThe downside is that we see the extremism of the "MAGA Party" get amped up 10x to appeal to their moronic horde, and they start gaining even greater representation in Red strongholds. Because let's face it, there are lots of places in this country where there is no way a Democrat is going to win, even if the conservative vote is split.El Guapo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:41 pmI will say that I think the best case scenario for the next couple decades is some type of third-party "Patriot / Trump Party" gains steam. This costs the Republicans a number of elections. More importantly, it creates a broad constituency for (small d) democratic reforms, where Republicans are willing to make a deal and look at stuff like ranked choice voting because the Patriot Party is causing them to lose a lot of elections, and Democrats are willing to make a deal because they're still disadvantaged by a lot of structural elements in our political system (including gerrymandering and voter suppression).Paingod wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:32 pmI've been saying for a while that we really need a three-party system. My vision was for the Left and Right to be joined by a Center. I never considered the implications of fracturing the Right and handing control of everything to Democrats. I suppose the GOP earned this, though. The culmination of 30 years of careful manipulation and planning ends with someone dropping a bowling ball through their glass house.
I'm sure it's not going to play out anywhere like that, but a guy can dream.
If the Patriot Party winds up displacing the current GOP, then either "soft" Republicans have gone over to the Democratic Party (making a majority harder for the PP) or the PP is competing for "soft" Republicans and winds up essentially becoming the current GOP with a different name.LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:41 pmOr the Patriot Party can gain power.El Guapo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:41 pmI will say that I think the best case scenario for the next couple decades is some type of third-party "Patriot / Trump Party" gains steam. This costs the Republicans a number of elections. More importantly, it creates a broad constituency for (small d) democratic reforms, where Republicans are willing to make a deal and look at stuff like ranked choice voting because the Patriot Party is causing them to lose a lot of elections, and Democrats are willing to make a deal because they're still disadvantaged by a lot of structural elements in our political system (including gerrymandering and voter suppression).Paingod wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:32 pmI've been saying for a while that we really need a three-party system. My vision was for the Left and Right to be joined by a Center. I never considered the implications of fracturing the Right and handing control of everything to Democrats. I suppose the GOP earned this, though. The culmination of 30 years of careful manipulation and planning ends with someone dropping a bowling ball through their glass house.
I'm sure it's not going to play out anywhere like that, but a guy can dream.
LordMortis wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:34 pm Patriot used to be a word that instilled pride. Now when I see the word attached to anything it instills mistrust.
Same with “Freedom”.LordMortis wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:49 pmLordMortis wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:34 pm Patriot used to be a word that instilled pride. Now when I see the word attached to anything it instills mistrust.
Actually, that's not true. There are a lot of states where Democrats get over 40%, which would be all that would be needed for a Democratic presidential candidate to win that state:Skinypupy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:34 pmThe downside is that we see the extremism of the "MAGA Party" get amped up 10x to appeal to their moronic horde, and they start gaining even greater representation in Red strongholds. Because let's face it, there are lots of places in this country where there is no way a Democrat is going to win, even if the conservative vote is split.El Guapo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:41 pmI will say that I think the best case scenario for the next couple decades is some type of third-party "Patriot / Trump Party" gains steam. This costs the Republicans a number of elections. More importantly, it creates a broad constituency for (small d) democratic reforms, where Republicans are willing to make a deal and look at stuff like ranked choice voting because the Patriot Party is causing them to lose a lot of elections, and Democrats are willing to make a deal because they're still disadvantaged by a lot of structural elements in our political system (including gerrymandering and voter suppression).Paingod wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:32 pmI've been saying for a while that we really need a three-party system. My vision was for the Left and Right to be joined by a Center. I never considered the implications of fracturing the Right and handing control of everything to Democrats. I suppose the GOP earned this, though. The culmination of 30 years of careful manipulation and planning ends with someone dropping a bowling ball through their glass house.
I'm sure it's not going to play out anywhere like that, but a guy can dream.
Stop it. You're getting my hopes up.Grifman wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:55 pmActually, that's not true. There are a lot of states where Democrats get over 40%, which would be all that would be needed for a Democratic presidential candidate to win that state:Skinypupy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:34 pmThe downside is that we see the extremism of the "MAGA Party" get amped up 10x to appeal to their moronic horde, and they start gaining even greater representation in Red strongholds. Because let's face it, there are lots of places in this country where there is no way a Democrat is going to win, even if the conservative vote is split.El Guapo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:41 pmI will say that I think the best case scenario for the next couple decades is some type of third-party "Patriot / Trump Party" gains steam. This costs the Republicans a number of elections. More importantly, it creates a broad constituency for (small d) democratic reforms, where Republicans are willing to make a deal and look at stuff like ranked choice voting because the Patriot Party is causing them to lose a lot of elections, and Democrats are willing to make a deal because they're still disadvantaged by a lot of structural elements in our political system (including gerrymandering and voter suppression).Paingod wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:32 pmI've been saying for a while that we really need a three-party system. My vision was for the Left and Right to be joined by a Center. I never considered the implications of fracturing the Right and handing control of everything to Democrats. I suppose the GOP earned this, though. The culmination of 30 years of careful manipulation and planning ends with someone dropping a bowling ball through their glass house.
I'm sure it's not going to play out anywhere like that, but a guy can dream.
https://cookpolitical.com/2020-national ... te-tracker
I count only only 14 states where Biden got less than 40%, and a number of those were above 35%. A split in the Republican Party would pretty much guarantee Democratic presidents for the most part.
I'm still skeptical they'll have the fortitude to break off and form a new party.Jaymann wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:42 am Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:
35 DAYS
Barr submits Pirate Resignation Letter. Angry posters want to form Patriot Party (oh please do) and claim the US military will join their Sandbox RebellionTM.
Yeah, I'm deeply skeptical. Hard to say for sure with Trump, though.Alefroth wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:58 pmI'm still skeptical they'll have the fortitude to break off and form a new party.Jaymann wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:42 am Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:
35 DAYS
Barr submits Pirate Resignation Letter. Angry posters want to form Patriot Party (oh please do) and claim the US military will join their Sandbox RebellionTM.
I'm beyond skeptical on this. Trump owns the party outright now. He gained support over the last 4 years and locked in the base. He isn't going to break off. The most it'd be is a re-brand. In the end, there isn't enough "rump" left to split. There are only a handful of 'moderate' Republicans at best right now. They aren't going to go off on the wilderness all on their own especially since the base is fervently controlled by Trump.Alefroth wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:58 pmI'm still skeptical they'll have the fortitude to break off and form a new party.Jaymann wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:42 am Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:
35 DAYS
Barr submits Pirate Resignation Letter. Angry posters want to form Patriot Party (oh please do) and claim the US military will join their Sandbox RebellionTM.
I don't disagree with you but power loves a void. What comes next? Half of the US had been revealed as willing to accept Trumps GOP as a cost of doing business or are IMO worse people than that. That's a big exposure to me that I can't wrap my head around. Even coming into 2016 as a shit sandwich, I still held to the idea that generation landslide was causing the last gasps bigotry to flame out, being used by wealthy corporate short sightedness. I was demonstrably wrong on more than one front, something I used to appreciate as a learning opportunity. I got nuthin' anymore.Smoove_B wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:29 pm The entirety of the GOP should be sent to history's dust bin. They've embraced (figuratively and literally) Trump and actively courted the ugliest parts of our society; they deserve to be collectively retired.
If Nancy Pelosi tries to overturn the people's vote in Iowa's 2nd Congressional District, the losing Democrat candidate will be viewed as illegitimate.
Republican Mariannette Miller-Meeks won, and I look forward to her swearing-in on January 3rd.
Rand Paul rails on how Georgia was supposedly stolen — “but probably most importantly” absentee ballot applications being sent out for the Senate runoffs.
“I’m very, very concerned that if you solicit votes from typically non-voters, that you will affect and change the outcome.”
I'm not familiar with the mechanism that would allow Pelosi to seat her. Is that a constitutional power Pelosi has?Skinypupy wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:44 am As always, rules for thee but not for me.
https://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/13 ... 6501135360
If Nancy Pelosi tries to overturn the people's vote in Iowa's 2nd Congressional District, the losing Democrat candidate will be viewed as illegitimate.
Republican Mariannette Miller-Meeks won, and I look forward to her swearing-in on January 3rd.
Federal Contested Elections Act of 1969Alefroth wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:39 pm I'm not familiar with the mechanism that would allow Pelosi to seat her. Is that a constitutional power Pelosi has?
There's some controversy over the recount, which was apparently not given enough time for absentee ballots (which favor Dems) to be fully checked, and the margin was 6 votes out of 400,000.Alefroth wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:39 pm
I'm not familiar with the mechanism that would allow Pelosi to seat her. Is that a constitutional power Pelosi has?
I mostly figured it was general whinging to cater to the base, not that Pelosi would actually ever swoop in and actually do anything to affect the election.Holman wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:14 pm I'm not sure how Pelosi comes into it, but if McCarthy is whining self-righteously then there must be some way for the Dem to win.
There was a partial recount. It ran out of time to re-count all the absentee votes before it was certified.Jaymann wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:39 pm I don't know the specifics, but can't the 6-vote loser demand a recount? If it costs money, the DNC could pick up the tab.
That would sound like the basis for a legal challenge approximately 6 or 7 thousand times more valid than: But Hugo Chavez!malchior wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:41 pmThere was a partial recount. It ran out of time to re-count all the absentee votes before it was certified.Jaymann wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:39 pm I don't know the specifics, but can't the 6-vote loser demand a recount? If it costs money, the DNC could pick up the tab.
It appears as if there is something to it. She filed a petition to the Committee on House Administration regarding the Federal Contested Elections Act.Skinypupy wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:19 pmI mostly figured it was general whinging to cater to the base, not that Pelosi would actually ever swoop in and actually do anything to affect the election.Holman wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:14 pm I'm not sure how Pelosi comes into it, but if McCarthy is whining self-righteously then there must be some way for the Dem to win.
Just found it incredibly ironic, considering the actions he's personally taken over the past couple weeks.
Well it's tricky. That essentially was what closed down Bush v. Gore. The state certification deadlines. So the candidates legal counsel probably realized informed they they had a poor shot in the courts.Jaymann wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:49 pmThat would sound like the basis for a legal challenge approximately 6 or 7 thousand times more valid than: But Hugo Chavez!malchior wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:41 pmThere was a partial recount. It ran out of time to re-count all the absentee votes before it was certified.Jaymann wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:39 pm I don't know the specifics, but can't the 6-vote loser demand a recount? If it costs money, the DNC could pick up the tab.
I would pay a $29.95 Pay-Per-View charge to watch the Secret Service drag the trespasser out of the White House, in full-blown toddler tantrum mode, complete with kicking and screaming.Jaymann wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:21 amhe is telling aides he will refuse to leave the White House on January 20.
Is Trump's post-presidential Secret Service detail obligated to defend him if he's trespassing?Paingod wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:52 amI would pay a $29.95 Pay-Per-View charge to watch the Secret Service drag the trespasser out of the White House, in full-blown toddler tantrum mode, complete with kicking and screaming.Jaymann wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:21 amhe is telling aides he will refuse to leave the White House on January 20.
The stated rationale also makes no sense. (To paraphrase) We had only a few meetings left but *THEY WERE TOO MUCH TO HANDLE*. This is our national security apparatus. A complete shit show.Skinypupy wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:04 pm So, immediately after massive confirmed cyber-attack by Russia, the Pentagon halts all briefings with the Biden transition team. Seems legit.
Pentagon is playing it down as "we're overwhelmed by meetings and need a break". I remain...skeptical.
Is Chris Miller one of the last minute DoD Trump political appointees? I assume that he is? So hard to read this as anything other than finding an excuse to cut off transition briefings. Question is what else they're doing.malchior wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:09 pmThe stated rationale also makes no sense. (To paraphrase) We had only a few meetings left but *THEY WERE TOO MUCH TO HANDLE*. This is our national security apparatus. A complete shit show.Skinypupy wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:04 pm So, immediately after massive confirmed cyber-attack by Russia, the Pentagon halts all briefings with the Biden transition team. Seems legit.
Pentagon is playing it down as "we're overwhelmed by meetings and need a break". I remain...skeptical.
Talking circles and evading reality is exhausting work.Skinypupy wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:04 pmPentagon is playing it down as "we're overwhelmed by meetings and need a break". I remain...skeptical.