Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:32 pm**

Not sure if that question is directed at me, but if so, I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking.

In any case, sorry to read about your plight, that sounds shitty. How old are you?

That’s unfortunately a very important question that several of us now are finding out to be a factor re: job change.

On a very positive note, labor is tight right now, and seemingly everyone is hiring. It SEEMS to be a great time to be in the market for a job since quite a while.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 pm**

I'm only 50 but my doctor says I have the body of an 80 year old. Right now, it's not about a job change for me. I'm burnt out and I just don't see the path to not being burnt out. I'm feeling done.

A good labor market doesn't mean much if I have nothing in the tank left to work. This is to say nothing of my long neglected home that needs a lot of work just to clean much less fix up.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:01 pm**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 pm I'm only 50 but my doctor says I have the body of an 80 year old. Right now, it's not about a job change for me. I'm burnt out and I just don't see the path to not being burnt out. I'm feeling done.

A good labor market doesn't mean much if I have nothing in the tank left to work. This is to say nothing of my long neglected home that needs a lot of work just to clean much less fix up.

Not trying to advise since I’m not in a great spot myself obviously, but from my perspective, it sounds like you need an extended break, like 2, 3 months (if you can do it, financially).

Quit, give your body and mind a rest, handle your house shit whilst healing up, then start looking for a new job.

Yes, that’s full of risk, especially at our ages, but the alternative looks worse to me: staying there at a job you obviously hate, and just continuing to burn out. Things probably aren’t going to magically get better if you continue on as you are, and will likely get worse.

The alternative risky option gets you rested, and hopefully reset with a new job. It will at least force you to change your mindset and remove you from your current rut.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:03 pm**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 pm I'm only 50 but my doctor says I have the body of an 80 year old.

So you're basically Charlie Watts?

I get where you're coming from. If and when I'm employed again, I think I'll finally give into a sleep study because I wake up every morning exhausted. I soldier on as best I can, but there's a lot of projects I should have been able to complete in these 15 months of unemployment that I just couldn't do.

Yesterday I had interview #3 for a job with an international packaging company. It went well, the last 2 would be with a director and CIO. Since my territory would include their NA headquarters in Chicago, I will have to provide white glove service to the execs (I've done so in the past). it also seems I would be responsible for west coast operations, including Seattle, Sacramento and Fresno. I don't imagine the remaining interviews will be technical in nature (the dude I interviewed with yesterday...a would-be peer, said he liked me and will give good report). Keeping my fingers crossed, the director is in suburban Indianapolis so that will be a video or phone call, the CIO would be in person and I should probably buy my first suit in over 20 years for the occasion if it gets to that point.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:06 pm**

Good luck, sir!

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:13 pm**

Thanks! This week I applied to 4 jobs, one of which came to me. It seems the prospects are improving, but I've been through several of these cycles in the past without result.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:19 pm**

i quit my old contractor position last month (due to 'bore-out' and manager saying my workload was not going to be changing anytime soon) and just began yesterday with a startup company. the difference between the comfortable deadlines and slow pace of the previous job with the 'we have something to prove, and we need to do it fast' breakneck speed of the new company is proving to be a shock to my system, to the point i am wondering what was i thinking when i took this job. can i make four years til my RSUs fully vest?? i don't even want to think about it.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:36 pm**

Good luck! In recent decades, I''ve been risk adverse when it comes to leaving a stable company for a start-up, and until a year ago it was a good strategy. If you're young enough to rebound if things go south, then the upside could be fantastic. I hope it works out for you!

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:57 pm**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 pm I'm only 50 but my doctor says I have the body of an 80 year old. Right now, it's not about a job change for me. I'm burnt out and I just don't see the path to not being burnt out. I'm feeling done.

A good labor market doesn't mean much if I have nothing in the tank left to work. This is to say nothing of my long neglected home that needs a lot of work just to clean much less fix up.

Have you thought about starting a home business, possibly consulting? I have no idea if that's within your wheelhouse, but can you offer any services that people would pay you for as an independent business? Maybe you need to think beyond jobs.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:10 pm**

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:23 am
After I was laid off (let's be clear, I was fired, but won't go into the details about that potentially sordid side story unless someone is interested. Let's just say it involves a late-night haircut in Lima, Peru, and my boss asking to use my laptop at said haircut place. )

That certainly sounds like a fairly epic laying off story. Congrats on finding some solutions to your issues! I'm struggling with ADHD symptoms, brain fog and burnout as well. Hopefully I can navigate them as well as you have!

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:36 am**

Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:03 pm I get where you're coming from. If and when I'm employed again, I think I'll finally give into a sleep study because I wake up every morning exhausted. I soldier on as best I can, but there's a lot of projects I should have been able to complete in these 15 months of unemployment that I just couldn't do.

Do it. And get better.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:57 pm
LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 pm I'm only 50 but my doctor says I have the body of an 80 year old. Right now, it's not about a job change for me. I'm burnt out and I just don't see the path to not being burnt out. I'm feeling done.

A good labor market doesn't mean much if I have nothing in the tank left to work. This is to say nothing of my long neglected home that needs a lot of work just to clean much less fix up.
Have you thought about starting a home business, possibly consulting? I have no idea if that's within your wheelhouse, but can you offer any services that people would pay you for as an independent business? Maybe you need to think beyond jobs.

Don't know. We'll think about it later.

So I was going to be a coward and not tell my boss but then she called me for two problems, I promptly fixed them and told her it's time to find my replacement. She knew I was on a plan to exit in two years, when I believe I could be financially ready. Now she knows I won't make it another tow years here.

So that's that. It's no pirate resignation but now the wheels are motion to let me go. I have no idea how I'm going to bridge the gap but I have several years savings to figure it out.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:57 am**

Good for you, man. Health comes first.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:25 am**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:36 am So that's that. It's no pirate resignation but now the wheels are motion to let me go. I have no idea how I'm going to bridge the gap but I have several years savings to figure it out.

That’s great, LM. What a huge step you’ve taken. It really will help you health-wise but may take a few months to fully understand that you’re done working. It’s a weird shift, especially knowing you’re going from an earning/saving to a spending mindset.

I did the same thing, I spent years planning for an early retirement, getting burned out and not enjoying my work anymore. So much has changed in 35 years of coding and where I was I had no opportunity to do the things I wanted. Getting older and not feeling confident in my skillset to start again at another company, I decided to quit. I told my boss I was leaving in a couple months and set an end date for 12/31/2020. My boss knew earlier in the year that I was preparing to leave and I’m glad I had talked with him then, it made finally pulling the trigger that much easier and gave me time to get things in order.

Nine months later, I feel a lot better and am actually healthier, I’m eating better and exercising more something I always neglected because I constantly worked and was so tired to do anything. I look forward to taking a vacation with my wife and for the first time not be looking at my phone or responding to problems.

I’m still figuring out how I’m going to make it to Social Security to have some income again but for now, I created my own company, started want I always wanted to do and hope for the best.

I wish you well on your journey… it will be exciting and terrifying at the same time, but it’s you making the decisions, not who you work for.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:56 am**

I haven't set an end date but in my mind I'm preparing 12/31/21.

Your story sounds like mine Tectla, and you are giving me comfort that my choice, while maybe not the right one, might not be the wrong one. I have 8.5 years to fill in financially. I believe I have enough for 6 of it if the market doesn't shit the bed for prolonged period. I had been moving more to cash. I'm going to move even more to cash moving forward.

Nine months later, I feel a lot better and am actually healthier, I’m eating better and exercising more something I always neglected because I constantly worked and was so tired to do anything.

This has been me for a decade and it just keeps getting worse and I keep taking more and more drugs to fight it. I'm on *9* prescription meds now.

I don't need to make it to social security, I need to make it 59.5 wherein I believe my 401k and IRAs are enough especially if I start taking SS at 62.

It's my sincere hope that I go a year or two and then find a part time gig somewhere making me enough to bridge the gap but it's scary knowing how much it takes to get by and not having it set aside.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:50 am**

I know that feeling of not thinking you have enough saved. It was my wife that convinced me that I would never feel I had 100% saved enough, she said, “just do it, we’ll figure it out as we go”. So, like you, I need to make it to 59 1/2 where I can begin drawing from IRA. The longer I can put off starting Social Security, the better it will be for my wife when I die so she can receive my benefits.

I planned my entire life to saving for myself, HSA is healthy, I have my IRA and a Roth, and a bunch of savings buckets to handle car maintenance, condo updates, emergencies. My fallback would be our stocks which if I was smarter like you and actively invested, I would have more. I basically bought stock 15 years ago and forgot about it.

Typing this out I probably come across as some neurotic person that can never enjoy what was saved… and to tell you the truth, it’s been difficult to see my savings account slowly drop month after month. With no kids, it’s easier to plan, but man, sometimes I feel irresponsible for doing this. I have no regrets and I'm glad I did this now, otherwise, I probably would end up dying at my work desk.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:31 am**

That's what I'm feeling right now.

I do the math and assume I'm going to have suck it up and find part time work somewhere in a couple of years. But I don't see how I can just keep on keeping on without just having something give out. My brain, my body, my emotional state, some key element of work that destroys other people's livelihoods. Something

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:32 am**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:56 am I haven't set an end date but in my mind I'm preparing 12/31/21.

Your story sounds like mine Tectla, and you are giving me comfort that my choice, while maybe not the right one, might not be the wrong one. I have 8.5 years to fill in financially. I believe I have enough for 6 of it if the market doesn't shit the bed for prolonged period. I had been moving more to cash. I'm going to move even more to cash moving forward.

Nine months later, I feel a lot better and am actually healthier, I’m eating better and exercising more something I always neglected because I constantly worked and was so tired to do anything.
This has been me for a decade and it just keeps getting worse and I keep taking more and more drugs to fight it. I'm on *9* prescription meds now.

I don't need to make it to social security, I need to make it 59.5 wherein I believe my 401k and IRAs are enough especially if I start taking SS at 62.

It's my sincere hope that I go a year or two and then find a part time gig somewhere making me enough to bridge the gap but it's scary knowing how much it takes to get by and not having it set aside.

Sounds like you have it mostly figured out, but what about health insurance?
I would think the price of taking 9 prescriptions without coverage is expensive.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:39 am**

I peg my healthcare to be around $1500 a month through an exchange plan in the ACA at a $790 monthly cost and a $7500 (or was it $6500?) OOP max annually that I'll hit every year. It will be more than all my other monthly budget put together. My scrape by budget $1500 for healthcare inclusive looks like it will be $2800 in today's dollars. I've been watching my monthly average outflow for good while now. No inflation, no disasters, no maintenance, no taxes paid on investments I'll need to cash in, no next car, no dental/vision etc... I've got that but not much more. So I don't think it's enough. If I could have made it two more years, I think I could have made to $4000 a month to make it to 59.5 which I think should have been easily been enough to live the life I am accustomed to but I'm out of gas.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:51 pm**

Carpet_pisser, finding out you had ADHD at 46 is much better than finding it out when you were 56, like me. That's why my life was so fucking hard all the time, and why I felt stupid and broken all the time. Funny thing, I actually read about ADHD in time magazine back in the middle 70s around 75 I think? I never imagined it would be me that was suffering from that, but there was not a snowball's chance in hell that my dad would spend any kind of money that it would take to get me diagnosed, especially since "the belt" was free.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:25 pm**

Now I'll allow myself to get a little bit excited. I've been asked to submit choices for 2 hours of FTF interviews (most of these I believe will be with executives who I would be tasked with white glove support -- I've done so in the past have no problem with this), and finally a video interview with the director (my would-be boss's boss). There may or may not be competition at this point, I just have to not fuck anything up. I don't expect I'll get grilled on technology that I'm unfamiliar with, always a hazard in my line.

This week I've also applied for more jobs than any single week since I've been unemployed -- including one that approached me via LinkedIn (first time a hiring company, not a recruiter, has done so). If I find something soon it will be just in time, otherwise, I'll have to apply to Binny's and work for the employee discount.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:43 pm**

Default wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:51 pm Carpet_pisser, finding out you had ADHD at 46 is much better than finding it out when you were 56, like me. That's why my life was so fucking hard all the time, and why I felt stupid and broken all the time. Funny thing, I actually read about ADHD in time magazine back in the middle 70s around 75 I think? I never imagined it would be me that was suffering from that, but there was not a snowball's chance in hell that my dad would spend any kind of money that it would take to get me diagnosed, especially since "the belt" was free.

I'll try to one-up you then

For YEARS, my mother told me she thought I had it (though to be fair she is this close to being a hypochondriac if she isn't full blown), and I mocked her mercilessly for that. Hell, I didn't even really believe in it myself until the past several years (maybe a few before my diagnosis) and just sooo many of my life's puzzle pieces began to fall into place through the lens of that particular so called disorder. Oddly enough, I'm STILL not 100% convinced that this thing that we call ADHD is what doctors think it is. Mine is 100% the 'inattentive' type, not the hyperactive type, but personally I think it's a lot more complicated (as a disorder) and we have a looong way to go before it's completely understood and even diagnosed properly.

One thing is for sure, my executive functioning (or at least many of them: planning, goal setting, etc) is...non-functional, nothing imaginary about that.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:08 pm**

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:25 pm Now I'll allow myself to get a little bit excited. I've been asked to submit choices for 2 hours of FTF interviews (most of these I believe will be with executives who I would be tasked with white glove support -- I've done so in the past have no problem with this), and finally a video interview with the director (my would-be boss's boss). There may or may not be competition at this point, I just have to not fuck anything up. I don't expect I'll get grilled on technology that I'm unfamiliar with, always a hazard in my line.

This week I've also applied for more jobs than any single week since I've been unemployed -- including one that approached me via LinkedIn (first time a hiring company, not a recruiter, has done so). If I find something soon it will be just in time, otherwise, I'll have to apply to Binny's and work for the employee discount.

Go, Jeff!

Refresh my memory:
How old are you? (IIRC we are close to same age)
How long have you been actively sending out resumes?

I resigned from USPS today (effective tomorrow). I'm on the hunt! At first glance, there seem to be many more jobs in the areas I am interested in than there were a couple of years ago when I was looking (but not looking very hard, I might add).

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:26 pm**

I'm old as fuck. My wife really wanted me to dye my hair before the video interview I had the other day...but it seems Just For Men is no longer available. The calendar says I'm 59, and I'm positive it's a reason I've been out of work so long. A month ago I had an interview for a role I would have been perfect for...even beyond the general requirements, I could have fixed some dysfunction going on (I've done so in the past). But I was a good 20 years older than the director who would be my boss. As good as I thought the interview went, I was really disheartened when the job was reposted 2 weeks later. I'm okay with losing out to a better candidate, but this wasn't the case. I can only assume being old AF had something to do with it.

I've been actively sending out resumes since losing my job June of 2020. After attending a webinar on how to handle being old AF in the job market, I trimmed my resume to the last 15 years (and 2 pages, down from 4 and 30 years). One recruiter expressed that he wasn't a fan of that, I gave him the full CV and while that job was extremely promising (it was with a company that my former company sold and the initial project would have involved separating from my old company...I personally knew everyone I'd be working with on the project), the last correspondence I had was that it was on hold. After poking around, I found out that one IT director who I knew well was sold off to that company...she would have given me an excellent reference but as it turned out, I was being interviewed to replace her!

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:32 pm**

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:26 pm I'm old as fuck. My wife really wanted me to dye my hair before the video interview I had the other day...but it seems Just For Men is no longer available. The calendar says I'm 59, and I'm positive it's a reason I've been out of work so long. A month ago I had an interview for a role I would have been perfect for...even beyond the general requirements, I could have fixed some dysfunction going on (I've done so in the past). But I was a good 20 years older than the director who would be my boss. As good as I thought the interview went, I was really disheartened when the job was reposted 2 weeks later. I'm okay with losing out to a better candidate, but this wasn't the case. I can only assume being old AF had something to do with it.

I've been actively sending out resumes since losing my job June of 2020. After attending a webinar on how to handle being old AF in the job market, I trimmed my resume to the last 15 years (and 2 pages, down from 4 and 30 years). One recruiter expressed that he wasn't a fan of that, I gave him the full CV and while that job was extremely promising (it was with a company that my former company sold and the initial project would have involved separating from my old company...I personally knew everyone I'd be working with on the project), the last correspondence I had was that it was on hold. After poking around, I found out that one IT director who I knew well was sold off to that company...she would have given me an excellent reference but as it turned out, I was being interviewed to replace her!

I really hope this works out for you. I'm curious if you've been applying for jobs in academia. In my limited experience, ageism is not a big barrier to university staff. That's the only economic sector where I believe that to be true.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:46 pm**

Meanwhile, I’m in full panic mode apparently, even though nothing has happened on the job front. This has everything to do with the fact that I’m a walking bundle of neurosis.

I think I’ve eaten three times in the last 4 days. I’m sleeping 10 hours a night. And I barely speak at work. One of the VPs I’m close to asked me what was going on today, and I just point blank told him I’m convinced my job is going to disappear. He kept telling me not to worry, to trust him when he said that was not the plan at all, but I still believe the buyout will result in layoffs (even though we’re a small company that they say they want to grow).

I know I’ll never make nearly what I’m making now, and I’m kind of okay with that part. I really don’t spend that much, I’ve discovered recently. I was planning on retiring about 60 or 62 anyway. I could pay my rent for about 4 years with my savings account, and I have a little over a mil in my 401k. So I can cover things until I hit 67 and full SS kicks in to supplement my withdrawals, I imagine.

But 55 seems too early. I would have preferred to build up my retirement fund some more.

One thing I’ve been contemplating if the hammer falls is maybe heading back to Ohio to take care of my father. He’s nearing 90 and it would be nice to be there for him, instead of always two states away. It would give me time to calm down, think about the next phase of my life and chart a course. And reconnecting with him would be good for me, I think.

Not buying a house is a blessing and a curse in that while I don’t have the equity, I also don’t have the expenses that come with home ownership. And I can pick up and go wherever I want once I’ve had some time to contemplate things. Although I could fix my father’s place up while taking care of him. He’s leaving it to my brother and I, so it would help out in other ways beyond keeping me sane while I’m taking stock.

I could also just stay in Chicago for a while longer. Try to find another job to take me to 60 or so. I’ll be lucky to make even half of what I make now, as I said. But if it gave me health insurance and helped me avoid taking money out of my 401k under the IRS Rule of 55, it would be worth it.

All I know is that no matter what happens in the next 6 months or so, I can’t put myself through this much longer. I hope my psyche adjusts soon.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:57 pm**

On the plus side you have plenty of time to hone your pirate resignation letter to a fine edge.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:18 pm**

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:32 pm I really hope this works out for you. I'm curious if you've been applying for jobs in academia.

That might be, but they are also sticklers in requiring specific degrees, much more so than the general market. There really wasn't such a thing as an IT degree when I was in college, and even general computer classes were full by the time they got to "V". I made my first dime on my education 10 years after college when I started publishing historical articles at The Wargamer. By then, I was well into my self-taught IT career.

I've looked at numerous opportunities in the education field, and maybe fruitlessly applied for a few. Mostly they struck me as the education requirements being out of sync with the technical requirements. I apply for jobs that credit experience in lieu of a specific degree or other education, I do not for jobs that bluntly state specific degrees are required.

A friend of mine once advised me to try to get into education, adding that once you're in, you're a made man. So he thought. He was a New Yorker living in Austin, and the culture clash was strong with him. He did manage to do what he thought impossible...got himself canned from a tech support job with the local junior college. The New Yorker in him blinded him to just how out-of-sync he was with Texan culture. To his credit, he's still in Austin. Not sure what he's doing now, though.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:25 pm**

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:46 pm Meanwhile, I’m in full panic mode apparently, even though nothing has happened on the job front. This has everything to do with the fact that I’m a walking bundle of neurosis.

If I was in your situation, I'd just sit back and see what happens. You have plenty of resources...you could easily live out the rest of your years as the Gimp in tgb's Mexican basement if it came to that. Staying in Chicago might not be the best use of your retirement resources, though.

Apparently, the condo my wife bought us as eventual retirement property in Manila has appreciated by 1 million pesos since we bought in, and it's not even done yet. That translates to about $20K, which is a better return than my 401k in the same period.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:45 pm**

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:46 pm Meanwhile, I’m in full panic mode apparently, even though nothing has happened on the job front. This has everything to do with the fact that I’m a walking bundle of neurosis.

I think I’ve eaten three times in the last 4 days. I’m sleeping 10 hours a night. And I barely speak at work. One of the VPs I’m close to asked me what was going on today, and I just point blank told him I’m convinced my job is going to disappear. He kept telling me not to worry, to trust him when he said that was not the plan at all, but I still believe the buyout will result in layoffs (even though we’re a small company that they say they want to grow).

I know I’ll never make nearly what I’m making now, and I’m kind of okay with that part. I really don’t spend that much, I’ve discovered recently. I was planning on retiring about 60 or 62 anyway. I could pay my rent for about 4 years with my savings account, and I have a little over a mil in my 401k. So I can cover things until I hit 67 and full SS kicks in to supplement my withdrawals, I imagine.

But 55 seems too early. I would have preferred to build up my retirement fund some more.

One thing I’ve been contemplating if the hammer falls is maybe heading back to Ohio to take care of my father. He’s nearing 90 and it would be nice to be there for him, instead of always two states away. It would give me time to calm down, think about the next phase of my life and chart a course. And reconnecting with him would be good for me, I think.

Not buying a house is a blessing and a curse in that while I don’t have the equity, I also don’t have the expenses that come with home ownership. And I can pick up and go wherever I want once I’ve had some time to contemplate things. Although I could fix my father’s place up while taking care of him. He’s leaving it to my brother and I, so it would help out in other ways beyond keeping me sane while I’m taking stock.

I could also just stay in Chicago for a while longer. Try to find another job to take me to 60 or so. I’ll be lucky to make even half of what I make now, as I said. But if it gave me health insurance and helped me avoid taking money out of my 401k under the IRS Rule of 55, it would be worth it.

All I know is that no matter what happens in the next 6 months or so, I can’t put myself through this much longer. I hope my psyche adjusts soon.

I hope your paranoia was not fueled by my comments about VC buyers being like "flippers". While that does happen quite often, one thing I failed to mention was the following:

our small company was bought at the same time as another much larger company, and the two of us were kind of merged into one division under the buying company. My (new) boss was a Sr VP at that larger, bought company, and while I was complaining about the differences and stresses of being bought out and adapting to a completely new culture, he scoffed at me and told me that they had been bought and sold four or five times in the previous 10 years. or something crazy like that. I remember him saying SOME of the VC's that bought them were actually awesome, COMPLETELY hands off, and just let them continue on as they had been.

Not sure which is likelier, and I also don't want to sugar-coat being an employee of a company that is getting ready to be bought (I've been in that situation twice), so hope for the best so you don't drive yourself nuts, but at the same time prepare for the worst just in case. Also, "the worst" happens to almost EVERYBODY these days, or has happened.

I don't think any potential employer in modern times would look down on or be surprised at someone they interview telling them that they were laid off after a buyout. Super, super common.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:58 pm**

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:18 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:32 pm I really hope this works out for you. I'm curious if you've been applying for jobs in academia.
That might be, but they are also sticklers in requiring specific degrees, much more so than the general market.

Aye, academia is hung up on credentials, since that's their product. But they are more age-blind than any other sector I know of.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:15 pm**

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:45 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:46 pm Meanwhile, I’m in full panic mode apparently, even though nothing has happened on the job front. This has everything to do with the fact that I’m a walking bundle of neurosis.

I think I’ve eaten three times in the last 4 days. I’m sleeping 10 hours a night. And I barely speak at work. One of the VPs I’m close to asked me what was going on today, and I just point blank told him I’m convinced my job is going to disappear. He kept telling me not to worry, to trust him when he said that was not the plan at all, but I still believe the buyout will result in layoffs (even though we’re a small company that they say they want to grow).

I know I’ll never make nearly what I’m making now, and I’m kind of okay with that part. I really don’t spend that much, I’ve discovered recently. I was planning on retiring about 60 or 62 anyway. I could pay my rent for about 4 years with my savings account, and I have a little over a mil in my 401k. So I can cover things until I hit 67 and full SS kicks in to supplement my withdrawals, I imagine.

But 55 seems too early. I would have preferred to build up my retirement fund some more.

One thing I’ve been contemplating if the hammer falls is maybe heading back to Ohio to take care of my father. He’s nearing 90 and it would be nice to be there for him, instead of always two states away. It would give me time to calm down, think about the next phase of my life and chart a course. And reconnecting with him would be good for me, I think.

Not buying a house is a blessing and a curse in that while I don’t have the equity, I also don’t have the expenses that come with home ownership. And I can pick up and go wherever I want once I’ve had some time to contemplate things. Although I could fix my father’s place up while taking care of him. He’s leaving it to my brother and I, so it would help out in other ways beyond keeping me sane while I’m taking stock.

I could also just stay in Chicago for a while longer. Try to find another job to take me to 60 or so. I’ll be lucky to make even half of what I make now, as I said. But if it gave me health insurance and helped me avoid taking money out of my 401k under the IRS Rule of 55, it would be worth it.

All I know is that no matter what happens in the next 6 months or so, I can’t put myself through this much longer. I hope my psyche adjusts soon.
I hope your paranoia was not fueled by my comments about VC buyers being like "flippers". While that does happen quite often, one thing I failed to mention was the following:

our small company was bought at the same time as another much larger company, and the two of us were kind of merged into one division under the buying company. My (new) boss was a Sr VP at that larger, bought company, and while I was complaining about the differences and stresses of being bought out and adapting to a completely new culture, he scoffed at me and told me that they had been bought and sold four or five times in the previous 10 years. or something crazy like that. I remember him saying SOME of the VC's that bought them were actually awesome, COMPLETELY hands off, and just let them continue on as they had been.

Not sure which is likelier, and I also don't want to sugar-coat being an employee of a company that is getting ready to be bought (I've been in that situation twice), so hope for the best so you don't drive yourself nuts, but at the same time prepare for the worst just in case. Also, "the worst" happens to almost EVERYBODY these days, or has happened.

I don't think any potential employer in modern times would look down on or be surprised at someone they interview telling them that they were laid off after a buyout. Super, super common.

This last bit is gospel. It's so common that you just have to work it into your narrative. The question will be asked why you're looking and talking about a merger almost always is neutral and can be spun positively. Buyouts can be super lucrative too as mentioned. Up until about 6 years ago I worked at an energy company that went through 12-ish mergers in 4 years. Some small and some doubling the company each time. I saw a lot of people get cut but never saw anyone really take a big personal hit due to it. What most people don't see is that the funny money in these mergers/VC take overs is insane.

They'll pay retention bonuses to ease transitions. They often pay huge severance packages especially if you're older. In one of the last ones I was part of I was desperately hoping I'd get cut. Instead I got a promotion. People who got cut made serious BANK. I knew several people who got serious money to stay on 6-9 months. Then they got a severance package of nearly a year. One literally was interviewing in the middle of the day in the office. LOL. It might be a bit scary but it often can be a bit of a blessing.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:25 pm**

They'll pay retention bonuses to ease transitions. They often pay huge severance packages especially if you're older. In one of the last ones I was part of I was desperately hoping I'd get cut. Instead I got a promotion. People who got cut made serious BANK. I knew several people who got serious money to stay on 6-9 months. Then they got a severance package of nearly a year. One literally was interviewing in the middle of the day in the office. LOL. It might be a bit scary but it often can be a bit of a blessing.

Totally the case for me as well. So many of us in sales were so freaking stressed out, even top sales people (myself included) that had amazing track records, were underperforming and not getting close to quota, quarter after quarter. MANY of us were sincerely saying out loud "please, fire me!" knowing that the severance package was massive (almost all of us had been in our respective companies for 10+ years). I was shocked SHOCKED at how many from our small company QUIT, just walked away from that $$ (maybe they didn't realize they would be paid for their time at the bought company as well, or maybe they just lost their shit completely, and no amount of money would get them to work there one more day). Mine was more than most, because I had been there forever, but several people who had worked with me for 10 years quit. That's giving up more than a year's salary, in one lump sum payment AND the "no premium" health plan coverage for about 6-8 months after the termination date IIRC.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:26 am**

Best of luck, LM. I can't know what the stress you're experiencing from exiting before your planned timeframe feels like, but I (think I) know you to be pretty financially conservative. I think you'll be fine getting to where you want to be. And in any event, your physical and mental health is worth prioritizing. Congrats on having the fortitude to make a change.

Also sending positive vibes to the rest of you enduring or contemplating major changes.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:17 am**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:26 am Also sending positive vibes to the rest of you enduring or contemplating major changes.

Same.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:26 am**

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:45 pm I hope your paranoia was not fueled by my comments about VC buyers being like "flippers.

No, this is all started before that.

I’ve been here 20 years and half expected to retire while working here. That may still happen, but it’s increasingly likely it won’t be on my terms.

But most of this is because I don’t deal well with change. I used to be in therapy years ago. I should probably go back while I have a health plan that covers it. This isn’t healthy.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:52 am**

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:46 pm Meanwhile, I’m in full panic mode apparently, even though nothing has happened on the job front.

It sounds like you have a good cushion and the Rule of 55 is in your favor. Hopefully that can take root in your mind somewhere and provide you a bit of comfort. Being in fear for your job is no good. Boy, do I know that. But having security ought to take most of the sting out.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:25 pm If I was in your situation, I'd just sit back and see what happens. You have plenty of resources...you could easily live out the rest of your years as the Gimp in tgb's Mexican basement if it came to that. Staying in Chicago might not be the best use of your retirement resources, though.

Apparently, the condo my wife bought us as eventual retirement property in Manila has appreciated by 1 million pesos since we bought in, and it's not even done yet. That translates to about $20K, which is a better return than my 401k in the same period.

I was thinking Z's couch.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:26 am I (think I) know you to be pretty financially conservative. .

Oh yeah, I'm a cheap fucker. Still I don't have quite enough ducks in a row. Unless I have a short life.

then I can dip into the 401/IRA before 59.5.

I do think I'm in good shape to take a few years off and hopefully be in a good way to find a low stress part time job then. I should be OK with that.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:42 am**

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:57 pm On the plus side you have plenty of time to hone your pirate resignation letter to a fine edge.

Hepcat: I'm retiring.

Boss: Really? Why?

Hepcat: I want to finish Fallout 4.

Boss: Are...are you okay? I think you should see a professional.

Hepcat: <pulls out ridiculously large hypodermic needle and taps the end twice> I think I'll be just fine.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:47 am**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:52 amOh yeah, I'm a cheap fucker. Still I don't have quite enough ducks in a row. Unless I have a short life. then I can dip into the 401/IRA before 59.5. I do think I'm in good shape to take a few years off and hopefully be in a good way to find a low stress part time job then. I should be OK with that.

Sounds like a plan.

Not to turn the thread dark, but I've had multiple extended family members set a retirement date, then pass away less than a year before the date hits. These experiences had a big impact on my views of planning for 'the future' in some nebulous form vs ensuring that I'm taking care of me and mine today. The only time we're guaranteed is the present--major props for doing what's best for you and your physical/mental health now rather than putting it off.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:28 am**

I can't imagine taking care of a family. It's a regret in life but also a relief. I'd be much less secure now and I can only imagine the stress that would put on me. I keep saying it but I have no idea how people do it. None.

I don't believe I know those who have died shortly before retirement but I've known enough who within a few years after retirement. That's a risk I'm willing to take.

Of course, I can't guarantee that leaving my job will be my retirement. It's just opening me up to the great unknown vs the very known ever downward spiral. Also, we haven't discussed an exit date or plan, so there's still plenty of time for my kick the bucket.

Now, rather than putting it off is overstatement. I should have walked away years and years ago but I've always been terrified of having to find another way. I'm still terrified but I'm under the delusion that I have enough set aside to protect me if I keep it very humble.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:00 pm**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:28 am I can't imagine taking care of a family. It's a regret in life but also a relief. I'd be much less secure now and I can only imagine the stress that would put on me. I keep saying it but I have no idea how people do it. None.

I don't believe I know those who have died shortly before retirement but I've known enough who within a few years after retirement. That's a risk I'm willing to take. Of course, I can't guarantee that leaving my job will be my retirement. It's just opening me up to the great unknown vs the very known ever downward spiral. Also, we haven't discussed an exit date or plan, so there's still plenty of time for my kick the bucket.

Now, rather than putting it off is overstatement. I should have walked away years and years ago but I've always been terrified of having to find another way. I'm still terrified but I'm under the delusion that I have enough set aside to protect me if I keep it very humble.

You can always do part time work, or gig work VERY easily (and immediately). Do you have a Whole Foods near you by chance?

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