COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

[Smoove_B]

I only saw a headline alert and can't find the details.

If it does anything to help with employment/travel/recreational mandates, it'll be a good thing. I suppose that is misleading to not be clear on "for whom".

EDIT: Ah, here's one.

[Max Peck]

My understanding is that full approval will remove some legal barriers to vaccine mandates (e.g. once it is fully approved the US military can make vaccination mandatory, whereas they are legally prohibited from doing so while it is still under the emergency authorization). I expect that the anti-vax crowd will simply adjust their talking points to say that the experimental vaccine has been approved due to political pressure and carry as they have been so far.

[LawBeefaroni]

My understanding is that full approval will remove some legal barriers to vaccine mandates (e.g. once it is fully approved the US military can make vaccination mandatory, whereas they are legally prohibited from doing so while it is still under the emergency authorization). I expect that the anti-vax crowd will simply adjust their talking points to say that the experimental vaccine has been approved due to political pressure and carry as they have been so far.

We've been waiting on full approval to mandate. We probably would have mandated under EUA at some point but full approval makes it much easier.

[Lorini]

My understanding is that full approval will remove some legal barriers to vaccine mandates (e.g. once it is fully approved the US military can make vaccination mandatory, whereas they are legally prohibited from doing so while it is still under the emergency authorization). I expect that the anti-vax crowd will simply adjust their talking points to say that the experimental vaccine has been approved due to political pressure and carry as they have been so far.

In the US, many marginalized people are not getting the vaccinations and it's not because they are anti-vaxxers or right wingers. Black and Latino people have been treated badly by public health and health care in general and they don't trust the information they are getting. Let me put it this way, 80% of Black people voted against Trump but only 40% are vaccinated. There is more to the issue with vaccinations than simply shaking fists at anti-vaxxers.

[Zarathud]

My former black paralegal used the pandemic to shift to holistic medicine approaches and her health suffered greatly. Her distrust of “the medical system” was off the charts, while she easily believed some wild unscientific claims about dietary supplements.

I was not surprised to read about Russian Facebook disinformation campaigns targeting her community. Her change in attitude was striking.

And I get it. I’ve heard tales of Chicago’s Father Pfleger confronting then Chicago Mayor Daley over his black south side parish being inundated with alcohol and cigarette ads in the 70/80s, before anything changed. No one noticed the deliberate targeting, or someone in the machine looked the other way for $$.

[hitbyambulance]

working on that universal ('chimeric') coronavirus vaccine...

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/could ... be-reality

[Isgrimnur]

My former black paralegal

What color is she now? Did she turn blue from colloidal silver?

[Zarathud]

Invisible. A former colleague gave her an offer to work in a more stressful workplace.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

There may be still a debate to be had as to whether people from wealthier nations should be able to get a booster shot before people from other countries can't get their first dose, but all indications seem to be that a booster shot *significantly* increases the immune response:

https://twitter.com/megtirrell/status/1 ... 43812?s=20

Moderna says lab studies show a booster w half the dose of its #covid19 vaccine increases antibody levels against delta by 42-fold

[LawBeefaroni]

As long as we're still destroying expired vaccines here, I see no reason not to use them for boosters. The better off we are, the more quickly we can produce more vaccines and handle the logistics of getting the to the nations that need them. This is in our interest too, since these nations are breeding variants with I checked spread.

[Smoove_B]

Another perspective:

Research into boosters remains an essential part of the pandemic response because if protection from existing Covid-19 vaccines does eventually start to wane or new variants emerge that are more resistant to vaccines, then boosters could potentially offer enhanced protection.

But both these scenarios will become self-fulfilling prophecies if countries with high Covid vaccine coverage start making boosters available now, and to all citizens, because it will delay efforts to protect more people. The sooner we start using boosters, the more likely we’ll need them.

By far the best way to avoid both these scenarios is to focus efforts and resources on stopping the spread of the virus now. That means making more efficient use of the vaccines we have by protecting people most at risk in all corners of the world, which will help to avoid the emergence of new variants.

[stessier]

Another perspective:

Research into boosters remains an essential part of the pandemic response because if protection from existing Covid-19 vaccines does eventually start to wane or new variants emerge that are more resistant to vaccines, then boosters could potentially offer enhanced protection.

But both these scenarios will become self-fulfilling prophecies if countries with high Covid vaccine coverage start making boosters available now, and to all citizens, because it will delay efforts to protect more people. The sooner we start using boosters, the more likely we’ll need them.

By far the best way to avoid both these scenarios is to focus efforts and resources on stopping the spread of the virus now. That means making more efficient use of the vaccines we have by protecting people most at risk in all corners of the world, which will help to avoid the emergence of new variants.

I get that, but in a country where people flat out refuse vaccinations, one can also limit the spread by boosting the others. Like, I could see Vermont with it's crazy high vaccination rate delaying boosters, but they could be a big benefit in, say, South Carolina with one of the lowest rates.

[Smoove_B]

The actual answer is start making sure that people who are repeatedly outright refusing vaccinations start to pay a literal and figurative price as part of their existence in polite society.

I'm not a betting man, but I would put money on the virus right now to figure this out if we don't start getting more people vaccinated globally.

Some wealthy countries have vaccinated about two-thirds of their population against the coronavirus, while just 1.1 per cent of people in low-income countries have received their first jab.

That is a recipe for disaster. We can offer boosters for high risk people, but as a broad policy in the U.S.? I'm with the group saying it's problematic. I also acknowledge this isn't an easy decision by any means. But I do personally think we need to elevate global vaccination levels as a priority.

[LawBeefaroni]

Another perspective:

Research into boosters remains an essential part of the pandemic response because if protection from existing Covid-19 vaccines does eventually start to wane or new variants emerge that are more resistant to vaccines, then boosters could potentially offer enhanced protection.

But both these scenarios will become self-fulfilling prophecies if countries with high Covid vaccine coverage start making boosters available now, and to all citizens, because it will delay efforts to protect more people. The sooner we start using boosters, the more likely we’ll need them.

By far the best way to avoid both these scenarios is to focus efforts and resources on stopping the spread of the virus now. That means making more efficient use of the vaccines we have by protecting people most at risk in all corners of the world, which will help to avoid the emergence of new variants.

Again, we're destroying a non-trivial number of doses. Reallocating those doomed shots as boosters should not significantly impact distribution of other doses to RoW.

[dbt1949]

Yesterday Arkansas doubled the single day vaccination rate. They figured it had to do with everybody going back to school.

[Blackhawk]

The actual answer is start making sure that people who are repeatedly outright refusing vaccinations start to pay a literal and figurative price as part of their existence in polite society.

That can't be the actual answer, as there is no avenue to it happening. That may be the ideal answer, it may be a hypothetical solution, but it is outside of reality.

So I suppose the questions I would ask: Are the doses going to waste? And can we actually get them somewhere that they'll actually be pumped into flesh as opposed to just going bad in a different warehouse while people refuse?

If the answers are 'no' and 'yes', then yeah. Get it moving. Anything else and it's just an exercise.

[Lorini]

The actual answer is start making sure that people who are repeatedly outright refusing vaccinations start to pay a literal and figurative price as part of their existence in polite society.

I'm not a betting man, but I would put money on the virus right now to figure this out if we don't start getting more people vaccinated globally.

Some wealthy countries have vaccinated about two-thirds of their population against the coronavirus, while just 1.1 per cent of people in low-income countries have received their first jab.

That is a recipe for disaster. We can offer boosters for high risk people, but as a broad policy in the U.S.? I'm with the group saying it's problematic. I also acknowledge this isn't an easy decision by any means. But I do personally think we need to elevate global vaccination levels as a priority.

The unvaccinated aren't going to start getting boosters because they are there. Providing boosters does little to fix the actual problem which is too many unvaccinated people.

[Blackhawk]

But it could stop the idiots from taking the rest of us out with them. With a kid in a zero-precaution school in a spiking county in a spiking state in a spiking country, that extra layer of protection could be worth it.

(Note that I'm not arguing for boosters - or against them. I'm too uninformed on the issue to take a stance other than advocating devilishly while figuring it out.)

[LawBeefaroni]

The actual answer is start making sure that people who are repeatedly outright refusing vaccinations start to pay a literal and figurative price as part of their existence in polite society.

I'm not a betting man, but I would put money on the virus right now to figure this out if we don't start getting more people vaccinated globally.

Some wealthy countries have vaccinated about two-thirds of their population against the coronavirus, while just 1.1 per cent of people in low-income countries have received their first jab.

That is a recipe for disaster. We can offer boosters for high risk people, but as a broad policy in the U.S.? I'm with the group saying it's problematic. I also acknowledge this isn't an easy decision by any means. But I do personally think we need to elevate global vaccination levels as a priority.

The unvaccinated aren't going to start getting boosters because they are there. Providing boosters does little to fix the actual problem which is too many unvaccinated people.

You can't get a booster without an initial vaccination. The point is they of they don't want to get vaccinations and we are throwing the doses out, they should be used for boosters instead. Of we can get them to country that needs them, great. But that's not happening right now.

[LawBeefaroni]

The actual answer is start making sure that people who are repeatedly outright refusing vaccinations start to pay a literal and figurative price as part of their existence in polite society.

That can't be the actual answer, as there is no avenue to it happening. That may be the ideal answer, it may be a hypothetical solution, but it is outside of reality.

So I suppose the questions I would ask: Are the doses going to waste? And can we actually get them somewhere that they'll actually be pumped into flesh as opposed to just going bad in a different warehouse while people refuse?

If the answers are 'no' and 'yes', then yeah. Get it moving. Anything else and it's just an exercise.

Yes and no/maybe.


Yes, they are going to waste.

More than 110,000 doses of Covid-19 vaccine have been destroyed in Georgia since December 2020, when vaccines were first administered in the state, Georgia health officials said.

Georgia Department of Health spokesperson Nancy Nydam told CNN that 110,079 doses were destroyed because they were not being used.
There are various reason for vaccines to go unused, according to Nydam, including doses not being needed after being prepared, parent or child refusal, damaged vials, syringe leaks and apparent contamination.

In RoW it's logistics. There were 450K destroyed across Africa...out of a 900K shipment. If we (or the EU in this case) unload a bunch of a region that can't distribute, we're just throwing more away. It's a top priority to get it out there but not blindly.

Do we boost? We should probably start considering higher risk populations like elderly and immunocompromised.

[Scuzz]

My understanding is that full approval will remove some legal barriers to vaccine mandates (e.g. once it is fully approved the US military can make vaccination mandatory, whereas they are legally prohibited from doing so while it is still under the emergency authorization). I expect that the anti-vax crowd will simply adjust their talking points to say that the experimental vaccine has been approved due to political pressure and carry as they have been so far.

In the US, many marginalized people are not getting the vaccinations and it's not because they are anti-vaxxers or right wingers. Black and Latino people have been treated badly by public health and health care in general and they don't trust the information they are getting. Let me put it this way, 80% of Black people voted against Trump but only 40% are vaccinated. There is more to the issue with vaccinations than simply shaking fists at anti-vaxxers.

A general mis-trust of the government can lead you many places. I would also wonder how available the shots are in some neighborhoods. Poorer areas tend to not have a CVS or Walgreens on every other corner. Or pharmacies for that matter.

[Alefroth]

But I do personally think we need to elevate global vaccination levels as a priority.

Do you know what the biggest barrier to global vaccination is?

[Smoove_B]

Do you know what the biggest barrier to global vaccination is?

Development of doses and then logistics. Rich nations are holding all the cards; same as it ever was.

[Alefroth]

Do you know what the biggest barrier to global vaccination is?

Development of doses and then logistics. Rich nations are holding all the cards; same as it ever was.

So production and distribution, basically? No problem!

[Smoove_B]

But seriously, as others have started pointing out, we (America) is at the point where we've produced more than is being used and it's going bad. So we need to do a better job of inventory/logistics management - making sure we have enough for kids, unvaccinated folks and targeted boosters and still somehow get our actual surplus supply to organizations that are coordinating delivery to nations in need.

I won't pretend that I understand any of that, but I agree with others that are frustrated that we have vaccine going bad here in the U.S. right now. I honestly don't know how logistics people are doing it - trying to decode the "unvaccinated' label as they are not monolithic here in America.

[Victoria Raverna]

Do you know what the biggest barrier to global vaccination is?

Development of doses and then logistics. Rich nations are holding all the cards; same as it ever was.

Seem to me the biggest barrier is the social media, human rights and democracy. In the past, the government of less developed countries can pretty much educate the population by using state media and also can force people. Now that is nearly impossible. To get people to vaccinate, the government need to counter the misinformation that people spread using social media. For example in Indonesia, right now there are sizeable population that are against COVID-19 vaccine, their reason is that people are dying after getting vaccinated. That is actually not hoax, some people that are vaccinated died. But if you look at Indonesia's death rate, with 50 millions of population getting vaccine, there'll be more than 800 death per day because that is the average before COVID-19. Vaccinated or not from 50 millions, there are going to be more than 800 death each day.

[hitbyambulance]

what further % of the 'already contracted C19 and still living' US population can be added to that 'fully vaccinated' number? the surviving Delta-infected are going to be pretty robust, one would think.

[LawBeefaroni]

what further % of the 'already contracted C19 and still living' US population can be added to that 'fully vaccinated' number? the surviving Delta-infected are going to be pretty robust, one would think.

That's the argument for the apparent UK plateau.

[stessier]

Daughter turned 12 today and got the shot at 9:45. It's a good day.

[Blackhawk]

Daughter turned 12 today and got the shot at 9:45. It's a good day.

And momma cooked a breakfast with no hog!

Awesome, and congratulations.

[AWS260]

Daughter turned 12 today and got the shot at 9:45. It's a good day.

That's excellent news. I can't wait for our 11.6-year-old to be eligible.

[Lorini]

Daughter turned 12 today and got the shot at 9:45. It's a good day.

Tell her we said Happy Birthday!

[coopasonic]

Daughter turned 12 today and got the shot at 9:45. It's a good day.

I'm jealous. 5 weeks to go here and school starts next week.

Oh yeah and happy birthday!

[Max Peck]

CNN fires unvaccinated employees for going to office

US news network CNN has sacked three employees for going into an office without having been vaccinated against Covid, US media say.

It is one of the first examples of a US firm firing staff for breaching a company vaccination mandate.

It is legal in the US for firms to require employees to be vaccinated.

Many large firms - including Facebook and Google - say they will require employees to be vaccinated when offices fully re-open in the months ahead.

CNN chief Jeff Zucker mentioned the dismissal in a company memo sent on Thursday and seen by several US media outlets.

Vaccination is mandatory for anyone reporting in the field, working with any other employees or going into an office, he is quoted as saying in the memo.

"Let me be clear - we have a zero-tolerance policy on this," Mr Zucker, chairman of news and sports for WarnerMedia, is quoted as saying.

[Zaxxon]

Daughter turned 12 today and got the shot at 9:45. It's a good day.

I'm surprised you waited so long.

Seriously, congrats.

[Zaxxon]

https://twitter.com/smotus/status/14241 ... 24512?s=19

[Smoove_B]

A (brief) guide for parents as we get closer to the school year

https://twitter.com/cmyeaton/status/1424376771743473664

I’ve been vocal about my frustration that some schools are giving up covid control measures. But if you’re a parent with kids in school, you’ve probably got to work with what you’ve got. Here is news you can use. 1/7

[JCC]

My two best friends are doctors. One is a pediatrician in a private practice. The other works for in primary care for a publically run medical system. In both cases madates are going to be enforced soon for all employees to be vaccinated. Both of them told me yesterday that they expect 15-20% of the employees are going to be let go because they flat out refuse to get the vaccination. The most shocking thing to me is that their anecdotal data was that the majority of these employees were nurses (ie. have had extensive medical training). People who ABSOLUTLEY should know better won't even get the damn vaccine.

The disinformation on vaccines is actively harming the world.

[Smoove_B]

Yes, it's been an issue nationwide for 2+ decades, mainly with the annual influenza shots. And it's also an issue in continuing care facilities where you have paraprofessionals that have direct patient contact (senior centers, outpatient therapy) - patients that are high risk - that refuse to vaccinate themselves.

The medical establishment at large needs to clamp down on it and states need to make sure they have regulations on the books to prod them along.

[Lorini]

Yes, it's been an issue nationwide for 2+ decades, mainly with the annual influenza shots. And it's also an issue in continuing care facilities where you have paraprofessionals that have direct patient contact (senior centers, outpatient therapy) - patients that are high risk - that refuse to vaccinate themselves.

The medical establishment at large needs to clamp down on it and states need to make sure they have regulations on the books to prod them along.

I'm waiting to see what happens after the FDA fully approves the vaccines. Many places say they've been reluctant to mandate vaccines because they are being provided on an emergency approval and they are afraid of lawsuits.