Octopus Overlords

JCC wrote:My two best friends are doctors...Both of them told me yesterday that they expect 15-20% of the employees are going to be let go because they flat out refuse to get the vaccination. The most shocking thing to me is that their anecdotal data was that the majority of these employees were nurses (ie. have had extensive medical training). People who ABSOLUTLEY should know better won't even get the damn vaccine.

I think this is the situation playing out in medical offices and hospitals all over. I know that the resistance of supposedly well-educated staff to getting vaccinated is a big deal around me in CT. I was working with a surgeon a few days ago who said half of his office staff are afraid of losing their jobs because they refuse to take the vaccine, and most of those people are young nurses. The interesting part is that mandates are soon to be almost inescapable for any kind of medical personnel in the state. It's not just one hospital or office mandating vaccination, it's everywhere in the state. If someone refuses the vaccine, it's not like they'll be able to just find another job nearby. The resistance is mind-boggling, and most of it is based on politics; noone should be forcing them to inject a foreign substance into their bodies.

The governor of CT signed a pretty dramatic executive order on Friday that requires all workers in long-term care facility to be vaccinated, with their first dose received by 9/7. This means that not only are healthcare workers in hospitals and many offices required to get the vaccine, but also anyone working in a nursing home, assisted living, rehab facility, home for intellectually disabled, or similar business. Anyone not vaccinated by the deadline will subject their respective facility to a $20,000 civil penalty per day. I'm sure this will be protested soon enough, but this type of order has held up in court pretty well in other areas so far. Should be interesting to see what happens...

disarm wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:42 pm The resistance is mind-boggling, and most of it is based on politics; noone should be forcing them to inject a foreign substance into their bodies.

I get the bodily autonomy argument and I'm not unsympathetic. I have used it myself regarding abortion and drugs. But your autonomy ends when your behavior endangers the lives of those around you. You still have free agency to refuse vaccination -- you just can't work in a health-care setting, and ideally not in any capacity that involves interacting with other humans.

Hospitals and long-term care facilities can ill afford to lose up to 20% of their staff...but they also can't afford to have those staffers falling ill or sickening other people. This works if the whole industry has to follow the same rules and those workers know that refusing a vaccine means giving up their livelihood.

Saw a sign that said something like "This is America. We dont need a card to go where we want and do what we want".

Others pointed out that yes you need a drivers license to go where you want and you need cards like a library card, fishing and hunting card, etc etc.

Maybe in place of a vaccine requirement, medical facilities and businesses could require a negative test before coming to work each shift.

Alefroth wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:54 pm Maybe in place of a vaccine requirement, medical facilities and businesses could require a negative test before coming to work each shift.

Who is going to pay for those tests?

Lorini wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:15 am

Alefroth wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:54 pm Maybe in place of a vaccine requirement, medical facilities and businesses could require a negative test before coming to work each shift.

Who is going to pay for those tests?

The employee that refuses to get vaxx'd should.

disarm wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:42 pm

JCC wrote:My two best friends are doctors...Both of them told me yesterday that they expect 15-20% of the employees are going to be let go because they flat out refuse to get the vaccination. The most shocking thing to me is that their anecdotal data was that the majority of these employees were nurses (ie. have had extensive medical training). People who ABSOLUTLEY should know better won't even get the damn vaccine.

I think this is the situation playing out in medical offices and hospitals all over. I know that the resistance of supposedly well-educated staff to getting vaccinated is a big deal around me in CT. I was working with a surgeon a few days ago who said half of his office staff are afraid of losing their jobs because they refuse to take the vaccine, and most of those people are young nurses. The interesting part is that mandates are soon to be almost inescapable for any kind of medical personnel in the state. It's not just one hospital or office mandating vaccination, it's everywhere in the state. If someone refuses the vaccine, it's not like they'll be able to just find another job nearby. The resistance is mind-boggling, and most of it is based on politics; noone should be forcing them to inject a foreign substance into their bodies.

The governor of CT signed a pretty dramatic executive order on Friday that requires all workers in long-term care facility to be vaccinated, with their first dose received by 9/7. This means that not only are healthcare workers in hospitals and many offices required to get the vaccine, but also anyone working in a nursing home, assisted living, rehab facility, home for intellectually disabled, or similar business. Anyone not vaccinated by the deadline will subject their respective facility to a $20,000 civil penalty per day. I'm sure this will be protested soon enough, but this type of order has held up in court pretty well in other areas so far. Should be interesting to see what happens...

So we're the first medical facility in our area to mandate vaccines by the end of the month. I'm hoping that our CEO has been in contact with other area hospitals and knows that they are going to follow suit, or we're fixing to lose 20% of our workforce pronto. Add to that that we're already understaffed, and it's going to be ugly. On the flip side, I'm 100% behind this, and maybe vaxxed folks who are tired of working with Trumpaloos will make the switch to us, even though we don't pay as well, being nonprofit and all. The bad part is that my supervisor, who is fantastic, is an anti-vaxxer, and is hoping they will honor his religious exemption. I have such mixed feelings about that.

Our system sent out another letter about the vaccine mandate today, and they're not messing around. I've redacted identifying info, but here are a few excerpts...

Regarding vaccine exemptions...

"In the event you wish to seek a postponement, or deferment from the COVID-19 vaccine in the categories of medical and religious exemptions, a multidisciplinary (agnostic) review committee is set up by *snip* and it will consider requests in ONLY in those two categories. The committee will complete its review and inform you of their decision."

Clearly, being granted an exemption is not going to be a simple process.

What happens if you're not vaccinated?

"In the event *snip* is not notified by 4 p.m. on September 30, 2021 of your compliance with the COVID-19 Vaccine mandate with either proof of vaccination, or a *snip* granted medical or religious exemption, you will be automatically relinquishing your privileges based on the threshold criteria in the *snip* medical staff bylaws."

"Additionally, we wish to keep you informed that patients, in the interest of their own safety, may decline care from unvaccinated providers. In the event a patient declines care from an unvaccinated provider, *snip* will require you to take measures necessary to avoid future patient contact and transfer care to a provider colleague whose vaccination status is aligned with the patient’s wishes."

I'm pretty sure that other healthcare systems in the area are taking a similar approach, meaning that my state is about to become a very unfriendly place toward healthcare workers who refuse to get vaccinated. In my opinion, the vaccination deadline can't come soon enough.

Happy to hear it - I've said it before, it's long overdue and not something that should have ever been tolerated in patient care.

Alefroth wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:54 pm Maybe in place of a vaccine requirement, medical facilities and businesses could require a negative test before coming to work each shift.

This is the mandate in several places here. While Kaiser and a hospital owned by Trinity are requiring the shots Valley Children's Hospital here (a very large facility) is requiring twice weekly testing for those who are not vaccinated. I have seen others going that way as well.

Lorini wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:15 am

Alefroth wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:54 pm Maybe in place of a vaccine requirement, medical facilities and businesses could require a negative test before coming to work each shift.

Who is going to pay for those tests?

I'd say the burden of proof should be on the unvaccinated individual to prove they aren't infectious, but then I suppose they could claim discrimination because vaccinated employees don't have to prove they aren't infectious.

disarm wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:12 pm ]

I'm pretty sure that other healthcare systems in the area are taking a similar approach, meaning that my state is about to become a very unfriendly place toward healthcare workers who refuse to get vaccinated. In my opinion, the vaccination deadline can't come soon enough.

It's happening here too. The main Children's hospital just mandated and the larger systems are starting to as well. We had a leadership meeting put on the calendar for next Monday, pretty sure it's going to be a heads-up before a vaccine requirement announcement.

Full FDA approval is coming in Sept, if not sooner. That's why the deadline for complaince is usually Sept 30.

Since I forgot to roll over my 2020 badge for Gencon in Indianapolis by the end of July, I got my badge for it yesterday. So I'm going for a day just so I don't waste that money entirely. But the reason I mention that I'm going (beyond me continually whining about the fact I missed that deadline through my own stupidity) is that Gencon just released a statement announcing that they're requiring masks for the entire event.

Moderna to sign agreement to build mRNA production plant in Canada

U.S. drug maker Moderna will sign an agreement with the Canadian government today promising to build an mRNA production plant in Canada.

Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel will sign the memorandum of understanding with federal Innovation Minister François-Philippe Champagne in Montreal this morning. It is the second major deal Ottawa has made to get mRNA vaccines made in Canada in the last three months.

In May, Champagne said Ottawa would provide $199 million to Resilience Technologies in Mississauga, Ont., about half the cost of expanding its existing plant to make up to 640 million doses of mRNA vaccines every year.

A spokesperson for Champagne tells The Canadian Press Moderna and Ottawa are still negotiating specifics on how much the federal government will contribute to the new plant, along with where it will be built and when.

Both of these deals are in addition to the existing arrangement with Novavax. The more, the merrier.

3rd-dose study for kidney transplant patients began yesterday.

Hey, I know a couple of those!

Alefroth wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:51 am I'd say the burden of proof should be on the unvaccinated individual to prove they aren't infectious, but then I suppose they could claim discrimination because vaccinated employees don't have to prove they aren't infectious.

Justifiable discrimination with extreme bias. They ought not allowed to be in healthcare if they refuse to care for their own health.

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:21 pm 3rd-dose study for kidney transplant patients began yesterday.

Study?!? Who's got time for those?

Wed, August 11, 2021, 4:46 PM·1 min read
(Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is expected to authorize a third booster dose of COVID-19 vaccines by Pfizer Inc and Moderna Inc for people with weakened immune systems, NBC News reported on Wednesday.

The health agency will amend the emergency use authorizations for the two vaccines as soon as Thursday to allow immunocompromised people to get an additional dose, the report said, citing people familiar with the matter.

I picked a hell of an afternoon to be away from my PC.

Good news all around.

Sweet!

The Meal wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:12 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:21 pm 3rd-dose study for kidney transplant patients began yesterday.

Study?!? Who's got time for those?

Wed, August 11, 2021, 4:46 PM·1 min read
(Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is expected to authorize a third booster dose of COVID-19 vaccines by Pfizer Inc and Moderna Inc for people with weakened immune systems, NBC News reported on Wednesday.

The health agency will amend the emergency use authorizations for the two vaccines as soon as Thursday to allow immunocompromised people to get an additional dose, the report said, citing people familiar with the matter.

Approved

U.S. regulators say transplant recipients and others with severely weakened immune systems can get an extra dose of the Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines to better protect them as the delta variant continues to surge.

The late-night announcement Thursday by the Food and Drug Administration applies to several million Americans who are especially vulnerable because of organ transplants, certain cancers or other disorders. Several other countries, including France and Israel, have similar recommendations.

It's been a fun week.

Erin is a nanny and watches a little girl who is I think 4. Last Friday, the girl came down sick while Erin was working, nothing bad. Well over the weekend the mom and dad got sick, and by Monday or Tuesday morning we got a text saying her husband has Covid and it's assumed the daughter and mom has it too. Too make it even better, the older kid is in my daughter's class and sit next to each other. Kid was pulled and letters were sent. Erin self isolated and got tested the next day. Erin wasn't showing any symptoms, and notified everyone she had contact with since Friday. We normally don't go out much, but this last weekend it was her sister's birthday and went out to eat with her family, and the next day was my brother's 40th and we crammed ourselves in a 5th wheel camper on the beach. The day before both Erin and my daughter went to a friend's birthday party. That one I regret because it ended up being huge and we had no idea. It was all outdoors but after hearing how big it was, made me uncomfortable.

Lila and Ethan went to school as they haven't been showing any symptoms. Wednesday Lila came up with a cough and mild fever so she's been isolating in her room and had her test yesterday.

Then yesterday we get a note from Ethan's class stating that someone in his class tested positive. The guidelines didn't make us happy. They essentially say, if you get call from the district it means your child was in direct contact for 15 minute or more (cumulative) and then the child would have to isolate OR if you don't have any symptoms you can still come to class while continuing wearing your mask and be tested twice a week.

We struggled with keeping Ethan out today, but learned it wouldn't be excused. School knows Ethan well (his Make A Wish started at his school) and they have to follow district policy. We ended up sending him as we haven't been contacted.

I've been sleeping in Ethan's room in case Erin has it (no symptoms, and I've been playing Mr. Mom. And holy shit my feet are sore) Erin got her results early this morning saying she's negative. Now we are waiting for Lila.

Man all of this is so disruptive, and we're thankful that so far we were doing well, and reaally hoping Ethan dodges all of this and if he did get it he doesn't end up in the hospital.

So the other day one of my wife's patients tested positive for Covid. The patient and all of the staff had been vaccinated, but my wife has been less than diligent changing clothes and showering when she gets home. Son got the sniffles the other days and it's OMG HE'S INFECTED! It is so sporadic that it seems like he has the most mild cold in the history of colds, and quite frankly he's not any worse than my daughter and I.

Still, the reports that the Pfizer vaccine my wife had in January might be only 40% effective now is rather concerning. I really hope if they begin recommending boosters, they go after healthcare workers from the start, not wait until there's a crisis among that demographic.

The Meal wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:54 am

The Meal wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:12 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:21 pm 3rd-dose study for kidney transplant patients began yesterday.

Study?!? Who's got time for those?

Wed, August 11, 2021, 4:46 PM·1 min read
(Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is expected to authorize a third booster dose of COVID-19 vaccines by Pfizer Inc and Moderna Inc for people with weakened immune systems, NBC News reported on Wednesday.

The health agency will amend the emergency use authorizations for the two vaccines as soon as Thursday to allow immunocompromised people to get an additional dose, the report said, citing people familiar with the matter.

Approved

U.S. regulators say transplant recipients and others with severely weakened immune systems can get an extra dose of the Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines to better protect them as the delta variant continues to surge.

The late-night announcement Thursday by the Food and Drug Administration applies to several million Americans who are especially vulnerable because of organ transplants, certain cancers or other disorders. Several other countries, including France and Israel, have similar recommendations.

I have my appointment today for Jab #3!

Now my competitive instincts are saying that I need to get shots #3 and #4.

El Guapo wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:46 pm Now my competitive instincts are saying that I need to get shots #3 and #4.

Fuck everything, we're doing five shots.

Do I hear a 6th? going.....

He's more vaccine now than man . . . .

I’ll be getting my third jab today as well. Hopefully it doesn’t hit me as hard as the second shot, but I’m not optimistic

I work for a giant global company. For USA staff, general in-office has been pushed to Jan 2022, voluntary in office is still allowed.
All staff coming into office must be vaccinated, and all visitors must be vaccinated also.
Unvaccinated are required to work from home. For essential staff who believe they have an exception, please report to HR.
No unvaccinated visitors allowed in offices, no exceptions.

I think many organizations are bringing down the hammer on this 'freedom' crap. Glad to see it.

Welp third dose of the vaccine is kicking my butt just like the 2nd one did. If anything, my reaction might be a bit worse and might have come on faster than with the 2nd dose. The speed at which the reaction came on (fever after only 18 hours compared to 31 hours) makes me hope that this will end up being a one day thing rather than the two days it took to recover last time.

What inspired you to get a third a dose and who made it available? I figured for most of us that is a couple of months off or more.

CDC is now recommending a third dose for immunocompromised people. I’m on a medication that suppresses my immune system, so was eligible for the third dose. Both CVS and Walgreens are now offering third doses.

MHS wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:24 pmI have my appointment today for Jab #3!

Lorini wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:48 pm I think many organizations are bringing down the hammer on this 'freedom' crap. Glad to see it.

Same here. The "freedom" crowd at my office expressed their displeasure when they company said only people with special "vaccinated" badges could go around the office unmasked. We ended up going to back to all-masked a couple of weeks ago due to delta (i.e. due to that same "freedom crowd") but for a month or so we had to listen to them complaining about them being "singled out".

CDC is now recommending a third dose for immunocompromised people. I’m on a medication that suppresses my immune system, so was eligible for the third dose. Both CVS and Walgreens are now offering third doses.

Interesting. I am also on an immunosuppressant and that is not being suggested here except in cases of people being treated for cancer and for with organ transplants. At the same time, they are beginning to make plans for the aging.

for a month or so we had to listen to them complaining about them being "singled out".

Ditto here, though the complaints were muted and private. Loud but private. "I have antibodies"... so I'm like you went out and did what you wanted during a crisis, got sick, were fortunate enough to not be maimed, and you want me to trust your judgement on health in my workplace? You know you have coworkers whose family are suffering from "long COVID" have you consulted about with them about "having done your research."

Graphic from our County Emergency Management folks, regarding folks who have been hospitalized for Covid.

LordMortis wrote:

CDC is now recommending a third dose for immunocompromised people. I’m on a medication that suppresses my immune system, so was eligible for the third dose. Both CVS and Walgreens are now offering third doses.

Interesting. I am also on an immunosuppressant and that is not being suggested here except in cases of people being treated for cancer and for with organ transplants. At the same time, they are beginning to make plans for the aging.

Here is a list of the new CDC recommendations. The last point contains the various medications that qualify.

https://twitter.com/saadomer3/status/14 ... 04960?s=21