malchior wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:46 pm
Putin is starting to lash out internally. It is hard to say where it'd go if this is accurate but more indication that this isn't going to plan.
Would these be people that are blamed for failing to control the public opinion / PR part of it all?
nvm
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:56 pm
by Kurth
malchior wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:46 pm
Putin is starting to lash out internally. It is hard to say where it'd go if this is accurate but more indication that this isn't going to plan.
At a dinner last night, I was speaking to someone who is connected and informed about what's going on in Ukraine right now, and he told me there is no question that sources in the FSB have been feeding the Ukranians intel about Russian troop movements, strategy and specific attempts to take out Zelensky. I've seen this reported elsewhere, but I was always a little skeptical.
If Putin is now lashing out at the FSB, that would certainly tend to lend that some credibility.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:01 pm
by Unagi
Ahhh, in the Ukraine. I missed that part.
very interesting indeed.
Looks like blood is thicker than toxic tea?
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:02 pm
by El Guapo
Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:56 pm
If Putin is now lashing out at the FSB, that would certainly tend to lend that some credibility.
Some, although rumor + failures in Ukraine may be sufficient evidence for Putin to do something like this even if it's not ultimately well founded.
malchior wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:46 pm
Putin is starting to lash out internally. It is hard to say where it'd go if this is accurate but more indication that this isn't going to plan.
At a dinner last night, I was speaking to someone who is connected and informed about what's going on in Ukraine right now, and he told me there is no question that sources in the FSB have been feeding the Ukranians intel about Russian troop movements, strategy and specific attempts to take out Zelensky. I've seen this reported elsewhere, but I was always a little skeptical.
If Putin is now lashing out at the FSB, that would certainly tend to lend that some credibility.
FWIW I found that reporting to be more likely than not - mostly because we're seeing broad indications that the US had developed deep insight into Russian planning which meant it was leaky to begin with. There seem to be no end to embarrassing material coming out which is just ... weird. We have the FSB leak letter for example complaining bitterly about leadership. It isn't hard to see that the mid-tier rubber meets road officials and analysts might be fed up or warring with the top-tier in these organizations for following Putin into self-destruction. There is much indicating that the rot has caught up to them.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:07 pm
by Daehawk
Red October -
Dr. Jeffrey Pelt:
Andrei... you've lost another one?
I'm trying not to get too emboldened by the (great) news of Russian commanders/generals being taken out... as I suspect it will be countered by bad news from our side as the days grow on and they start to actually knock right on the door of Kyiv.
But, keep the good news coming.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:15 pm
by LordMortis
I'm none to bright on military stuff but is it ever a good idea to go into an enemy controlled zone in a tank column? Aside from having a nice road to drive on, what's the reason to do this? Next man up seems like a worst way possible to advance tanks.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:27 pm
by YellowKing
LordMortis wrote:I'm none to bright on military stuff but is it ever a good idea to go into an enemy controlled zone in a tank column? Aside from having a nice road to drive on, what's the reason to do this? Next man up seems like a worst way possible to advance tanks.
I watched a retired general's response to this "strategy" and he said the only way you can do it is with strong infantry support. Of which they apparently had none. Fish in a barrel.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:31 pm
by Isgrimnur
Infantry support just adds casualties if you take artillery fire.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:45 pm
by dbt1949
Infantry support is for keeping enemy infantry and their ATM away from your vehicles. It of course does nothing for artillery strikes.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:50 pm
by Blackhawk
Which is why you neutralize anti-air first, then artillery, and then you move your ground forces forward.
The rock/paper/scissors against tanks are infantry and close quarters. You want your tanks in the open where they can see and maneuver, not trapped on a road, not driving through a city. And you use them as part of a combined force, not as a standalone force.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:06 pm
by ImLawBoy
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:50 pm
Which is why you neutralize anti-air first, then artillery, and then you move your ground forces forward.
The rock/paper/scissors against tanks are infantry and close quarters. You want your tanks in the open where they can see and maneuver, not trapped on a road, not driving through a city. And you use them as part of a combined force, not as a standalone force.
Actually, I saw a documentary that showed that Russian tanks perform quite well driving through city streets.
Kyiv has accused Russia of firing at a settlement in Belarus near the border with Ukraine in a “false flag” attempt to draw Minsk into joining Moscow’s unprovoked invasion of its neighbor.
Ukraine’s Air Command said in a statement on March 11 that border authorities received information detailing how Russian aircraft took off from an airfield in Belarus, crossed into Ukrainian airspace, and then fired back across at the Belarusian village of Kopani.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:14 pm
by LawBeefaroni
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:15 pm
by Max Peck
I've seen a report that Russian pilots are relying on civilian GPS receivers for navigation. Maybe they just got lost and hit the wrong target...
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:35 pm
by RunningMn9
Octavious wrote:I have seen more than once this week people pointing out how cheap gas was in 2020. Holy hell nobody was driving. Another pointing out how cheap it was before Obama got into office. THE ENTIRE COUNTRY COLLAPSED. I really just need to get off social media. It's disgusting. And get a new job. Everyone is a Trump supporter. So frustrating.
The summer of 2008 (before Obama got elected) was the highest gas prices we’ve ever paid, with a national average around $5.30 in today’s dollars.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:48 pm
by Daehawk
None of those Ruskies have played Command & Conquer ...I can tell.
Octavious wrote:I have seen more than once this week people pointing out how cheap gas was in 2020. Holy hell nobody was driving. Another pointing out how cheap it was before Obama got into office. THE ENTIRE COUNTRY COLLAPSED. I really just need to get off social media. It's disgusting. And get a new job. Everyone is a Trump supporter. So frustrating.
The summer of 2008 (before Obama got elected) was the highest gas prices we’ve ever paid, with a national average around $5.30 in today’s dollars.
It's a few days old, but the Quartz poll suggests most Americans (71%) are willing to pay higher gas prices (for now).
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:59 pm
by Carpet_pissr
Now that the Saudis opened up the faucet a bit, I am already noticing the prices moving back down. Could be completely anecdotal/local only/coincidental of course.
Octavious wrote:I have seen more than once this week people pointing out how cheap gas was in 2020. Holy hell nobody was driving. Another pointing out how cheap it was before Obama got into office. THE ENTIRE COUNTRY COLLAPSED. I really just need to get off social media. It's disgusting. And get a new job. Everyone is a Trump supporter. So frustrating.
The summer of 2008 (before Obama got elected) was the highest gas prices we’ve ever paid, with a national average around $5.30 in today’s dollars.
It's a few days old, but the Quartz poll suggests most Americans (71%) are willing to pay higher gas prices (for now).
Absolutely, but it doesn't stop at gas. Higher gas means more expensive logistics means fuel to the inflation fire. But I can be unhappy about it and accept it's for a cause. Or it better be. If it's to support war for the sake of war and getting people killed, mamed, and displaced then I'd have a problem. I support Ukraine but I still remember the US in Iraq all too well.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:04 pm
by raydude
LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:15 pm
I'm none to bright on military stuff but is it ever a good idea to go into an enemy controlled zone in a tank column? Aside from having a nice road to drive on, what's the reason to do this? Next man up seems like a worst way possible to advance tanks.
It can be done. It requires speed, firepower, good equipment, and a sufficiently trained force that can cover their sectors and knows how to react to problems. Good optics, like thermal vision, also helps. And it doesn't hurt to have a tank that can shrug off RPGs. See the Thunder Run into Baghdad.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:07 pm
by LordMortis
In one of the boldest gambles in modern military history
In one of the boldest gambles in modern military history
Shows what I know, which isn't much.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:57 pm
by Defiant
“Now about Ukraine. I agree with Karen. We had prior experiences of bringing in our troops, destroying the military infrastructure and leaving. I think that our army fulfilled their task of demilitarization of the country by destroying most of their military installations... To restore their military they will need at least 10 years... Let Ukrainians do this denazification on their own. We can’t do it for them... As for their neutrality, yes, we should squeeze it out of them, and that’s it. We don’t need to stay there longer than necessary... Do we need to get into another Afghanistan, but even worse? There are more people and they’re more advanced in their handling of weapons. We don’t need that. Enough already... As for the sanctions, the world has never seen such massive sanctions".
If doing enough damage to a military that it takes a decade to restore is a victory in demilitarization, maybe you could even argue they demilitarized two countries. So that's *two* victories they've won.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:59 pm
by Isgrimnur
As for the sanctions, the world has never seen such massive sanctions
Did Trump write that?
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 9:57 pm
by hepcat
If true, that’s pretty amazing. I didn’t think we’d ever see Putin’s grip lessen even that much.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:12 pm
by Unagi
I apologize if this has been shared already.
edit:: Icebear, you do not want to watch this.
In an interview for the upcoming FRONTLINE documentary “Putin’s Road to War,” journalist Julia Ioffe discusses Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine — and why she believes the Russian leader is now “more dangerous than he’s ever been at any point in the last 22 years.
Great part about Putin's 'on-air' dress-down of his top FSB agent, just in the first 30 seconds...
the ending is absolutely chilling.
This will be part of the documentary coming out on, I think, the 18th.
For decades now, Vladimir Putin has slowly, carefully, and stealthily curated online and offline networks of influence. These efforts have borne lucrative fruit, helping Russia become far more influential than a country so corrupt and institutionally fragile had any right to be. The Kremlin and its proxies had economic holdings across Europe and Africa that would shame some of the smaller 18th-century empires. It had a vast network of useful idiots that it helped get elected and could count on for support, and it controlled much of the day-to-day narrative in multiple countries through online disinformation. And many people had no idea.
While a few big events like the US’s 2016 election and the UK’s Brexit helped bring this meddling to light, many remained unaware or unwilling to accept that Putin’s disinformation machine was influencing them on a wide range of issues. Small groups of determined activists tried to convince the world that the Kremlin had infiltrated and manipulated the economies, politics, and psychology of much of the globe; these warnings were mostly met with silence or even ridicule.
All that changed the moment Russian boots touched Ukrainian soil. Almost overnight, the Western world became overwhelmingly aware of the Kremlin’s activities in these fields, shattering the illusions that allowed Putin’s alternative, Kremlin-controlled information ecosystem to exist outside its borders. As a result, the sophisticated disinformation machinery Putin spent decades cultivating collapsed within days.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:34 am
by Carpet_pissr
Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:12 pm
I apologize if this has been shared already.
edit:: Icebear, you do not want to watch this.
In an interview for the upcoming FRONTLINE documentary “Putin’s Road to War,” journalist Julia Ioffe discusses Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine — and why she believes the Russian leader is now “more dangerous than he’s ever been at any point in the last 22 years.
Great part about Putin's 'on-air' dress-down of his top FSB agent, just in the first 30 seconds...
the ending is absolutely chilling.
This will be part of the documentary coming out on, I think, the 18th.
Just watched that whole thing. Both fascinating and terrifying.
I’m almost ashamed to have the thought ‘I wonder if the world would be cheering on Ukraine so much if they realized how potentially dangerous a cornered Putin is to THEIR lives’
Jesus, man. If she’s right, we’re as close to the brink as we’ve ever been.
I guess the only non-horrific resolution is that Ukraine visibly falls, or Putin is killed.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:39 am
by Daehawk
Russian soldiers retreat from stiff Ukrainian resistance.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:25 pm
by IceBear
Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:12 pm
I apologize if this has been shared already.
edit:: Icebear, you do not want to watch this.
In an interview for the upcoming FRONTLINE documentary “Putin’s Road to War,” journalist Julia Ioffe discusses Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine — and why she believes the Russian leader is now “more dangerous than he’s ever been at any point in the last 22 years.
Great part about Putin's 'on-air' dress-down of his top FSB agent, just in the first 30 seconds...
the ending is absolutely chilling.
This will be part of the documentary coming out on, I think, the 18th.
Pretty sure I was reading articles that essentially said the same stuff...which is why I am freaking out
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:49 pm
by Jaymann
Daehawk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:39 am
Russian soldiers retreat from stiff Ukrainian resistance.
What that drives home for me is they share the same language and culture. It would be like storming your grandparents' house.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:58 pm
by hepcat
Actually, Ukrainians have their own language.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:04 pm
by Jaymann
hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:58 pm
Actually, Ukrainians have their own language.
True, but the USSR tried to force Russian down their throats. This policy was not reversed until 1991, so I imagine Grandma and Grandpa can speka de Rusky.
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:21 pm
by xwraith
Re: Ukraine
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:06 pm
by xwraith
Fallout was supposed to be a gritty RPG, not a 2022 simulator.
