Shootings

[malchior]

Ugh. Hope they are well. Apparently they have been searching the campus for the shooter for over an hour now.

[LordMortis]

That's my alma mater. One of my friends has a kid enrolled there.

I have a niece going there right now.

\https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/michig ... index.html

[malchior]

The collective grief, heartbreak & horror unfolding at Michigan State tonight is unfathomable. Holding the entire MSU community in my heart. This repetitive terror cannot continue. We must come together and do whatever it takes to protect our kids & communities from gun violence.

[Kraken]

Realistically, the body count is too low for this one to be more than a national news footnote. You need at least four dead to be a mass shooting and we're averaging almost two of those a week.

[Blackhawk]

Three dead, five wounded, and the shooter killed himself.

Another day in the life of the USA.

[LordMortis]

Realistically, the body count is too low for this one to be more than a national news footnote. You need at least four dead to be a mass shooting and we're averaging almost two of those a week.

Only for some of those kids, that isn't their first school shooting.

[ImLawBoy]

Realistically, the body count is too low for this one to be more than a national news footnote. You need at least four dead to be a mass shooting and we're averaging almost two of those a week.

It led local news in Chicago last night, including cutting away to a live briefing. It's only about 3.5 hours from Chicago, and being a Big 10 school it has a lot of ties to the area (including alumni).

[stessier]

Made the local news here in South Carolina as well.

[Isgrimnur]

Freep

After more than a year of grieving the loss of her high school classmates, a former Oxford High School student was retraumatized Monday evening at Michigan State University, when gun violence would once again shatter her sense of security.

The former Oxford student is now a freshman at MSU and was across the street from the Union when gunfire erupted, according to her mother. She saw people running out of the Union and called her mom.

[LawBeefaroni]

Realistically, the body count is too low for this one to be more than a national news footnote. You need at least four dead to be a mass shooting and we're averaging almost two of those a week.

It led local news in Chicago last night, including cutting away to a live briefing. It's only about 3.5 hours from Chicago, and being a Big 10 school it has a lot of ties to the area (including alumni).

And that in a city that had 3 killed and 6 wounded on Sunday.


It opped up on my alerts last night because there were like 280K listeners on Scanner Radio. Have never seen that high a number before.

[malchior]

It opped up on my alerts last night because there were like 280K listeners on Scanner Radio. Have never seen that high a number before.

I was listening to it at points but it was interesting as a non-physical security professional to hear LEO incident coordination. It is pretty much the same as cybersecurity incident coordination at a very high level.

[naednek]

Freep

After more than a year of grieving the loss of her high school classmates, a former Oxford High School student was retraumatized Monday evening at Michigan State University, when gun violence would once again shatter her sense of security.

The former Oxford student is now a freshman at MSU and was across the street from the Union when gunfire erupted, according to her mother. She saw people running out of the Union and called her mom.

I read a student from Sandy Hook is now at MU and got relive it all again.

[malchior]

Freep

After more than a year of grieving the loss of her high school classmates, a former Oxford High School student was retraumatized Monday evening at Michigan State University, when gun violence would once again shatter her sense of security.

The former Oxford student is now a freshman at MSU and was across the street from the Union when gunfire erupted, according to her mother. She saw people running out of the Union and called her mom.

I read a student from Sandy Hook is now at MU and got relive it all again.

She posted a video describing her experience. Don't have the link handy but she is a Junior or Senior and described it as the 2nd time it has happened to her in 10 years.

[LawBeefaroni]

Freep

After more than a year of grieving the loss of her high school classmates, a former Oxford High School student was retraumatized Monday evening at Michigan State University, when gun violence would once again shatter her sense of security.

The former Oxford student is now a freshman at MSU and was across the street from the Union when gunfire erupted, according to her mother. She saw people running out of the Union and called her mom.

I read a student from Sandy Hook is now at MU and got relive it all again.

MSU, not MU. Not hugely important but thought I'd make a note.

[Isgrimnur]

Detroit News

MSU shooter ... pleaded guilty to gun charge in 2019
...
[N]eighbors described as a "hell-raiser" who practiced target shooting out his back door, has a recent history with firearms. And his father ... said he had previously encouraged his son to get rid of his guns.

[He] was arrested in Lansing and charged in June 2019 with carrying a concealed pistol without a concealed carry permit, according to Ingham County court records obtained Tuesday by The Detroit News. The initial charge was a felony that carried a potential penalty of five years in prison, according to the records.
...
In October 2019, Ingham County prosecutors added a second charge ...: possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, a misdemeanor.

That same month, October 2019, [he] agreed to plead guilty to the lesser misdemeanor charge, and prosecutors dismissed the felony charge.
...
[He] was sentenced in November 2019 to 12 months probation. In October 2020, six additional months were added to his probation, according to court records.

[Z-Corn]

https://twitter.com/RanjeevPuri/status/ ... 3776972800

[Smoove_B]

I saw that. It's hard to disagree and at this point in the discussion it needs to be said.

[LawBeefaroni]

Detroit News

MSU shooter ... pleaded guilty to gun charge in 2019
...
[N]eighbors described as a "hell-raiser" who practiced target shooting out his back door, has a recent history with firearms. And his father ... said he had previously encouraged his son to get rid of his guns.

[He] was arrested in Lansing and charged in June 2019 with carrying a concealed pistol without a concealed carry permit, according to Ingham County court records obtained Tuesday by The Detroit News. The initial charge was a felony that carried a potential penalty of five years in prison, according to the records.
...
In October 2019, Ingham County prosecutors added a second charge ...: possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, a misdemeanor.

That same month, October 2019, [he] agreed to plead guilty to the lesser misdemeanor charge, and prosecutors dismissed the felony charge.
...
[He] was sentenced in November 2019 to 12 months probation. In October 2020, six additional months were added to his probation, according to court records.

“What would have stopped this is more difficulty accessing guns,” Fink added. “The felony isn’t going to stop a madman.”

[LordMortis]

I read the comments, ray. The Libertarian Party of Michigan response:

Punishing people who did not commit any crime for the actions of others is deeply unjust and won’t save lives.
If you cared about protecting students, introduce legislation to end gun free zones in schools. Give students the freedom to defend themselves against attackers

To think I still think of myself as having libertarian leanings. I suppose I really need to shed the myth.

Edit that is in the tweet, not the DetNews.

[Smoove_B]

The answer is always more guns. Always.

[Isgrimnur]

WGRZ

The man who admitted to killing 10 Black people in a Buffalo grocery store last year will spend the rest of his life in prison.

[He] was sentenced in Erie County Court in front of Judge Susan Eagan to life in prison without parole for the domestic terrorism charge and all 10 first degree murder charges. He had pleaded guilty to the state charges in late November.
...
He said: "I am very sorry for all the pain I forced the victims and their families suffered through. I am very sorry for stealing the lives of your loved ones. I cannot express how much I regret on the decisions I made leading up to my actions on May 14th. I did a terrible thing that day. I shot and killed people because they were Black. Looking back now I can't believe I actually did it. I believed what I read on line and acted out of hate."

[Jaymann]

I'm sure he will be forgiven his transgressions by the brothers in prison.

[Pyperkub]

El Paso last night:

Two people are in custody after a shooting at Cielo Vista Mall killed one person and left three others injured.

Interim police Chief Peter Pacillas said the gunman was taken down quickly by an off-duty police officer who was working security at a store in the mall. He said the officer did not fire his weapon. The names and ages of the suspects were not released. A motive also was not released....

...Gomez said one person died in the shooting and three others were injured. The injured were transported to area hospitals.

[Pyperkub]

Detroit News

MSU shooter ... pleaded guilty to gun charge in 2019
...
[N]eighbors described as a "hell-raiser" who practiced target shooting out his back door, has a recent history with firearms. And his father ... said he had previously encouraged his son to get rid of his guns.

[He] was arrested in Lansing and charged in June 2019 with carrying a concealed pistol without a concealed carry permit, according to Ingham County court records obtained Tuesday by The Detroit News. The initial charge was a felony that carried a potential penalty of five years in prison, according to the records.
...
In October 2019, Ingham County prosecutors added a second charge ...: possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, a misdemeanor.

That same month, October 2019, [he] agreed to plead guilty to the lesser misdemeanor charge, and prosecutors dismissed the felony charge.
...
[He] was sentenced in November 2019 to 12 months probation. In October 2020, six additional months were added to his probation, according to court records.

“What would have stopped this is more difficulty accessing guns,” Fink added. “The felony isn’t going to stop a madman.”

Bill Harris posted about Michigan St, this is chilling:

One of my closest friends has a neighbor whose son goes to Michigan St.

Walking across campus on Monday, he had his way blocked by someone. The man didn't say anything to him, just squared him up and stood in his way. An older man, glaring.

After a few seconds, he cautiously stepped around the man and continued on his way.

He's sure this was the shooter, based on photos he's seen.

Just another chilling detail in a week filled with them.

There but for the gace of god...

Thanks NRA.

[Scoop20906]

Sorry for the question but do we really need the 2nd amendment? I’m not trying to be glib but what is it protecting us from? Or maybe I should ask how could it be updated to protect from gun violence?

[Alefroth]

By requiring everyone to carry a gun.

[Pyperkub]

By requiring everyone to care a gun.

Happiness is a warm gun?

Stolen from mastodon:

In America, they say the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

But that just sounds like someone trying to sell two guns.

[Scoop20906]

Sorry for the question but do we really need the 2nd amendment? I’m not trying to be glib but what is it protecting us from? Or maybe I should ask how could it be updated to protect from gun violence?

I know the question is naive and I understand the whole government tyranny thing but seeing how the amendment is used to allow serious threats to people (especially people they know) to still buy, or and brandish guns I feel like the 2nd amendment is holding us back more than protecting us.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This sentence is in need of an update. In order for society to be safe from dangerous individuals, some people should not be allowed to keep and bear arms. I realize there are laws on the books already but the seem to be easy to circumvent. I'm still learning about all this stuff but I feel I need to know but these shootings aren't going away.

[LawBeefaroni]

We have a lot of big problems. Guns in the hands of anyone who puts forth a minor effort to get them. Social media manipulation and fomentation. And dehumanization everywhere, to the point where having a bad day justifies random murder in a lot of peoples' [unwell] minds.



I don't think I talked about it here, because it was still an active case but a few months ago we had an incident in the neighborhood. There is a local bar/restaurant that hosted watch parties for a certain NFL team. They've been doing it for years and no issues (I've been going to this place in its various iterations for over 25 years). The regular group that shows up was a good crowd. Well, a few months ago a new foursome showed up and were welcomed. A few hours in, a waitress noticed that they brought their own bottle of booze and asked told them they couldn't have it in there. They had been buying drinks and had a decent tab so she just told them to take it outside and they could stay. Well, they objected and a woman in the group threw a drink at the server and they were asked to leave.

They left without further incident but the woman in the group started yelling at her boyfriend that she was being disrespected, etc. So the boyfriend walked across the street to a car, got a gun, and walked back to the bar. He stood outside trying to chamber a round but was too drunk and kept ejecting cartridges onto the sidewalk. A regular patron saw this and went outside to keep tabs on this guy (the regular is a bouncer at another bar) while someone else called the police. He could tell the guy was wasted and just took up a spot next to him watching him outside the door. Well, the guy tried to fire at the ground few times, kept working the slide, and couldn't get a shot off. Finally he gave up and pistol whipped the regular across the side of the face. Fortunately the regular was ready (and could apparently take a punch) and immediately took him to the ground. The gun went flying and the would-be shooter got beat up. While this was happening, the woman piled on and it took 4 other patrons/staff to pull her off. While that was happening, someone else, we think a third person from the group, grabbed the gun and ran away. Neither he nor the gun were found. Police arrived in a few minutes after the takedown, since they had been called while the guy was standing outside with the gun. Had there actually been a shooting, of course, they would have arrived too late.

The states attorney refused to file any felony charges, including gun charges, because the gun was not recovered and, in their words, "It could have been a bb gun", despite several cartridges recovered on the scene and witnesses stating that they came from the guy's gun.

But we had video of the entire incident from the moment he left to go get his gun (which is why I can recount in detail). Upon viewing, they couldn't get out of charging the guy with 3 felonies, including aggravated assault. However, still no gun charges because the gun was not recovered. It was clearly visible in his hand, then on the ground when he dropped it. The live cartridges that were ejected clearly on video were recovered. But since his buddy took the gun and ran, no gun charges. (interestingly, a few years (?) ago we had a county judge clearly drop his gun on video, after he illegally took it past a checkpoint but no charges because "it could have been a bb gun.")

Had this guy not been quite so drunk or had he been able to work a malfunction properly, I'm pretty sure it would have been a mass shooting. The video is straight up anatomy of a mass shooting until the guy induces a malfunction. Because this guy and/or his girlfriend thought that shooting people is the right way to fix getting kicked out of a bar.

And this wasn't in clubland at 2am. It was on a crowded corner at 6pm on an unseasonably warm Sunday. Hell, I was next door a few hours before. A ton of families walking by (the video is crazy, families walking by this guy trying to work his gun, looking at him, and leisurely continuing on their way - absolute normalcy bias). But history will just record that this guy punched another guy outside a bar. And when he gets out after time served and the 50% mandatory reduction in a year or two, he'll be able to get another illegal handgun for $400 cash. The bar cancelled all team watch gatherings and hired an armed guard. This is where we are now.

I really don't see how we go back. It's not going to be solved legislatively, we can't enforce existing laws, forget about new, more restrictive ones. It feels like the only way out is a technology fix.

[Blackhawk]

You've mentioned the story before.

There are probably a thousand ways to update the 2nd, but it's mostly just a thought exercise. Unless one party has a supermajority trifecta plus the Supreme Court, it's untouchable. And even then we'd be lucky not to start a civil war afterwards when 2/3 of the police departments in the country refused to enforce it while the armed masses got on their weekend warrior gear.

[Alefroth]

By requiring everyone to care a gun.

Happiness is a warm gun?

[LawBeefaroni]

You've mentioned the story before.

I've saved it to draft so many times, wasn't sure.

There are probably a thousand ways to update the 2nd, but it's mostly just a thought exercise. Unless one party has a supermajority trifecta plus the Supreme Court, it's untouchable. And even then we'd be lucky not to start a civil war afterwards when 2/3 of the police departments in the country refused to enforce it while the armed masses got on their weekend warrior gear.

It's never going to happen without some kind of extreme black swan event and a massive overhaul in our government. There are more guns in America than Americans and the life expectancy of the average American gun is probably longer than that of the average American. Not sure how that cat gets stuffed back in the bag.

Ammo runs out though...

[Pyperkub]

Mississippi

https://news.yahoo.com/tate-county-ms-s ... Z3NAvOP0Rx

Six dead thus far.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

[Scoop20906]

It’s my first time reading that story so thanks for sharing. I realize these things won’t be changed in my lifetime but I think the seeds of change are being planted after reading stories like that. That incident was bad for that business and costly. In my situation I never go to bars or restaurants anymore except take out and I’m planning on getting a shotgun for home defense.

[Kraken]

Sorry for the question but do we really need the 2nd amendment? I’m not trying to be glib but what is it protecting us from? Or maybe I should ask how could it be updated to protect from gun violence?

I know the question is naive and I understand the whole government tyranny thing but seeing how the amendment is used to allow serious threats to people (especially people they know) to still buy, or and brandish guns I feel like the 2nd amendment is holding us back more than protecting us.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This sentence is in need of an update. In order for society to be safe from dangerous individuals, some people should not be allowed to keep and bear arms. I realize there are laws on the books already but the seem to be easy to circumvent. I'm still learning about all this stuff but I feel I need to know but these shootings aren't going away.

The real problem is SCOTUS's interpretation of that unclear wording. There was no individual right to bear arms until 2008. "For most of the last century, the interpretation of the Second Amendment has been that the right to bear arms is a collective right, such as with military service; Thursday's ruling says gun ownership is also an individual right." With a 5-4 vote, they overturned that precedent and set the stage for an explosion in gun violence. Then, just last year, they broadened that so-called right and hobbled gun control. "In the ruling’s most far-reaching language, Thomas said concern for public safety isn’t enough to justify new gun controls."

Absent any chance to repeal the 2A, the only hope for reform is to recapture the SCOTUS and reverse those two radically bad decisions.

[Smoove_B]

It's never going to happen without some kind of extreme black swan event and a massive overhaul in our government.

If it didn't happen after Sandy Hook, I don't want to be around to see what finally changes the attitudes towards guns and gun ownership here in America.

[Unagi]

It's never going to happen without some kind of extreme black swan event and a massive overhaul in our government.

If it didn't happen after Sandy Hook, I don't want to be around to see what finally changes the attitudes towards guns and gun ownership here in America.

Even if it was just a bus with all the SC justices going off a cliff?

[Blackhawk]

It's never going to happen without some kind of extreme black swan event and a massive overhaul in our government.

If it didn't happen after Sandy Hook, I don't want to be around to see what finally changes the attitudes towards guns and gun ownership here in America.

I'd imagine something like an extremist militia taking 'mass shooting' to a new level and giving us a domestic 9-11.

And even that might not do it.

[LordMortis]

It's never going to happen without some kind of extreme black swan event and a massive overhaul in our government.

If it didn't happen after Sandy Hook, I don't want to be around to see what finally changes the attitudes towards guns and gun ownership here in America.

Even if it was just a bus with all the SC justices going off a cliff?

IIRC SC Justices get protection. The answer is not for them to just carry guns but to surround them with people paid by the taxpayer to spend time carrying guns solely focused on making sure the Justices are safe. If you don't want to carry a gun you just need to become a SC Justice. Duh!

[LawBeefaroni]

It's never going to happen without some kind of extreme black swan event and a massive overhaul in our government.

If it didn't happen after Sandy Hook, I don't want to be around to see what finally changes the attitudes towards guns and gun ownership here in America.

Even if it was just a bus with all the SC justices going off a cliff?

IIRC SC Justices get protection. The answer is not for them to just carry guns but to surround them with people paid by the taxpayer to spend time carrying guns solely focused on making sure the Justices are safe. If you don't want to carry a gun you just need to become a SC Justice. Duh!

Or a senator or a president or a mayor or SBF...