The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:24 am

So what are the chances that his team wanted it to go down just like this? It seems to me that a generic rally would be less valuable in terms of getting out the base than some "evidence" that the "other side" is trying to shut him down. I'm guilty of it. I called it a Heckler's Veto, which, if the story I'm telling is right, is exactly what Trump wanted me to believe.

Edit:Clarity

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:49 pm

PLW wrote:So what are the chances that his team wanted it to go down just like this? It seems to me that a generic rally would be less valuable in terms of getting out the base than some "evidence" that the "other side" is trying to shut him down. I'm guilty of it. I called it a Heckler's Veto, which (according to this story) is exactly what Trump wanted me to believe.

Your link has been eaten.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:49 pm

Another "incident" (real or manufactured) or two like this would justify Trump in hiring a real goon squad. I'm sure he already has goons, but they'd be more effective with some snappy uniforms.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:09 pm

Kraken wrote:Another "incident" (real or manufactured) or two like this would justify Trump in hiring a real goon squad. I'm sure he already has goons, but they'd be more effective with some snappy uniforms.

Does Hugo Boss make a track suit?

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:09 pm

msduncan wrote: WE SHOULD NOT BE GOING AND PROTESTING OTHER PEOPLE'S POLITICAL RALLIES

Why do you hate the 1st Amendment?

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:13 pm

msteelers wrote:
msduncan wrote: WE SHOULD NOT BE GOING AND PROTESTING OTHER PEOPLE'S POLITICAL RALLIES
Why do you hate the 1st Amendment?

I'm fine with Trump kicking people out, and he should be able to have his rallies in a private venue without them being disrupted. That's about private property rights. I'm also fine with lots of protesters coming and protesting in the public spaces around the venues without being driven away by police. That's the First Amendment.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:37 pm

I hope you will feel the same when hordes of Trump supporting thugs begin showing up for the rallies of the others. Protests can become violent riots if people stop respecting each other's rights to assemble.

The difference will be that based on Rally turnouts so far the Trump supporters would vastly outnumber whoevers party they start crashing.

All of the candidates should give every effort to discourage their supporters from crashing the rallies of others. If they don't then they shouldn't complain about the inevitable violence that results.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:56 pm

Bullshit.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:00 pm

Someone rushes the stage at Trump rally, gets taken out by Secret Service. This sort of behavior is garbage. I hope all the other candidates quickly and explicitly call for their supporters to stop doing shit like this.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:05 pm

Rip wrote:I hope you will feel the same when hordes of Trump supporting thugs begin showing up for the rallies of the others. Protests can become violent riots if people stop respecting each other's rights to assemble.

The difference will be that based on Rally turnouts so far the Trump supporters would vastly outnumber whoevers party they start crashing.

All of the candidates should give every effort to discourage their supporters from crashing the rallies of others. If they don't then they shouldn't complain about the inevitable violence that results.

Perhaps I missed it but I've seen no thuggery on the part of the demonstrors at Trump events. The only thugs seem to be his supporters.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:11 pm

tgb wrote:
Rip wrote:I hope you will feel the same when hordes of Trump supporting thugs begin showing up for the rallies of the others. Protests can become violent riots if people stop respecting each other's rights to assemble.

The difference will be that based on Rally turnouts so far the Trump supporters would vastly outnumber whoevers party they start crashing.

All of the candidates should give every effort to discourage their supporters from crashing the rallies of others. If they don't then they shouldn't complain about the inevitable violence that results.
Perhaps I missed it but I've seen no thuggery on the part of the demonstrors at Trump events. The only thugs seem to be his supporters.

The only thing I see in this video at least is anti-Trump supporters fighting with police.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vide ... haos-video

This one is even better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GepGO6HqL3o

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:26 pm

And your answer for previous Trump events?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:49 pm

I don't agree with the actions of some of the protesters, especially when it's designed to stop him speaking, like the one that rushed the stage.

But I found this funny:

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:05 pm

Rip wrote:I hope you will feel the same when hordes of Trump supporting thugs begin showing up for the rallies of the others. Protests can become violent riots if people stop respecting each other's rights to assemble.

The difference will be that based on Rally turnouts so far the Trump supporters would vastly outnumber whoevers party they start crashing.

All of the candidates should give every effort to discourage their supporters from crashing the rallies of others. If they don't then they shouldn't complain about the inevitable violence that results.

Protesting isn't inherently violent. You should absolutely be able to protest, especially a political rally. But once you resort to violence you've gone from protesting to intimidating, and that is uncalled for.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Trump WASN'T at a private venue! It was a publicly funded STATE University where the students feel like they're getting screwed by the State GOP. I think it's also the Socialist central of area colleges. Trump basically invited the protestors. He wanted to manufacture outrage.

Cruz didn't have any problems at either of his two events. Rubio isn't competing in Illinois except through SuperPACs.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Holman wrote:
Kraken wrote:Another "incident" (real or manufactured) or two like this would justify Trump in hiring a real goon squad. I'm sure he already has goons, but they'd be more effective with some snappy uniforms.
Does Hugo Boss make a track suit?

Staying true to the theme, Trump blames the communists for the violence.

U.S. Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump on Saturday blamed supporters of Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders for protests that shut down his Chicago rally, calling the U.S. senator from Vermont "our communist friend". Trump's Republican rivals, meanwhile, hurled scorn at the New York billionaire, saying he helped create the increasingly tense atmosphere that is now sweeping the race for the White House with his fiery rhetoric.

Trump, who has rallies in Ohio and Missouri on Saturday, canceled the Chicago event on Friday after it turned chaotic, with scuffles breaking out between protesters and backers of the real estate magnate. The clashes follow a slew of recent incidents of violence at Trump rallies, in which protesters and journalists have been punched, tackled and hustled out of venues, raising concerns about degrading security leading into the Nov. 8 election.

"All of a sudden a planned attack just came out of nowhere," Trump said at a rally in Dayton, Ohio, Saturday morning, calling the protest leaders "professional people". He said his own fans "were taunted, they were harassed by these other people, these other people by the way, some represented Bernie, our communist friend."

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:27 pm

Zarathud wrote:Trump WASN'T at a private venue! It was a publicly funded STATE University where the students feel like they're getting screwed by the State GOP. I think it's also the Socialist central of area colleges. Trump basically invited the protestors. He wanted to manufacture outrage.

Cruz didn't have any problems at either of his two events. Rubio isn't competing in Illinois except through SuperPACs.

While logically true, "He was asking for it. Come on. Look at what he was wearing and what he was doing and saying." is not excuse.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:34 pm

Zarathud wrote:Trump WASN'T at a private venue! It was a publicly funded STATE University where the students feel like they're getting screwed by the State GOP. I think it's also the Socialist central of area colleges. Trump basically invited the protestors. He wanted to manufacture outrage.

Cruz didn't have any problems at either of his two events. Rubio isn't competing in Illinois except through SuperPACs.

Ehh.. he rented it, right? People rent publicly owned spaces for private events all the time. I can't crash your wedding just because you are having it at a publicly owned venue.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:44 pm

Rip wrote: No, they are calling people racists without needing them to say anything racist. SO why not say racist things if you are going to be called a racist no matter what?

Thereby proving the allegations correct. Is that like a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:52 pm

LordMortis wrote:While logically true, "He was asking for it. Come on. Look at what he was wearing and what he was doing and saying." is not excuse.

More like Trump was loudly proclaiming "Come hither, you know you want it" and consenting to lap dances with the opposition until her parents (FOX News) came home. But I doubt Trump would appreciate being compared to an underage pr0n star crying crocodile tears.

If Trump can't even staff rallies without fucking up, he's not fit to run America, let alone make it Great Again. Kaisch and Cruz didn't have the same problems.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:52 pm

PLW wrote:Apparently the Trump got Hecker's Vetoed tonight. Trump is an idiot, but I'm not OK with this.

Not OK with what? The protesters or Trump shutting it down?

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:02 pm

Rip wrote:I hope you will feel the same when hordes of Trump supporting thugs begin showing up for the rallies of the others.

What do you think has stopped them from already doing that?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:16 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Rip wrote:I hope you will feel the same when hordes of Trump supporting thugs begin showing up for the rallies of the others.
What's stopped them from already doing that?

Respect of others to meet and rally without having a bunch of protesters trying to disrupt their ability to do so. But now that they see the other side doesn't care about that only a moron would handicap themselves by failing to return the disruption.

At which point I predict the BLM and cohorts will resort to rioting and burning stuff down because that is their MO.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:30 pm

Rip wrote: Respect of others

Lol

Rip wrote:But now that they see the other side doesn't care about that only a moron would handicap themselves by failing to return the disruption.

So that's all the farther their principles go?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:06 pm

Trump is bringing you to new lows, Rip.

Trump had to either cancel the rally or pay the legal fees for those who beat up all the protesters? LMAO

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:09 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Rip wrote: Respect of others
Lol

Rip wrote:But now that they see the other side doesn't care about that only a moron would handicap themselves by failing to return the disruption.
So that's all the farther their principles go?

Only twice as far as the others?

So someone who launches an attack is principled and someone who returns one is unprincipled?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:16 pm

So your contention is that these protesters are being funded and directed by the campaigns?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:19 pm

Rip wrote:
Alefroth wrote:
Rip wrote:I hope you will feel the same when hordes of Trump supporting thugs begin showing up for the rallies of the others.
What's stopped them from already doing that?
Respect of others to meet and rally without having a bunch of protesters trying to disrupt their ability to do so.

Oh God, don't ever change, Rip. Please.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:24 pm

The protesters handed trump exactly what he wanted in Chicago. They gifted it to him. The best defense is to ignore him and vote against him.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:26 pm

I disagree with Rubio on lots of policies. He's dead right here.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:31 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:So your contention is that these protesters are being funded and directed by the campaigns?

Directed and funded, no. Encouraging and using for political gain, absolutely.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:18 pm

Rip wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:So your contention is that these protesters are being funded and directed by the campaigns?
Directed and funded, no. Encouraging and using for political gain, absolutely.

So they can't possibly be citizens independently motivated by disgust at Trump's betrayal of American values, right?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:24 pm

Holman wrote:
Rip wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:So your contention is that these protesters are being funded and directed by the campaigns?
Directed and funded, no. Encouraging and using for political gain, absolutely.
So they can't possibly be citizens independently motivated by disgust at Trump's betrayal of American values, right?

If they are all they are doing is showing demonstrating that Americans show disgust of betrayal of their values by betraying those values to others. Interestingly enough by doing exactly what the racists used to do to peaceful civil rights rallies and political gatherings.

Kinda reminds me of Westboro Baptist Church tactics.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:55 pm

Is there any evidence of what actually prompted the cancellation?

I know there's video of scuffles that occurred after the rally was cancelled but I'm a little foggy about what actually led to the Trump campaign cancelling. Was it just the presence of the protesters?

Because the police say they didn't advise them to cancel

CPD spokesman Anthony Guglielmi told the AP that the department did not recommend Trump call off the event and said they had sufficent manpower to cover the rally. Guglielmi said that the decision to shut down the event was made "independently" by the Trump campaign.

It's looking more like a publicity stunt than a move motivated by safety.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:21 pm

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:27 pm

More on the Chicago Police's non-involvement in yesterday's cancellation:

"No one from the campaign contacted the Chicago Police Department and we were not involved at all in canceling the event," Guglielmi told CNN.

"I was literally standing next to the superintendent when we were notified by the university that the event had been canceled. I think a lot of people were surprised, including the Secret Service officer standing next to us who was notified at the same time."

Surely Trump isn't lying about what happened last night, right?

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:54 pm

Only Hillary lies

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:40 pm

I can see where this is heading: This contest can only end one way.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:06 am

TPM's sane Josh Marshall has a good post on Trump-rally violence today. It's longish, but here's the closing part:

...

What we have seen over the last two weeks isn't just an escalation of chaos and low level violence but a progressive normalization of unacceptable behavior - more racist verbal attacks, more violence. This is in turn clearly attracting more people who want trouble - on both sides. If you're an angry racist who wants to act out on his anger, can you imagine any better place to go than a Trump rally? If you hate Trump, his supporters and all he stands for and want to get physical about it, where best to go?

Again, this is not meant to equate the two sides. As I mentioned yesterday, Trump has repeatedly claimed that instances of crowd violence at his rallies occurred when protestors - "bad dudes" - attacked his supporters and his supporters fought back. Until the events last night in Chicago, there is no evidence that anything like this ever happened. Not once. It is all lies. It's still not clear exactly what happened last night in Chicago. I have seen numerous reports from the event that show that the great majority of protestors were peaceful, in many cases there as families, from various political and community organizations. But clearly there were scuffles and disorderly behavior inside that both sides participated in - who started what, I have no idea. It was a qualitative advance, or descent, from what had come before it.

But let's go back to the instance with Dimassimo [who seems to have rushed Trump], who appears to be a left wing activist affiliated with Black Lives Matter and similar groups. This is not only totally unacceptable behavior, it is also totally unhinged behavior. When you try to rush the stage when a presidential candidate with Secret Service protection is speaking, you are literally taking your life in your hands.

The climate Trump is creating at his events is one that not only disinhibits people who normally act within acceptable societal norms. He is drawing in, like moths to a flame, those who most want to act out on their animosities, drives and beliefs. It is the kind of climate where someone will eventually get killed.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:01 am

Exodor wrote: It's looking more like a publicity stunt than a move motivated by safety.

Of course it was. And the faithful are slurping it up.