Octopus Overlords

It is a crime for someone who is not an American to attempt to contribute to an American political campaign — and that includes in-kind contributions. These 13 individuals won't ever be tried in court, probably, but any assets they have in the United States will be frozen, and they will likely be forever barred from entry to the United States, and perhaps some of our allies.

It is also a crime for someone who is an American to know that a foreign entity was attempting to support an American campaign and not inform the FBI of this fact. It is a very serious crime for an American to aid in such activity.

More importantly: Donald Trump fired Comey to stop the Russia investigation. The Russian investigation has now borne real fruit in terms of identifying criminal attacks on our electoral system by Russian actors. That's enough to justify accusing the President of obstruction of justice in a political sense.

Also, the indictment makes it very clear that the the Mueller team has cracked this Russian activity open like an egg. If you're an American who helped in any way with this attack on our election, you now have a very compelling reason to be the first one to flip on other Americans involved. This is how the investigation could claw its way up to the Trump campaign apparatus and, if evidence supports it, lead to Kushner or Bannon.

Jeff V wrote:

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 pm If the US person were duped, which in all the cases in the indictment was true, then the US person has committed no crime.

That's gonna be your defense strategy, huh?

"I was duped!" is not a good defense for the President of the United States -- especially after covering up for over a year calling it a "nothingburger."

There's the Beef!

Fireball wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:00 pm [...]

Also, the indictment makes it very clear that the the Mueller team has cracked this Russian activity open like an egg. If you're an American who helped in any way with this attack on our election, you now have a very compelling reason to be the first one to flip on other Americans involved. This is how the investigation could claw its way up to the Trump campaign apparatus and, if evidence supports it, lead to Kushner or Bannon.

And Bannon, incidentally, is known to have spent 20 hours with Mueller's team this week.

Fitzy wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:39 pm

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:25 pm

Seems unlikely. These guys(and girls) went through great pains to hide the fact the were Russians. You would need not only contact but proof the American knew they were Russian. Lots of contacts identified in the indictment and not a single one was made aware they were Russian. I mean why would they after setting up a VPN for the sole purpose of appearing as Americans. Outing themselves as Russian to someone would have no upside.

These aren't kids playing a prank who were indicted: Yevgeny Prigozhin

Why would a billionaire have bothered to finance the attacks? And one close to Putin at that.

To get Americans all worked up in a lather and more worried about attacking each other than about what Russia may be up to around the world.

Seems to be working rather well.

Zarathud wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:18 pm

Jeff V wrote:

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 pm If the US person were duped, which in all the cases in the indictment was true, then the US person has committed no crime.

That's gonna be your defense strategy, huh?

"I was duped!" is not a good defense for the President of the United States -- especially after covering up for over a year calling it a "nothingburger."

There's the Beef!

It won't be him it will be some staffers. They are like redshirts. Expendable.

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:15 pm

Fitzy wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:39 pm

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:25 pm

Seems unlikely. These guys(and girls) went through great pains to hide the fact the were Russians. You would need not only contact but proof the American knew they were Russian. Lots of contacts identified in the indictment and not a single one was made aware they were Russian. I mean why would they after setting up a VPN for the sole purpose of appearing as Americans. Outing themselves as Russian to someone would have no upside.

These aren't kids playing a prank who were indicted: Yevgeny Prigozhin

Why would a billionaire have bothered to finance the attacks? And one close to Putin at that.

To get Americans all worked up in a lather and more worried about attacking each other than about what Russia may be up to around the world.

Seems to be working rather well.

A House divided cannot stand. Thank you Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and everyone one else on the right who made liberals and RINO's be perceived as worse than an external actor (Russia) determined to undermine our country.

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:17 pm

Zarathud wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:18 pm

Jeff V wrote:

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 pm If the US person were duped, which in all the cases in the indictment was true, then the US person has committed no crime.

That's gonna be your defense strategy, huh?

"I was duped!" is not a good defense for the President of the United States -- especially after covering up for over a year calling it a "nothingburger."

There's the Beef!

It won't be him it will be some staffers. They are like redshirts. Expendable.

But Trump is the one who has been money-laundering for Russian oligarchs all century. He's the one they've compromised. He's the one who has been covering for Putin since the campaign and has done everything he can to bend American policy towards Russian interests.

Crazy coincidence, right?

It might be worth some of you hard working data miners to gather a list of quotes from Rip where he denies something is true, only to have it be proven true, then move the goalposts and state this next thing is not true, only to have it be proven true, again and again.

Without a coherent theory, he has just been playing denial with each individual fact. I'm pretty tired of it. It's like trying to walk in sand, with a soul sucking leech on your back whispering in your ear about how there is nothing ahead and that you should just stop now before you embarrass yourself.

On that note, is there any way to get Rip included with the conspirators? If there were ever a dude that would say ANYTHING to avoid accountability for those undermining America, he's the very definition. American military? "A" number one. American government? Burn it down even if we have to get the Russians involved.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:33 pm It might be worth some of you hard working data miners to gather a list of quotes from Rip where he denies something is true, only to have it be proven true, then move the goalposts and state this next thing is not true, only to have it be proven true, again and again.

Without a coherent theory, he has just been playing denial with each individual fact. I'm pretty tired of it. It's like trying to walk in sand, with a soul sucking leech on your back whispering in your ear about how there is nothing ahead and that you should just stop now before you embarrass yourself.

On that note, is there any way to get Rip included with the conspirators? If there were ever a dude that would say ANYTHING to avoid accountability for those undermining America, he's the very definition. American military? "A" number one. American government? Burn it down even if we have to get the Russians involved.

Rip has never been wrong. There is nothing to find.

You should just stop now before you embarrass yourself......

What I'm seeing is that today's indictments

(1) establish that election-related crime occurred,
(2) make it nearly impossible to fire Rosenstein or Mueller,
(3) put pressure on remaining WH personalities to roll over to save themselves.

Other matters (secret communications, quids pro quo, money laundering, etc.) remain to be indicted. That Mueller's team is built for these is known; that Mueller's team knows far more than we thought is now clear.

Nevertheless the Trumpian takeaway, somehow, is

(1) Russians did it and Trump didn't!
(2) sanctions are unnecessary,
(3) it's time to close the investigation.

Yeah.

Like in 2014 when Rip supported Trump as "being able to do anything" including finding Bin Laden?

Rip has flip flopped on Trump enough to make Romney look like a Senator.

Like in 2014 when Rip supported Trump as "being able to do anything" including finding Bin Laden?

Rip has flip flopped on Trump enough to make Romney look competent enough to be a Senator.

I haven't flipped on him. I'm not a big fan of his style but the most of the policy positions are acceptable.

I would have much preferred Rand Paul and slightly preferred Ted Cruz. Trump would have been my 3rd or 4th choice from the initial candidate pool.

It is just in this crowd not thinking he is a reincarnation of Hitler gets me labeled as ardent supporter. I guess we are labeled on a sliding scale.

Glad to see you prefer the Zodiac Killer to Hitler.

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 pm and slightly preferred Ted Cruz.

Christ.

I'd buy the narcissist excuse if it wasn't for the mountains of other evidence indicating he's in bed with Russians. That's not even factoring all the other shady business deals we know about with them before he became President. If this could all be chalked up to narcissism, we wouldn't have a special counsel investigation which has already brought indictments and guilty pleas from multiple administration officials.

But even if, for the sake of argument, the narcissist excuse is accurate, is this really the type of mentally unhinged person you want running your country?

Fox News headlines are screaming about the Russian interference taking the form of anti Trump rallies.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:54 pm It's good to see that some people are starting to think that maybe there's a good chance President Trump is being blackmailed.

Indeed, sex is not the only kind of secret Trump harbors. He endured months of criticism first from Republican candidates, then Democrats, and all along from the media, for refusing to disclose his tax returns. Trump clearly feels protective of his financial information. Some of that information is in the hands of his business partners, many of whom are associated with Russia or are unsavory in some other way. All in all, the odds are disconcertingly high that Russia, or somebody, has blackmail leverage over the president of the United States.

Can you blackmail a man who has no shame and holds himself above the law?

Nailed it

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... dictments/

Forget the collusion. It's now fairly clear that a hostile nation actively worked to help Trump get elected (and Hillary not get elected). That he's not bright red (or a more reddish shade of orange) with embarrassment constantly is itself shameful.

Like, you were the choice that a country that very much wants America to not be great chose.

I read the indictment. The key thing here is that they have established (assuming for the moment that this is true) a conspiracy to influence the U.S. election in favor of Trump, and criminal violations as part of that conspiracy. That last part is big because I have read plenty of commentary suggesting that "collusion" could conceivably have occurred without a violation of criminal law. Before there was at least the possibility that Mueller might charge the senior people (up to Trump himself) with obstruction of justice and nothing else (which would have been a big problem politically). Now there are established criminal violations as part of the conspiracy - it's just a matter of tying the senior people into the conspiracy one by one.

The right-wing media is spinning this much as they have previous Mueller bombshells. "Because Mueller didn't mention XYZ in this indictment, then XYZ is off the hook." They're still operating under the delusion that Mueller is grasping at straws, and that he's putting something out - *anything* - to keep the liberal witch hunt going.

Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate the exact opposite. He's building a rock-solid case brick by agonizing brick.

hepcat wrote:

Rip wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 pm and slightly preferred Ted Cruz.

Christ.

Human turd that he is, at least Cruz isn't a Traitor.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

YellowKing wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:22 am The right-wing media is spinning this much as they have previous Mueller bombshells. "Because Mueller didn't mention XYZ in this indictment, then XYZ is off the hook." They're still operating under the delusion that Mueller is grasping at straws, and that he's putting something out - *anything* - to keep the liberal witch hunt going.

Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate the exact opposite. He's building a rock-solid case brick by agonizing brick.

Trumpsters: "No collusion! Exonerated! Witch hunt!"
Mueller: "Hold my beer..."

He has established criminal activity. Now it's down to connecting dots.

Kraken wrote:

YellowKing wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:22 am The right-wing media is spinning this much as they have previous Mueller bombshells. "Because Mueller didn't mention XYZ in this indictment, then XYZ is off the hook." They're still operating under the delusion that Mueller is grasping at straws, and that he's putting something out - *anything* - to keep the liberal witch hunt going.

Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate the exact opposite. He's building a rock-solid case brick by agonizing brick.

Trumpsters: "No collusion! Exonerated! Witch hunt!"
Mueller: "Hold my beer..."

He has established criminal activity. Now it's down to connecting dots.

I may be wrong but...

Now it's down to fine tuning, touching up and timing the release of the mosaic of dots.

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Not a coincidence that this came out just after a visit with Steve Bannon.

LordMortis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:38 pm Nailed it

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... dictments/

OMG.

The follow-on quote (a statement from the WH) is both ridiculous and chilling:

It is more important than ever before to come together as Americans. We cannot allow those seeking to sow confusion, discord, and rancor to be successful. It’s time we stop the outlandish partisan attacks, wild and false allegations, and far-fetched theories, which only serve to further the agendas of bad actors, like Russia, and do nothing to protect the principles of our institutions. We must unite as Americans to protect the integrity of our democracy and our elections.

Translation: "The investigation is the real enemy."

YellowKing wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:22 pm But even if, for the sake of argument, the narcissist excuse is accurate, is this really the type of mentally unhinged person you want running your country?

Hell no. He should be disqualified based on his narcissism. I cannot imagine a worse personality trait in the White House short of a psychopath.

The jaw dropping thing about that White House statement is that they had the audacity to call Russians "bad actors" while simultaneously implying the Russians did nothing wrong. The cognitive dissonance they suffer through every day boggles the mind.

From the internets, according the the indictment this all started back in 2014. Let's see what Trump was bloviating about in 2014

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7275474944

I wonder if I run for PRESIDENT, will the haters and losers vote for me knowing that I will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN? I say they will!
6:52 PM - 26 Sep 2014

EDIT: These auto-configuring Twitter embeds are crap. Total. Crap.

I can't wait to read the future story about how she was played like a fiddle by Russian agents.

https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/965291004038348800

It's being reported that Rick Gates has now agreed to plead guilty AND testify against Manafort.

A former top aide to Donald Trump's presidential campaign will plead guilty to fraud-related charges within days – and has made clear to prosecutors that he would testify against Paul J. Manafort Jr., the lawyer-lobbyist who once managed the campaign.

The change of heart by Trump's former deputy campaign manager, Richard W. Gates III, who had pleaded not guilty after being indicted in October on charges similar to Manafort's, was described in interviews by people familiar with the case.

This puts absolutely tremendous pressure on Manafort, who is now looking at spending the rest of his life in prison unless he tells everything he knows.

I hope Manafort gets nailed to the wall as karma for the awful things he's spent his career doing. If there was a way to take down Roger Stone too, that'd be great.

America is Under Attack and the President Doesn't Care.

It's remarkable how fact-based such a seemingly scathing opinion headline is getting.

Zaxxon wrote:America is Under Attack and the President Doesn't Care.

It's remarkable how fact-based such a seemingly scathing opinion headline is getting.

Frum was a speechwriter for W, FWIW.

Yup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... OvZeAecOZ4

Nancy Cordes: But it does beg the question, how is it that these Russian operatives knew to focus on purple states like Michigan and Wisconsin and your campaign didn’t?

I LOLed.

Trump Jr. told them in one of the off the book meetings?

Rip wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:54 am beg the question,

No idea why this bothers me but it does.

But more importantly

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics ... index.html

Dmitry Peskov sounds just like Trump. One is a spokesman Putin, the other is apparently willing to be interviewed by CNN.

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:08 pm

Rip wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:54 am beg the question,

No idea why this bothers me but it does.

I'd suppose it bothers you because the expression "beg the question" doesn't really mean what she thinks it means. Not yet, anyway (eventually, when enough people misuse a word or phrase, the meaning can change).