Election integrity and the transfer of power

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:27 pm

Agolf might have fared better with Raffensperger's Chinese agent brother.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:34 pm

Unsurprisingly, there is not a single mention of this on Fox News’ front page right now. The main story is Pelosi’s “razor thin” vote to remain Speaker.

There are lots of MAGAs who will very literally never know this happened.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:14 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:34 pm Unsurprisingly, there is not a single mention of this on Fox News’ front page right now. The main story is Pelosi’s “razor thin” vote to remain Speaker.

There are lots of MAGAs who will very literally never know this happened.

Even if it were on their front page news and they did report on air, they probably would never know if they only watched shows like Carlson and Hannity.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:19 pm

I think history shows that Trump supporters will find no wrong doing in that phone call whatsoever. As a matter of fact, they'd probably declare it perfectly fine and a sign that Trump is doing his job. That's the kind of disconnect we're dealing with when it comes to their cult.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:25 pm

hepcat wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:19 pm I think history shows that Trump supporters will find no wrong doing in that phone call whatsoever. As a matter of fact, they'd probably declare it perfectly fine and a sign that Trump is doing his job. That's the kind of disconnect we're dealing with when it comes to their cult.

I think we can all agree that the real crime here was recording the call. How underhanded!

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:38 pm

hepcat wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:19 pm I think history shows that Trump supporters will find no wrong doing in that phone call whatsoever. As a matter of fact, they'd probably declare it perfectly fine and a sign that Trump is doing his job. That's the kind of disconnect we're dealing with when it comes to their cult.

Yep, that seems to be the common theme. He’s “fighting” against the corrupt powers that stole the election from him...and why shouldn’t he?

Also, here’s the full call and transcript, since I’m also seeing lots of “taken out of context” jabber.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:43 pm

Here's a (liberal Dem punditty biased, sure) live-tweet thread of the full call:

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1 ... 95585?s=20

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:54 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:44 pm I get that Dems don’t have the same media propaganda apparatus that the GOP does, but why the fuck aren’t Biden and Harris visibly out in front of this? Why are they not on the Sunday morning talk shows? Why are they not being interviewed on the nightly news shows calling this out as the blatant bullshit it is? I get that it will never be amplified to the extent that Trump is, but say something FFS.

I just looked at Biden’s Twitter and there’s literally no specific mention of any of this over the past few days. It’s all very general “our best days are ahead” and “we must pull together to overcome challenges” drivel. I get that they expect the process to play out and recognize this for the political theater it is, but they should be calling out these traitors loudly and often for the damage they’re doing to our country.

The silence - broken only by the occasional “tsk tsk” - is frustrating.

Perhaps they determined all they need do is sit back and wait for Agolf to self immolate. Appears to be correct strategy at this point.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:17 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:38 pmAlso, here’s the full call and transcript, since I’m also seeing lots of “taken out of context” jabber.

I'm sure it's the only phone call he made - just randomly happen to call GA and they recorded it. I'm confident he wasn't calling other states to have them do exactly the same thing.

To borrow a phrase, lordy I hope there are tapes.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:35 pm

I love how he claims at the beginning of the call that it’s obvious they had more votes because they had larger attendance at rallies.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:38 pm

https://twitter.com/kristin__wilson/sta ... 39152?s=19

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:58 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:34 pm Unsurprisingly, there is not a single mention of this on Fox News’ front page right now. The main story is Pelosi’s “razor thin” vote to remain Speaker.

There are lots of MAGAs who will very literally never know this happened.

Several hours later and fox has it near the middle of their page. Pathetic!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:11 pm

It’s now at the top of their page.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:12 pm

Scraper wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:58 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:34 pm Unsurprisingly, there is not a single mention of this on Fox News’ front page right now. The main story is Pelosi’s “razor thin” vote to remain Speaker.

There are lots of MAGAs who will very literally never know this happened.
Several hours later and fox has it near the middle of their page. Pathetic!

It's their headline now. I'm really getting more and more scared that he's going to do something completely insane before this is all over.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:21 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:38 pmAlso, here’s the full call and transcript, since I’m also seeing lots of “taken out of context” jabber.

Just made it through that. The inescapable conclusion is Trump is hopelessly mentally ill. The mentions of conspiracies and weird rivalries are just prevalent throughout. Trump saying that Stacey has "outplayed" Raffensperger was another WTF comment for me for instance. The mental illness angle is not new but he sounds to be cracking like an egg and I can't help but worry that he is going to pull something. Another takeaway is that if not for the high integrity of the officials in GA we might be having a very different conversation now. It is deeply unnerving.

Edit: One big picture note. I can't find a mention of *how* WaPo got this recording/transcript. I want to understand who released or leaked it and understand why.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:45 pm

All 10 former DefSecs telling them to knock it the fuck off.

I mean, when even Dick Cheney is saying “damn, slow your treasonous roll”, you know you’ve probably stepped over a line.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:58 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:45 pm All 10 former DefSecs telling them to knock it the fuck off.

I mean, when even Dick Cheney is saying “damn, slow your treasonous roll”, you know you’ve probably stepped over a line.

And for him, Rummy, etc to speak up it also sort of says something, yikesters.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:03 pm

Yeah, exactly. For them to collectively come out and say this publicly means there is complete chaos happening right now behind the scenes. As I've repeatedly said over the last 4 years, I hope I'm still alive when we all eventually learn the details about what was really happening in the Trump Administration. I'm convinced more than ever it's 100% worse than we can even imagine.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:03 pm

Frum nails it in the Atlantic

And now again, Trump presents the country with a crisis and a conundrum.

What Trump did on that call with Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger, first reported by The Washington Post this afternoon, might well have been a crime. More than that cannot be said until and unless a jury is heard from. But Trump has reason to worry about new juries today, alongside all the other juries he was worrying about yesterday.

The Raffensperger tape shows Trump’s Plan A to stay ahead of the law: election tampering. That plan will reach its finale on January 6—the point of no return, the last minute for stunts and sabotage. A shameful number of Republican members of the House and Senate have signed up for the stunts and sabotage, but not enough to prevent the inevitable outcome of a Biden-Harris inauguration on January 20.

Trump’s thoughts now must turn to a Plan B. Plan B is to protect himself from juries even if he loses office. Plan B points to a self-pardon, and the huge crisis that must ensue.

President-elect Biden has already signaled his high preference not to take legal action against his predecessor. A President Biden could not protect a former President Trump from state criminal actions or civil liability, but he could signal to the Department of Justice that prosecuting a former president for federal crimes would be divisive and distracting, and therefore is to be avoided if at all possible.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:08 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:21 pmEdit: One big picture note. I can't find a mention of *how* WaPo got this recording/transcript. I want to understand who released or leaked it and understand why.

Well I might have my answer now. That makes sense. Also, unsurprisingly the head of the GA GOP is a liar.

https://twitter.com/DavidShafer/status/ ... 5605543940

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:31 pm

What does he think Raffensberger can do, and assuming he could and does overturn the election, Trump still doesn't win. There's no getting that horse back into the barn.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:41 pm

Alefroth wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:31 pm What does he think Raffensberger can do, and assuming he could and does overturn the election, Trump still doesn't win. There's no getting that horse back into the barn.

My initial thought is it doesn't have to make any sort of sense. The man is broken. Still this fits into Trump's lifelong pattern of abuse of the legal system. You have to give him one thing, he never gives up even if it means crime. He just beats on walls/kicks doors down knowing that our system generally doesn't punish people like him. Why not try? That is why he will probably self-pardon. He might as well give it a shot.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:00 pm

It appears the GOP rule from DC when in fact they are from Exegol

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:01 pm

Alefroth wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:31 pm What does he think Raffensberger can do, and assuming he could and does overturn the election, Trump still doesn't win. There's no getting that horse back into the barn.

I would guess he thinks that if GA falls, all the other states would follow suit.

I also expect he’s made similar calls to the SoS in all the other “contested” states.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:39 pm

I'm thinking the House should introduce Articles of Impeachment immediately. Not that there is any chance of conviction, even Romney won't go that far. But this blatant attempt to corruptly overthrow an election needs to be front and center for the next two weeks plus. The goal is not conviction, but to keep Agolf distracted from starting WWIII.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:47 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:41 pm
Alefroth wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:31 pm What does he think Raffensberger can do, and assuming he could and does overturn the election, Trump still doesn't win. There's no getting that horse back into the barn.
My initial thought is it doesn't have to make any sort of sense. The man is broken. Still this fits into Trump's lifelong pattern of abuse of the legal system. You have to give him one thing, he never gives up even if it means crime. He just beats on walls/kicks doors down knowing that our system generally doesn't punish people like him. Why not try? That is why he will probably self-pardon. He might as well give it a shot.

I suppose it gives those who are going to contest the count on Wednesday the tiniest toehold to cling to. It sounds like some accountants are going to be releasing some numbers in the next couple days. I'm sure we'll hear about those on Wednesday as well.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:14 am

Ah the canaries are loud tonight.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JackPosobiec ... 5727029251

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:16 am

After listening to just snippets of the call, I feel like we should just get rid of Section 4 of the 25th Amendment.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:36 am

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:17 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:38 pmAlso, here’s the full call and transcript, since I’m also seeing lots of “taken out of context” jabber.
I'm sure it's the only phone call he made - just randomly happen to call GA and they recorded it. I'm confident he wasn't calling other states to have them do exactly the same thing.

To borrow a phrase, lordy I hope there are tapes.

It has come out now that Trump tried to contact Raffensperger 18 times after Election Day. The tape we have is the only time he took the call.

Trump was definitely leaning hard. His problem is that most of the other swing state officials are Democrats who were never going to play along at “finding” votes.

It’s nice to see evidence that the president is working hard, though.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:46 am

Must have been a rainy day when he couldn't golf.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:18 am

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:01 pm
Alefroth wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:31 pm What does he think Raffensberger can do, and assuming he could and does overturn the election, Trump still doesn't win. There's no getting that horse back into the barn.
I would guess he thinks that if GA falls, all the other states would follow suit.

I also expect he’s made similar calls to the SoS in all the other “contested” states.

Something like that. He has to "flip" 3 or 4 states. Georgia's not enough, but: (1) it would be a start; and (2) Georgia flipping its results would give some cover to GOP people in other states (like AZ) to 'review' / flip their results, and give Trump some ground to pressure them.

It's also true that Trump isn't the most detailed planner or long-term thinker.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:43 am

Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:

16 DAYS

Agolf tries to pressure GA SOS Raffensberger into giving him 11,780 votes on another "perfect" call. He's like some emo that got a phone number at a bar and can't stop calling.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:18 pm

Recent events have left me wondering when we're supposed to invoke the 2nd Amendment against the people attempting to overthrow our republic.

What's the tipping point where a nation devolves into civil war? I'm sure as hell not interested in living in a country where only one party (and subsequently only one world view) is allowed to be in power. How far do things go in other nations before the people take to the streets with arms?

I know we're not there yet, and likely may never get there - but this stopped being funny a long time ago and feels like a serious threat to the nation.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:51 pm

I don't buy this, but it did immediately trigger me:

Plane Sightings Fuel Rumors Trump Planning Escape to Scotland on Day Before Biden Inauguration

GOLF WAR

Warning, this was triggered:

Spoiler:

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:05 pm

I have no doubt that he will flee. I really don't think there's any chance he ends up in jail, but he's such a pussy that he will run anyway. I look forward to him being the shadow president for the next 4 years.

When you think about it he's been f'n us over for 12 years and I don't see it stopping now. I will have a yuge party when he finally kicks the bucket.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:18 pm

There were 18 attempted calls from the White House to GA secretary of state's office, sources say

==========================================================================================================

What's the tipping point where a nation devolves into civil war?

Rome fell to Caesar.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:22 pm

Octavious wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:05 pm I have no doubt that he will flee. I really don't think there's any chance he ends up in jail, but he's such a pussy that he will run anyway. I look forward to him being the shadow president for the next 4 years. When you think about it he's been f'n us over for 12 years and I don't see it stopping now. I will have a yuge party when he finally kicks the bucket.

I think there's a decent chance that he leaves the country. I think his prospects of winding up in prison are higher than people think, and high enough that I'd be inclined to hang out elsewhere for awhile.

I wouldn't think Scotland would be the most likely choice, though.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:31 pm

I hope he tries and is detained on the tarmac, mainly because it will make the movie ending 100x better.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:42 pm

Octavious wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:05 pm I have no doubt that he will flee. I really don't think there's any chance he ends up in jail, but he's such a pussy that he will run anyway. I look forward to him being the shadow president for the next 4 years. When you think about it he's been f'n us over for 12 years and I don't see it stopping now. I will have a yuge party when he finally kicks the bucket.

How does a President flee when he's got Secret Service around him all the time? And if the Secret Service's oath is to the Consittution and not the President, would they be required to detain him if he decides to flee?

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:42 pm

Paingod wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:18 pmWhat's the tipping point where a nation devolves into civil war?

When the military splits. You can't have a war without opposing military forces. On the bright side, every indication is that there is absolutely no possibility of this happening any time soon.

How far do things go in other nations before the people take to the streets with arms?

That's a very different question. There are a few general reasons you see armed insurrection around the world...

Occupation by a perceived foreign power - doesn't really apply to us, fortunately.
The system breaks down so completely that large numbers of people no longer have access to what they need to survive - more good news, we're nowhere near this point either.
Elite overproduction - your society produces more smart, educated, ambitious people who think that they should be in charge than it has room for, so they start trying to make room - potentially very bad news for us.