COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

[Kraken]

Wife's supposed to go into the office tomorrow morning and is NOT happy about it, mostly because she has too much work to do to lose a whole day. First there's the commute, which is (optimistically) 45 minutes each way. Then, she has to start the day with a covid test and wait half an hour for the result -- this is going to be the protocol every time she goes in. Then, she has to try to get some work done in their open office with no privacy. It's just going to be a wasted day for no good reason; she's far more effective working from home. She is threatening to call in sick. She's been sneezing a lot all weekend so it wouldn't be a big stretch.

BTW, she's not going "back to" the office. She took this job just as the shutdown hit, and has never been there before.

[FishPants]

It will be interesting to see if "office culture" comes back, at least for the countries/regions that shut down for the past 2 years anyways. It's odd that I haven't stepped foot inside of our corporate offices since January 2020. We've been acquired even since then, and return to office plans have been put on pause -- everyone we are trying to recruit, the first question is what the stance is on 100% remote work. When they hear our intention is 2 days a week in office, they just hang up.

I can't say I ever want to see the inside of a commuter train on the regular again, but I am willing to drive to one of the regional offices if there's a point in me going (vs optics of just being in the office while talking to my team on MS Teams because they are scattered around the globe anyways).

[YellowKing]

My boss started clearing out his office last week because he was told that we would be work from home "indefinitely" at this point. Our new parent organization had a significant WFH stance even prior to the pandemic due to their multi-state coverage, so this only reinforced their model. And any attempts to put the genie back in the bottle at this point would be very difficult since we've started hiring out-of-state WFH employees. There's no good way to tell an employee that they have to come in, but their counterpart in the same position who happens to live in Virginia can WFH.

The first inkling I had that we'd never be going back to the office was when we started investing heavily in various WFH tech - virtual desktops, various security platforms, etc. Talk is cheap, but when a company starts pumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into technology to make sure you can do your job remotely, I know they're not seeing this as a 1-2 year anomaly.

[Kraken]

Wife finally did drag herself in this morning, although it was touch-and-go right up until she left. She texted that she "commuted, parked, tested, cleared for access, and equipped with new IDs that work. Not as bad as I expected." Still pointless, but she unlocked the achievement at least.

[Carpet_pissr]

Now my brother has it. His wife has had it for about a week, both of them fully vaccinated. Both have been quarantining, and both wearing masks and trying to stay away from each other as much as possible. He said with how strongly she has been coughing, even with a mask on, he felt the mask was almost useless.

All three of my "kin" who have it (sister, brother, SiL) currently have most of the same symptoms, though only my brother is showing a fever. Mostly bad cold/allergy symptoms. Would not want to know how poorly they would be faring now had they not been vaccinated.

Side note: my niece, who is in Charleston working as a teacher for elementary aged kids, and her roomate, who works at a Medical University there (MUSC), were in their apartment two days ago, and the landlord comes inside to let them know the results of his working on the AC. No mask. He calls them the next day to tell them that he's sorry, but that he HAS COVID (he knew he had it at the time), and had forgotten to put his mask on when he went to talk to them. %!$@%$ WTF man. Now BOTH of them (both young kids, just out of college, so BEING THERE on the job is super important at this stage) are having to call out for 2 weeks (or whatever it is now) bc this guy was so thoughtless. Unbelievable.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Some compelling perspective on redesigning the airflow in buildings as a means of prevention, courtesy of The Atlantic:

The Plan to Stop Every Respiratory Virus at Once

The benefits of ventilation reach far beyond the coronavirus. What if we stop taking colds and flus for granted, too?

By Sarah Zhang



When London vanquished cholera in the 19th century, it took not a vaccine, or a drug, but a sewage system. The city’s drinking water was intermingling with human waste, spreading bacteria in one deadly outbreak after another. A new comprehensive network of sewers separated the two. London never experienced a major cholera outbreak after 1866. All that was needed was 318 million bricks, 23 million cubic feet of concrete, and a major reengineering of the urban landscape.

The 19th and early 20th century saw a number of ambitious public-health efforts like this. The United States eliminated yellow fever and malaria, for example, with a combination of pesticides, wide-scale landscape management, and window screens that kept mosquitoes at bay. One by one, the diseases that people accepted as inevitable facts in life—dysentery, typhoid, typhus, to name a few more—became unacceptable in the developing world. But after all this success, after all we’ve done to prevent the spread of disease through water and insects, we seem to have overlooked something. We overlooked air.

This turned out to have devastating consequences for the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic. The original dogma, you might remember, was that the novel coronavirus spread like the flu, through droplets that quickly fell out of the air. We didn’t need ventilation or masks; we needed to wash our hands and disinfect everything we touched. But a year and half of evidence has made clear that the tiny virus-laden particles indeed linger in the air of poorly ventilated areas. It explains why outdoors is safer than in, why a single infected person can super-spread to dozens of others without directly speaking to or touching them. If we are to live with this coronavirus forever—as seems very likely—some scientists are now pushing to reimagine building ventilation and clean up indoor air. We don’t drink contaminated water. Why do we tolerate breathing contaminated air?

It’s not just about COVID-19. The scientists who recognized the threat of airborne coronavirus early did so because they spent years studying evidence that—contrary to conventional wisdom—common respiratory illnesses such as the flu and colds can also spread through the air. We’ve long accepted colds and flus as inevitable facts of life, but are they? Why not redesign the airflow in our buildings to prevent them, too? What’s more, says Raymond Tellier, a microbiologist at McGill University, SARS-CoV-2 is unlikely to be the last airborne pandemic. The same measures that protect us from common viruses might also protect us from the next unknown pathogen.

[Smoove_B]

Everything old is new again as we head back into the days of miasma.

In all seriousness, it's likely long overdue. The "sick air" syndrome that kicked off here in the U.S. after the energy crisis of the 70s is likely part of the problem. We fixed heating/cooling leaks, but didn't address air quality.

Didn't see this, so thanks for sharing!

[El Guapo]

I would think that COVID would yield a lot of natural data on the impacts of various ventilation system that would be pretty useful. Seems pretty sensible to use this and a mix of state and federal money to upgrade ventilation systems.

[Smoove_B]

Breaking news on vaccinating kids under 12:

https://twitter.com/clairecm/status/1436020270184079379

Fauci on pediatric vaccine timing, talking to @apoorva_nyc: Pfizer plans to submit data late Sept/early Oct, Moderna a month later. Then, IF the FDA “deems this is an emergency situation for children,” it could authorize by EUA. If all goes as expected, <12 vaccines in November.

[El Guapo]

So, we have tickets that we bought awhile back to see Dude Perfect at TD Garden on October 21st (originally scheduled for this July, but got postponed). My 9 YO son loves them, and honestly I enjoy watching their shows too. I had hoped that he might be vaccinated in time for the show, but that seems almost certainly not in the cards at this point. I don't relish telling him that he can't go, though it seems wildly unsafe to have him in a crowded indoor stadium where people are likely to be yelling / cheering.

The stadium has an indoor mask requirement (even for vaccinated) per state law, with the threat of getting kicked out if they have to tell you twice. They also require you to tell them at least two days in advance if you have a medical condition that prevents you from wearing a mask (to head off that argument / defense). But honestly I doubt that they're likely to vigorously enforce it, and I can't imagine being in the position of reporting people around us to security.

Sigh. My main hope at this point is that the state or stadium force the issue by requiring proof of vaccination (which would presumably either force them to postpone this or preclude my son from going). Which given trends seems like there's a decent chance of that happening within the next 6 weeks, at least.

[Smoove_B]

How much do you trust 15,000 strangers?

[Isgrimnur]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/1e8a9761-c ... c6c62610f7

[El Guapo]

How much do you trust 15,000 strangers?

Yeah, that's the problem. I've flagged for him that it may not happen / we may not be able to go. If the state doesn't wind up pulling the plug then I'll probably need to sell the tickets and buy him something else instead.

[Smoove_B]

None at all, indeed.

I'm not allowing myself to get into situations where organizations require proof but that proof isn't being verified by a 3rd party. If "proof" is me flashing a white card to someone standing at the stadium gate? Nope.

But now that we know vaccination data bases have been compromised, I'm even hesitant with that - until we can get a handle on how bad it is.

So yeah, I have trust issues.

[TheMix]

So yeah, I have trust issues.

You are not alone.

[coopasonic]

None at all, indeed.

I'm not allowing myself to get into situations where organizations require proof but that proof isn't being verified by a 3rd party. If "proof" is me flashing a white card to someone standing at the stadium gate? Nope.

But now that we know vaccination data bases have been compromised, I'm even hesitant with that - until we can get a handle on how bad it is.

So yeah, I have trust issues.

Yeah I am getting a refund on BGG.CON this fall because while they are requiring vaccination or a negative test, they are not requiring any proof, only a checkbox on a form followed by another checkbox absolving the organizer and host hotel of any liability.

[Zaxxon]

None at all, indeed.

I'm not allowing myself to get into situations where organizations require proof but that proof isn't being verified by a 3rd party. If "proof" is me flashing a white card to someone standing at the stadium gate? Nope.

But now that we know vaccination data bases have been compromised, I'm even hesitant with that - until we can get a handle on how bad it is.

So yeah, I have trust issues.

Yeah I am getting a refund on BGG.CON this fall because while they are requiring vaccination or a negative test, they are not requiring any proof, only a checkbox on a form followed by another checkbox absolving the organizer and host hotel of any liability.

[El Guapo]

None at all, indeed.

I'm not allowing myself to get into situations where organizations require proof but that proof isn't being verified by a 3rd party. If "proof" is me flashing a white card to someone standing at the stadium gate? Nope.

But now that we know vaccination data bases have been compromised, I'm even hesitant with that - until we can get a handle on how bad it is.

So yeah, I have trust issues.

Fortunately / unfortunately that's not going to be an issue here, because if they impose a vaccine requirement then my son can't go since he can't be vaccinated, so the verification issue becomes irrelevant.

[El Guapo]

None at all, indeed.

I'm not allowing myself to get into situations where organizations require proof but that proof isn't being verified by a 3rd party. If "proof" is me flashing a white card to someone standing at the stadium gate? Nope.

But now that we know vaccination data bases have been compromised, I'm even hesitant with that - until we can get a handle on how bad it is.

So yeah, I have trust issues.

They should require people to submit images of vaccination cards or other proof of vaccination for this stuff. Even if they effectively don't check what's submitted and/or even if it's easy to fake, I think that's still worthwhile because I think most people are going to get nervous about submitting falsified documents (especially if you put some "I affirm under threat of X penalty that this is true and correct" checkbox in there), so most people will either get vaccinated before the concert / event or will decline to go. Even if some people inevitably cheat, the requirements should still reduce the overall risk considerably.

Just a checkbox or flashing a card to an underpaid security guard won't cut it, though (though even the latter is not completely worthless).

[ImLawBoy]

None at all, indeed.

I'm not allowing myself to get into situations where organizations require proof but that proof isn't being verified by a 3rd party. If "proof" is me flashing a white card to someone standing at the stadium gate? Nope.

But now that we know vaccination data bases have been compromised, I'm even hesitant with that - until we can get a handle on how bad it is.

So yeah, I have trust issues.

Fortunately / unfortunately that's not going to be an issue here, because if they impose a vaccine requirement then my son can't go since he can't be vaccinated, so the verification issue becomes irrelevant.

All of the vaccine requirements I've seen require vaccination or proof of negative COVID test within 48-72 hours of the event, and I imagine it will be that way at least until the under 12 set can get vaccinated. Don't rely on the venue imposing these restrictions to save you.

[Kraken]

My radio told me two things while I was driving home from the supermarket:

Patton Oswalt is canceling shows where the venue doesn't require proof of vaccination or a negative test. That doesn't affect his current Boston appearance but will keep him home from the red states.

Also, Moderna expects to introduce a combination covid/flu shot. They didn't say when.

[dbt1949]

My wife visited her doctor yesterday and he asked her if she was going to get a booster shot. I asked if they were available and he said no. I asked whether she should and he hemmed and hawed and said the verdict wasn't in yet.
So why in the hell did he ask her?

[Smoove_B]

Also, Moderna expects to introduce a combination covid/flu shot. They didn't say when.

They just published data this morning and it's actually 3 shots in one. The WiFi boost must be incredible!

https://twitter.com/moderna_tx/status/1 ... 5377136641

Today, we shared positive pre-clinical data demonstrating our ability to combine 6 mRNAs against 3 different respiratory viruses in 1 vaccine: COVID-19 booster + Flu booster + RSV booster.

[Unagi]

They just published data this morning and it's actually 3 shots in one. The WiFi boost must be incredible!

Guaranteed 4 bars cell signal if you get this shot!


That should perhaps help the Darwinian problem we find ourselves in. (if only)

[Smoove_B]

https://twitter.com/JonathanLanday/stat ... 2976520194

Top U.S. health officials believe that Pfizer Inc's (PFE.N) COVID-19 vaccine could be authorized for children aged 5-11 years old by the end of October, two sources familiar with the situation said on Friday.

Missed this last night. Figured it would be bigger news.

[Unagi]

Glad to read that !!

[Zaxxon]

[Rumpy]

This week, had a haircut with my hairdresser, and she works out of her home, but been going to see her long before she operated out of her home, so been pretty loyal, plus she's always done a good job. Always knew she was off her rocker, but there was always this air of mutual respect and understanding, in respect to beliefs. But this week she showed her true colors. We have an upcoming election in a few weeks, and while in the past, she's never voiced any political opinion and kept mostly to herself, in fact she's admitted before that she never watches the news and never cared much for politics. This week she was trying to bait me into finding out who I plan on voting for, and I wasn't engaging in her, but she could tell I was unconvinced. This led to her talking about how she's unvaccinated, doesn't plan on it and doesn't believe in the virus being real, and how if 12 year olds are allowed to walk around unvaccinated, that it must not be as bad as what's being said. I so felt like saying that we were still masking up for the benefit of people like her and that the reason it hasn't been so bad has been because of vaccinations, but I held my breath and made my decision that she's lost a loyal client. Won't be going back there again with that attitude. I can't consciously keep supporting her destructive beliefs and habit.

She's one that has often complained about almost everything while simultaneously not caring about enough about doing something about it. She has a Son who plays hockey, or has in the past, but says he doesn't want to play anymore because of all the Covid-regulations limiting team size. Yeah, Booohooo.

[dbt1949]

I wonder how many people have recuperated from covid.

[Blackhawk]

I wonder how many people have recuperated from covid.

201,895,538

[Alefroth]

Are we considering recuperating and surviving the same thing?

A neighbor had Covid back in March 2020 and still hasn't regained his sense of smell. I'm not sure I'd consider him recovered.

[Smoove_B]

It's on the spectrum and it depends on who is doing the reporting. On my end we label outcomes like this:

(1) Dead
(2) Full recovery
(3) Recovery with disability (acute or chronic)

I don't want to speak ill of my partners in private health, but my impression sometimes is that for crisis events they're really on focused on death vs not-death, which is understandable - the general public certainly seems to be as well.

[Carpet_pissr]

I so felt like saying that we were still masking up for the benefit of people like her

So glad you didn’t. I’m TOTALLY not masking up still for the benefit of people like her.

Hell, I’m this close to actively unmasking and coughing on people like her.

[Rumpy]

I so felt like saying that we were still masking up for the benefit of people like her

So glad you didn’t. I’m TOTALLY not masking up still for the benefit of people like her.

Hell, I’m this close to actively unmasking and coughing on people like her.

Oh, she totally disgusted me. I tolerated her for years, but she stopped over the line this time. It's times like these that make me wonder as to their health and safety in terms of her business. She does regularly need to get inspected, and she does constantly come into direct contact with her clients. My feeling would be that she's endangering everyone around her, both client and family and feels entirely wreckless especially when there's a way to help curb the spread. If she loses clients and fails to support herself, that's entirely on her. Coming across people like her feels quite discouraging.

[El Guapo]

I've had a mild sore throat for maybe half a week. It's at most an irritant and not especially noticeable for the most part, and I have zero other symptoms, though now every time I have any random symptom I'm wondering whether it's a mild breakthrough infection.

[Jaymon]

My daughter sounds to be recovered. Her sense of smell is back for a couple days now, and no more symptoms.
My crazy ex never did get her tested. Despite my repeated encouragements.

But now I face a new conundrum. I have an 11 year old in the house. Is it safe for him to be exposed? How long after having (almost certainly) covid is a person infectious? I know I can google that biz, I am just sharing.

[Pyperkub]

Are we considering recuperating and surviving the same thing?

A neighbor had Covid back in March 2020 and still hasn't regained his sense of smell. I'm not sure I'd consider him recovered.

Did he get vaxxed afterwards?

Data shows that getting vaxxed after infection gives even greater immunity.

Also, some covid long haul sufferers have recovered after getting vaxxed.

[Smoove_B]

Top U.S. health officials believe that Pfizer Inc's (PFE.N) COVID-19 vaccine could be authorized for children aged 5-11 years old by the end of October, two sources familiar with the situation said on Friday.

No, no, things are totally organized and following a very specific, easily communicated schedule.

https://twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/14 ... 7013068803

“We’re hoping by the end of the year.” -@CDCDirector Rochelle Walensky on when kids under 12 might be eligible for the COVID-19 vaccine

What a difference a weekend makes. Not helping.

[El Guapo]

Yeah, I get an anxiety spike everytime she talks about when it'll be authorized. Though it helps that "by the end of October" and "before the end of the year" are not in conflict, and she has plenty of self-interested reasons to maintain a "by the end of the year" timeline in terms of under-promising and over-delivering.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, I get an anxiety spike everytime she talks about when it'll be authorized. Though it helps that "by the end of October" and "before the end of the year" are not in conflict, and she has plenty of self-interested reasons to maintain a "by the end of the year" timeline in terms of under-promising and over-delivering.

That's what I hope every time I hear EoY or midwinter. After the palpitations stop.

My brother's kids are 2 and 5. The 5yo's daycare class has has 9 positives in 2 weeks. That nephew, my niece, and my sister-in-law all got it late last week. My brother has tested 3 times, all negative, but is mentally preparing to get it at this point. Both adults are Moderna-vaxxed. Thankfully the kids are already pretty much over it, but my s-i-l is still not feeling good and can't smell.