Octopus Overlords

msduncan wrote: Some of his supporters (poached from Bush Sr.) rejoin support for him. Enough to keep Bush Sr. from winning. A significant percentage abandon him. Enough to keep him from winning.

This time we get the bitch instead of the guy that was actually qualified.

Defiant wrote: Well, I suppose, arguably, Perot was qualified (certainly compared to Trump), but I didn't realize Trump was a bitch. I was assured he had no problem down there.

Jag wrote:Trump names who he consults for foreign policy advice:

“I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain, and I’ve said a lot of things," Trump said during an early-morning phone interview on MSNBC. "I know what I'm doing, and I listen to a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people, and at the appropriate time I'll tell you who the people are," he continued. “But I speak to a lot of people, but my primary consultant is myself, and I have a good instinct for this stuff.”

tru1cy wrote:

msduncan wrote:

tru1cy wrote:So when does The Donald start drifting to the center?

Not sure. He is running a completely unconventional campaign that has turned everything I thought I knew about politics on it's head. Then again, he's just the manifestation of Republican core voter anger at the Boehner/Rubio/McCain/Romney/Ryan establishment -- so if he keeps up the anger politics he will continue to do well. I think if he's serious about November he's going to have to pivot soon.

Once he pivots, if he pivots, will he be seen by the grassroots as a sellout? While his message now sells with his base that same message alienates everyone else he will need to win the general. Angry white people isn't enough anymore to win the general election

Donald Trump received 70 percent of the primary vote in Buchanan County, Virginia, and 60 percent in Martin County, Kentucky. He is strongest in Appalachia because the biggest indicator of support for Trump, according to a survey by the RAND Corporation, is agreeing with the statement, "people like me don't have any say."

I live in Trump's America, where working-class whites are dying from despair. They're dying from alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide, trying to take away the pain of a half century's economic and cultural decline. In the foothills of Appalachia, Wilkes County, North Carolina, is second in the nation in income lost this century, where the number of manufacturing jobs decreased from 8,548 in the year 2000 to about 4,000 today, according to Stateline.

On the losing side of automation, globalization and the "rural brain drain" our community was powerless to stop furniture factories from closing down or Wal-Mart from coming in. And after decades of decline folks were too beaten down and disorganized to fight back when pharmaceutical companies flooded the area with OxyContin. As a result, Wilkes had the third highest overdose rate in America in 2007 and busted 50 meth labs in 2013. [Overdose rates dropped 69 percent by 2011 after North Carolina responded to the crisis.]

Now, I walk into the courtroom every week and see the faces of childhood friends in a town where 23 percent of the population lives in poverty and 25 percent never finished high school.

So if there are winners and losers in America, I know the losers. They lost jobs to China and Vietnam. And they're dying younger, caught in an endless cycle of jail, drug charges and applying for disability to pay the child support bill.

They lost their influence, their dignity and their shot at the American Dream, and now they're angry. They're angry at Washington and Wall Street, at big corporations and big government. And they're voting now for Donald Trump.

His supporters realize he's a joke. They do not care. They know he's authoritarian, nationalist, almost un-American, and they love him anyway, because he disrupts a broken political process and beats establishment candidates who've long ignored their interests.

When you're earning $32,000 a year and haven't had a decent vacation in over a decade, it doesn't matter who Trump appoints to the U.N., or if he poisons America's standing in the world, you just want to win again, whoever the victim, whatever the price.

According to the Republican Party, the biggest threat to rural America was Islamic terrorism. According to the Democratic Party it was gun violence. In reality it was prescription drug abuse and neither party noticed until it was too late.

msduncan wrote:
I think he's proven that he can say pretty much anything and still be ok with the people who are supporting him. I have little doubt he can pivot without too much trouble as long as he pivots and doesn't do an about face.

Rip wrote:Way to rain on the parade with reality.

Holman wrote:So the idea is to elect a guy who can do literally nothing to solve these problems, wrecks the economy, ruins our standing in the world, attacks minorities, normalizes racism, and throws a pipe bomb into the real and legitimate work of government, all because it symbolically embarrasses the system? Sounds like a great plan.

Trump won't win the presidency, of course. If he's nominated conservatives will walk out of the Cleveland convention in July and run a third ticket candidate, and there are not enough disaffected white males in Pennsylvania or Ohio to make up for the independent women who would vote for Hillary Clinton in November. But the two parties can no longer afford to ignore Trump's America.

To win again in the Deep South and Appalachia, the Democratic Party must recall the days of Roosevelt's New Deal and Kennedy's New Frontier by putting people to work rebuilding America, and making college free after two years of national service.

Trump's appeal as a strongman reveals the desire in Middle America for public action. His supporters want healthcare, like Social Security and are frustrated by the gridlock on Capitol Hill, so they must return to the days of Eisenhower, standing for conservative principles but also compromising when possible.

Holman wrote:So the idea is to elect a guy who can do literally nothing to solve these problems, wrecks the economy, ruins our standing in the world, attacks minorities, normalizes racism, and throws a pipe bomb into the real and legitimate work of government, all because it symbolically embarrasses the system? Sounds like a great plan.

GreenGoo wrote:

Rip wrote:Way to rain on the parade with reality.

I fail to see how that changes anything at all. Or that anyone here (in general, I can't speak for everyone, every comment) has disagreed that Trump's success is based entirely on disenfranchised Republicans.

This "reality" that you think is raining on the parade is the same reality that we've all been dealing with since it became clear Trump wasn't going away. I fully credit you with recognizing it first, and commenting on it long before most of us realized you were right (there's always a first )

That doesn't change the fact that the majority of Trump supporters are know-nothing yahoos. The critical mass of his supporters are low education physical labourers. Until they decided Trump should be their champion, I had no disrespect for this demographic. It's hard to blame Trump for doing what works. I blame the people that it is working on.

What's even more bizarre is that the GOP has never even claimed to support or care about lower education, lower income people. No one cares about them? No shit. Every time the Reps talk about tax cuts for the rich, or flat tax, or whatever, they are directly stepping on the poor and less educated. Suddenly they are surprised that their party doesn't care about them?

Ho. Lee. Fuck.

Holman wrote:The author's take-away is this:

Trump won't win the presidency, of course. If he's nominated conservatives will walk out of the Cleveland convention in July and run a third ticket candidate, and there are not enough disaffected white males in Pennsylvania or Ohio to make up for the independent women who would vote for Hillary Clinton in November. But the two parties can no longer afford to ignore Trump's America.

To win again in the Deep South and Appalachia, the Democratic Party must recall the days of Roosevelt's New Deal and Kennedy's New Frontier by putting people to work rebuilding America, and making college free after two years of national service.

Trump's appeal as a strongman reveals the desire in Middle America for public action. His supporters want healthcare, like Social Security and are frustrated by the gridlock on Capitol Hill, so they must return to the days of Eisenhower, standing for conservative principles but also compromising when possible.

In other words, Democrats need to act more like idealistic Democrats while Republicans also need to act more like idealistic Democrats. I can agree with that.

Rip wrote:
No nothing yahoo votes count the same as any other vote and it isn't just disenfranchised Republicans. The attitude you take toward them is exactly what they feel they have been getting for years. So when you try to sway them with logic don't be surprised when you get the finger.

GreenGoo wrote:

Rip wrote:
No nothing yahoo votes count the same as any other vote and it isn't just disenfranchised Republicans. The attitude you take toward them is exactly what they feel they have been getting for years. So when you try to sway them with logic don't be surprised when you get the finger.

Ironically, I never had this attitude toward them until they decided to do something about my attitude toward them.

If they don't want to be treated as dumb fucks, they shouldn't support a dumb fuck.

So you're suggesting that they feel they are looked down upon, and then do something so incredibly stupid that people who never looked down upon them start looking down upon them. They think this will help?

Burn the GOP to the ground, I don't give a shit, but don't take the whole country with it. How short sighted and self interested are these trump supporters?

GreenGoo wrote:

Rip wrote:Way to rain on the parade with reality.

I fail to see how that changes anything at all. Or that anyone here (in general, I can't speak for everyone, every comment) has disagreed that Trump's success is based entirely on disenfranchised Republicans.

This "reality" that you think is raining on the parade is the same reality that we've all been dealing with since it became clear Trump wasn't going away. I fully credit you with recognizing it first, and commenting on it long before most of us realized you were right (there's always a first )

That doesn't change the fact that the majority of Trump supporters are know-nothing yahoos. The critical mass of his supporters are low education physical labourers. Until they decided Trump should be their champion, I had no disrespect for this demographic. It's hard to blame Trump for doing what works. I blame the people that it is working on.

What's even more bizarre is that the GOP has never even claimed to support or care about lower education, lower income people. No one cares about them? No shit. Every time the Reps talk about tax cuts for the rich, or flat tax, or whatever, they are directly stepping on the poor and less educated. Suddenly they are surprised that their party doesn't care about them?

Holman wrote:So the idea is to elect a guy who can do literally nothing to solve these problems, wrecks the economy, ruins our standing in the world, attacks minorities, normalizes racism, and throws a pipe bomb into the real and legitimate work of government, all because it symbolically embarrasses the system? Sounds like a great plan.

Rip wrote:No nothing yahoo votes count the same as any other vote and it isn't just disenfranchised Republicans. The attitude you take toward them is exactly what they feel they have been getting for years. So when you try to sway them with logic don't be surprised when you get the finger.

He gets that solid base and then he can tailor his positions to pull in some fringes. Because that base doesn't give a crap about 75% of his positions. You are right about one thing. It is fueled by hate, but not racial hate. It is elitist establishment hate and there is a lot of it.

GreenGoo wrote:So you're suggesting that they feel they are looked down upon, and then do something so incredibly stupid that people who never looked down upon them start looking down upon them. They think this will help?

Grifman wrote:

Holman wrote:So the idea is to elect a guy who can do literally nothing to solve these problems, wrecks the economy, ruins our standing in the world, attacks minorities, normalizes racism, and throws a pipe bomb into the real and legitimate work of government, all because it symbolically embarrasses the system? Sounds like a great plan.

They know the Dems and Repubs aren't doing anything, why not throw the dice. If he's opposed by both parties, which have ignored them, why not? Can it really get any worse for them?

Rip wrote: He gets that solid base and then he can tailor his positions to pull in some fringes. Because that base doesn't give a crap about 75% of his positions. You are right about one thing. It is fueled by hate, but not racial hate. It is elitist establishment hate and there is a lot of it.

D.A.Lewis wrote:

Rip wrote: He gets that solid base and then he can tailor his positions to pull in some fringes. Because that base doesn't give a crap about 75% of his positions. You are right about one thing. It is fueled by hate, but not racial hate. It is elitist establishment hate and there is a lot of it.

The fuel driving the Trump truck is multi hatred. Yep, there is some hatred for the elites, but the main component of this fuel is racial animosity. It this was truly about hatred for the elites why don't they hate multi-millionaire Donald Trump. You could hardly get more elitist/establishment than him.

GreenGoo wrote: Every time the Reps talk about tax cuts for the rich, or flat tax, or whatever, they are directly stepping on the poor and less educated. Suddenly they are surprised that their party doesn't care about them?

Rip wrote:Perhaps they don't see it as burning it down but as putting out the fire that is burning it down?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... rong_track

The battle is over those that think:

we should keep going (Clinton)(Kasich)
take a left (Sanders)
take a right (Cruz)
reverse course (Trump)

D.A.Lewis wrote:The fuel driving the Trump truck is multi hatred. Yep, there is some hatred for the elites, but the main component of this fuel is racial animosity. It this was truly about hatred for the elites why don't they hate multi-millionaire Donald Trump. You could hardly get more elitist/establishment than him.

Rip wrote:They don't see him as Establishment, just like no one sees Cruz that way. Obviously the elitist/establishment doesn't see them as brothers, they are the ones leading the attacks.

D.A.Lewis wrote:

Rip wrote: He gets that solid base and then he can tailor his positions to pull in some fringes. Because that base doesn't give a crap about 75% of his positions. You are right about one thing. It is fueled by hate, but not racial hate. It is elitist establishment hate and there is a lot of it.

The fuel driving the Trump truck is multi hatred. Yep, there is some hatred for the elites, but the main component of this fuel is racial animosity.<snip>

LordMortis wrote:Reverse course to what?

Kraken wrote:

GreenGoo wrote: Every time the Reps talk about tax cuts for the rich, or flat tax, or whatever, they are directly stepping on the poor and less educated. Suddenly they are surprised that their party doesn't care about them?

If Trump's candidacy finally drives a stake through the cold shriveled heart of supply-side economics, it will have achieved a valuable service that real-world experience failed to do, and the R Party will be healthier for it.

Rip wrote:

D.A.Lewis wrote:

Rip wrote: He gets that solid base and then he can tailor his positions to pull in some fringes. Because that base doesn't give a crap about 75% of his positions. You are right about one thing. It is fueled by hate, but not racial hate. It is elitist establishment hate and there is a lot of it.

The fuel driving the Trump truck is multi hatred. Yep, there is some hatred for the elites, but the main component of this fuel is racial animosity. It this was truly about hatred for the elites why don't they hate multi-millionaire Donald Trump. You could hardly get more elitist/establishment than him.

They don't see him as Establishment, just like no one sees Cruz that way. Obviously the elitist/establishment doesn't see them as brothers, they are the ones leading the attacks.

Interestingly I think shutting out both Cruz and Trump for the nomination could lead them to unite which would in fact destroy the party.

Rip wrote:His entire slogan is based in it.

Make America Great Again

It directly implies returning to somewhere we have already been.

Grifman wrote:

Rip wrote:No nothing yahoo votes count the same as any other vote and it isn't just disenfranchised Republicans. The attitude you take toward them is exactly what they feel they have been getting for years. So when you try to sway them with logic don't be surprised when you get the finger.

He gets that solid base and then he can tailor his positions to pull in some fringes. Because that base doesn't give a crap about 75% of his positions. You are right about one thing. It is fueled by hate, but not racial hate. It is elitist establishment hate and there is a lot of it.

Yep, Goo's attitude is exactly what they are railing against. All he's done is just confirmed their belief by his condescending attitude. Just write these people off, they're the ignorant working class.

And I am in shock that I am in agreement with Rip!

msduncan wrote:

D.A.Lewis wrote:

Rip wrote: He gets that solid base and then he can tailor his positions to pull in some fringes. Because that base doesn't give a crap about 75% of his positions. You are right about one thing. It is fueled by hate, but not racial hate. It is elitist establishment hate and there is a lot of it.

The fuel driving the Trump truck is multi hatred. Yep, there is some hatred for the elites, but the main component of this fuel is racial animosity.<snip>

That's pretty much bullshit, and it's the same cheap ass tactic that seems to have come into fad these days to shout down opposing opinions on pet political positions.

Isgrimnur wrote:Where sexism, racism, and the threat of nuclear annihilation are part and parcel of everyday life?

LordMortis wrote:

Rip wrote:His entire slogan is based in it.

Make America Great Again

It directly implies returning to somewhere we have already been.

So does the whole notion of being conservative, Conserving America. Saving what America was. It's a different way of saying the exact same nothing.

So what are returning to? Higher taxes on the wealthy? Industrialism? Racism? Hiding our poverty?

Ideally it would be returning America to a nation that built the best infrastructure in the world and it did it on the metaphorical backs of the wealthy (and sadly, the literal backs of the poor, so they could make a buck)

I've never heard him talk about infrastructure or how it's going to get paid for.

Grifman wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote:Where sexism, racism, and the threat of nuclear annihilation are part and parcel of everyday life?

Methinks those are still with us today. Gamersgate, Ferguson, and the Russians still have nukes. Game, set and match!

msduncan wrote: That's pretty much bullshit, and it's the same cheap ass tactic that seems to have come into fad these days to shout down opposing opinions on pet political positions.

D.A.Lewis wrote:No it's not. Trumps race baiting, isn't imaginary it was seen and recorded. It's something you can see for yourself. You don't even have to be a member of a specific party to spot it because it has been seen by all sides. Calling it a "cheap ass tactic is in itself a tactic to reduce calling out a moral flaw into some kind of political strategy.